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Tango 51 KIlls Armed Assailant

So should us civilians have the same access to those tools if we want it?

If you have the cash you can buy most of it. I don't even have access to the gas and that's the only one off the top of my head that can't be had with a fat enough wallet. I don't have any better access to that crap than you do. I've never been issued a set of NVGs or given the keys to an armored car at the start of my shift. I paid for my own rifle and I haven't even got hard plates. You are acting like what the SWAT team shows up with is standard gear. If you see the SWAT team then something has gone really bad since most departments have a protocol or set of conditions that have to be met before they show up. Which directly supports what one of the other Cops already said, the dirt bags escalate it to that level, not the Cop that initially gets the call.

Since somebody asked why a Department should have a 50, google Granby Colorado bulldozer. Cops didn't start asking for departments to buy a 50 because its cool, some dirtbag created the scenario that made it necessary. A lot of departments didn't have rifles at the patrol level till some guys got hopped up on drugs with automatic weapons and shot up Los Angeles and half the cops that arrived first.
 
Stretching there... don't you think? I said "same access," not what is "available."

What, you want a gov't handout of these items?
Get in line for your gov't cheese and nightvision over there:>)
You want it, buy it.
Hell, I bought my own patrol rifle and precision rifle, I don't have hard armor, don't have gas (unless I eat enough bran or go to the taqueria), don't have NV, except for a pair of bino's my son in law gave me.
So in all reality, since you most likely make significantly more money than I do and you are apparently a class III dealer, YOU have greater access to the aforementioned than I do.
 
Settle down girls. Maybe hes just pointing out that his rifles are actually being trusted by guys who put their life on the line. NOt everyone gets to say that. I'm glad that yall are arguing over a scumbag being killed instead of this girls family grieving over their daughter.

I wouldn't pass judgment either way on this one yet. The wife, or "hostage", claims that she was never in danger of physical harm and that her husband had no weapon of any kind. Claims that she repeatedly told the cops that he had no weapon and that he wouldn't come out because he was afraid that the COPS were going to kill him. The "Daughter's family", as you put it, is grieving for their son in law guy who got shot (who they claim was Schizophrenic and out of meds). The so-called victim (hostage) in this shooting will be testifying against the police.

I'm not saying that the woman's family is telling the truth; they could all be habitual fibbers looking to take advantage of a potential payout or become hero's of da hood. Hell, it wouldn't be the first time someone has spewed forth lies to hang a cop and sue a city. Los Angeles is a menagerie of bottom-feeders. The witness is saying the guy had no weapon and that she told the cops on the phone repeatedly that she was in no danger, the cops are staying quiet. We weren't there.

I definitely wouldn't call an outcome on this one yet.

I also don't think its good business form to brag about your custom built rifle being used in specific situations. Did Remington brag that they had a contract with the FBI, yes they did. Did Remington brag that their gun was used on Vicki Weaver at Ruby Ridge (which was initially spun as a justifiable act).....I don't think so. You never know when the next Lon Horiuchi is going to use the gun that you handcrafted for him. In the future, Just claim "LACSD SWAT only uses the best, and they buy my rifles", and leave it at that.
 
Pretty harsh thread here. No surprise Mike has not posted again!

FWIW, I have a Tac Ops Delta 51 on order, I own an Xray 51, and they are built to an extremely high standard. If you're interested in actually finding out what kind of rifles Mike builds, read this: Tactical Operations Response (UPDATE - 1/22/08).

He builds platforms for hundreds of US and foreign agencies. Would you prefer that those agencies buy the best available equipment? Would you prefer to buy the best available equipment yourself? I would.
 
Some of y'all are so tinfoil hat it's comical. Its actually a little disturbing at the same time that more and more people think that most police actually conduct business this way. I'll say it like I've said before, there ARE bad officers out there but there are far more good officers then bad.
 
Pretty harsh thread here. No surprise Mike has not posted again!

FWIW, I have a Tac Ops Delta 51 on order, I own an Xray 51, and they are built to an extremely high standard. If you're interested in actually finding out what kind of rifles Mike builds, read this: Tactical Operations Response (UPDATE - 1/22/08).

He builds platforms for hundreds of US and foreign agencies. Would you prefer that those agencies buy the best available equipment? Would you prefer to buy the best available equipment yourself? I would.

I do not think that there was any dispute over the quality of Mike's rifles.

Several people, including myself, felt that it was not the best taste to advertise with a case that the public did not have a chance to get comfortable with. Some people blindly believe that anyone shot by the police must be guilty. Other folks, including myself, are more critical and want to see facts. Since the investigation is still ongoing, the jury is still out. If the jury had come in with a "guilty" for the target of this rifle BEFORE the advertisement, that advertisement would have drawn a whole lot less controversy.

But I was glad that Mike chose the timing he preferred because it allowed to broaden the topic to questions like where we are going with an increasingly 'tactical' attitude of policing and how much we should trust the police as an institution. History shows that the executive expands their power as far as they can get away with and this country is no exception.

You may remember the ludicrous and quite frankly unconstitutional statements of some police chiefs during the most recent (not last) gun-grabbing debate. Some of our members here already live under the whim of these local despots. Go for example to Maryland and try to convince the State Police that you have a "good and substantial reason" for a CCW permit. The answer is a politically corrected version of GFY. And what exactly is a "good cop" going to do if his ueber-boss has sold the entire institution to some political agenda? (BTW, law suits have been filed against the MSP's interpretation of the law and fortunately I have only a second residence in MD).

Even if the recent use of Mike's products was a solid case of 'good guy shot bad guy with good rifle', we still have to deal with some big elephants in the room. Maybe a little less blind faith in our politicians and in those who pledge allegiance to THEM would be prudent.
 
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alpine44 said:
Even if the recent use of Mike's products was a solid case of 'good guy shot bad guy with good rifle', we still have to deal with some big elephants in the room.

Not in this thread about Mike's products, "we" don't.
 
Not in this thread about Mike's products, "we" don't.

While I was trying to take exception to this myopic viewpoint, I realized that you are correct.

The entire site is explicitly not concerned with political or constitutional issues.
What matters today is that we can drool over some cool toys now.
Why waste precious bandwidth on all that societal stuff that has nothing to do with how long we can play with these toys?

At least we have learned that those who value final precision - you know what I mean - should talk to Mike.

Good night folks. Sleep well while selfless politicians and their rough, violent employees guard our rights. What could possibly go wrong?
 
First Off, I want to say, this site prohibits attacking departments, LE, or .gov as we host a lot of these agencies and the officers who work for them. So you guys who are trying to make some BS Political Point against them will be banned when I get home tomorrow. We support the departments and officers every bit as much as we support Military here on SH. If someone came on here trying to sell the gun Chris Kyle used to kill 100 Iraqis you'd be mortgaging your houses to get it, so who the hell are you kidding. (And yes I have seen people on this site fall over themselves trying to buy guns with bodies under them)

Mike is a stand up guy and very proud of his work and support for LE. That is the only point being made. He didn't cross any line in making this post, after all it is Sniper's Hide is it Not ?

Next I have worked with the LA Sheriff guys, particularly the Snipers using the Tac Ops rifles. They are stand up guys and above and beyond professional in every way possible. So again for those few attacking them, expect to be gone from this site before the weekend.

I shouldn't have to repeat myself over and over, no attacks against LE, the Military, .Gov, etc...it's all part of the no politics rules of this site. We have dedicated sections to help out these guys, and for them to see members dog piling on their work is crossing a line. I would rather have 3 of them then 30 of you, that is easy. If you don't like the rules here, please leave. it's very simple, have some intestinal fortitude and log out and do not come back. Show self control and stay away if you are against the foundations this site was built on.

I support Mike @ Tac Ops, I have sat across a table with him, as well I know the quality of this work. I also stand behind the LA Sheriffs, my daughter just moved to LA and it's them who are on the front lines to make sure she can go about her day without ever having to worry. When they are doing their job we never see them, we wake up, go to work, and return home to our families without noticing, but that doesn't mean they are not working for us.
 
Pretty harsh thread here. No surprise Mike has not posted again!

Not surprising at all, especially considering he has better ways to spend his time than being a keyboard jockey......along with the fact that I'm hounding him to get my Delta shipped. :cool:
 
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Well what do you expect... coming to a tech forum to brag about a rifle you made that killed somoene by police. Maybe you haven't been watching the news, but this is kind of a sore subject right now (right,wrong or indifferent)

Honestly, its the internet, how do you think people would go?

I agree with the other guy. Its kinda tasteless. You don't see Lockheed or Dynacorp on the news bragging about how a missle just took out a compound where there was significant collateral damage. Let the investigation atleast wrap up so you don't expose yourself to potential for bad press. The tech forums not not really the place for this.
 
keyboard-jockey-south-park.jpg
 
You don't see Lockheed or Dynacorp on the news bragging about how a missle just took out a compound where there was significant collateral damage.
Dude, you sound like an idiot with that comment. Saying DynCorp Intl. has anything to do with the production of missiles is like saying KBR makes an awesome F/A-18. Stop while you're behind.
 
Dude, you sound like an idiot with that comment. Saying DynCorp Intl. has anything to do with the production of missiles is like saying KBR makes an awesome F/A-18. Stop while you're behind.

Point was lost on your bro. In this political climate, with what is on the current news........how could this be concieved as good idea? When some county or city administrator, or local contracting officer starts researching a product and finds this from his google machine, Do you think he will be more or less likely to do business? Its not like there aren't a 100 other smiths/shops who build almost the same exact product. It's just bad business and poor PR. Great product, poor message.
 
Point was lost on your bro. In this political climate, with what is on the current news........how could this be concieved as good idea? When some county or city administrator, or local contracting officer starts researching a product and finds this from his google machine, Do you think he will be more or less likely to do business? Its not like there aren't a 100 other smiths/shops who build almost the same exact product. It's just bad business and poor PR.
No point lost on me, but DynCorp has absolutely nothing to do with missiles. In fact, they don't manufacture a single thing. Don't slander companies with bullshit analogies then try to tap dance your way out of it.
 
No point lost on me, but DynCorp has absolutely nothing to do with missiles. In fact, they don't manufacture a single thing. Don't slander companies with bullshit analogies then try to tap dance your way out of it.

Point is still lost. It doesn't matter if its Walmart, TrippleC, or Jimbob's fishing outlet. And if you want to get technical and nitpick irrelevent points, then you win.
 
Back in the 1800's when LE was trusted to put holes in bad guys or paid cash to civvies for "Dead or Alive" delivery of misfits there was little public outrage ( and no repeat offenders , registered sex offenders, etc.).
Today there are far less shootings with LOTS of outrage from the liberal media and so called fellow shooters & it sucks.

If it was a good shoot kudos to the guy and gear that made it possible.
 
When some county or city administrator, or local contracting officer starts researching a product and finds this from his google machine, Do you think he will be more or less likely to do business?

Because those in the position of handling acquisition contracts for their respective departments are not going to give other LE agencies the benefit of the doubt in these circumstances?

TacOps rifles have documented, proven track records, used by various State and Federal agencies across the nation, and this particular incident is one of them.

Why in any way would the original post be construed as bad business or poor PR by those in the position to submit and approve requisitions for their departments? Inane reasoning at best.
 
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First Off, I want to say, this site prohibits attacking departments, LE, or .gov as we host a lot of these agencies and the officers who work for them. So you guys who are trying to make some BS Political Point against them will be banned when I get home tomorrow. We support the departments and officers every bit as much as we support Military here on SH. If someone came on here trying to sell the gun Chris Kyle used to kill 100 Iraqis you'd be mortgaging your houses to get it, so who the hell are you kidding. (And yes I have seen people on this site fall over themselves trying to buy guns with bodies under them)

Mike is a stand up guy and very proud of his work and support for LE. That is the only point being made. He didn't cross any line in making this post, after all it is Sniper's Hide is it Not ?

Next I have worked with the LA Sheriff guys, particularly the Snipers using the Tac Ops rifles. They are stand up guys and above and beyond professional in every way possible. So again for those few attacking them, expect to be gone from this site before the weekend.

I shouldn't have to repeat myself over and over, no attacks against LE, the Military, .Gov, etc...it's all part of the no politics rules of this site. We have dedicated sections to help out these guys, and for them to see members dog piling on their work is crossing a line. I would rather have 3 of them then 30 of you, that is easy. If you don't like the rules here, please leave. it's very simple, have some intestinal fortitude and log out and do not come back. Show self control and stay away if you are against the foundations this site was built on.

I support Mike @ Tac Ops, I have sat across a table with him, as well I know the quality of this work. I also stand behind the LA Sheriffs, my daughter just moved to LA and it's them who are on the front lines to make sure she can go about her day without ever having to worry. When they are doing their job we never see them, we wake up, go to work, and return home to our families without noticing, but that doesn't mean they are not working for us.

Frank,

This is your business and you decide under which rules you operate. I have violated some of these rules and deserve to be shown the door. Please allow me to raise a few points that may reduce the need for future “calls to order”.

Your site caters to many aspects of precision rifle shooting and attracts military snipers, tactical marksmen, hunters, target shooters, etc. There is commonality established between these groups through equipment and techniques. However, the actual use of this equipment falls under vastly different rules and expectations depending on the group. Target shooters proudly post tiny groups, hunters post photos of harvested game, but I have not seen one picture of a dead human body with a rifle on it and the shooter proudly smiling in the background. Hunting and killing men is a violent, messy business that most people, while they understand it’s necessity, do not like to have brought to their frontal awareness.

Those who crave rifles with bodies under them or dream of –you know what I mean- have not matured to the point where they grasp the sanctity of life. Instead of using this immaturity to normalize “justifiable homicide” we should stress as often as possible that this should be the last resort and even then this act should not been taken lightly or be glorified. Those who have hunted and killed men should remind us more often that this is not some cool game but a massive responsibility that has broken men.

The other problem is that .mil and LE gets lumped in the same category. There is a connection between them through people’s resumes and careers but once you cross from one to the other, the rules of engagement change drastically. The Constitution and the resulting laws require different conditions to be met once you ‘operate’ on US soil. I do not want to argue of who has the higher burden of responsibility but maybe we should differentiate more clearly between these domain. That was the whole point of the ‘militarization of police’ angle.

The third issue is that if we do not allow ourselves to look at the actions of the police critically, then we are asking for trouble down the road. Not being allowed to question the police is the definition of a police state. Is that what we want? (I was born in Germany and may be a bit over-sensitive on that issue).

"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." Can we consciously consent if we do not know what is going on? Most people do not have the privilege and honor to get information directly from those involved. Asking for details, and questioning events/actions does NOT equate to dogpiling on LE, it is a civic duty.

In the “St. Louis riots” thread I posted a link to the fundraiser for Officer Darren Wilson's legal defense. I donated money myself because I am afraid that Officer Wilson might get thrown under the bus for political agenda. So, I am actively supporting a LEO and at the same time I have my doubts about the impartiality of the chief law enforcement officer in this country. Is this stance pro or anti LE? Is it reasonable or even desirable to expect everyone on this site to blindly endorse any LE agency in any corner of the country? Personally, I feel very uneasy if NOBODY criticizes me.

The bottom line of my comments in this thread was that holding ANY government organization/institution to a high standard of transparency and accountability is good business for everybody. It allows the honest people to do honest work without fear of repression from those abusing the system in the shadows. It elevates the image and standing of the entire organization. Citing examples where self-policing of an organization failed is drawing attention to the reality that 'internal reviews' may not be enough to establish transparency and trust. I hope that most LEOs would agree with that.

If any officer felt personally attacked by my comments, I apologize for that. My personal interaction with individual LEOs averages to a positive experience and I tried to indicate that by also mentioning exemplary behavior when I harped about shortfalls.

Thanks for reading this far. You will not see me touch these subjects again under the current rules, banned or not.
 
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Frank,

This is your business and you decide under which rules you operate. I have violated some of these rules and deserve to be shown the door. Please allow me to raise a few points that may reduce the need for future “calls to order”.

Your site caters to many aspects of precision rifle shooting and attracts military snipers, tactical marksmen, hunters, target shooters, etc. There is commonality established between these groups through equipment and techniques. However, the actual use of this equipment falls under vastly different rules and expectations depending on the group. Target shooters proudly post tiny groups, hunters post photos of harvested game, but I have not seen one picture of a dead human body with a rifle on it and the shooter proudly smiling in the background. Hunting and killing men is a violent, messy business that most people, while they understand it’s necessity, do not like to have brought to their frontal awareness.

Those who crave rifles with bodies under them or dream of –you know what I mean- have not matured to the point where they grasp the sanctity of life. Instead of using this immaturity to normalize “justifiable homicide” we should stress as often as possible that this should be the last resort and even then this act should not been taken lightly or be glorified. Those who have hunted and killed men should remind us more often that this is not some cool game but a massive responsibility that has broken men.

The other problem is that .mil and LE gets lumped in the same category. There is a connection between them through people’s resumes and careers but once you cross from one to the other, the rules of engagement change drastically. The Constitution and the resulting laws require different conditions to be met once you ‘operate’ on US soil. I do not want to argue of who has the higher burden of responsibility but maybe we should differentiate more clearly between these domain. That was the whole point of the ‘militarization of police’ angle.

The third issue is that if we do not allow ourselves to look at the actions of the police critically, then we are asking for trouble down the road. Not being allowed to question the police is the definition of a police state. Is that what we want? (I was born in Germany and may be a bit over-sensitive on that issue).

"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed..." Can we consciously consent if we do not know what is going on? Most people do not have the privilege and honor to get information directly from those involved. Asking for details, and questioning events/actions does NOT equate to dogpiling on LE, it is a civic duty.

In the “St. Louis riots” thread I posted a link to the fundraiser for Officer Darren Wilson's legal defense. I donated money myself because I am afraid that Officer Wilson might get thrown under the bus for political agenda. So, I am actively supporting a LEO and at the same time I have my doubts about the impartiality of the chief law enforcement officer in this country. Is this stance pro or anti LE? Is it reasonable or even desirable to expect everyone on this site to blindly endorse any LE agency in any corner of the country? Personally, I feel very uneasy if NOBODY criticizes me.

The bottom line of my comments in this thread was that holding ANY government organization/institution to a high standard of transparency and accountability is good business for everybody. It allows the honest people to do honest work without fear of repression from those abusing the system in the shadows. It elevates the image and standing of the entire organization. Citing examples where self-policing of an organization failed is drawing attention to the reality that 'internal reviews' may not be enough to establish transparency and trust. I hope that most LEOs would agree with that.

If any officer felt personally attacked by my comments, I apologize for that. My personal interaction with individual LEOs averages to a positive experience and I tried to indicate that by also mentioning exemplary behavior when I harped about shortfalls.

Thanks for reading this far. You will not see me touch these subjects again under the current rules, banned or not.

Well said.
 
@alpine44 - others who disagree or are conflicted about our zero tolerance policy.

Simple point, this is not the forum to debate the politics or the negative aspects of individual officers or agencies. We have rules, following them is very simple, you either do, or you move on. My rules regarding politics are long standing, this site works as well as it does because of them. You can disagree, but you can't break them. Disagreeing gives you the choice to change the channel, but not change the rules or swing the conversation towards your disagreement thus breaking the rules.

The are of course exceptions to everything, but automatically defaulting to the negative examples serves nobody. There are plenty of places on the internet to rant and rave about government overreach or over zealous officers. You fail to include Soldiers who crossed the line, because it does and has happened. When I drove to TX this month, I was pulled over while going the speed limit. The officer told me in one breathe I was 2MPH over, and later when I asked I was fine. It was a pretext to search the car for drugs because I had CO plates. I didn't come to SH and vent, I didn't post in my own forum about the BS of being stopped for no reason, I made a post on FB. While I am constantly reminded that the rules don't apply to me, I followed the rules because SH is not the venue for it. There is no reason to start a debate about my in inconvenience driving at the expense of my members who are LE Officers who don't act that way. I get it, bullshit as it was, I am not gonna hate on the group because of it.

Our members are made of the very groups you're painting with a broad brush. You're attacking not just the small number of problem officers we have but all of them. Most of you are unable to separate the good from the bad in these debates so it's easier to paint the entire system as corrupt which isolates your follow members. Guys with real knowledge have no interest in taking part in the negativity you create with this thinly veiled political statement. The no politics rule is there for a reason, it keeps us civil, it allows the active duty members as as well as the agency people to visit without fear of some politically appointed leader over them pointing the finger back and taking your words out on them. You don't get it, if you allow them ( your political foes) to paint all of us with a single brush, it's easier to minimize or isolate the place. You give them ammo to shut down our work on the inside because you got all of us labeled on the outside. Plenty of us quietly move within circles we would not be able to roam if the label was so easily attached.

The rules are long standing and clear. You choose to jump in this topic and change the discussion and violate the rules willingly because you feel you know something everyone else doesn't. We get it, bad apples, corruptions exists, but you will not attack my members with your generalizations and paint all with that brush and get away with it. I have been as clear as I could be, and the only reason I make "calls to order " is because you guys, ( and you know who you are ) feel you know better. If you didn't constantly ignore my rules I would not have to made the asshole and enforce them. It sort of works in your favor. In your twisted way, you knowingly break my rules, force me to enforce them then go off and talk shit about what an asshole I am. What a tyrant, A Napoleon complex, etc. meanwhile what is always ignored is the other side of the equation.

This is not the forum for it, don't like the topic, move on. It will fall away and die on the vine. You can add something to the conversation you do like and bury it. You can PM the OP and say, bad form, enough of those I get people asking me to remove stuff every week. But what you won't do is break the rules, and attack a group of our members because of what happened in a single incident. I get it the current climate is not unnoticed, but you're not gonna riot here.

It's really easy, the only thing that makes it hard is you.
 
@alpine44 - others who disagree or are conflicted about our zero tolerance policy.

Simple point, this is not the forum to debate the politics or the negative aspects of individual officers or agencies. We have rules, following them is very simple, you either do, or you move on. My rules regarding politics are long standing, this site works as well as it does because of them. You can disagree, but you can't break them. Disagreeing gives you the choice to change the channel, but not change the rules or swing the conversation towards your disagreement thus breaking the rules.

Your site, your rules.....Im tracking.
 
First, great job TACOps. Your equipment helped save lives. When I scrape enough pennies together, I will come knocking on your door.

Second, great job Low Light. I come here because this site is generally a no nonsense shooting information site and not a site for arguing teenagers.
 
@alpine44 - others who disagree or are conflicted about our zero tolerance policy.

Simple point, this is not the forum to debate the politics or the negative aspects of individual officers or agencies. We have rules, following them is very simple, you either do, or you move on. My rules regarding politics are long standing, this site works as well as it does because of them. You can disagree, but you can't break them. Disagreeing gives you the choice to change the channel, but not change the rules or swing the conversation towards your disagreement thus breaking the rules.

The are of course exceptions to everything, but automatically defaulting to the negative examples serves nobody. There are plenty of places on the internet to rant and rave about government overreach or over zealous officers. You fail to include Soldiers who crossed the line, because it does and has happened. When I drove to TX this month, I was pulled over while going the speed limit. The officer told me in one breathe I was 2MPH over, and later when I asked I was fine. It was a pretext to search the car for drugs because I had CO plates. I didn't come to SH and vent, I didn't post in my own forum about the BS of being stopped for no reason, I made a post on FB. While I am constantly reminded that the rules don't apply to me, I followed the rules because SH is not the venue for it. There is no reason to start a debate about my in inconvenience driving at the expense of my members who are LE Officers who don't act that way. I get it, bullshit as it was, I am not gonna hate on the group because of it.

Our members are made of the very groups you're painting with a broad brush. You're attacking not just the small number of problem officers we have but all of them. Most of you are unable to separate the good from the bad in these debates so it's easier to paint the entire system as corrupt which isolates your follow members. Guys with real knowledge have no interest in taking part in the negativity you create with this thinly veiled political statement. The no politics rule is there for a reason, it keeps us civil, it allows the active duty members as as well as the agency people to visit without fear of some politically appointed leader over them pointing the finger back and taking your words out on them. You don't get it, if you allow them ( your political foes) to paint all of us with a single brush, it's easier to minimize or isolate the place. You give them ammo to shut down our work on the inside because you got all of us labeled on the outside. Plenty of us quietly move within circles we would not be able to roam if the label was so easily attached.

The rules are long standing and clear. You choose to jump in this topic and change the discussion and violate the rules willingly because you feel you know something everyone else doesn't. We get it, bad apples, corruptions exists, but you will not attack my members with your generalizations and paint all with that brush and get away with it. I have been as clear as I could be, and the only reason I make "calls to order " is because you guys, ( and you know who you are ) feel you know better. If you didn't constantly ignore my rules I would not have to made the asshole and enforce them. It sort of works in your favor. In your twisted way, you knowingly break my rules, force me to enforce them then go off and talk shit about what an asshole I am. What a tyrant, A Napoleon complex, etc. meanwhile what is always ignored is the other side of the equation.

This is not the forum for it, don't like the topic, move on. It will fall away and die on the vine. You can add something to the conversation you do like and bury it. You can PM the OP and say, bad form, enough of those I get people asking me to remove stuff every week. But what you won't do is break the rules, and attack a group of our members because of what happened in a single incident. I get it the current climate is not unnoticed, but you're not gonna riot here.

It's really easy, the only thing that makes it hard is you.

Frank,

Thank you very much for your reply and clarifications. Especially the third paragraph changes the whole picture for those who are not on the inside. This should be weaved into the rules of conduct and put in a prominent place. (BTW, where are the current house rules?). My hope is that once people understand the “why”, there may be less desire to diddle around with the "how".

Let me once again state that I am not on an anti-LE witch hunt and reinforce this by holding a very positive experience against what you experienced in TX.

I was recently pulled over for having my head buried in the navigation system while crossing an intersection. The officer asked me (fatherly) what that stunt was for and I answered (politely) that I was desperately trying to deal with a detour that ended in the middle of nowhere. He reminded me that the detour was necessary because of a nasty, fiery accident and that I should not try to cause something similar - and then gave me directions to continue my journey. That was policing at its finest. Point made, future behavior changed, mission accomplished without antagonization. (I understand that this is not going to work in every neighborhood and with every segment of the population).

I respect your decision that we should accept certain shortfalls for the reasons you stated and not bicker about it. How do we deal with posts/comments that are really off the chart? I engaged in the thread when sentiments like “I want every scumbag shot” appeared. Sorry, that is not our definition of due process.

The extremists who brought forward these ‘solutions’ then took cover behind the assumption that the story mentioned was OK. I apologize for hastily firing some missiles in the general direction and causing collateral damage among friendlies. My intent was to point out that it is bad enough already and we should not make it worse. I guess, I have to ignore those who really want to go off the deep end - at least here on SH.
 
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Every single gun forum that operates in a media and politics infested environment goes to shit eventually and it just pisses off the serious shooters. Especially Mil and LE that cant be involved in those sort of discussions but are often the target.

this site being "snipers hide" a bloke should be able to post about his kit being used by SNIPERS in their work without a barrage from feel good types. there are plenty of shooting forums that carry on like that , Snipers Hide is the best because it doesn't.

so if you find a post about Snipers doing their work in bad taste or politically incorrect maybe you belong somewhere else.
 
First, great job TACOps. Your equipment helped save lives. When I scrape enough pennies together, I will come knocking on your door.

Second, great job Low Light. I come here because this site is generally a no nonsense shooting information site and not a site for arguing teenagers.

Could you please hold the oil while we are trying to get this flare-up under control.
 
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I do not post here very often and like myself there are a lot of LE guys on here assigned to teams that do the same but I have to chime in on this one. Desert Dog you are extremely uneducated on this incident and clearly have no clue what unfolded during this incident and I'll leave it at that. Also, No, I will not educate you on it so do not ask. Sounds like you get your solid information from the media. Mike, I appreciate the posts and its forums like snipershide that allow agencies/teams from all over exchange information. If it wasn't for the hide I wouldn't have known that Tac-Ops existed along with other fine builders (Terry Cross as I use one of his builds as well.) There are a few teams on the east coast including mine that are taking delivery of Mike's rifles (Suppressed Tango's.) Its a reassuring feeling when you have a delivery of rifles coming from a specific builder, then see the builders rifles put to work and function as it should. Lowlight nailed it on the head with his posts and the LE guys appreciate that support Frank.
 
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Not surprising at all, especially considering he has better ways to spend his time than being a keyboard jockey......along with the fact that I'm hounding him to get my Delta shipped. :cool:
And justifiably so. Isn't yours the one that's on a custom-painted Sentinel stock? Because if so, then damn. I know envy is a sin, but call me a sinner! As soon as I saw the photos of that thing, I knew what I wanted my next rifle to look like.

-David
 
Every single gun forum that operates in a media and politics infested environment goes to shit eventually and it just pisses off the serious shooters. Especially Mil and LE that cant be involved in those sort of discussions but are often the target.

this site being "snipers hide" a bloke should be able to post about his kit being used by SNIPERS in their work without a barrage from feel good types. there are plenty of shooting forums that carry on like that , Snipers Hide is the best because it doesn't.

so if you find a post about Snipers doing their work in bad taste or politically incorrect maybe you belong somewhere else.

There is no such thing as a LE sniper.... Just saying.
 
News for today…

Los Angeles County Sheriff’s Department Special Enforcement Bureau Special Weapons Team Shot and killed an armed assailant today with a Suppressed Tango 51. Here is some details of the SWAT CALL OUT…

Barricade Situation Ends When SWAT Team Shoots, Kills Man in Bellflower; Hostage Rescued | KTLA


Mike
Tac Ops

Well shit! I wish Stockton police had a tango with someone who knew how to use it. That's good news Mike, bad guys -1, check.

see how bad this stuff can go…
Stockton bank robbery hostage killed by police gunfire, officials say - LA Times
 

That's a horrible story!!! I guess the training of old that dictated: if you can't make the shot, DON'T TAKE IT, isn't taught today. She was hit TEN times?!?!?!?! The police fired, collectively between the 33 officers, over 600 rounds, and the suspect wasn't hit even once. WOW. Your comment about someone knowing how to use it is spot on. So sad for her family.