Tell me about Remington 700 action

[MoBoost]

So I just got another Kreiger 1:8 6mm barrel.

I already have quite a few Savages done (6mmBR, 6SLR, 243win, 308win, 6.5x47 etc etc) - so I'm feeling kind of bored.

I've never owned a Remington 700, and never really gave it a fair try.

I know Remington will be more costly to build - but is it worth it?
What am I missing out by not building on Remington 700 action?
Does it really just boil down to stock selection - or will I see accuracy improvement?

 

[my human host]

It's doubtful that you will see an accuracy gain. In my experience, the difference between a custom Remmy and a custom Savage will come down to the quality of the barrels.

I just prefer the feel of the Remington. They're suprisingly reliable when properly built and maintained.

If you just can't leave your barrel wrenches alone, stick with the Savages. If you want to build a rifle, shoot the piss out of it till the barrel shits the bed, then have another fitted and start over, the Remmy is a solid option.

 

[6.5BR]

"When Properly BUILT" is key.

Out the box, quality control has been 50/50 in my experience, broken bolt handle, bad crowns, poor finishing, poor accuracy, those were the bad ones...about half.

If good, they are good, but I think other mfg. are better in design and overall quality control. Hurt once, go custom, and you will never regret it, it is an investment.

If on a budget, there are many options - I would not overlook Howa, Weatherby Vanguard, or Tikka. Often shoot great out the box, never hear of problems. Good actions to build on as well. Owned MANY Rems....and they are not my first choice. If smithed well, they usually work fine.

 

[hlee]

"When Properly BUILT" is key.

Out the box, quality control has been 50/50 in my experience, broken bolt handle, bad crowns, poor finishing, poor accuracy, those were the bad ones...about half.

If good, they are good, but I think other mfg. are better in design and overall quality control. Hurt once, go custom, and you will never regret it, it is an investment.

If on a budget, there are many options - I would not overlook Howa, Weatherby Vanguard, or Tikka. Often shoot great out the box, never hear of problems. Good actions to build on as well. Owned MANY Rems....and they are not my first choice. If smithed well, they usually work fine.

The OP is discussing having a custom rifle built. Should he stay with Savage or build on a Remington action? The build quality of a factory built rifle(which I have never found to be insufficient for a hunting rifle) has nothing to do with the question at hand. "Intrinsic accuracy," if there is such a thing, will come down to the barrel and not the action. You may find some stocks are more comfortable/stable/adjustable/etc and allow you to wring the most out of the potential of the rifle. If the stock that works best for you is not found inletted for a particular action then going with another action may be best (then again, it may be as easy as asking the stock maker to inlet the stock for your action). Remington will have more options, however, savage actions are easier for barrel replacement. Savages have a floating bolt head that "may" help with cartridge alignment in the barrel. If the actions are properly trued and the stock options are a wash then I would go with the name you want to see on the side of the rifle.

 

[MoBoost]

I don't have a budget on this build, however I am not going to throw money in the wind either.

From "action" point of view, "out of the box" Savage is light years ahead of Remington: faster lock time, floating bolt head, better extractor, adjustable firing pin, removable bolt, etc etc ...

The question is - after spending the money on the Remington action to have trued and blued, speed-lock, trigger, bolt handle etc - am I going to end up with just a superior Remington action? or action that is superior to Savage?

Or do I just need to look into aftemarket actions all together?

 

[DropinLead]

Savage target action is about 1/2 what a re my is after you bring it up to snuff. Figure 1000 to 1200 to get a re my "corrected". At that point just but a deviant or what not. I am unclear why one would do that with so many better options at the same price point unless one jut wants one or is duplicating an m40a3 or something, that is quite fine.

Savage target action is about 500 and will run rings around the remmy. Smiths LOVE the remmys for a good reason, it keeps them in business.

The answer to your question is it will not be better than a savage target action it will just be a REALLY really good remmy. Not sure it is worse either though. Worked up remmy will definitely will get the job done.

Maybe useful, maybe not, savage is listed there -> Custom Actions

 

[KPK]

Get a Stiller Tac...

 

[RHunter]

Get a Stiller Tac...

A stiller Tac is everything a Remmy 700 wished it was without all the work.

 

[LeoC8541/2112]

All the mentioned actions can be trued and turned into good shooters and everyone has their favorites but it is hard to argue with the facts. The majority of all tactical bolt guns are Rem 700 for a reason and that is because they have been tested and proven thru the years in competition and real world combat situations by LE/Military. If a M40 thru M40A5 and M24 could talk they would ask if you slept good at night while they were on the wall because the wall was never guarded by, Savage, Tikka, Howa or Weatherby. Stiller is one of my Favorite actions to build off of and well worth the money, it just takes all the work out for the Gunsmith compared to truing up any brand of action but the end result is the same, difference is the Name. The cost is about the same once you buy an action and bolt knob and true /blueprint it up. Unfortunately for Savage, Howa, Tikka etc building one of these up is like building a Pinto into a show car, once its finished (IT'S STILL A PINTO)! and no body wants it. I'm not against any of the other actions, I own guns in all these brands and like them all and like I said earlier they can all be turned into good shooters without a doubt, it will sell better as a Rem. Your only cost difference will be in the cost of the action and there's not much between a Savage and Rem, used Rem 700's are in the pawn shops and gun stores across the country for 350.00 all day. Your OP reads that you already have a lot of guns built on Savage actions and are getting bored and never owned a Remington. Sounds to me you already made up your mind to cross those railroad tracks and build a Remington cause your curios and obviously the Savage rifles that you have haven't stopped that Remington itch that you have. As it was written earlier all actions and builds depend on the smith. The three lug bolts can be argued till the cows come home and so can any advice here or product. If it were about how many lugs a rifle has then every old Weatherby should be out there winning rifle matches and guarding the wall, OH! that's right you never see them at the matches or on the wall, sorry that was a bad example, Oh how about the Rem 742 with a lot of lugs, crap another bad example, wait here's one the Browning Lever gun, never mind, the list goes on and on. Its not just the one thing that makes a rifle accurate its the combination of it all and if you don't have a budget then spend the money for good components and build it right and put good ammo in it. Even if you buy all the good components and have it "Smithed Right" then chamber it with a SAAMI spec reamer and load it with Rem Core Lock Deadliest Mushrooms in the woods your backing up. Ask your smith to cut your chamber tight with min head space and tighter then Saami spec neck and short bullet jump, you have a good barrel already, buy you a good stock, glass bed it right and keep your torque on your action screws even, cut a good crown, Which many will come out of the wood works to argue this one, nice trigger job, trued action, good scope, hand loaded ammo, it will work out better then you expect.

 

[thrusty]

Give the Remington 700 action a try. You won't be disappointed if you choose a good smith to do the work for you. True it up, put on a good barrel and it will shoot!
Actions are only as good as the barrels that are threaded onto them.

 

[RHunter]

Why a Stiller Tac?

A stiller tac is a rem700 clone, difference being the shooter end has a full radius rather than flattened one like the Remington, other than that, it is basically a Remington by design. When you get a Stiller you are getting all the machining done as well as a bolt that has an M16 extractor rather than the snap in extractor in the Remington bolt. Everything has been squared, tuned, and the smith basically has to do nothing other than put the barrel and trigger on it. By the time you pay $400 for a Remington action you will spend another $400 getting it right. When you see the quality difference between the stiller and the Remington, you will understand the value of spending an extra $150 for the Stiller. The bolts are made by PTG, have removable knobs so you can put whatever knob you want on it... In the long run the Stiller is a better option. For all intents and purposes, you are still getting a Remington design and the tried and true benefits of that design.

 

[Joseph Floerke]

Stiller

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

 

[1slow01z71]

Savage target action is about 1/2 what a re my is after you bring it up to snuff. Figure 1000 to 1200 to get a re my "corrected". At that point just but a deviant or what not. I am unclear why one would do that with so many better options at the same price point unless one jut wants one or is duplicating an m40a3 or something, that is quite fine.

Savage target action is about 500 and will run rings around the remmy. Smiths LOVE the remmys for a good reason, it keeps them in business.

The answer to your question is it will not be better than a savage target action it will just be a REALLY really good remmy. Not sure it is worse either though. Worked up remmy will definitely will get the job done.

Maybe useful, maybe not, savage is listed there -> Custom Actions

Id really like to build a 6.5 SAUM, this may be the best route for me to go. Havent been able to find where its available to order with the magnum bolt face though.

 

[MoBoost]

The majority of all tactical bolt guns are Rem 700 for a reason and that is because they have been tested and proven thru the years in competition and real world combat situations by LE/Military.

Unfortunately the reason 700 was chosen because it was the cheapest on the block. M40 was adopted only 4 years after introduction of 700 - hardly "tried" and "proven".

Remington design and the tried and true benefits of that design.

That's why I posted this thread. What ARE THOSE BENEFITS!!?!?!?

 

[MoBoost]

Id really like to build a 6.5 SAUM, this may be the best route for me to go. Havent been able to find where its available to order with the magnum bolt face though.

I believe PTG makes push-feed Magnum bolt face that you can use with target action.
Or you can buy a WSM donor with control feed and just swap the barrel.

 

[thrusty]

I get all confused when people talk about how much money you sink into a Rem 700 action for it to shoot good...it's not true. In fact, a trued Rem 700 action with the factory bolt configuration will hold its own in many cases at a fraction of the cost as long as YOU do your part.

FACTORY NEW PARTS (JUST THE ACTION AND GA Precision SMITH WORK):
Remington Action at Brownells... $389.00 : REMINGTON 700 RECEIVER | Brownells
Chamber and true the action and bolt and crown muzzle on customers rifle: $350
***[Chamber a rifle previously action-trued by G.A. Precision: $250]***

Add $25 for the Badger lug and $315 for a barrel and you're money....Paint, better trigger, bolt knob, bolt release, barrel threading, muzzle brake and (arguably) PTG bolt are all cosmetic surgery and do not make it shoot better no matter how much multicam you put on it.

The stock is a whole other conversation. lol

To clarify - If GAP has never touched the action before, you're only spending $100 more on the Rem 700....Total spent: $489.00. EASILY half of the price of custom actions, if not more.
You're going to spend the $250 to chamber and install the barrel on the action regardless of the action you have....After it's trued...it's trued...you save $100 on the next rebarrel at GAP.

In the end, you're out the door with a barreled action for potentially ($389 + $350 + $25 + $315) = $1079

Don't get me wrong....I wouldn't turn down a new Templar V2 or Surgeon or Stiller or Badger or AI......I'm just sayin' that you don't have to spend a fortune to have a gun that will take you a lifetime to learn to out shoot it.

It's a whole other story if you feel the need to get all the extras put onto the action....in that case, yes, go custom.

 

[LeoC8541/2112]

The Remington M40 series was selected because it won the contract at the time, plain and simple, it just won. The clip slot on the 40x competition rifle didn't hurt either and someone said Hummmm! Wonder if we had a mount that would fit in this slot would it provide a more stable platform for the optic. Everything out there just about came from a thought. It wasn't selected because it was cheap. If that was the case then the side of the receiver on these tactical rifles I mentioned would read Savage. Nicholas L. Brewer designed the Savage 110 in 1958 in a Long Action then the short action came out in 1959 in 243 and 308 before the 700 action. He admits the Savage was cheap. Savage had a chance to bid on the contract but their purpose was to build a low end CHEAP gun for the working man and knew it couldn't beat the 700 or the 40X. The scope contract obviously went to Unertl who had the contract for the scope mount with the lugs underneath to fit the clip slot on the receiver of the 40x then the 700 actions were clip slotted by the armorers at Quantico to fit the mount. John Unertl was the man who said Hummmmm! Wonder if! Had nothing to do with cheap, Contracts given to the lowest bidder is a old wives tale. One thing that comes into effect is cheapest to maintain over a period of years not cheap quality. Your right, The 700 wasn't tried and proven back in the day but it was the predecessor to the 721/22 and proved itself at the time of the contract when Savage didn't even show up with their pig and lipstick, its still a pig. It sure has proved itself since then. The only Benefit I mentioned was in the name, I believe I said they can ALL be made into good shooters. Wasn't bashing SAVAGE. If you believe that there are no benefits then why bother with the post, build you another Savage and march on. I agree that there are not many benefits but with the exception of the Stiller that was mentioned the rest were all built to be hunting rifles for the working man and they all take a little work to turn into a sure enough tack driver. They are all good for what they were designed for but people just aren't satisfied and have a little "Tim the tool man Taylor" in them and wonder if I did this will it improve that. Curiosity and being bored, that's what started this post in the first place. Build it up and let us know how it shoots. I get customers all the time wondering if I can put this on or that on or what if we did this or that. As long as its safe and they like it then I do it. That's why we have all different types of vehicles. I like GMC trucks and no one can convince me to buy anything else no matter how good it is spun up. Are there better vehicles out there, sure maybe, have they been tested by this group or another, absolutely but I like GMC. The Remington 700 relieved the Win mod 70 on the wall then stood on the wall so you can have a choice and it didn't get mad cause you chose a SAVAGE.

 

[Alpine Gunworks]

After owning custom actions I don't think I can buy another factory rifle. I would suggest saving your money and maybe selling one of your existing guns and get a custom action. You will be glad you did. If you true up a rem 700 you will never be able to get your money back out of it if you decide to sell it and it will almost cost what a custom does. The difference between a trued rem 700 and an action like a Defiance is night and day in my opinion. I just picked up a Defiance from Greg at Southern Precision and I love it! It only took a couple months to get it too. I have a Stiller that I like as well.

 

[TheShooter]

buy a rem action for $400, have it trued for $100 and it will sell for a minimum of $400. Buy a custom action for $1000 and it will sell for $900 because it wasn't purchase from the factory. How will you not get your money back? At worst, you will be out $100. If you are not on minimum wage, that is not a large sum of money, especially when a lot of people on here drop $3k on a scope for a $3k rifle.

Remingtons are popular for one main reason: they are easy to work on. Throw it in a lathe, adjust for center, and it will be trued in about 15 - 30 minutes. Then all you have to do is thread the barrel. When compared to a winchester, this is trivial. (I have never done a savage)

I think the second reason Remingtons are popular is the sheer number of stocks available for the design. This is likely a product of my comment above.

Would I prefer a custom action? Absolutely. Do I feel less manly because I don't have one? not until I have a spare $3k to build a new rifle.

 

[MoBoost]

The Remington M40 series was selected because it won the contract at the time, plain and simple, it just won. The clip slot on the 40x competition rifle didn't hurt either and someone said Hummmm! Wonder if we had a mount that would fit in this slot would it provide a more stable platform for the optic. Everything out there just about came from a thought. It wasn't selected because it was cheap. If that was the case then the side of the receiver on these tactical rifles I mentioned would read Savage. Nicholas L. Brewer designed the Savage 110 in 1958 in a Long Action then the short action came out in 1959 in 243 and 308 before the 700 action. He admits the Savage was cheap. Savage had a chance to bid on the contract but their purpose was to build a low end CHEAP gun for the working man and knew it couldn't beat the 700 or the 40X. The scope contract obviously went to Unertl who had the contract for the scope mount with the lugs underneath to fit the clip slot on the receiver of the 40x then the 700 actions were clip slotted by the armorers at Quantico to fit the mount. John Unertl was the man who said Hummmmm! Wonder if! Had nothing to do with cheap, Contracts given to the lowest bidder is a old wives tale. One thing that comes into effect is cheapest to maintain over a period of years not cheap quality. Your right, The 700 wasn't tried and proven back in the day but it was the predecessor to the 721/22 and proved itself at the time of the contract when Savage didn't even show up with their pig and lipstick, its still a pig.

I stand corrected. I totally didn't know about the 40x origins of M40.

If you believe that there are no benefits then why bother with the post, build you another Savage and march on.

Because I keep hearing that there are benefits - and I feel like maybe I am misinformed (just like I was about M40).
So far the only thing I can account for is the stock selection - and I believe I addressed that in the original post.

After owning custom actions I don't think I can buy another factory rifle. I would suggest saving your money and maybe selling one of your existing guns and get a custom action. You will be glad you did.

Please elaborate.

Remingtons are popular for one main reason: they are easy to work on. ....(I have never done a savage)

If Remingtons are "easy" - Savages are literally effortless.

 

[Clark]

I built (3) rifles in the last year; Rem 700 7mm Rem Mag, Sav 110 .223 , and 98 Mauser 260 Rem.

I shot a deer with the Rem 700 at 477 yards.

Here is what I put into it.

$300 gun show 6-23-2012 May 1963 Rem700 ADL with Hart 7mmRM stainless painted black barrel.
$230 Shilen stainless match #3 taper barrel brownells 9-18-2012
$232 High Tech Specialties [Bansner] stock brownells
$435 L4 VX-III 3.5-10x40mm. Matte, standard duplex, CDS, 24HCF 3-16-2013
$114 bipod 9-13 SLM amazon Oct 5, 2013
$50 Burris low tactical rings brownells
$40 EGW one piece base swfa
$35 Holland recoil lug and pin brownells
$32 Large grind to fit Limbsaver recoil pad brownells
$36 Vero Vellini sling V19023 amazon
$30 rear bag dog-gone-good Holland type 2x3x4" direct
$12 Uncle Mikes 1" swivels amazon
$14 Allen buttstock cheekrest shell holder pouch amazon
$9 glow tape JVCC GLW, Amazon Oct 2, 2013
$10 one part epoxy spray paint ALUMA-HYDE II AEROSOL, O.D. GREEN brownells
sharpie marks on tape for ranges
5/8 round Aluminum for pillars
Pine for butt plug to attach recoil pad
screws for recoil pad
Devcon steel putty for butt plug, pillars, and recoil lug
ammo
bore cleaning
rifle case
7mmRemMag reamer
Lathe bits
-------------------
$1572

 

[MoBoost]

I shot a deer with the Rem 700 at 477 yards.

No disrespect, but I'm not really interested in deer-of-angle accuracy.

 

[bartizzle]

How about woodchuck-of-angle accuracy? There is a thread on the hide with some well documented woodchuck/groundhog kills of mine all within the head/neck out to 480 yards (http://www.snipershide.com/shooting/snipers-hide-hunting-fishing/194199-strictly-chuckin.html). Out of 20 critters/shots fired, 17 have been in the head/neck, 1 in the lower chest and 2 got away. That's a hell of a record for field conditions and most of that credit is to my rigs. I frequently shoot in long range precision matches too (out to 1300 yards), as my skills have been honed, I have been able to test the capability of my rigs.

All of my precision rigs are M700s or a M700 clone (GAP Templar V2 / Defiance Deviant based), all capable of .5MOA or better, my GAP consistently posts groups in the .2s and proof of this can be found in the 6.5CM load data thread.

A lot of us like the M700s because we have used them for years, they feel natural to us, they have a very good reputation, all gunsmiths will work on them, they've been essentially unchanged for decades and thus proven themselves.

The M700s are more difficult to work on for the common garage builder, they require more than just a vice, wrench, go/no go gauges, and a set of punches compared to a Savage. There is no tighten the barrel nut option when it spaces correctly, and for this reason the majority of us use well-known smiths. I can't say enough good things about the folks at both GA Precision and Short Action Customs, I've personally exchanged emails or been on the phone with both George and Mark, their customer service and work is spectacular.

A lot of us don't particularly care about the ergonomics of the Savage actions, I can't stand the safety location, and I can't stand their factory magazines (granted I use all AICS mags in my M700 rigs, this may not be fair to compare), I'm not a fan of the split accu-trigger (granted I use aftermarket in my M700s again), it bothers me with all the moving or non-stationary parts inside the bolt head mechanism (just seems more complex). I've had issue with certain bullets on the feed ramps of my 204 Ruger model 10 predator but the gun shoots under .5moa again. I have an Savage Axis 243 that will shoot lights out as well.

I guess what I am trying to say is that both styles are very good, or can be built to be excellent shooters. If you are just wanting a little spicy in your life, switch it up and give it a go, you can't go wrong either way.

BUT if you are like me, you might find it annoying to have multiple ergonomic platforms. I like each rifle that I pick up to feel natural to me. I like the safeties to be in the same position, I like the bolt operation to feel the same etc. I like the fact that I have spare stocks that will fit the M700, I like I have spare bases, sharing my AICS mags (again, this may be possible with Savage).

It just seems if I'd take up a new precision rig in the Savage platform that I would have a new set of tools, cleaning accessories that I may have to purchase. I think of it as changing from an AR15 to a AR308 platform or AR10 to AR308 style migration, maybe not but I'm sure you get what I am saying.

Handle a few M700s, if they feel comfortable, give it a go. I like my Savages as hunting rigs.

No disrespect, but I'm not really interested in deer-of-angle accuracy.

 

[smokebomb]

The Remington 700 is the chevy 350 of rifle actions. Decent performance with good track record and thousands of upgrade possibilities.

Are there better engines than a 350? Yep.

Understand in the mid-60s, winchester had just "down-graded" it's model 70 to cheaper manufacturing processes. The Savage action at the time lacked attention to detail and was marketed as the low-end entry level hunter. Remington was in the right place at the right time, and had a strong arms manufacturing history with the US Govt preceding. There is certainly nothing magical about the design of the remington 700. It works and is popular, and there are more features available for it than any other bolt rifle in history...even including Mauser.

Unfortunately for other companies, since the market is flooded with the 700 features, it makes manufacture of aftermarket components for other action designs expensive. As such, many gunsmiths only work on Remington 700s. Nothing "wrong" with the 700, and good for them.

Personally, I like the "user" customization allowed by the savage. If any one component of the bolt fails, one can easily replace it with an allen wrench and a simple punch. The bolt cock isn't as smooth, until you polish the cam slot. The safety is in a dumb spot, but is the same ambidextrously.

They both offer quality. And both will continue to be used for another 50 years.

 

[Graham]

I know Remington will be more costly to build - but is it worth it?

It depends. With a Remington action YOU are the quality control. Get a good one and less will need to be done to it.

I am not a fan of the E series actions. I have seen warped ones, and holes drilled off center. Get an older 700 action and, depending on what you want to use if for, you may not have to put money into it.

 

[6.5BR]

When you have a bolt handle fall off - like I did, you get ZERO Accuracy.

Custom is a hedge against the 50/50 QC you get from Rem, if one wants to dump $$$ into a Rem, that's their choice, you still have a Rem. Funny I never hear of handles falling off, or half the crap QC that comes with Rems, with many many other brands. If a Rem was the end all, there would be no need or market for aftermarket parts.

A Trued Rem is still a Rem, a custom Clone is a product built right from the start, and resell value is per a custom. Per my above post, PROPERLY Smithed, a Rem can work, but I will never trust their bolts.

Add up the total cost of Rem action, smith work, and one piece bolt, and compare to a custom action......I would rather have a Howa or Wby Vanguard, or Tikka if going factory. Everyone has their opinion, mine based on a lot of experience, with Rems and many other brands, as well as customs.

The OP is discussing having a custom rifle built. Should he stay with Savage or build on a Remington action? The build quality of a factory built rifle(which I have never found to be insufficient for a hunting rifle) has nothing to do with the question at hand. "Intrinsic accuracy," if there is such a thing, will come down to the barrel and not the action. You may find some stocks are more comfortable/stable/adjustable/etc and allow you to wring the most out of the potential of the rifle. If the stock that works best for you is not found inletted for a particular action then going with another action may be best (then again, it may be as easy as asking the stock maker to inlet the stock for your action). Remington will have more options, however, savage actions are easier for barrel replacement. Savages have a floating bolt head that "may" help with cartridge alignment in the barrel. If the actions are properly trued and the stock options are a wash then I would go with the name you want to see on the side of the rifle.

 

[MoBoost]

So you are saying that Remington is 350 SBC, and Savage is LSx?

Yes you can build a quick SBC but you can always do it cheaper and better with LSx; unless you buy aftermarket EVERYTHING for the SBC?

 

[Andy27AL]

A portion of the "problems" you hear about when it comes to 700s comes from the sheer volume of these actions out there. Not to say they don't have their problems as I know they do, but more actions means more potential problems that you will hear about. Savage or Winchester may or may not have the same PROPORTION of sub-par quality actions out there but since there are less you would hear about it less, therefore giving the illusion of better quality.

This is not a proven fact just a possible part of an answer. All manufacturers have problems and it comes down to what one wants. I personally own 700s and sometimes I really want to change my own barrel.. Too bad.

 

[Andy27AL]

Tell me about Remington 700 action

To address your question on price.. A custom 700 action whether it is stiller, defiance, etc. costs a lot of money compared to the 4 or 500 bucks for a Remington, right?

This is true, however, once a rail, action truing, bolt job/handle, etc. are factored in you are very close if not spending more than you would have if you went custom from the beginning.

Whether this justifies spending quite a bit more from the beginning is entirely up to you.

 

[MoBoost]

This is true, however, once a rail, action truing, bolt job/handle, etc. are factored in you are very close if not spending more than you would have if you went custom from the beginning.

Is that the consensus - don't waste money on factory Remington, just step up to a custom and save money and trouble in the long run?

Will it be fair to ask if Precision Savage action anywhere close to aftermarket Remmy clone like Stiller, Suergeon etc?

Or Savage is just as good as it gets for all practical purposes?

 

[Greg Langelius *]

Based on my own limited experience with the SH Ghost Dancer project back in 2002, if I were having a custom built on a Savage action; I would only have it trued if I was swimming in excess cash, while I would make truing the first step of building on a Remington 700 action.

The gentleman who put my original Ghost Dancer together, and has rebarreled it twice since then, basically said truing the Savage (and he was working on four of them at the time) was not mandatory, they were that close to being perfectly true right out of the box. He also thought Savage did a better job with threads than Remington. I believe Savage factory actions are decent enough that when pitted alongside a Remmy, the real difference will be about barrels.
Of course, being the true professional that he is, he then trued the Savages anyway.

Will the box-stock Savage outshoot the Remington 700? Probably; but any rifle manufacturer can put out a redheaded stepchild, and complaints about genuinely, visibly screwed rifles seem to me to be more common with factory Remmies than with factory Savages. If one wants a gun to be straight and true right out of the box, I prefer to stay with Savage.

I own four R700's a .222, a .223, a 25-'06, and a 7Rem Mag, and I have no complaints about any of mine. I own three Savages, a .260, a 7.62x39, and one which has been updated aftermarket; the old Ghost Dancer, now 11 years out of the gate and on its third (.30BR this time around) barrel. I also have Rugers, Mossbergs, and a scattering of pampered service rifles. I use them all, but do my serious comp shooting with the Dancer. This may also be my last year for serious deer hunting; I'm 67, somewhat more than a wee bit battered, and my once young butt is now well beyond it's 'best by date'.

The Savage Competition factory rifles use their custom competition action, I've seen some shoot, and I like them well enough to have one on my wish list for action once my pockets get a wee tad deeper. Mine will be chambered in 6BR, and will have L-W 28" Stainless swap-out barrels chambered for .260, .280, and .308. Yes, I know .280 repeaters use long actions, but this will be a single feed, and any chambered live rounds will respond to having the bolt release tripped and the bolt withdrawn a bit more. A .30-'06 empty will eject without any fuss from a factory Savage short action, and I'm hoping it will do the same with the Savage short custom.

Savage Competition actions list for between $613 and $651, and come complete with barrel nut, adjustable competition weight trigger, recoil lug, and metal trigger guard. They are solid bottom single shots with port side options, and a three bolt bedding system. Action bolts are not provided.

Greg

 

[Andy27AL]

Is that the consensus - don't waste money on factory Remington, just step up to a custom and save money and trouble in the long run?

Will it be fair to ask if Precision Savage action anywhere close to aftermarket Remmy clone like Stiller, Suergeon etc?

Or Savage is just as good as it gets for all practical purposes?

Is savage as good as it gets for all practical purposes?

I would say yes for the most part and I would also say that a savage precision action comes close but at the end of the day, a custom action will simply out perform any factory action. Also, you are guaranteed not to get a lemon out of a custom.

I personally would not look to buy a factory Remington. If you are going the Remington route either go custom OR purchase an already trued action, they sell these online at several stores for around 600ish I believe. That is about what you would end up paying for a factory 700 and a gunsmith to true it. A better deal in my opinion.

 

[Andy27AL]

High budget - custom action

Middle of the road budget - Trued Remington or savage target action

Low - Basic Savage action

All will perform. The choice is yours from there

 

[smokebomb]

I know Remington will be more costly to build - but is it worth it?
No, unless you want a 700

What am I missing out by not building on Remington 700 action?
Rem 700-specific accessories, a safety on the side, a stupid bolt release unless you replace it.

Does it really just boil down to stock selection - or will I see accuracy improvement? You have a larger stock selection, trigger selection, bottom metal selection, base selection... but you'd have that with a 700 clone custom action too. Accuracy improvement? All trued quality actions will shoot as well as the barrel allows, or whatever the next limiting factor becomes.

There will always be occasional (unlikely) factory 700s that shoot in the .2s and .3s...same with every other manufacturer. There will always be companies like Tac ops, making 700s that can win benchrest comps. How much of that accuracy comes from it being a 700 receiver? Once aligned, stress-free and true, the receiver doesn't care.

 

[Brentc]

In my experience 95% of accuracy lies in the quality of the barrel you screw into your action. I've seen some non-trued Rem 700s shoot exceptionally well with a properly fitted premium barrel. However, this doesn't happen much since most guys choose to true their actions to some extent when their factory barrel gets pulled. You really have to ask yourself are you content with .3 accuracy with minimal truing and a premium barrel, or are you trying to push to .25 accuracy that you may or may not get for extra the $200-300 to completely go through a Rem 700? If the answer is that you want the most accurate rifle possible, your peace of mind will only get cured with a custom action.

 

[Greg Langelius *]

The reason I prefer the basic Savage design is the pivoting bolt head. It assures equal lug contact even if the receiver's lug engagement surfaces are less than ideally machined, although this appears not to be a major issue with the Savage receivers. True, the locked bolt face may or may not be perfectly perpendicular to the bore axis, but I see that as less serious an issue then questionable bolt contact.

With the bolt head being removable/replaceable, this allows swapping bolt heads, even to the point of changing bolt face diameters. Try that with your Remmy sometime... PT&G makes very nice Savage replacement bolt heads.

As an all-up new-in-box F Class rifle, the Savage 12 F Class has features I especially like, and all I could wish for would be a broader chambering selection (to include .260 Rem). That shortcoming aside (and I'm pretty sure I could probably get that chambering on request), the rest of the rifle could serve my needs nicely without modification.

The Savage F Class (open version) stock has the forend and buttstock configured with straight bottom surfaces that both appear to be parallel both to each other and to the bore axis. This feature would be one I would want when shooting off bag/rest support, as it would appear to reduce the potential for bore axis deflection during recoil to a minimum. Essentially, this configuration might even permit recoil action to almost simulate the performance of a rail gun.

Currently listing as the complete rifle for $1525, this means the complete rifle can be had, with the Savage performance action, for a cost right there in the same ballpark as one might pay for a different custom action all alone.

Greg

 

[gravityoutdoors]

bolt lift

If speed is a concern, or your gonna do some matches, try the remington. The bolt lift on the Remington is a whole lot smoother than Savage. QUOTE=my human host;2796242]It's doubtful that you will see an accuracy gain. In my experience, the difference between a custom Remmy and a custom Savage will come down to the quality of the barrel.

I just prefer the feel of the Remington. They're suprisingly reliable when properly built and maintained.

If you just can't leave your barrel wrenches alone, stick with the Savages. If you want to build a rifle, shoot the piss out of it till the barrel shits the bed, then have another fitted and start over, the Remmy is a solid option.[/QUOTE]

 

[MoBoost]

Thanks for all the replies.

I pretty much made up my mind - I'll be watching out for a deal on Remington 700 action. The barrel I got is already threaded for Remington so it will be simple chamber and go.

I'm still on the fence about spending all the money on either truing or aftermarket Remington-style action VS Savage Target action - after trigger, bolt, recoil lug, bottom metal we are talking about 2x or 3x the price, with very questionable (at this point) gains.

Please, keep the thread alive if you have more input.

 

[Clark]

I paid $395 at a pawn shop this year for a Rem 700 7mRemMag with a 3x9 Leupold scope.

 

[MoBoost]

View attachment 21868

I paid $395 at a pawn shop this year for a Rem 700 7mRemMag with a 3x9 Leupold scope.

Wonna make $20? Yeah, that would be perfect.

 

[beretta989]

I'd call that a win.

 

[Sierra-one]

Tell me about remington 700 action

All the mentioned actions can be trued and turned into good shooters and everyone has their favorites but it is hard to argue with the facts. The majority of all tactical bolt guns are Rem 700 for a reason and that is because they have been tested and proven thru the years in competition and real world combat situations by LE/Military. If a M40 thru M40A5 and M24 could talk they would ask if you slept good at night while they were on the wall because the wall was never guarded by, Savage, Tikka, Howa or Weatherby. Stiller is one of my Favorite actions to build off of and well worth the money, it just takes all the work out for the Gunsmith compared to truing up any brand of action but the end result is the same, difference is the Name. The cost is about the same once you buy an action and bolt knob and true /blueprint it up. Unfortunately for Savage, Howa, Tikka etc building one of these up is like building a Pinto into a show car, once its finished (IT'S STILL A PINTO)! and no body wants it. I'm not against any of the other actions, I own guns in all these brands and like them all and like I said earlier they can all be turned into good shooters without a doubt, it will sell better as a Rem. Your only cost difference will be in the cost of the action and there's not much between a Savage and Rem, used Rem 700's are in the pawn shops and gun stores across the country for 350.00 all day. Your OP reads that you already have a lot of guns built on Savage actions and are getting bored and never owned a Remington. Sounds to me you already made up your mind to cross those railroad tracks and build a Remington cause your curios and obviously the Savage rifles that you have haven't stopped that Remington itch that you have. As it was written earlier all actions and builds depend on the smith. The three lug bolts can be argued till the cows come home and so can any advice here or product. If it were about how many lugs a rifle has then every old Weatherby should be out there winning rifle matches and guarding the wall, OH! that's right you never see them at the matches or on the wall, sorry that was a bad example, Oh how about the Rem 742 with a lot of lugs, crap another bad example, wait here's one the Browning Lever gun, never mind, the list goes on and on. Its not just the one thing that makes a rifle accurate its the combination of it all and if you don't have a budget then spend the money for good components and build it right and put good ammo in it. Even if you buy all the good components and have it "Smithed Right" then chamber it with a SAAMI spec reamer and load it with Rem Core Lock Deadliest Mushrooms in the woods your backing up. Ask your smith to cut your chamber tight with min head space and tighter then Saami spec neck and short bullet jump, you have a good barrel already, buy you a good stock, glass bed it right and keep your torque on your action screws even, cut a good crown, Which many will come out of the wood works to argue this one, nice trigger job, trued action, good scope, hand loaded ammo, it will work out better then you expect.

Man are you wrong...pure by the fact that you dont need to true a tikka action to build a great shooter
And the fact that the us goverment used an rem 700 at the base for there sniper rifles is because there american made... do not make m the best choice... You need t do a shitload of gunsmithing to make m good

 

[LeoC8541/2112]

Man this post really shook the hornets nest. Isn't it funny. Like they saying goes "even a blind hog finds an acorn every once in a while". There is nothing wrong with your acorn, I like Tikka rifles too. I just don't have any customers bringing them to the shop asking for complete rebuilds. Unfortunately they are like the example that I gave about the Pinto. After several thousands of dollars to build one up and lets say it shoots in the same hole all day long, at the end of the day "its still a Tikka". I had an old Remington 600 Mohawk in 243 that came from a pawn shop that would cut holes at 100 yards with Hornady 95 gr bullets with absolutely no work done to it w/a cheap pawn shop special Tasco pronghorn scope that the owner threw in with the gun and the same with a savage 110 and yes I have a Tikka in a 7mag that will shoot awesome with factory loads, and it is great for hunting and wouldn't take anything for it but neither the Tikka or my Savage or Rem 600 speak for or represent every factory rifle that has left the factory. The Marine Corps is up to the M40A5 6 7 8 9 thousand or something crazy now and it is as easy as this. If your home town has a county fair or festival and there is a 5k run and you have a kid that runs like a deer and you just know he could beat every one in town at the 5k run BUT doesn't enter the race you cant get mad cause your guy didn't even show up. Tikka didn't come to the race. Doesn't matter if they are not American, the military contracts state that if you can have an office here and manufacture your weapons here then you can come and enter your pig in the race. FN did it, (FNH USA) McLean Virginia, Fredericksburg VA, Columbia SC. Hints the name as the saying goes and I think it would be safe to say that they are probably the largest supplier of small arms weapons to the U.S. military. FN played by the rules and entered their pig. As far as needing to do a lot of work to make the Rem 700 shoot, nothing could be furthest from the truth. People just have it done because it doesn't make since not to when you start from a stripped down receiver. Either way every one has their favorites and opinions. The truth is sure there are some good rifles that leave the factory and shoot better than perfect but when a contract gets awarded then there are some requirements that have to be met by the contractor or weapons shop that is following a build procedure because somewhere in a lost private office there are some guys that sit around and draw out a weapon system that has to meet or exceed requirements that were surveyed throughout the land thru actual hands on combat experiences and tests back in the rear with the gear on some range and these guys said ' hey lets improve the system we have now by doing or adding or modifying this or that according to the reports that we received from the field. It just so happens that Remington has been the forerunner for a while. Look if it will make you feel better, Remington didn't win the FBI contract back in early 2002, 3ish time frame, FNH USA and HS Precision did. Doesn't make them the top dogs now but my point is they brought their dog to the fight. Hey the race is about to begin, has anyone seen Tikka, if you do tell them we are about to start the race. WHAT! What did you say, What do you mean they are not coming, OK then! They cant win if they don't show up......... Don't be mad at me, I'm going hunting this morning with my Tikka 7mag.

 

[300sniper]

Man are you wrong...pure by the fact that you dont need to true a tikka action to build a great shooter
And the fact that the us goverment used an rem 700 at the base for there sniper rifles is because there american made... do not make m the best choice... You need t do a shitload of gunsmithing to make m good

A shitload? Really? Care to share your definition of a shitload?

 

[E. Bryant]

A shitload? Really? Care to share your definition of a shitload?

You know as well as I do that the vast majority of people who make such claims couldn't even find the power switch on the average lathe, much less understand what is (or isn't) involved in accurizing a factory action.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

At minimum a Remington action needs to be trued. Many people rebarrel and don't true them and some get fine accuracy but its not worth the chance when you're paying $300 to install a $300 tube. The 700 has a few other weak points too. 1. The extractor will break if you shoot a alot 2. The bolt release is weak and can brake (will if you use it enough) 3. The bolt handle is only brazed on and can pull off.

All of those are easily remedied and many people will never experience a problem. Depending on what you chamber your 6mm barrel in you will probably burn it out before 2 and 3 cause you can issue. It's always a good idea to keep a spare extractor in your range bag. In the event your extractor fails you can be back up and running in a few minutes with minimal tools (small flat head or a pick). Or you can have a M16 or Sako extractor installed or buy a PT&G bolt with them. The bolt release is a weak point and can break but its not super common and you have to be running the bolt pretty hard for a while. Fix is replacement bar for $10 or so or have a side bolt release installed for about $150. The bar is a bit harder to replace at the range as the barreled action and trigger assembly need to be removed but it won't take your rifle out of commission if it does. As far as the bolt handle pulling off most of them are from hot sticky bolt loads and people beating on the handle instead tapping the empty with a cleaning rod while somebody lifts the bolt. If it breaks send it off to be welded for about $100. FWIW a lot of custom actions are two piece and have also had the bolts come off, there was a Stiller recently that pulled off and the poster said it failed I believe, not from removing a hot loaded round.

There is nothing wrong with building on a R700 action but you should know the few weak points and be prepared to deal with them if they arise but all things considered they don't happen a lot.

As far as R700 vs Savage it is vastly superior as far as how it runs. R700 actions feed much better and the worst R700 trigger is more reliable than that sorry excuse called an accutrigger. The Weatherby Vanguard/Howa 1500 action is better than both with its M16 style extractor, one piece bolt, and flat bottom with built in lug but it has almost no aftermarket support. It may be worth looking into though depending on how you want to spec your build because I know Manners and McMillan inlet for them, a few companies make rails, and I think CDI does a bottom metal. Don't worry about a replacement trigger is you get a newer one, the two stage on them is great.

 

[Cobracutter]

Why? When you can buy a Tikka for $500, pull the barrel and throw a premo on.......you have a rifle every bit as accurate and reliable as a custom 700 clone for a fraction of the price.

Yea your stock and dmb options are limited.........Whiskey 3 Chassis solves this.

I have less than $2K into my T3 Sporter .260with WC3 Folder. You could not build a comparable rifle for anything close to that. The only thing I dont like is the Plastic bolt shroud, but that can be replaced.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Many people don't like the wiskey 3's ergonomics so you're back to square one. Manners and McMillan inlet and CDI make a bottom metal unless you want to use the plastic POS they come with. I believe the Vanguard/Howa to be a superior action design over the Tikka.

I have a T3 Lite 25-06 I'd be more than happy to sell you since you seem to love them so much.

 

[Cobracutter]

Many people don't like the wiskey 3's ergonomics so you're back to square one. Manners and McMillan inlet and CDI make a bottom metal unless you want to use the plastic POS they come with. I believe the Vanguard/Howa to be a superior action design over the Tikka.

I have a T3 Lite 25-06 I'd be more than happy to sell you since you seem to love them so much.

Fair enough. Most people use a tradtional Manners/Mcmillian anyway so its still relvent.

My next build is going to be a 300WM, and unfortunatly a WC3 chassis cannot be made to work for Mag and Long action caliburs with AICS.

Looks like a M2013 it is.......

 

[Cobracutter]

dbl tap