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two is one and one is none so....

B

black_ump

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jul 16, 2007
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erie,pa 16334
#1
i have a pretty good quality surefire m900 clone, at this point i cannot spend 500 bucks on a grip light especially with so many good weapons lights out their and i could just get a kac vert grip and have a decent set up right their, how ever I am fond of the m900 look but not price.

any way i have one of these on the bottom of my usc/ump clone, and after watching both magpul carbine videos i though about getting a surefire m300 scout light clone for the left side of the usc and i ran across these

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150520356696&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

the price ( for a clone ) seems ok and their product video makes the light look really good it also comes with clicky and tap switch caps.

my question is: do you think it would be a good idea to back up the light grip with one of these or a stupid idea ? I have no in the field experience with the rifle out side of shooting ranges and shooting coons at night over the summer, so I would like to rely on every one else and their experience.
 
#3
Re: two is one and one is none so....

IF you are carrying it into a combat situation then there may be some truth to the "two is one, one is none" but for a range gun or even a comp gun its just dead weight, rifle bling or what ever the hell you want to call it.

As far as hunting at night have one light on the rifle and a good head lamp and call it good.
 
#4
Re: two is one and one is none so....

Skip the clones and throw a Streamlight SuperTac or Surefire E1B/E2DL in a Larue offset mount. Carry extra batteries instead of extra lights.
 
#6
Re: two is one and one is none so....

Yeah, I must agree with the sentiments already posted. While "two is one, one is none" is a catchy saying, in reality, it's not a very practical one. It's bad enough to carry one of everything that you need for a mission, doubling up on stuff is just plain ridiculous. Extra batteries? Yes. Extra water? Yes. Hell, I even carried 4 guns most of the time (for some reason we thought it would be a good idea for one of us to have an AK-47. In retrospect, that was probably stupid).

With your options today for quality gear, I'd go with a good light and some spare batteries.
 
#7
Re: two is one and one is none so....

I run a Surefire G2 in a VLTOR mount on my M4.

We had a "Suicidal Subject" run down by the river on the border of my jurisdiction. The subject stated she had a gun and was going to shoot herself. Family confirmed that she did have a gun. That's one of those situations where we couldn't just leave an unstable subject wandering around armed. We a GPS lock on her position when she last called, so we had to patrol to contact. That is about the time my G2 decided to go tits up. It had taken a hit from a sims round in training that had blown the lens out, but the light had worked fine to that point (while I was waiting on a replacement lens from Surefire). After attempting to swap batteries, I just said screw it and pulled the G2Z off my belt and rolled with it.

You don't have to have two light sources mounted to your rifle. However if you do this for real, you BETTER have at least two light sources to draw on.

The end to the story above is we located her. She surrendered the weapon and we were able to escort her to the hospital for a mental health evaluation.
 
#8
Re: two is one and one is none so....

2 is 1 and 1 is none is a good rule to go by if you operate at night all the time. There's a reason operator came up with that quote.
Having 2 of things you might need is stupid until you really need it and your life might depend on it, quick!!!

In your case it doesn't sound like you're an operator or LE so I wouldn't worry about it. Just get a good light like a Surefire and carry extra batteries and a spare bulb if not an LED style light.

Personally, I wouldnt buy ANYTHING clone. You end up buying it again later. Just saying!!!

R.
 
#9
Re: two is one and one is none so....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Personally, I wouldnt buy ANYTHING clone. You end up buying it again later. Just saying!!!</div></div>
To go along with this, I would feel bad for buying a cheap Asian "clone". I think most of the time (ideally anyway), a company's price reflects the cost of R&D, tooling, and probably a myriad of other factors that I know nothing about. After something has been invented, it's very cheap and easy to come in and copy it, then get a bunch of kids in Taiwan to crank them out for $.05 and hour... just sayin'.
 
#10
Re: two is one and one is none so....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't need two lights. carry a flashlight in your back pocket. You are adding weight to the carbine. </div></div>
This is what I thought after watching the magpul video. Why not carry two rifles while you are at it.
 
#11
Re: two is one and one is none so....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: strangedays</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KYS338</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You don't need two lights. carry a flashlight in your back pocket. You are adding weight to the carbine. </div></div>
This is what I thought after watching the magpul video. Why not carry two rifles while you are at it. </div></div>


iam honestly asking... do you feel the magpul vid and classes are junk ? i have no experience so iam just honestly asking is costa all hype ?
 
#12
Re: two is one and one is none so....

Having a backup doesn't mean you need 2 of the exact same thing.

For example, you might every day carry a flash light. When you are running a longarm with a weapon light, your EDC light is your backup. While handling a rifle and a light is not the handiest thing to do, it is better then having no light.

Or similar, your pistol is the backup to your rifle. Not giving you exactly the same capabilities, but providing you a ranged weapon.
 
#13
Re: two is one and one is none so....

Yup listen to these guys, your life doesnt depend on light like some others....mine does...I work in a ruralish area that doesnt have lights like in town and my area is also fairly dangerous...I go kinda light crazy because it doesnt matter how good I am if I cant see a damn thing. I carry a big "D" size light, a smaller one on my belt, one on my pistol and a spare in my pocket....plus one on each of my long guns...so that makes 4 on my body at any given point (when working, if I grab the big one).

For just plinking or hunting purposes it just isnt necessary to mount two lights...

Now if you want SERIOUS light at a reasonable price take a look at the Wolf Eyes Digital Police...on full blast it produces a claimed 700 Lumens on full blast at 1.5 hour run time (If I remember right) and its at a reasonable price. I bought mine at PTS lights and if you prove you are LEO/MIL he gives you a HEALTHY discount. The light is also rechargable, mines recharging right now since I have to work tomorrow night....

They sell tail caps with the pressure switch and you can find a mount for your rifle for it Im sure.
 
#15
Re: two is one and one is none so....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">2
Personally, I wouldnt buy ANYTHING clone. You end up buying it again later. Just saying!!! </div></div>

+1

PP out
 
#16
Re: two is one and one is none so....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">iam honestly asking... do you feel the magpul vid and classes are junk ? i have no experience so iam just honestly asking is costa all hype ? </div></div>

I have not been to their live classes, but I have seen the videos. I think some of the techniques are sound and several of us have adopted some of them.

Like any technique you need to analyze it. Give it a try. Then determine if it has enough merit to adopt in your tactical toolbox. If not, then discard it and drive on. I attend as many tactics classes as I can because it give me a broader range of skills to try. It doesn't mean I need to like or use all of them. However to discount them without giving them a fair chance would be a disservice to me and my students.

Of course this course of action only applies to techniques that are safe. I have seen some seriously dangerous shit done in the name of "training". That I will not take part in and I will verbally express my opinion of the level of danger involved.
 
#17
Re: two is one and one is none so....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: black_ump</div><div class="ubbcode-body">iam honestly asking... do you feel the magpul vid and classes are junk ? i have no experience so iam just honestly asking is costa all hype ? </div></div>

I have not been to their live classes, but I have seen the videos. I think some of the techniques are sound and several of us have adopted some of them.

Like any technique you need to analyze it. Give it a try. Then determine if it has enough merit to adopt in your tactical toolbox. If not, then discard it and drive on. I attend as many tactics classes as I can because it give me a broader range of skills to try. It doesn't mean I need to like or use all of them. However to discount them without giving them a fair chance would be a disservice to me and my students.

Of course this course of action only applies to techniques that are safe. I have seen some seriously dangerous shit done in the name of "training". That I will not take part in and I will verbally express my opinion of the level of danger involved. </div></div>
I would agree and first of all I would never throw magpul's stuff as being a pile of junk.
Like everything in life you take what you can put to personal use and skip on the rest. There is much to be learned from Costa and others like him. Plus as a trainer I like how he runs things compared to some of the other trainers I have worked with. I would like to do a magpul course in the near future instead of watching the video but we will see. Good luck and buy one good light not two crappy ones and like mentioned above carry your backup in your pocket and learn how to hold the light while shooting your rifle. I have my surefire light on my carbine and a streamlight thunder ranch in my pocket.
 
#18
Re: two is one and one is none so....

well thanks for the heads up. As i stated i just bought the clone until i can get the money up for a real sf m900a, i had to "kill the urge" so to speak.

but until then i will run this light and see how it holds up. Your advice is worth its weight in gold, thanks all for the heads up on the lights.
 
#20
Re: two is one and one is none so....

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Rickp</div><div class="ubbcode-body">One more suggestion. Dump the M900 light. Get a smaller and lighter light and grip.

That light system is HUGE. Stick to surefire but get a regular light with a push button tail switch.

Good Luck.

R. </div></div>

+1 Excellent advice....I have tried several lighting options but it is very hard to beat a Viking Tactics light mount ($27) and either a Streamlight Polytac LED ($35) or a Surefire G2 LED ($70). I like the Streamlight as its tailcap switch has both soft touch on and click switch on. This allows either the quick soft touch for peeks or the ability to click on and handle the weapon with one hand and still have the light on.

Excellent functionality and adaptability at an incredible pricepoint.

I don't like tape switches as it is too easy for inadvertent light ad's.
 
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