- Thread starter RAVAGE88
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They sent a new pin and spring last summer. Going by their instructions only for now.
I have asked about the trigger and if changing it out could help. Awaiting an answer.
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I'm not positive, but when I spoke to them on the phone it sounded like they were now doing the "modification" to all new 360s.Jeez all these many little issues I’m reading of late are a bit concerning. I’m over the pond in Australia waiting for the 360 to turn up. Sending a rifle back to America would be a f#$@king nightmare the way things are, to have any of these issues sorted. At $3200 bucks here I’m hoping it’s floorless.
I agree with you. Spending 2K on a barreled .22 action here in the states, you want it to be good to go. When I received my barreled action VGW failed to include the trigger pins. I called them, they sent them out "next day shipping" then UPS took a week to deliver them. Then once I got rounds down range I had the ejection issues. Once again, VGW was on it, sent me a prepaid label to ship my bolt, I received it back in less than two weeks. It now works as it should.
The ejection issue I feel is the price you pay when buying products that are new and pushing the envelope. It takes a bit of time to sort out all the kinks. The trigger pins was just an instantance of sloppy QC. That being said, their customer service was on point. I would still have no hesitation to buy from them again. Additionally, I bet you hear more of the issues because people are seeking solutions than you do about the rifles that are operating smoothly. Just my .02.
Yeah true probably very few have issues. Hopefully as stated above the ones shipped internationally are sorted. Cheers.
Evidently, you haven't read through all the Rim-X posts. There have been numerous reports of extractors being 'chipped' when owners tried to chamber rounds that were short-stroked or that came out of the extractor pocket for other reasons and then the shooter tried to force it into the chamber. There was a mention that Zermatt had changed the alloy or temper of the extractor due to this issue. I haven't had an issue with my Rim-X since I removed the pusher and stoned the bottom edge of the hook as per instructed by Zermatt, and it runs very smoothly, but there were problems early on.
I've never heard of anyone having a 'chipped' extractor on a V-22/Three-60/V-22S action.
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For your viewing pleasure
Vudoo V22 Gen II
MPA BA Comp in Vudoo Green Cerakote
20' ACE MTU contour barrel
TT Diamond single stage Flat trigger
Athlon Cronus BTR Gen2 4.5-29x56 with tenebraex scope caps on a 30 MOA rail
Ckye-pod PRS length
Wiebad mini stock pad
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So to follow up on my issue with Eley brass getting stuck in the chamber - that is not even extracting - I have to take a knife to pop the stuck brass out of the chamber - I cleaned everything thoroughly as per VGW instructions - issue is still there.
It shoots Lapua flawlessly - shoots Norma (produced by RWS) flawlessly - but just doesn't want to extract the Eley.
What a bummer.
It shoots Lapua flawlessly - shoots Norma (produced by RWS) flawlessly - but just doesn't want to extract the Eley.
What a bummer.
Is it all Eley ammo giving you problems, or just from a particular line/lot/box? My Vudoo handles all brands well, but my B14r has issues with Eley, with that ammo causing a really hard bolt close. So I’m inclined to think there are noticeable dimensional differences between Eley and other ammo.
I thought you actually meant close the bolt. Like, ready to fire.
So far I've only been able to test a lot of Eley Match - Im inclined to think the same and have heard this many times that Eley has different dimensions to their brass
Eley Match
Hmm no idea then. If it was CMP then yeah but match should work fine. I’d contact Vudoo. No reason that ammo shouldn’t function 100%.
Call Vudoo. You may be able to send it in and they can "touch" up the chamber. Exchange the extractor or maybe even a new barrel.
As I stated before, it sounds like a tight chamber and your brass is expanding enough to get stuck. Or, shoot a good 3,000 rounds and the Eley may start to extract. It's probably like .001" that causing this to happen.
That seems to be the case. In all honesty - I've waited so long for this rifle and it shoots Lapua and other ammo insanely well that I'm hoping it will just go away in time. I have a half a case of Lapua left so ill revisit the Eley once that is gone and maybe ill have more patience to possibly have to send in my new child back to Vudoo.
I could barely even chamber Eley. It took a lot of pressure and force to close the bolt with the Eley ammo I had. I didn't bother with it when the chamber is made for Lapua, just shoot Lapua. If you wanted a generic chambered bullet then I'd have gotten something else, like something spun up from DI Precision or Modacam.
The other issue with extraction could be a batch of odd rim thickness from Eley Ammo. The headspacing is set for Lapua ammo so something like .043. If the rim of the eley ammo is .039 then there's a lot of expansion that could happen that could make it wonky to extract the brass?
The other issue with extraction could be a batch of odd rim thickness from Eley Ammo. The headspacing is set for Lapua ammo so something like .043. If the rim of the eley ammo is .039 then there's a lot of expansion that could happen that could make it wonky to extract the brass?
My Vudoo three60 doesn't like feeding or chambering Eley or CCI but extracts fine. I mainly shoot SK and it feeds that smooth as butter. Does the Eley shoot that well that you wanna run it over SK/Lap?
Bartlein commented on that video:
”
A lighter weight contour when the barrel gets button rifled (Bartlein Barrels only does single point cut rifling) the stress being put into the blank is much greater. As you turn the contour smaller and smaller in size this can have a negative effect on the bore sizes changing and opening up. When this happens you cannot make the bore size smaller. This is not an issue with single point cut rifling. We don’t see this happening at all. Same can be said about threading the muzzle of the barrel for a muzzle brake or suppressor attachment. On button rifled barrels, threading the muzzle this is a common problem with the bore opening up. The last place you want the bore to open up or go sour on you is right at the muzzle's crown edge. Anything going wrong here has a negative impact on accuracy.
The video link below shows this process happening. The point of the video isn’t to pick on other barrel makers but to suggest to people to make the muzzle threads as large as you can to prevent this from happening. The first barrels where all the bores open up are all button rifled barrels. The last barrels are Bartlein cut rifled barrels. Yes the threads are larger on our barrels but we have made barrels with muzzle threads that measured 5/8” and we turned these down from a blank that started out at 2.280” o.d. and have not scrapped/rejected a single barrel because of it.”
From the bottom of this link
Contour Info | Bartlein Barrels
www.bartleinbarrels.com
So then why is it all br matches past and present have been won with button rifled barrels. Why aren't cut rifle barrels competitive in the br world if they're so good. Cut rifling will never compete with button barrels in rimfire. Where are those 20 barrels harper asked to have made when bartlein was challenged on calfees site?
I cannot get flat nosed Eley to feed in my Vudoo repeater . It will chamber in my single shot but only with pressure. Also I have had one “fail to fire” with Eley in the single shot even the the firing pin made a good impression on the cartridge case. That said Eley shoots well in the single shot. Lapua center X shoots great in both guns
Sounds like the solution for everyone is...
Don't shoot Eley in a Vudoo!
Don't shoot Eley in a Vudoo!
Never got those barrels. The part about the barrel expanding when the outside diameter is reduced is absolutely true. But the cure is simple.
Contour the barrel before you drill it or button it.
Expansion is one reasons straight contours are so popular in benchrest. (.850, 875, and .900's)
Reverse taped barrels were used to take advantage of this expansion. Cut a lot at the chamber end and less as you go toward the muzzle to create a tapered bore to ensure gas sealing all the way down. Seems to work, all competitive IR 50/50 sporter barrels are reverse tapered, (Calfee Profile 1) or step tapered, Calfee contour 2.
There have been a few, and I mean a very few, successful cut rifled barrels in RFBR. Bill Pippin shot the first 250 25X card with a Border cut rifled barrel. That barrel had a lot of rounds down it and it finally got to a point it would shoot. There have also been a few Muller cut rifled barrels that worked but Dan finally gave up on them and went to buttons with some other creative techniques. With the success of his 4 MIs and 8 grooves I don't think he has ever looked back.
With all of this in mind remember cut rifled barrels have been very successful in centerfire, and Bartlein has made many of the very best.
TKH (4628)
Eley EPS and round nose feed and shoot just fine in my Vudoos.
This Eley problem is interesting as I have a 360 repeater that feeds and extracts Eley 10x with no problems. This problem should not exist if Vudoo only uses one chamber in their repeaters and their tolerences held to very high standards as they claim! My 360 will also extract a live Eley round which tells me the bullet is not engaging the rifleing very much. Not being able to shoot Eley is something I would not tolerate as Eley still produces some of the most accurate ammo made.Sounds like the solution for everyone is...
Don't shoot Eley in a Vudoo!
I'd be willing to bet your average Vudoo chamber is more consistent than all these different lots of ammo from different manufacturers.
I'm well aware of the debate concerning cut-rifled vs button rifled bbls where 22 rimfire BR use is concerned. But I also recall some very successful smallbore shooters using Krieger cut rifled barrels in the mid 1990s. While there is probably a valid argument in favor of Shilen's ratchet rifling and other similar land designs that feature smooth or minimal deformation of the soft lead bullet as far as shooting in the wind goes, I've seen some very good results out of several Krieger blanks that I've chambered for 40X & Vudoo repeaters. I did use a Shilen R5 ratchet blank on my V-22S, and was very impressed & pleased with the groups I shot with it at 50yds, and was planning to put another R5 Shilen on the 2nd one of these actions - but I've been thinking I should also do a Krieger at the same time, then compare the accuracy out of both against each other. Might be enlightening, but even if the Krieger out-shot the Shilen, it would only be a single example, and wouldn't really prove anything to anyone but me...
Went to the shop and measured the diameter of a round of Eley black box and one of center X both the Eley case and bullet itself are slightly larger than the Lapua …. Explains the tightness of the Eley in trying to chamber it ….. it does chamber and extract just requires more bolt pressure to chamber
I Bought my rifle the same time Littlpod got his as did a friend of mine. Our serial numbers are almost sequential. Like Littlepod my rifle and my friends rifle will not chamber Eley properly. You litterally have to slam the bolt forward to get it to function. SK, Lapua and RWS all feed beautifully. I just don’t buy eley ammo.
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Is there any downside to using non lubricated ammo through the vudoo ACE barrel? I have a couple bricks of Federal 719 (HV Match) that I figured I could use to break the barrel in more. It doesn't seem to be lubricated like other match ammo.
Congrats!
Plenty of research and decision making in front of you. The manners/foundation is definitely top shelf options, and there is plenty of chassis out there - I've seen couple foundation stocks for sale on here, so they're out there.
In regards to optics, personal choice - especially in reticle options. Anything from Athlon & Vortex to NF and ZCo....
How many people here are running tuners vs just getting it lot tested at Lapua? I sold all my tuners... just lot tested and bought 2 cases and called it good for 2 years.
I just got my Vudoo back from the LRPC and bought a case of the best performing Midas+ lot. Took it to the range on a calm day, and with the tuner at an optimized setting, it still does a little better than bare barrel.
I had my Vudoo/Krieger repeater tested at Mesa a couple of years ago, and bought two cases of Center-X, since that lot out-shot all the Midas+ Daniel tried in it. That lot of Center-X has been the best ammo that I've tried in in my V-22S/Shilen single shot, but it shoots far better with a Pro-X tuner than without it. Because of that, I bought another Pro-X and put it on the Krieger bbl of the repeater, and it shoots quite a lot better with either that lot of Center-X or a very good lot of SK Rifle Match. Unless Lapua can give me a good reason not to test without a tuner, I'll be sending/taking the V-22S out to them with a bare barrel...
Test the gun as it is to be shot. Taking it out of the stock and taking the tuner off is not telling you how good the system is. It just says this lot shot decent with a naked barrel. I went to Arizona and had my gun tested in the stock with the scope and tuner as a complete system. The ammo we chose shoots lights out in 2 different guns.
Don"t take this reply the wrong way, but I don't believe you really understand the purpose of a tuner. They are not used to replace lot testing and they won't make bad ammo good. Tuners are used to eliminate verticle stringing in a shot group. This of course will tighten the overall group. They will not eliminate flyers and have little effect on horizional spread which is what lot testing will show. I also agree with Turboshooter that the best way to lot test is with the gun set up as you will be shooting it.
… but minus your tuner.
I don't understand everything around the tuner but that it adds weight and allows you to move the weight in a way that changes the harmonics. So in my head is that it allows you to adjust harmonics like whatever X movements you want to do on the tuner. And a stock barrel also is at Harmonic X...
And every ammo fired out of a rifle will interact with that harmonic, so it is very feasible though most likely not be totally at the best harmonic without any tuner on a rifle. But majority of the time a tuner will show improvements. I figured at Lapua when testing 30 lots of ammo, that is also testing 30 variations of harmonics too. Which is why we can do lot testing. And it's a chance that one of those 30 will work really well out of your rifle.
I have the ATS tuner and I ran through a few hundred rounds of ammo and it definitely helped with a few lots I had. The one lot that I had tested at Lapua though after going through all the different turns on the Tuner ended up being the same grouping size as without the tuner. Though I might've just been lucky.
A follow up question is then if we're turning vertical stringing and trying to smooth out the spikes +/- rounds, then the smallest ES/SD is the best? Would that make sense then that if sending to Lapua, really what you want is a chronograph of ammo and for them to send the smallest lot of ES/SD and then just get a tuner to tune it.
I'm not quite sure how horizontal spread works. I thought tuning can adjust for that too if it's harmonic based. It seems when I look at people running their tuner settings, groups open up not just vertically but in both directions.
I'm not quite sure how horizontal spread works. I thought tuning can adjust for that too if it's harmonic based. It seems when I look at people running their tuner settings, groups open up not just vertically but in both directions.
After drooling over the vudoo since I’ve heard of them I finally pulled the trigger today and ordered my own. Mirror image of my centerfire in a MPA tungsten chassis. Can not wait for it to be here. Only 4.5-5months
. I’m going to have a shoot off with my cz457 with a lilja barrel that shoots lights out with center x at 50yds. Hoping this vudoo makes me smile as much as my cz457 does. Single hole 5 round groups or bust. If my cz can do it, surely a vudoo can. 20” mtu barrel. Can’t wait to throw my can on it and seeing what she can do at 100. My cz has been on steel at 400, although it was probably 12”x24”, still cool to hear the ping of the steel at that distance. Haven’t been able to hit at 500 but hoping my new lady can make it happen.
. I’m going to have a shoot off with my cz457 with a lilja barrel that shoots lights out with center x at 50yds. Hoping this vudoo makes me smile as much as my cz457 does. Single hole 5 round groups or bust. If my cz can do it, surely a vudoo can. 20” mtu barrel. Can’t wait to throw my can on it and seeing what she can do at 100. My cz has been on steel at 400, although it was probably 12”x24”, still cool to hear the ping of the steel at that distance. Haven’t been able to hit at 500 but hoping my new lady can make it happen. If you believe a tuner's primary function is to improve accuracy by reducing vertical spread, then what's it going to hurt to test to find ammo with the least spread in a bare barrel to begin with? IOW, why not use a tuner to improve what's proven to shoot best in your barrel? In reviewing the data that Daniel emailed after testing the Krieger barreled V-22 repeater that I sent out, the lot of Center-X I wound up buying had not only less vertical than any of the other ammo he used, it also had less horizontal. And he tested just the bbl'd action held in their fixture, not the complete rifle - sending just the bbl'd action is what they recommended. Either some of you guys have mis-interpreted what you've been told, or have been given different instructions & reasons for them than I got from Daniel. I will ask for clarification when I call to arrange testing again, because I'm not a rocket scientist...maybe I should ask Brian Litz for an opinion?
I can assure you I haven't misinterpreted anything. I shoot br and specifically flew out there to test it in the stock with tuner and scope as a complete system. 10 years of br experience tells me to test the system not just a barreled action. Here's the thing the ammo you choose to buy may shoot killer groups in their tunnel but in the real world of moving from bull to bull it may not preform as well. It's just a reality you have to live with. We got 3 lots when I went there, 2 of those lots shot under 12mm for 20 shots one lot was 13.6 for 20 shots. Get that same ammo home and shoot at a indoor range and one lot shot well enough for me to call it good ammo. The other 2 lots had fliers and wouldn't stay centered. The biggest gouping ammo from the tunnel ended up shooting the best in real world shooting. Just my experience
They let you play with the tuner as you tested each possible lot? Or you just left the tuner at the setting for your previous favorite ammo?
My tuner has been set since the day I got it back from the gunsmith and hasn't been touched and won't be touched. Tuners don't tune ammo, they tune the barrel there is no need for adjustment once the correct tune is found. I've shot both eley and lapua on the exact same tune. Once the gun is tuned it's just a matter of finding the right ammo.
Tuner manufacturers -- at least two that I've talked with -- disagree with you. Just like centerfire, it depends on both the barrel *AND* the ammo... especially since ammo velocities and their effect on barrel vibration/whip differ. It's generally not much if you're using similar 22LR ammo, since bullet weights will likely be the same, but velocity won't, so it will usually benefit by at least slight adjustment (according to tuner manufacturers, Mike Ezell being one of the ones I've consulted with.
If you've ever handloaded for a centerfire rifle with a tuner, you KNOW that when you change loads, it changes spread, not just impact point, even with the same weight projectile.
If you've ever handloaded for a centerfire rifle with a tuner, you KNOW that when you change loads, it changes spread, not just impact point, even with the same weight projectile.
Turbo - I will defer to your experience shooting RF BR. I built and started shooting my V-22S only last summer, moving from my old 2nd hand Hart front rest & bunny ear rear bag to a PQP Precision joystick 1pc rest, shooting on the ARA 25-bull target. Didn't take long to figure out that it's quite a bit easier to shoot impressive one-hole 5rd groups than it is to move from one bull to the next and keep my shots centered well enough to avoid dropping 50pts. I bought a couple of packages of the ARA targets, and will need to do quite a bit more shooting on them in order to even begin to figure out how to avoid making mistakes while moving from one bull to the next.
I put a Shilen ratchet in R5 contour on the Vudoo, finished at just under 25", and was not displeased with the groups I shot with it before buying the ARA targets, but it shot so much better after I'd attached the Pro-X tuner that I just assumed it would be a walk in the park to shoot 2500s with it. And it might've been fully capable of doing so - with an experienced 22RFBR shooter running it. There's another V-22S action in the safe, waiting on an English walnut prone stock to be completed. I got this one with the 60* cocking piece so I can use a trigger that can be adjusted for a 1/2lb to 1lb break for prone shooting. For smallbore prone shooting, it's likely that I'll just send the bbl'd action out to be tested as the V-22 repeater was.
I put a Shilen ratchet in R5 contour on the Vudoo, finished at just under 25", and was not displeased with the groups I shot with it before buying the ARA targets, but it shot so much better after I'd attached the Pro-X tuner that I just assumed it would be a walk in the park to shoot 2500s with it. And it might've been fully capable of doing so - with an experienced 22RFBR shooter running it. There's another V-22S action in the safe, waiting on an English walnut prone stock to be completed. I got this one with the 60* cocking piece so I can use a trigger that can be adjusted for a 1/2lb to 1lb break for prone shooting. For smallbore prone shooting, it's likely that I'll just send the bbl'd action out to be tested as the V-22 repeater was.
Who would be the 2 manufactures of said rimfire tuners you've talked to? First I have nothing to say about Mike's product other than you don't see them on winning guns on the national level. The most popular tuners on the market as of today would be harrell and the pqp and they both do the same thing. There is no magic dust that helps reduce vibrations look at winning guns that's all one needs to do. The top of the top don't use magic tuners and rarely if at all move their tuners once tune is astablished.
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