I guess I'm trying to follow your logic train from the thread title, "The SIG 716I Tread .308 may be the best AR-308 / AR-10 type battle rifle for the money."
- Thread starter GLD1980
- Start date
Funny you mention that... On my last trip to the range, I had to tighten the handguard back down. Reckon I'll use some blue locktight next time. Glad your opinion comes with direct experience. Tell me 'bout the other things, please (if this is the wrong spot for that convo, feel free to use my thread). Will give me a heads up on what I should look for.
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Do you have some recommendations on where I should be looking. I'm not arguing with you on needing to do more research but for a solid reliable combat rifle I believe I am maybe missing the point. Can you please guide me to where you recommend I study further. I do not have decades of experience in this category so I admittedly could us the lessons. I mean that in the most respectful way possible.
I keep placing my foot in my mouth here and taking the bait. I am in no means trying to offend anyone. I am not trying to turn this into a pissing match. I just feel in the hands of fellow forum members if we had a range day where we were able to share products and experiences many of you would possibly be surprised with this rifle offering from SIG. I should have probably keep it at that. Several of the rifles mentioned are amazing and the point I'm trying to convey is for only $1430+ tax & transfer, I received a rifle that is outstanding and I feel is an amazing value that I would like to share with fellow forum members. Can better be found? Yes, but can better be found for less? I don't believe so. Several of you have compiled years of data so to not offend facts with my feelings I will better watch my phrasing when conveying feelings and facts.
I wouldn't worry to much about what other people think OP. The hate fucking you're receiving is due to people not wanting to acknowledge that there could "possibly" be a better value rifle that offers similar performance to something they've paid hundreds to thousands more for.
I also think that the talk of military contracts is irrelevant as well because all the people who bring up that point won't be using any rifle they own in a combat environment, KAC, LMT, HK and FN owners are notorious for boasting about their weapons battle proven capabilities but their rifles get taken out of the back of their truck and walked over to the firing line at the local shooting range just the same as yours.
i like sig products, and only own sig handguns.
they also make firearms in sufficient quantities to help them keep the unit price reasonable.
no doubt ramping up to make over 70k for the indian army helped out to some extent.
they also make firearms in sufficient quantities to help them keep the unit price reasonable.
no doubt ramping up to make over 70k for the indian army helped out to some extent.
Yeah after I put red loctite on the handguard screws the barrel nut came loose. That was a fun one. IIRC they switched to a different style nut awhile back so you should be good.
I ignored that comment. comedic at best but the reality is that if someone actually believes that I feel sorry for them.
It's his money so he can spend it as he wishes.
What he did when he threw out top tier companies is no different than buying a Ford,Chevy or a Dodge then comparing it to a BMW or a Mercedes which is exactly what the he did.
I know my LWRC REPR doesn't fall in the Best Class for its used as a standard that others try to achieve but fail to. Mine will be used in a combat environment someday when the left steps off the cliff into the abyss and the Patriot Militias assembled....
Why are you so butthurt? Let him enjoy his rifle ffs.
The SIG716I is more like a Cadillac or a Lincoln to your BMW or Mercedes and yes I did compare them, why is that such a problem to say the SIG is possibly the best new up and comer especially for the price. I never said it's the best AR-308/AR-10 to ever be built. Call it how you see it. I'm not the one complaining. I already asked you respectfully for advice yet you choose to keep acting like it's not worth your time to answer but calling me out for the "How dare He's....".
I never insulted your rifle but I obviously insulted your ego. Get over it. Whether we like it or not your rifle, whatever it is, if it an issued combat weapon or an amazing .308 rifle, will be compared from now on with the SIG 716I alongside it.
If we are not comparing then the SIG is simply a great rifle. If you disagree maybe tell me why instead of being appalled.
You never know with selection/adoption sometimes. Considering our track record over the past ten years or so in small arms its pretty much a crap shoot, For example, under no subtest was the 320 a more reliable or more accurate gun than either the Glock or FN submissions. We went with a 7 MOA, HK417 over the MWS and Mk20 prior without even completing phase three of testing based on user feedback 2000 miles away. We went with an odd ball Remington RACS chassis rather than the AI that everybody was using for the 2010 based on the same user feedback. Just look at the Marines and them opting for more vintage 2006 bullshit in their M27 in 2020. Damn guys, the industry has move beyond 8lb base carbines and 4 power optics with shitty eyeboxes. Shit literally gets selected by how well one dominates newbs on COD.
So if we are the best in the planet at evaluating and developing weapon systems and we routinely manage to shit the bed because a couple hand picked examples impressed some guys in Benning, and we can literally disregard millions of dollars in test data, I could not fathom the shit show in the Indian Ministry of Defense.
At the end of the day, it seems like a solid option considering the price and considering that there has not really been any big recalls and or negative range reports posted online, I think that is definitely a good thing for both Sig and the community
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What happened to the original Sig 716? The ones, I got a chance to shoot shot great less than 1 MOA with good Ammo and they were a piston gun.
Sig happened to the original.
Can you still get Pistons,Op Rods, barrels, Bolts or carriers? I don't see components listed on the site? Do 716G2 parts work with the original or the Tread? Who knows? This at the core is the where apprehension with Sig comes from as regardless of how good a weapon may be, there is a chance that it may turn into a club in 18 months. Its the reason why regardless of how good the tread looks, I can see them dropping it like a hot pan as soon as large frame MCX is unfucked, and subbing out spare parts to Indian manufactures for the MOD guns. This is Sig's MO.
Its part the reason that I have no issue dropping an extra couple grand on an LMT or KAC knowing that I can call them up and say, yo dog, I need a bolt for 10 year old weapon, and can have one in the mail that afternoon as long as they are in stock. Thats part of what you are paying for when you pay the premium associated with a weapon system that is actually supported.
I picked up a Sig 320 to mess around with as a range toy but considering sig M17/18 Contract, at this point, every single componets is supported by the aftermarket and if Sig quit making the gun today, I could find every part for it for years to come. My Sig 556, which has been great, LOL...Not a chance. May as well buy a complete swiss arms gun and use the US gun as spare parts.
I have one of the original Sig 716 Patrol rifles. Does about 1 MOA. Only things I have ever needed to replace so far is the firing pin retaining pin and charging handle. (Don't shoot aguila unless you like stuck brass and blown primers). Was able to use a Tread ambi handle if I remember right. I don't think it was a G2. Was able to get those last summer. As for other parts, who knows. Someone did the investigative work on a custom barrel on Sig Talk. Still, what a pain. I'm sure Sig could still rebarrel you if you need it though. I thought maybe the G2 would stick around. But it's Sig, so no surprise. Like Gunner said, Sig happened.
Never again will I buy a Sig weapon.
I'm not butt hurt at all,however I'm calling him on his infomercial 1st post.
After I pointed out his comparisons he kept at.
Big difference, not butt hurt at all.
It's his I don't have a penny in it but the fact of the matter is he's fucked for parts.
This was a nice first post.
@Ravenworks
Why would you think that was me? When have I ever mentioned anything of that nature and why would I say my name is Scott when if you really did your research you would see that seldom when I leave my name it's not Scott. Look at my posts through all of the relevant forums, Ive got the same thread over at ARFCOM and though several also disagree with me none have there panties in a bunch like you. Your actually becoming the laughing stock over there. I use the same name and avatar and I come as you see. The reason I keep the same avatar and handle is so whiny little shits know where to find me. I don't mind being called out. My skin is thick. My DD214 was verified by lowlight for this forum and I'm actually not a member of the forum your referencing but please pass me your handle and I'll go set up an account and represent the SIG 716I some more and call you out.
Not once have you taken the time and intelligently rebutted your point. You keep stacking the bullshit on thick though. If you disagree stop trying to rally your friends to save you and tell me why I'm wrong! I have openly acknowledged what I feel are SIGs shortcomings and I accept that you feel that I'm wrong, especially because my rifle can't get product support in your opinion from the manufacturer and yours can, but not once have you directly said that. Please stop coming at me like a whiny insolent little shit. If you're indeed an adult, please act accordingly and I'll show you some respect.
For the Mods and rest of the forum and @lowlight I apologize for my profanity but these accusations have lasting ramifications and I don't appreciate his remarks. They are lies. I am willing to show proof that I have had nothing but positive correspondence from SIG N.A., and I am not lying. In fact I will also send correspondence to them in an attempt to prove him and Scott wrong. I never said they would send parts I said you must send your rifle in and they will fix or replace but I'll unfuck this mess.
@Ravenworks
You called out the wrong guy. I tell the truth and though I may be annoying and not in a style everyone may appreciate I try my best to help and inform my fellow gun owners and enthusiasts from my perspective and I am honest, and my name is Daniel not Scott, next time get it right if your going to call me out.
@Ravenworks
I'm in buddy. I even hit up Scott and told him about you on the thread.
https://forum.308ar.com/topic/21595-spare-parts-for-the-sig-716i/?tab=comments#comment-337016
So thanks for creating a speed bump but after we clear this negative air you brought over to my thread up see your way out instead of trolling.
I'm in buddy. I even hit up Scott and told him about you on the thread.
https://forum.308ar.com/topic/21595-spare-parts-for-the-sig-716i/?tab=comments#comment-337016
So thanks for creating a speed bump but after we clear this negative air you brought over to my thread up see your way out instead of trolling.
Attachments
Found this digging around sig forum:
So would be fun to get a 308 dpms bolt from somewhere and measure it with calipers vs the 716i bolt.
Oh they do sell the 5.56 carriers here:
www.sigsauer.com
For 200 fucking bucks lol
So would be fun to get a 308 dpms bolt from somewhere and measure it with calipers vs the 716i bolt.
Oh they do sell the 5.56 carriers here:
Bolt Carrier Assembly for SIG M400 Upper Receivers
This is a replacement bolt carrier group for SIG M400 rifles. It is compatible with SIG M400 variants of rifles and upper receivers.
www.sigsauer.com For 200 fucking bucks lol
@rpoL98
What is a shill? Like a used car salesman or bullshitter....
Edited.... I get it now and apologize but there's no BS here. Just a great inexpensive gun.
I never said your name was Scott.
Go re- read the post.
Do you understand the gravity of that post?
Maintenance or anything breaks,box it up ship it back.
What are you missing?
These are tools,nothing more nothing less And they break.
As I said before, I was being nice about it, so fuck you and your speed bump.
If you're happy with it great, but you keep inflating your gun.
Its a rack grade, highly proprietary large frame gasser.
You found all the GREAT videos and posted them in your 1st post.
Then you ask me to explain myself and what I mean by other guns then wrote a dissertation as to why every other gun out there sucked.
See it's shit like this that pisses people off.
Dude,you have 56 fucking post at least learn your environment
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When you come off like a dick people treat you like one.
V/R,
One asshole to another!
I'd apologize for the misunderstanding but clearly your intent is to keep driving on. So look we don't have to get along but this is a relevant thread about a good rifle that you feel is rack grade. So I'm gonna keep trying to articulate my points in a way that hopefully some will get and I will try to not come off as a shill, and hope SIG ponies up some serious support. You can do the same and keep pointing out how my rifle sucks and how I feel other rifles suck, which I never said but hey... It's on me to prove my claims about the SIG not you, but @Ravenworks when you bring up post counts and environments I understand what your getting at but how can I take you seriously or respect you. So in order to keep this thread from being hijacked by our bullshit can we get back to business on the SIG 716I and make sure to tag me if you'd like to continue talking shit.
FYI honesty goes a long way.
I did a quick internet search with your model number in it, the very first thing in the queue was that thread on 308.
I never even logged on, but just to let you know when you go back my screen name is Ravenworks.
It never changes from site to site.
With that why on earth would you go to another site and get a guy banned thinking it was me?
What are you 2 ?
That's the kind of shit arfcom and leftist assholes pull.
Dude, pulling a move like that loses all my respect.
Go clean up the mess you created.
@Ravenworks
I did issue a retraction. I have no problem saying I misunderstood your post and made a mistake. Can you not read! You may not approve of my retraction but your attitude and online demeanor is what bit you in the ass and regardless of this incident we would of ended up here.
I get it, you have a running joke about ar15.com, but you specifically should cease from further shit talking considering your character is below that of which you're referencing. I would of issued a polite apology for your inconvenience but like I said above you deserve none. Your a dick and you continue to run your mouth, and your attitude towards others, and the way you enjoy being perched up talking down to others placed you here.
What we have is the classic two assholes colliding. This is not normally how I operate but your full of shit and very deserving of a 2 man patrol to settle your grievances but thats probably not how prudes such as yourself operate. We could keep this online or you can PM me to further air your grievances.
This is all really funny because the Moderator and a senior member, @98Z5V of forum.308ar.com have also experienced your wrath and have commented to the post you referenced from their forum, and trust me, after all the shit spewing from your mouth in regards to AR15.COM, nobody there gives a shit. Hopefully your buddies here value your shit because your running out of places to shit post your word vomit.
So now that your ego has been stroked some more would you like to come back down to earth and discuss my rack grade SIG?
So now you admit dragging not one but two other sites into this, WOW.
98Z5V = Todd.
Enjoy yourself
98Z5V = Todd.
Enjoy yourself
@Ravenworks
I labeled everything so to not be secretive and I have been honest. Im only guilty of misunderstanding your post and I admitted it. Your guilty of being a pompous asshole and your call outs have recieved attention in other forums. So being the author of the thread at multiple venues, yes I addressed your insolence. Your dragging this on further than it must go but hey, being that you have a reputation for this type of thing no worries.
I labeled everything so to not be secretive and I have been honest. Im only guilty of misunderstanding your post and I admitted it. Your guilty of being a pompous asshole and your call outs have recieved attention in other forums. So being the author of the thread at multiple venues, yes I addressed your insolence. Your dragging this on further than it must go but hey, being that you have a reputation for this type of thing no worries.
SnipersHide
I apologize for this mess. I don't mind conflict and I actually enjoy meeting other assholes but I did not intend to disrupt the learning and sharing environment of the forums. I value and respect All the Forums that have allowed me membership and I do my best to avoid tarnishing my name and become a contributing member. I never said any of the weapons mentioned were shit, and I never insulted anyone for technical talk. As a member, regardless of post counts, we all deserve equal respect until we lose that privilege. I do not believe I did anything to receive the negative attention from a certain poster but hey, shit happened.
I feel I handled multiple complaints for how my first post came off has shilling professionally if you read through the pages but I will however respond and oblige unwarranted responses. Thanks for your time and I hope we can get this train back on the tracks.
Have a great day!
Dan
I apologize for this mess. I don't mind conflict and I actually enjoy meeting other assholes but I did not intend to disrupt the learning and sharing environment of the forums. I value and respect All the Forums that have allowed me membership and I do my best to avoid tarnishing my name and become a contributing member. I never said any of the weapons mentioned were shit, and I never insulted anyone for technical talk. As a member, regardless of post counts, we all deserve equal respect until we lose that privilege. I do not believe I did anything to receive the negative attention from a certain poster but hey, shit happened.
I feel I handled multiple complaints for how my first post came off has shilling professionally if you read through the pages but I will however respond and oblige unwarranted responses. Thanks for your time and I hope we can get this train back on the tracks.
Have a great day!
Dan
just move on dan, it is not a big deal.
if you find out where you can get spare bolts or others parts, sharing that would probably help quite a few people that lurk around and probably never post anything, including somebody on the sigtalk forums that is going to use them at his LEA. from all accounts, unless you buy a lot of guns, even their liason for LEAs doesn't really do much for anyone small. maybe that will change.
/pretty much everyone has been piled on at some point.
//my rifle is the best.
///at what it is designed to do.
if you find out where you can get spare bolts or others parts, sharing that would probably help quite a few people that lurk around and probably never post anything, including somebody on the sigtalk forums that is going to use them at his LEA. from all accounts, unless you buy a lot of guns, even their liason for LEAs doesn't really do much for anyone small. maybe that will change.
/pretty much everyone has been piled on at some point.
//my rifle is the best.
///at what it is designed to do.
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haha don't apologize.
fwiw this place used to be a lot better. A lot of the older crowd doesn't post that much anymore.
also I just talked to sig and according to the customer support muppet the spare parts will be on the website sometime in the future.
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A
@BCP
That is good information to hear in regards to future parts availability from SIG. I too contacted SIG regarding parts but also to discuss the 716I. Hopefully the reply will provide some insight towards the direction of the program. Then again, they may just tell me to FO.
Agreed and thanks to all for the advice.
@BCP
That is good information to hear in regards to future parts availability from SIG. I too contacted SIG regarding parts but also to discuss the 716I. Hopefully the reply will provide some insight towards the direction of the program. Then again, they may just tell me to FO.
Can anyone in the group help me answer the question above from a user at https://forum.308ar.com/topic/21595-spare-parts-for-the-sig-716i/. I tried to source a bolt from a local gun shop in WA to compare with my 716I but they have no .308 AR's, let alone a DPMS style BCG.
@theLBC
Thanks!
I checked out the thread at Sig Talk and commented but it was referring to the original 716 Piston and DPMS cross compatability. It still remains unknown if the 716I shares the similarities. Back to searching.
I recieved a call earlier this week from SIG's Corporate Office. It was a response to an email I sent them regarding the 716I, where I referenced a few threads and requested some information while also making some suggestions. Specifically I asked about Future Parts availability and interchangeability with DPMS/SR-25, Caliber and Barrel/Handguard Modularity and the specific build process and type of materials used for the barrel.
I was informed parts are coming soon. Unfortunately with the Indian Contract and pushing out commercial 716I's, amongst a few other important projects has SIG extremely busy filling back orders for the near future. They simply don't have the time to start making spare parts for commercial sales but they are going to be incorporated soon. Right now the only way to get SIG spare parts is by calling in and requesting a warranty replacement which 9/10 will require you to send in your rifle in order to diagnose and correct the deficiency.
I was also told that due to there being no adopted standard amongst AR-308/ AR-10 type rifles, SIG manufactures thier own proprietary in house parts, which they feel are more than adequate. One point that was repeatedly mentioned when I asked if the 716I's barrel was Cold Hammer Forged(CHF), was that the 716I barrels are DLC, Carbon Steel, button rifled, Nitrided barrels. I'm so confused now and need to go to hip pocket manufacturing 101.
Can someone explain exactly how that affects us has owners because I have no clue. I read button rifling is good for an accurate barrel but I need to read up more and get educated about what are the positive and negative effects. I've also never heard of DLC, is it similar to PVD and is this just a fancier word for their Nitriding process or is this an additional benefit?
I also tried to confirm the possibility of future platform expansion and no comment was made. It was inferred that the success of the 716I globally would be the factor driving possible expansion into different barrel lengths and calibers. With competition inside house from MCX, MPX/NGSW-SPEAR, 320, 365, Legacy Pistols & MIL contracts, theres alot of mouths to feed in house before the 716I gets the attention it needs to effectively become competitive with the Top Houses in the AR-308/ AR-10 market. The SIG rep did agree it wouldn't take much to make a 6.5CM since it was already offered in their piston 716 and tooling exists that can be easily converted but it was also inferred that we aren't quite their yet. Any extras also cost extra. The truth is the 716I is a juvenile platform that has enjoyed a great start but there is still more proving to be done! This is a Marathon not a Sprint.
So for now we must basically be happy with the single serving of excellence we have received knowing access to purchasing spare parts is possibly 6 months to a year out. We must use it for all intensive purposes to Hunt, for Duty or Home Security, Precision and Competition and for Plinking. We must measure its abilities at performing in these roles and report back here so we can determine what upgrades we can possibly get SIG to invest in. At the end of the day, it's apparent the 716I is just another commodity, but at the moment that commodity happens to be the Best AR-308/ AR-10 type rifle for the money in my opinion.
I was informed parts are coming soon. Unfortunately with the Indian Contract and pushing out commercial 716I's, amongst a few other important projects has SIG extremely busy filling back orders for the near future. They simply don't have the time to start making spare parts for commercial sales but they are going to be incorporated soon. Right now the only way to get SIG spare parts is by calling in and requesting a warranty replacement which 9/10 will require you to send in your rifle in order to diagnose and correct the deficiency.
I was also told that due to there being no adopted standard amongst AR-308/ AR-10 type rifles, SIG manufactures thier own proprietary in house parts, which they feel are more than adequate. One point that was repeatedly mentioned when I asked if the 716I's barrel was Cold Hammer Forged(CHF), was that the 716I barrels are DLC, Carbon Steel, button rifled, Nitrided barrels. I'm so confused now and need to go to hip pocket manufacturing 101.
Can someone explain exactly how that affects us has owners because I have no clue. I read button rifling is good for an accurate barrel but I need to read up more and get educated about what are the positive and negative effects. I've also never heard of DLC, is it similar to PVD and is this just a fancier word for their Nitriding process or is this an additional benefit?
I also tried to confirm the possibility of future platform expansion and no comment was made. It was inferred that the success of the 716I globally would be the factor driving possible expansion into different barrel lengths and calibers. With competition inside house from MCX, MPX/NGSW-SPEAR, 320, 365, Legacy Pistols & MIL contracts, theres alot of mouths to feed in house before the 716I gets the attention it needs to effectively become competitive with the Top Houses in the AR-308/ AR-10 market. The SIG rep did agree it wouldn't take much to make a 6.5CM since it was already offered in their piston 716 and tooling exists that can be easily converted but it was also inferred that we aren't quite their yet. Any extras also cost extra. The truth is the 716I is a juvenile platform that has enjoyed a great start but there is still more proving to be done! This is a Marathon not a Sprint.
So for now we must basically be happy with the single serving of excellence we have received knowing access to purchasing spare parts is possibly 6 months to a year out. We must use it for all intensive purposes to Hunt, for Duty or Home Security, Precision and Competition and for Plinking. We must measure its abilities at performing in these roles and report back here so we can determine what upgrades we can possibly get SIG to invest in. At the end of the day, it's apparent the 716I is just another commodity, but at the moment that commodity happens to be the Best AR-308/ AR-10 type rifle for the money in my opinion.
I don't think the best, but are great for the price, as long as the gun runs well.
It's the best 7.62 AR I've seen for $1300. I had a chance to put 200+ rounds through one. It ran everything from M80 to FGMM 308win 175 with not one hiccup. I wish it had two more inches of barrel, but that's just me.
Since the military version is full auto, I bet that's a 4150 barrel since it has to withstand the high heat. With current manufacturing, it's not hard to make accurate barrels out of that.
Budsgunshop.com has the SIG716I for $1399. Get'em while they're priced low.
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...sauer_r716i16btrd_716_tread_762_nato_16_20+1_
https://www.budsgunshop.com/product...sauer_r716i16btrd_716_tread_762_nato_16_20+1_
Another Colt hater. Come on. Be better
