Dang youre not helping...just played with new sb lrr and zcomp yesterday and now this?
Rifle Scopes Steiner M7Xi 4-28x56
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Got a call from my dealer today (Germany).
He got a bunch of M7s and has a MSR 2 on hands and asked me, if he should send it to me.
DANG, he should!
I´m looking for a mount with 20 MOA recording angle for a Tikka CTR.
Which one would you guys take?
He got a bunch of M7s and has a MSR 2 on hands and asked me, if he should send it to me.
DANG, he should!
I´m looking for a mount with 20 MOA recording angle for a Tikka CTR.
Which one would you guys take?
Ask them if they can add horus reticle in the mix
Ask them if they can add horus reticle in the mix
They have the tremor 3.
I was wondering when we'd get to see your Hawaiian terrain again. Did you get rid of your K525i? Was curious how the ZCO, Schmidt and K525i all did in your testing. PS - Where'd you get the rubber caps, those look like standard tube caps you might get at an art supply store, that's kind of a cool idea...
Also, looks like JWK and I might get a chance to go shoot things next week and compare the M7Xi to a ZP5 5-25, Ultra Short 3-20 and K318i. I realize the M7Xi is a different animal from the Ultra Shorts but still curious to see how well it does.
Definitely keep us posted on your testing - will be interested to hear how it stacks up.
Nah i still got the k525 too. The only thing that kahles probably offer (preference wise) is stiffer turrets..ive look and compare glasses my eyes told me no need to add k525 vs the zcomp and sb.
Field of view kahles def smaller at same power.so i put her on the side let the 2 tuff dog do the competition. This is just observations..i think sb is little brighter but zcomp offer more contrast..def great glass on both..i like zcomp turrets better than mtc..the feature on turret from zcomp is very nice..
Thos tube caps helps when you got too much rifle inside your safe..when taking out rifle its always the turret that get hit and either you scratch your turrets which very easy to do or scratch other scope or barrels lol.its good when traveling aswell for accidentally dial..i normally take it off same time as bikinis from scopes before shooting
Any 34mm 1 inch high rings will be fine. Or if you want a spuhr get the 4001.
MPA 1.250” 20MOA is what I run. Gives me just about 25.5 mils total adjustment on my 6-6.5s.
Just received mine with MSR2 reticle. Now waiting for my rifle.
Will be mounted on a 6.5 creedmoor.
Will be mounted on a 6.5 creedmoor.
I hear you bjay, I usually buy the scope coats for the safe and travel but the tube caps might be a nice alternative... much cheaper and less cumbersome as well.
I´ve mounted mine on an ERATAC block mount, 13mm (that´s about 1/2") high with 20 MOA, on a Tikka CTR.
The objctive with the cap is about 5mm above the barrel, seems just perfect for me.
The scope itself is my first top-scope, and my first with such a high magnification, so I´m not the one to give a good judgement.
I´m still playing around with it and shot yesterday my first group in all of my life under 10mm.
So for the moment I´m very happy and satisfied.
Speaking about the knobs:
I realized, that the elevation nob is very crisp, but not the windage, you can feel the clicks, but have to concentrate on them.
And the illumination knob is not crisp at all. There´s almost no resistance, but you can see the results.
The objctive with the cap is about 5mm above the barrel, seems just perfect for me.
The scope itself is my first top-scope, and my first with such a high magnification, so I´m not the one to give a good judgement.
I´m still playing around with it and shot yesterday my first group in all of my life under 10mm.
So for the moment I´m very happy and satisfied.
Speaking about the knobs:
I realized, that the elevation nob is very crisp, but not the windage, you can feel the clicks, but have to concentrate on them.
And the illumination knob is not crisp at all. There´s almost no resistance, but you can see the results.
Good info in this thread. I caved and now have one inbound. Looks a decent bit of kit.
I'm wondering the same. My ZP5 is the best scope I've ever owned or handled. I'm really interested how the M7Xi stacks up.
I'll get something up by weeks end comparing the two.
Quick video on the turrets. I don't know how to get the video better resolution. Just did one ZP5 but you get the idea. The ZP5 is much more crisp and audible. The M7xi is still good. Much lighter clicks. Same tension to turn the dials on both. There is no way the M7xi is turning on it's own. You need to try to move it to dial. Have to squeeze slightly more on the M7xi as it's not as gripy as the Minox. No preference really over one to the other. Just different ergos. There is no slop in any of the turrets. The Windage and elevation on the m7xi's feel almost identical. Which is hard to do.
Quick observation. If your trying to use the spuhr mount wedge leveler it won't work. It hits the parallax adjustment knob. Need to use a plumb line to level it.
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Initial impressions are positive. If the weather wasn't so crappy overcast, gloomy, I would get some time behind them this afternoon. Eyebox and FOV are excellent. I am able to focus these down to 32+/- yards if that is appealing to anyone. Parallax is pretty tight. Can get in an out of focus in very slight adjustment. I'll try to see what distance is parallax free tomorrow. I thought I wouldn't like the flip caps as I generally don't like ones that slide over the optic. But these things lay FLAT!
More to come.
More to come.
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Is it parallax free at all times it is in focus?
Not sure what your asking here.
Keen to hear your thoughts once you've had more time comparing the Steiner and Minox?
Focus the image. Is there parallax? Do it at 100, 200, 600, etc. Some scopes have parallax when the image is in focus.
Ok, Gotcha. I will report back.
Just with looking from the house with it this morning. I can see homes, trees, businesses, etc for about 2 miles out. It does have very slight CA on those high contrast areas. More so on higher mag range. Once you get to max mag at 28x the optic loses a little bit of clarity, but seems on par for these kind of optics with huge mag ranges. At 20x it's fantastic! Really bright, clear and we'll defined image. From 4-22 or so I think the M7xi does VERY VERY well and is very close to the brightness of the Minox. The illumination is about the same as Minox. Parallax at close distance it's a little tight or finicky. I like the minox turrets better because if the feel of each .1 mil click. More defined and tactile. The M7xi is actually really nice but just not as audible. But no slop at all. Feels good. I like the TT, USO b series, Minox, elevation turrets slightly better. The Steiners have little lighter sounding but good clicks and overall are very good.
Eye box is better then the Minox. Just slightly. The FOV is awesome on the M7xi. Probably has to do that it goes to 4 instead if 5x. But wow it's a nice large picture. The glass is slightly better IMO on the Minox overall. I can't see any CA no matter how much snow and dark/light contrast I look at on the Minox. Minox colors at higher mag are more true. Parallax adjustment on the Steiner is pretty tight. It does focus very nicely for a very crisp image, but it's a tight window when rolling that dial. The Steiner wins in the length and weight. Up to 20x mag, you may not tell much of a difference in picture quality vs the Minox other then the CA. Both are bright and excellent image. FOV goes to the Steiner. Eye box goes to the Steiner. The Windage turret on the Steiner feels the same as the elevation and I don't know if I've felt that before on any high end optic. There is almost always a worse Windage turret. These are the same.
For me, the Minox elevation turret and it's glass, and the more forgiving parallax are my initial "still like the minox more" but given that I'm very used to the Minox and have a total of zero rounds down range on the Steiners, it's a little early to make the call.
Summarize:
Glass, colors, contrast, CA Minox
Eyebox Steiner
FOV Steiner
Elevation Turret Minox (my preference but the Steiner is really good with no complaints)
Windage Turret Steiner because it's the same as elevation. Minox feels different between the two.
Parallax adjustment Minox
Size Steiner
Illumination Tie
Reticles.. Both are great and completely different
The overall package of the Steiner is no slouch. Not at all. Hope to get to the range this weekend and get some trigger time behind them.
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I cant see any with my eye right now. Will have to get a perfect rest on a good bench to give you an exact answer.
Thanks for taking the time to put this comparison together. It has helped me make up my mind ?
Doug over at Cameraland has one left. Might be a future purchase.
Mine is on the fedex truck and slated to arrive on Monday. Now, if only I had a rifle to mount it to. ?
Mine showed up finally and it seems quite nice. Feel of the turrets feels very M5ish. Glass appears quite good. This is not a TT destroyer but quite good and the reticle is SWEET.
first impressions (please note, I am not an expert. this is the "best" scope I've ever purchased, my last "best" scope were Razor2s)
fit and finish is wonderful. top to bottom.
glass looks amazing, I couldn't find any CA or distortion. clear edge to edge (most of my scanning was from 4x to 10x as the scope isn't mounted)
eyebox feels VERY flexible, as in the best I've ever used on a scope in this mag range.
I get why people like the MSR reticle. it's uncluttered, bu oh the utility....
included flip caps are nice, even if they aren't aadland quality.
niggles:
I prefer locking turrets, probably because that is what I am accustomed to with my ownership of Razor2s & MK5s.
I wish the focus ring was locking.
15mil turrets is weird. isn't mil all about base10 math & quick thinking? (sort of a moot point as 15mil well past 1000m in 6.5C, a distance I won't have many opportunities to shoot past)
overall it looks & feels like a very high quality piece worthy of an excellent rifle (TBD).
fit and finish is wonderful. top to bottom.
glass looks amazing, I couldn't find any CA or distortion. clear edge to edge (most of my scanning was from 4x to 10x as the scope isn't mounted)
eyebox feels VERY flexible, as in the best I've ever used on a scope in this mag range.
I get why people like the MSR reticle. it's uncluttered, bu oh the utility....
included flip caps are nice, even if they aren't aadland quality.
niggles:
I prefer locking turrets, probably because that is what I am accustomed to with my ownership of Razor2s & MK5s.
I wish the focus ring was locking.
15mil turrets is weird. isn't mil all about base10 math & quick thinking? (sort of a moot point as 15mil well past 1000m in 6.5C, a distance I won't have many opportunities to shoot past)
overall it looks & feels like a very high quality piece worthy of an excellent rifle (TBD).
Glad these are starting to get out into the wild. FYI, the way that mils function has nothing to do with the number of mils per turret revolution.
I know there is no correlation. I’m accustomed to 10mil turrets so 12 mil is a full rev +2 and 18 is 1 rev +8. On the Steiner 18 is 1 rev +3. Not a big deal, just sort of odd.
A full rev on a 12mil turret is 12 mils. One full rev on a 15 is 15. Not sure what the + numbers even mean or have to do with it? The spacing is tighter on the more mils you have in the revolution and that's the difference. The M7xi has 15 mil turrets. Not 18.
The two in Coyote Brown with MSR2 that I had on order came in this past Friday. I have had just enough time to pull them out of their boxes, give them both a quick feel of the hand and gather a few short glimpses of different terrain at varying distances through them. I do not have either mounted on a rifle yet so the views I obtained are from doing the best I could by free hand or setting the scope on a bench and awkwardly getting behind it.
The best scope I currently own to put these up against is the Gen2 Razor 4.5-27x56. I also have a Gen 1 Razor, two T5Xi 5-25x56’s, and a P4Xi 4-16x56 that I will be comparing later.
I remember when moving from the Gen 1 Razor EBR-2B to the Gen 2 EBR-2C and feeling damn impressed with everything. I was amazed by the generous eyebox, feel and function of controls and optical performance compared to what I had used previously. It checked all the boxes for my needs.... or so I thought at the time.
Moving from the Gen 2 Razor to the M7Xi as been just as pleasant of an experience if not better. This thing is solid. What I noticed first, like others have noted is the feel of both turrets being identical. They feel and sound exactly the same. This is the first scope I have owned or had hands on where both turrets are identical. While the clicks are not as audible as other examples, they have a rock solid feel to them and to me have the perfect amount of resistance. The sound of the clicks is the last thing I’m concerned about as long as they feel crisp and consistent. There is no slop and the hash marks line up all the way from 0 to 27 mrad.
The parallax knob and mag ring both feel very smooth with a perfect amount of resistance without feeling sticky. The illumination knob has much less defined detents but is not horrible and can still be felt easily. Illumination is the best I’ve seen yet, simple and crisp.
The MSR2 reticle is definitely a work of art. Everything that I need and nothing more. Very useful, uncluttered and has become my favorite just from the short time I’ve spent behind it.
Next, I took them out into the bright Central Texas sunlight and looked at business buildings and vehicles from 3,500-4,200 yards away. Looks promising. This was a crude test as they were not mounted, so consistent eye relief was a small challenge with the magnification cranked up above 20. With that noted, from 4-20 power the image quality, sight picture, and FOV are just brilliant and appear identical between the two scopes. I do notice that above 22x, IQ does fall off but not to the same degree as my Gen 2 Razor. I expect this to improve once it is secured to a rifle and I’m able to hold myself more steadily behind it. I won’t make any judgment on CA just yet, although, there is not much noticeable from the scanning I’ve done so far which raises hope.
Once the mount shows up at the end of the week, I will get it mounted up and hopefully next week I’ll be able to spend a good amount of time behind both for a better comparison. My initial impression is a very good one and makes me much happier that I snagged 2 of them. The M7Xi is definitely in a different league than any scope I’ve ever owned.
The best scope I currently own to put these up against is the Gen2 Razor 4.5-27x56. I also have a Gen 1 Razor, two T5Xi 5-25x56’s, and a P4Xi 4-16x56 that I will be comparing later.
I remember when moving from the Gen 1 Razor EBR-2B to the Gen 2 EBR-2C and feeling damn impressed with everything. I was amazed by the generous eyebox, feel and function of controls and optical performance compared to what I had used previously. It checked all the boxes for my needs.... or so I thought at the time.
Moving from the Gen 2 Razor to the M7Xi as been just as pleasant of an experience if not better. This thing is solid. What I noticed first, like others have noted is the feel of both turrets being identical. They feel and sound exactly the same. This is the first scope I have owned or had hands on where both turrets are identical. While the clicks are not as audible as other examples, they have a rock solid feel to them and to me have the perfect amount of resistance. The sound of the clicks is the last thing I’m concerned about as long as they feel crisp and consistent. There is no slop and the hash marks line up all the way from 0 to 27 mrad.
The parallax knob and mag ring both feel very smooth with a perfect amount of resistance without feeling sticky. The illumination knob has much less defined detents but is not horrible and can still be felt easily. Illumination is the best I’ve seen yet, simple and crisp.
The MSR2 reticle is definitely a work of art. Everything that I need and nothing more. Very useful, uncluttered and has become my favorite just from the short time I’ve spent behind it.
Next, I took them out into the bright Central Texas sunlight and looked at business buildings and vehicles from 3,500-4,200 yards away. Looks promising. This was a crude test as they were not mounted, so consistent eye relief was a small challenge with the magnification cranked up above 20. With that noted, from 4-20 power the image quality, sight picture, and FOV are just brilliant and appear identical between the two scopes. I do notice that above 22x, IQ does fall off but not to the same degree as my Gen 2 Razor. I expect this to improve once it is secured to a rifle and I’m able to hold myself more steadily behind it. I won’t make any judgment on CA just yet, although, there is not much noticeable from the scanning I’ve done so far which raises hope.
Once the mount shows up at the end of the week, I will get it mounted up and hopefully next week I’ll be able to spend a good amount of time behind both for a better comparison. My initial impression is a very good one and makes me much happier that I snagged 2 of them. The M7Xi is definitely in a different league than any scope I’ve ever owned.
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Had a chance to compare the M7 next to a Minox and a NF 7-35 over the weekend at W.A.R.
Overall the glass in all of them is comparable and any perceived differences will just be splitting hairs. Up to 25x, we couldn’t tell a lick of difference between any of them. Beyond 25x, the NF 7-35 pulls ahead of the M7Xi, if just slightly, in terms of edge to edge clarity and resolution.
Where the Steiner really shines is with FOV, eye box, and eye relief. It was notably better than both the ZP5 and 7-35 and was the easiest of the bunch to get behind. Not that the other 2 are bad by any means, just not quite as good as the M7.
For my money, I prefer the lower end magnification and have no reason to go over 28x, much less 35x. So the NF is out as far as I am concerned. And between the Minox and M7, I would honestly just flip a coin or pick whatever reticle you like best because both of them are giving you top-notch performance when it comes to overall value.
Overall the glass in all of them is comparable and any perceived differences will just be splitting hairs. Up to 25x, we couldn’t tell a lick of difference between any of them. Beyond 25x, the NF 7-35 pulls ahead of the M7Xi, if just slightly, in terms of edge to edge clarity and resolution.
Where the Steiner really shines is with FOV, eye box, and eye relief. It was notably better than both the ZP5 and 7-35 and was the easiest of the bunch to get behind. Not that the other 2 are bad by any means, just not quite as good as the M7.
For my money, I prefer the lower end magnification and have no reason to go over 28x, much less 35x. So the NF is out as far as I am concerned. And between the Minox and M7, I would honestly just flip a coin or pick whatever reticle you like best because both of them are giving you top-notch performance when it comes to overall value.
My favorite turrets for design with regard to second rev was Steiner's T5Xi turrets, I loved how the inner sleeve rotated so that when you moved past the first rev the numbers all change so you never have to worry about which rev, it's always accurate to the actual mil value. It's too bad I was so disappointed with the T5Xi glass as I loved just about everything else about it. Maybe now that Steiner has the M7Xi we might see a T7Xi in the near future, and Steiner - please pay attention to the glass and do better with controlling CA.
PM Sent
I found out a con IN MY OPINION.
Like I´ve posted before, I´ve never owned such a high quality and high magnifying scope.
So maybe my thoughts or expectations were a bit naive, you decide.
I wanted an optic for all purposes, long range of course, but for close shots too.
I was aware, that a scope with such a high magnification has a smaller VOW, but thought that this one still lies above the average of the competitors.
Especially in the 4x magnification I thought I might use it (with some cutbacks) for close aiming.
I knew, that the very thin FFP reticle would have been hard, if not at all, be seen on low magnification, but thought, that I could use the center cross illuminated as a kind of red dot.
That hope didn´t work out.
The reticle is extremly thin, I would say you can aim with it around an 8x magnification, but the illumination doesn´t work as advertised.
Even in the highest setting, at 11, it can´t be seen in bright daylight, even not in light twilight or light cloudy conditions, the illumination is not daylight usable.
I´ve changed the battery, didn´t make it better.
FWIW for you, that´s my experience.
You might tell me I´m doing it wrong or that I´m an idiot.
Like I´ve posted before, I´ve never owned such a high quality and high magnifying scope.
So maybe my thoughts or expectations were a bit naive, you decide.
I wanted an optic for all purposes, long range of course, but for close shots too.
I was aware, that a scope with such a high magnification has a smaller VOW, but thought that this one still lies above the average of the competitors.
Especially in the 4x magnification I thought I might use it (with some cutbacks) for close aiming.
I knew, that the very thin FFP reticle would have been hard, if not at all, be seen on low magnification, but thought, that I could use the center cross illuminated as a kind of red dot.
That hope didn´t work out.
The reticle is extremly thin, I would say you can aim with it around an 8x magnification, but the illumination doesn´t work as advertised.
Even in the highest setting, at 11, it can´t be seen in bright daylight, even not in light twilight or light cloudy conditions, the illumination is not daylight usable.
I´ve changed the battery, didn´t make it better.
FWIW for you, that´s my experience.
You might tell me I´m doing it wrong or that I´m an idiot.
You are not an idiot for one, and two, it's a correct observation on the illumination. BUT... I think you have unrealistic expectations of illumination on this. Illumination is never daylight bight unless your using a 1-4/6/8 LPV optic. Even those optics have had trouble with accomplishing this other then a select few.
TT, Minox, S&B, Steiner, USO, NF, Vortex, etc, you name it, are not meant to be or need to have that bright of illumination on these 5-25 range scopes. That bright of illumination is really not needed.
So trade offs come into play with reticles and mag ranges. On a FFP optic that goes from 4-28, there are going to be drawbacks on reticle size on the extreme ends. If your goal was to shoot anything at 4x with a red dot, you picked the wrong style of optic. A 2-10 or 3-15, 4-16 with a SFP reticle would be a better choice.
The illumination on the M7xi is pretty good. Same as the Minox. Better then the TT. My NF and one of my USOs seemed brighter but also had larger reticles.
I get what your complaint is, but it's just the nature of the optics. You would have the same complaint no matter what optic you picked up in these high mag ranges. If you truly need something usable on the low end, the USOs H102 reticle, or Bushnell GH2 reticles are what your after. There are also some others that are thicker, but the main complaints then, are that they cover up too much of the target and have too large of an aiming point. On the FFP optics on low mag for close up hunting, you really need/want a reticle like the G2h with the large visible thick doughnut on low end. That's why those scopes are so popular. But these M7xi's and others alike are a completely different animal. Just trade offs..
TT, Minox, S&B, Steiner, USO, NF, Vortex, etc, you name it, are not meant to be or need to have that bright of illumination on these 5-25 range scopes. That bright of illumination is really not needed.
So trade offs come into play with reticles and mag ranges. On a FFP optic that goes from 4-28, there are going to be drawbacks on reticle size on the extreme ends. If your goal was to shoot anything at 4x with a red dot, you picked the wrong style of optic. A 2-10 or 3-15, 4-16 with a SFP reticle would be a better choice.
The illumination on the M7xi is pretty good. Same as the Minox. Better then the TT. My NF and one of my USOs seemed brighter but also had larger reticles.
I get what your complaint is, but it's just the nature of the optics. You would have the same complaint no matter what optic you picked up in these high mag ranges. If you truly need something usable on the low end, the USOs H102 reticle, or Bushnell GH2 reticles are what your after. There are also some others that are thicker, but the main complaints then, are that they cover up too much of the target and have too large of an aiming point. On the FFP optics on low mag for close up hunting, you really need/want a reticle like the G2h with the large visible thick doughnut on low end. That's why those scopes are so popular. But these M7xi's and others alike are a completely different animal. Just trade offs..
JayJay, I hear what you're saying, would love to find "the one scope to rule them all", but you're going to find pros and cons for most everything. When you're talking about "daylight bright" what are your expectations? Are you thinking RDS or LPVO bright or something that is going to assist in certain situations, if the latter then I think you'll be able to find something that works. Asking a 7x magnification FFP optic to be usable at the bottom mag is asking a lot so I'm not surprised the Steiner M7Xi was a bit disappointing. The Kahles and Minox are very bright compared to other optics, here are a couple screenshots showing how the Kahles compared to the Schmidt (which is not daylight bright in my opinion) but gives you an idea between the two, something else of not is that only the center cross section of the Schmidt MSR2 reticle illuminates and at 3x it is extremely tiny - some shooters like the entire reticle to light up while others don't, personal preference really. As you can see the Kahles is considerable brighter than the Schmidt, these were taking within a minute of each other and during bright daylight conditions but the BBQ in the background is in shadow. I'm not sure how the Steiner compares to Kahles or others, but from early reviews sounds like the illumination might be comparable, but until I see them side by side it would be hard to tell.Thanks for the explanation.
I just like the idea of everything being so much flexible as possible.
So it´s my turn to think about adding a red dot or an offset sight package for CQ.
That's not a bad idea as well. I like the ERA-TAC mounts and rings for this, they make a Doctor optic offset mount (that works with Burris Fastfire RDS's as well) that attaches to the ring top, here's a shot of my old Schmidt Ultra Short 5-20 with a Doctor RDS on it. I have the ERA-TAC QD rings on my Kahles currently instead of the mount and bought the Doctor offset kit again but have not yet used it, but the rings are more flexible than the mount and can be had lower which was what I wanted.
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