F T/R Competition What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
- Thread starter jjones88
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Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
In the same boat got everything but the hard and trigger for my next build and already have a 308 and 223
In the same boat got everything but the hard and trigger for my next build and already have a 308 and 223
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
.284
Good BC, moderate recoil, decent barrel life.
.284
Good BC, moderate recoil, decent barrel life.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjones88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class and why? I've come to the point in my build were I need to pick the round I'm going to shoot so I'm looking for so input on the subject. Thanks </div></div>
If you are talking F-TR there are only 2 options. The rules specify: A rifle restricted to the chambers of unmodified .308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO or unmodified .223 Remington/5/56mm x 45 NATO cartridge cases it must be a 308 Win or a 223, and if you are going to shoot 1000 yards then there is really only one, 308 Win.
The wind murders the 223 at 1000 yards. There are some people who shoot them and there was a world record set in Great Britain with a .223, but the reality is there really is only one choice.
If you want to shoot F-Open, what ever you want. Many are having great success with the 7mm shot magnums, esp the 7RSAUM. Guys opting to go with WSMs are often using the 300 or 270 chambering necked to 7mm to get access to better brass options. (The 7WSM is a longer case than the 300/270) There are also some 6/6.5s running out there in Open.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jjones88</div><div class="ubbcode-body">What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class and why? I've come to the point in my build were I need to pick the round I'm going to shoot so I'm looking for so input on the subject. Thanks </div></div>
If you are talking F-TR there are only 2 options. The rules specify: A rifle restricted to the chambers of unmodified .308 Winchester/7.62mm NATO or unmodified .223 Remington/5/56mm x 45 NATO cartridge cases it must be a 308 Win or a 223, and if you are going to shoot 1000 yards then there is really only one, 308 Win.
The wind murders the 223 at 1000 yards. There are some people who shoot them and there was a world record set in Great Britain with a .223, but the reality is there really is only one choice.
If you want to shoot F-Open, what ever you want. Many are having great success with the 7mm shot magnums, esp the 7RSAUM. Guys opting to go with WSMs are often using the 300 or 270 chambering necked to 7mm to get access to better brass options. (The 7WSM is a longer case than the 300/270) There are also some 6/6.5s running out there in Open.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
Remember the rifle can (read should) weigh 22 lbs. Recoil on a 22 lb rig is not a problem.
Windage is the killer in F class at 1000 yards. The Open guys are pushing the big 7mm pills at high speeds, and it pays off.
Pick a bullet and look at your windage vs a 180 Hybred in the 3000FPS range. If they are pushing inches less per MPH of full value wind who is dropping fewer points?
Want to hear crazy, rumor on the street is that Berger is coming out with a 190 in .284 with a G1 of something like .75, it's an ICBM.
Remember the rifle can (read should) weigh 22 lbs. Recoil on a 22 lb rig is not a problem.
Windage is the killer in F class at 1000 yards. The Open guys are pushing the big 7mm pills at high speeds, and it pays off.
Pick a bullet and look at your windage vs a 180 Hybred in the 3000FPS range. If they are pushing inches less per MPH of full value wind who is dropping fewer points?
Want to hear crazy, rumor on the street is that Berger is coming out with a 190 in .284 with a G1 of something like .75, it's an ICBM.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
Berger is going to have from what I have read, a 195 grain hybrid 7mm bullet with a G1 BC of. 797. In a magnum, it will equate to something 4.5 moa in a ten mile an hour full value wind. Which means, less holding off or twisting of the knobs. Now if they would come out with a 90 grain. 223 hybrid bullet.
Berger is going to have from what I have read, a 195 grain hybrid 7mm bullet with a G1 BC of. 797. In a magnum, it will equate to something 4.5 moa in a ten mile an hour full value wind. Which means, less holding off or twisting of the knobs. Now if they would come out with a 90 grain. 223 hybrid bullet.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
Are any of the magnums getting decent barrel life? Seems we're paying for our lack so wind reading abilities with pushing high BC barrels faster and faster. The cost is barrel life.... Like a burned out barrel in less than 800 rounds.
The 300 magnums should get a little more barrel life. Anyone shooting the 300 RSAUM or the WSM?
Are any of the magnums getting decent barrel life? Seems we're paying for our lack so wind reading abilities with pushing high BC barrels faster and faster. The cost is barrel life.... Like a burned out barrel in less than 800 rounds.
The 300 magnums should get a little more barrel life. Anyone shooting the 300 RSAUM or the WSM?
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdavis78102</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are any of the magnums getting decent barrel life? Seems we're paying for our lack so wind reading abilities with pushing high BC barrels faster and faster. The cost is barrel life.... Like a burned out barrel in less than 800 rounds.
The 300 magnums should get a little more barrel life. Anyone shooting the 300 RSAUM or the WSM? </div></div>
You are missing the point. This is competition, if your goal is to <span style="text-decoration: underline">participate</span> then shoot what ever you want, but if it is your goal to <span style="text-decoration: underline">compete to win</span> then take all of the advantages available under the rules. That is pretty simple. It's not so much lack of wind reading ability as it is minimizing losing points to variations that you might not be able to see. Remember, the 10-ring on an F class target is only 10 inches at 1000 yards, the X-ring is 5". For most bullets 1MPH of full value wind will push you out of the 10 ring. How much time have you spent at 1000 yards? That is a whisper of variation. If you think the guys shooting at the top of the game lack wind reading skills you are sorely mistaken. Nobody shoots clean or the high 190s in this game with out seriously good wind skill.
There is a point where recoil does begin to play into things. I've never heard of anyone shooting the ultra mags or the 300 winmag. Reality is that for the same weight the .284s have higher BCs so unless you can push a much heavier bullet the .284s always win the bc race.
Open is just that, open shoot what ever you want as long as it's less than 35 caliber and less than 22 lbs and no muzzle brake. That said, I've never seen a 338 on the line. Recoil does take it's toll in a 15 to 20 shot string plus sighters.
Personally I'm not getting into F-Open, I'm sticking to F-TR so I shoot a 308, so does everyone else. Thirty to thirty two inch barrel, and get ti close to eighteen pounds. After that it's all on you. F-TR is the spec class, open on the other hand, it's just that, and just because you can't afford four or five barrels a year doesn't mean someone else can't. And I will point out one more time. The 7RSAUM barrel that shot the current F-Open record of 200-15X twice in the same weekend had 1500 rounds down the tube when it did it. It's not like the burn out in load development.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdavis78102</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are any of the magnums getting decent barrel life? Seems we're paying for our lack so wind reading abilities with pushing high BC barrels faster and faster. The cost is barrel life.... Like a burned out barrel in less than 800 rounds.
The 300 magnums should get a little more barrel life. Anyone shooting the 300 RSAUM or the WSM? </div></div>
You are missing the point. This is competition, if your goal is to <span style="text-decoration: underline">participate</span> then shoot what ever you want, but if it is your goal to <span style="text-decoration: underline">compete to win</span> then take all of the advantages available under the rules. That is pretty simple. It's not so much lack of wind reading ability as it is minimizing losing points to variations that you might not be able to see. Remember, the 10-ring on an F class target is only 10 inches at 1000 yards, the X-ring is 5". For most bullets 1MPH of full value wind will push you out of the 10 ring. How much time have you spent at 1000 yards? That is a whisper of variation. If you think the guys shooting at the top of the game lack wind reading skills you are sorely mistaken. Nobody shoots clean or the high 190s in this game with out seriously good wind skill.
There is a point where recoil does begin to play into things. I've never heard of anyone shooting the ultra mags or the 300 winmag. Reality is that for the same weight the .284s have higher BCs so unless you can push a much heavier bullet the .284s always win the bc race.
Open is just that, open shoot what ever you want as long as it's less than 35 caliber and less than 22 lbs and no muzzle brake. That said, I've never seen a 338 on the line. Recoil does take it's toll in a 15 to 20 shot string plus sighters.
Personally I'm not getting into F-Open, I'm sticking to F-TR so I shoot a 308, so does everyone else. Thirty to thirty two inch barrel, and get ti close to eighteen pounds. After that it's all on you. F-TR is the spec class, open on the other hand, it's just that, and just because you can't afford four or five barrels a year doesn't mean someone else can't. And I will point out one more time. The 7RSAUM barrel that shot the current F-Open record of 200-15X twice in the same weekend had 1500 rounds down the tube when it did it. It's not like the burn out in load development.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a point where recoil does begin to play into things. I've never heard of anyone shooting the ultra mags or the 300 winmag. Reality is that for the same weight the .284s have higher BCs so unless you can push a much heavier bullet the .284s always win the bc race.
</div></div>
Arne Brennan (TX65 over at accurateshooter.com) shoots a 30 cal wildcat based on a .300 Norma Mag., that shoots a 230gr Hybrid at around 3100fps. I shot next to him at a 1k match earlier this year and the boom and berm impact are both impressive.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body">There is a point where recoil does begin to play into things. I've never heard of anyone shooting the ultra mags or the 300 winmag. Reality is that for the same weight the .284s have higher BCs so unless you can push a much heavier bullet the .284s always win the bc race.
</div></div>
Arne Brennan (TX65 over at accurateshooter.com) shoots a 30 cal wildcat based on a .300 Norma Mag., that shoots a 230gr Hybrid at around 3100fps. I shot next to him at a 1k match earlier this year and the boom and berm impact are both impressive.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
For F-Open, you see two groupings mainly:
1. 7mm: 284, 284 Shehane, short magnums. These have max wind-busting ability and the magnums have very short barrel life. The straight 284 and Shehane have much better barrel life than the short magnums.
2. 6mm Variants: 6mmBR, 6BRX, 6Dasher, 6XC, 243WIN. Out to 600 yards, it is very tough to beat a plain 6mmBR, even on a windy day because it is the most accurate cartridge on the planet from 300-600yards. Beyond 600 yards, and the 6mmBR improved versions and larger cartridges start to look good because of the extra 150fps+ they provide. On a windy day at 1K, the 7mms have an edge. On a moderate day at 1K, the 6mm improved versions probably have the edge because of their pure accuracy and mild recoil.
I shoot a 243WIN and it is a good cartridge, but I'm switching over to the 6BRX because I will get 500-1000 rounds better barrel life, a less fussy and more accurate cartridge, use 10gr less powder while only giving up 25-50 fps...I don't push my 243WIN. I also expect my primer pockets/brass on the 6BRX to last longer because they use small primers vs the large on the 243WIN.
Some 6.5mm fans are going to get up in arms since I left them out. My response is that if you are thinking of the 6.5mm cartridges, you should look real hard at the 7mm: better ballistics. For a while, the 6.5x284 was considered THE 1K cartridge for F-Class. That was until the US F-Class team shooting 6.5x284s got completely shellacked by the Brits using 7mm short mags a few years back. Bottom line, many folks who used to prefer 6.5mm cartridges have migrated up to the 7mm ones.
Hope that gives you some things to consider.
PS. jjones88, based on your comments, I'd suggest looking at a straight .284. Dgosnell who posted above is a top F-class shooter and could provide you with a lot of good info. He got 3rd place at this year's F-class Nationals....among other notables... You might want to PM him with your questions.
For F-Open, you see two groupings mainly:
1. 7mm: 284, 284 Shehane, short magnums. These have max wind-busting ability and the magnums have very short barrel life. The straight 284 and Shehane have much better barrel life than the short magnums.
2. 6mm Variants: 6mmBR, 6BRX, 6Dasher, 6XC, 243WIN. Out to 600 yards, it is very tough to beat a plain 6mmBR, even on a windy day because it is the most accurate cartridge on the planet from 300-600yards. Beyond 600 yards, and the 6mmBR improved versions and larger cartridges start to look good because of the extra 150fps+ they provide. On a windy day at 1K, the 7mms have an edge. On a moderate day at 1K, the 6mm improved versions probably have the edge because of their pure accuracy and mild recoil.
I shoot a 243WIN and it is a good cartridge, but I'm switching over to the 6BRX because I will get 500-1000 rounds better barrel life, a less fussy and more accurate cartridge, use 10gr less powder while only giving up 25-50 fps...I don't push my 243WIN. I also expect my primer pockets/brass on the 6BRX to last longer because they use small primers vs the large on the 243WIN.
Some 6.5mm fans are going to get up in arms since I left them out. My response is that if you are thinking of the 6.5mm cartridges, you should look real hard at the 7mm: better ballistics. For a while, the 6.5x284 was considered THE 1K cartridge for F-Class. That was until the US F-Class team shooting 6.5x284s got completely shellacked by the Brits using 7mm short mags a few years back. Bottom line, many folks who used to prefer 6.5mm cartridges have migrated up to the 7mm ones.
Hope that gives you some things to consider.
PS. jjones88, based on your comments, I'd suggest looking at a straight .284. Dgosnell who posted above is a top F-class shooter and could provide you with a lot of good info. He got 3rd place at this year's F-class Nationals....among other notables... You might want to PM him with your questions.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdavis78102</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are any of the magnums getting decent barrel life? Seems we're paying for our lack so wind reading abilities with pushing high BC barrels faster and faster. The cost is barrel life.... Like a burned out barrel in less than 800 rounds.
The 300 magnums should get a little more barrel life. Anyone shooting the 300 RSAUM or the WSM? </div></div>
You are missing the point. This is competition, if your goal is to <span style="text-decoration: underline">participate</span> then shoot what ever you want, but if it is your goal to <span style="text-decoration: underline">compete to win</span> then take all of the advantages available under the rules. That is pretty simple. It's not so much lack of wind reading ability as it is minimizing losing points to variations that you might not be able to see. Remember, the 10-ring on an F class target is only 10 inches at 1000 yards, the X-ring is 5". For most bullets 1MPH of full value wind will push you out of the 10 ring. How much time have you spent at 1000 yards? That is a whisper of variation. If you think the guys shooting at the top of the game lack wind reading skills you are sorely mistaken. Nobody shoots clean or the high 190s in this game with out seriously good wind skill.
There is a point where recoil does begin to play into things. I've never heard of anyone shooting the ultra mags or the 300 winmag. Reality is that for the same weight the .284s have higher BCs so unless you can push a much heavier bullet the .284s always win the bc race.
Open is just that, open shoot what ever you want as long as it's less than 35 caliber and less than 22 lbs and no muzzle brake. That said, I've never seen a 338 on the line. Recoil does take it's toll in a 15 to 20 shot string plus sighters.
Personally I'm not getting into F-Open, I'm sticking to F-TR so I shoot a 308, so does everyone else. Thirty to thirty two inch barrel, and get ti close to eighteen pounds. After that it's all on you. F-TR is the spec class, open on the other hand, it's just that, and just because you can't afford four or five barrels a year doesn't mean someone else can't. And I will point out one more time. The 7RSAUM barrel that shot the current F-Open record of 200-15X twice in the same weekend had 1500 rounds down the tube when it did it. It's not like the burn out in load development.
</div></div>
MDavis shoots at 1000 pretty often. He has also shot a few cleans at 1000.
I think shooting the heavy .30s may be a bit too much. A 7mm magnum is pushing it, as far as acceptable recoil for me.
Also, my saum barrel life is not that good. I don't know for sure what it will be but it is not going to make 1500. I'll have to ask Danny about that number.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdavis78102</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are any of the magnums getting decent barrel life? Seems we're paying for our lack so wind reading abilities with pushing high BC barrels faster and faster. The cost is barrel life.... Like a burned out barrel in less than 800 rounds.
The 300 magnums should get a little more barrel life. Anyone shooting the 300 RSAUM or the WSM? </div></div>
You are missing the point. This is competition, if your goal is to <span style="text-decoration: underline">participate</span> then shoot what ever you want, but if it is your goal to <span style="text-decoration: underline">compete to win</span> then take all of the advantages available under the rules. That is pretty simple. It's not so much lack of wind reading ability as it is minimizing losing points to variations that you might not be able to see. Remember, the 10-ring on an F class target is only 10 inches at 1000 yards, the X-ring is 5". For most bullets 1MPH of full value wind will push you out of the 10 ring. How much time have you spent at 1000 yards? That is a whisper of variation. If you think the guys shooting at the top of the game lack wind reading skills you are sorely mistaken. Nobody shoots clean or the high 190s in this game with out seriously good wind skill.
There is a point where recoil does begin to play into things. I've never heard of anyone shooting the ultra mags or the 300 winmag. Reality is that for the same weight the .284s have higher BCs so unless you can push a much heavier bullet the .284s always win the bc race.
Open is just that, open shoot what ever you want as long as it's less than 35 caliber and less than 22 lbs and no muzzle brake. That said, I've never seen a 338 on the line. Recoil does take it's toll in a 15 to 20 shot string plus sighters.
Personally I'm not getting into F-Open, I'm sticking to F-TR so I shoot a 308, so does everyone else. Thirty to thirty two inch barrel, and get ti close to eighteen pounds. After that it's all on you. F-TR is the spec class, open on the other hand, it's just that, and just because you can't afford four or five barrels a year doesn't mean someone else can't. And I will point out one more time. The 7RSAUM barrel that shot the current F-Open record of 200-15X twice in the same weekend had 1500 rounds down the tube when it did it. It's not like the burn out in load development.
</div></div>
MDavis shoots at 1000 pretty often. He has also shot a few cleans at 1000.
I think shooting the heavy .30s may be a bit too much. A 7mm magnum is pushing it, as far as acceptable recoil for me.
Also, my saum barrel life is not that good. I don't know for sure what it will be but it is not going to make 1500. I'll have to ask Danny about that number.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DGosnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.284
Good BC, moderate recoil, decent barrel life. </div></div>
+1, don’t forget exceptionally accurate.
The 7mm short mag barrel life seems to vary greatly based on velocity, if you push the top end you'll get very good at changing barrels.
I was considering building a 30cal magnum until a couple of weeks ago when I scored for a national level shooter that was using a 300 mag at the SWLRN. He was holding decent vertical but it seemed the wind was pushing it more than the 7mm's on the targets beside it. He switched back to a 7mm and shot a very impressive score.
I believe the 30 can beat a 7mm in the wind but you will have to go very big with the case. Then you'll get very good at changing barrels again.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DGosnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body">.284
Good BC, moderate recoil, decent barrel life. </div></div>
+1, don’t forget exceptionally accurate.
The 7mm short mag barrel life seems to vary greatly based on velocity, if you push the top end you'll get very good at changing barrels.
I was considering building a 30cal magnum until a couple of weeks ago when I scored for a national level shooter that was using a 300 mag at the SWLRN. He was holding decent vertical but it seemed the wind was pushing it more than the 7mm's on the targets beside it. He switched back to a 7mm and shot a very impressive score.
I believe the 30 can beat a 7mm in the wind but you will have to go very big with the case. Then you'll get very good at changing barrels again.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
Thanks guys, good info. I was pondering a caliber choice also. Does the 284 shehane give a better edge over the straight 284?
Thanks guys, good info. I was pondering a caliber choice also. Does the 284 shehane give a better edge over the straight 284?
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys, good info. I was pondering a caliber choice also. Does the 284 shehane give a better edge over the straight 284? </div></div>
Yes, most people get ~2850fps from a straight 284 shooting 180gr bullets, you can get another 50-100fps with the Shehane. The only downside is the cost of the dies, reamers, etc.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: desertshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Thanks guys, good info. I was pondering a caliber choice also. Does the 284 shehane give a better edge over the straight 284? </div></div>
Yes, most people get ~2850fps from a straight 284 shooting 180gr bullets, you can get another 50-100fps with the Shehane. The only downside is the cost of the dies, reamers, etc.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
Although a lot of people do, I personally do not believe the on target difference between the two is worth the extra expense or the trouble of fire forming the brass. If you must have the extra capacity there are 7mm cartridges out there that have it, however most F-Class shooters dismiss them because they lack the cool factor.
Although a lot of people do, I personally do not believe the on target difference between the two is worth the extra expense or the trouble of fire forming the brass. If you must have the extra capacity there are 7mm cartridges out there that have it, however most F-Class shooters dismiss them because they lack the cool factor.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
I'm leaning towards the 7wsm. My buddies are having great luck with their 6BR' s though
I'm leaning towards the 7wsm. My buddies are having great luck with their 6BR' s though
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
I did some calcs for another post on a different forum that may help in deciding on your cartridge choice, I calc this stuff out to determine how well I need to judge wind speed to stay in the 10 ring via wind high and low, under a moderate condition of a 10mh full value wind. You can see the diference in a 284 vs a 7mag in the 2 speeds listed and for reference is a 308/185berger for comparison. 1000 yard info
copy/paste
I did some calcs on JBM for a 180 VLD Litz, (not the Hybrid) at 3000 ft elevation in a 10 mph wind, with a center x hold I wanted to figure out the wind high and low that would push a bullet exactly 5" rt or left of center, or a solid 10 ring hit.
At 3000 fps the wind high and low from a 10 mph hold;
11.10 mph high to 8.92 mph low. (2.18mph window)
At 2900 fps the wind high and low from a 10 mph hold;
11.00 mph high to 8.99 mph low. (2.01mph window)
Amazing how close we would have to judge wind speed in a full value 10 mph wind, I didn't realize how good we really are Pretty small window,
(308 185 Berger at 2800 fps.)(10.75 mph to 9.24 mph 1.5 mph window, wow.)
I did some calcs for another post on a different forum that may help in deciding on your cartridge choice, I calc this stuff out to determine how well I need to judge wind speed to stay in the 10 ring via wind high and low, under a moderate condition of a 10mh full value wind. You can see the diference in a 284 vs a 7mag in the 2 speeds listed and for reference is a 308/185berger for comparison. 1000 yard info
copy/paste
I did some calcs on JBM for a 180 VLD Litz, (not the Hybrid) at 3000 ft elevation in a 10 mph wind, with a center x hold I wanted to figure out the wind high and low that would push a bullet exactly 5" rt or left of center, or a solid 10 ring hit.
At 3000 fps the wind high and low from a 10 mph hold;
11.10 mph high to 8.92 mph low. (2.18mph window)
At 2900 fps the wind high and low from a 10 mph hold;
11.00 mph high to 8.99 mph low. (2.01mph window)
Amazing how close we would have to judge wind speed in a full value 10 mph wind, I didn't realize how good we really are Pretty small window,
(308 185 Berger at 2800 fps.)(10.75 mph to 9.24 mph 1.5 mph window, wow.)
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DGosnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdavis78102</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are any of the magnums getting decent barrel life? Seems we're paying for our lack so wind reading abilities with pushing high BC barrels faster and faster. The cost is barrel life.... Like a burned out barrel in less than 800 rounds.
The 300 magnums should get a little more barrel life. Anyone shooting the 300 RSAUM or the WSM? </div></div>
You are missing the point. This is competition, if your goal is to <span style="text-decoration: underline">participate</span> then shoot what ever you want, but if it is your goal to <span style="text-decoration: underline">compete to win</span> then take all of the advantages available under the rules. That is pretty simple. It's not so much lack of wind reading ability as it is minimizing losing points to variations that you might not be able to see. Remember, the 10-ring on an F class target is only 10 inches at 1000 yards, the X-ring is 5". For most bullets 1MPH of full value wind will push you out of the 10 ring. How much time have you spent at 1000 yards? That is a whisper of variation. If you think the guys shooting at the top of the game lack wind reading skills you are sorely mistaken. Nobody shoots clean or the high 190s in this game with out seriously good wind skill.
There is a point where recoil does begin to play into things. I've never heard of anyone shooting the ultra mags or the 300 winmag. Reality is that for the same weight the .284s have higher BCs so unless you can push a much heavier bullet the .284s always win the bc race.
Open is just that, open shoot what ever you want as long as it's less than 35 caliber and less than 22 lbs and no muzzle brake. That said, I've never seen a 338 on the line. Recoil does take it's toll in a 15 to 20 shot string plus sighters.
Personally I'm not getting into F-Open, I'm sticking to F-TR so I shoot a 308, so does everyone else. Thirty to thirty two inch barrel, and get ti close to eighteen pounds. After that it's all on you. F-TR is the spec class, open on the other hand, it's just that, and just because you can't afford four or five barrels a year doesn't mean someone else can't. And I will point out one more time. The 7RSAUM barrel that shot the current F-Open record of 200-15X twice in the same weekend had 1500 rounds down the tube when it did it. It's not like the burn out in load development.
</div></div>
MDavis shoots at 1000 pretty often. He has also shot a few cleans at 1000.
I think shooting the heavy .30s may be a bit too much. A 7mm magnum is pushing it, as far as acceptable recoil for me.
Also, my saum barrel life is not that good. I don't know for sure what it will be but it is not going to make 1500. I'll have to ask Danny about that number. </div></div>
XTR- didn't really miss the point. But exchanging "honing your skills" for more forgiving equipment doesnt make you a better shooter.....just monetarily poorer. Being 7'10" tall and owning a basketball isn't going to make me an NBA star, if I can't even dribble down my chin.
I think Gosnell is right. Laying down behind a .30 Magnum for 60 to 80 rounds in a day, is a little more than what I would call fun. When I stop having fun at this, then I'll start playing golf or something else. Now, where did I hock my clubs....?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: DGosnell</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: XTR</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mdavis78102</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Are any of the magnums getting decent barrel life? Seems we're paying for our lack so wind reading abilities with pushing high BC barrels faster and faster. The cost is barrel life.... Like a burned out barrel in less than 800 rounds.
The 300 magnums should get a little more barrel life. Anyone shooting the 300 RSAUM or the WSM? </div></div>
You are missing the point. This is competition, if your goal is to <span style="text-decoration: underline">participate</span> then shoot what ever you want, but if it is your goal to <span style="text-decoration: underline">compete to win</span> then take all of the advantages available under the rules. That is pretty simple. It's not so much lack of wind reading ability as it is minimizing losing points to variations that you might not be able to see. Remember, the 10-ring on an F class target is only 10 inches at 1000 yards, the X-ring is 5". For most bullets 1MPH of full value wind will push you out of the 10 ring. How much time have you spent at 1000 yards? That is a whisper of variation. If you think the guys shooting at the top of the game lack wind reading skills you are sorely mistaken. Nobody shoots clean or the high 190s in this game with out seriously good wind skill.
There is a point where recoil does begin to play into things. I've never heard of anyone shooting the ultra mags or the 300 winmag. Reality is that for the same weight the .284s have higher BCs so unless you can push a much heavier bullet the .284s always win the bc race.
Open is just that, open shoot what ever you want as long as it's less than 35 caliber and less than 22 lbs and no muzzle brake. That said, I've never seen a 338 on the line. Recoil does take it's toll in a 15 to 20 shot string plus sighters.
Personally I'm not getting into F-Open, I'm sticking to F-TR so I shoot a 308, so does everyone else. Thirty to thirty two inch barrel, and get ti close to eighteen pounds. After that it's all on you. F-TR is the spec class, open on the other hand, it's just that, and just because you can't afford four or five barrels a year doesn't mean someone else can't. And I will point out one more time. The 7RSAUM barrel that shot the current F-Open record of 200-15X twice in the same weekend had 1500 rounds down the tube when it did it. It's not like the burn out in load development.
</div></div>
MDavis shoots at 1000 pretty often. He has also shot a few cleans at 1000.
I think shooting the heavy .30s may be a bit too much. A 7mm magnum is pushing it, as far as acceptable recoil for me.
Also, my saum barrel life is not that good. I don't know for sure what it will be but it is not going to make 1500. I'll have to ask Danny about that number. </div></div>
XTR- didn't really miss the point. But exchanging "honing your skills" for more forgiving equipment doesnt make you a better shooter.....just monetarily poorer. Being 7'10" tall and owning a basketball isn't going to make me an NBA star, if I can't even dribble down my chin.
I think Gosnell is right. Laying down behind a .30 Magnum for 60 to 80 rounds in a day, is a little more than what I would call fun. When I stop having fun at this, then I'll start playing golf or something else. Now, where did I hock my clubs....?
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
Shooting a .300WSM in matches, could do better ballistically with a 7WSM. When I rebarrel the .300 WSM, though, it will be reborn as another .300 WSM. Have a .308 in the same config that I use for practice. Stuck mentally in .30 caliber. Yes, I'm over 35.
Playing right now with a cheapo .300WM (used 110FP) that weighs only about 15#. Going to work up a Berger 230 OTM load for it and try it in tactical matches. Already tried the 225 Hornadys and it kicks pretty good with the heavies.
I'm not really distracted anymore by moderate recoil. Yes, I'm over 35.
Shooting a .300WSM in matches, could do better ballistically with a 7WSM. When I rebarrel the .300 WSM, though, it will be reborn as another .300 WSM. Have a .308 in the same config that I use for practice. Stuck mentally in .30 caliber. Yes, I'm over 35.
Playing right now with a cheapo .300WM (used 110FP) that weighs only about 15#. Going to work up a Berger 230 OTM load for it and try it in tactical matches. Already tried the 225 Hornadys and it kicks pretty good with the heavies.
I'm not really distracted anymore by moderate recoil. Yes, I'm over 35.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
For 300 yards always the 6mm Dasher
For 600 yards unless the wind is ripping the 6mm Dasher
For 600 yards when the wind is ripping the 6.5 x 47 L
At 800, 900, and 1,000 yards the 6.5 x 47 L unless there is a decent wind then I grab the 6.5 x 55 AI.
I use a switch barrel and can swap barrels in about 8 minutes.
If I had to have one gun to shoot from 300 to 1,000 yards I would use the 6.5 x 47 L.
wade
For 300 yards always the 6mm Dasher
For 600 yards unless the wind is ripping the 6mm Dasher
For 600 yards when the wind is ripping the 6.5 x 47 L
At 800, 900, and 1,000 yards the 6.5 x 47 L unless there is a decent wind then I grab the 6.5 x 55 AI.
I use a switch barrel and can swap barrels in about 8 minutes.
If I had to have one gun to shoot from 300 to 1,000 yards I would use the 6.5 x 47 L.
wade
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
The straight .284 is a great starting point. It has won at least 2 national championships and I have used it to a top five placement.
Great bullets, moderate recoil, easy to reload.
Remember, more speed does not always equate to better accuracy.
The straight .284 is a great starting point. It has won at least 2 national championships and I have used it to a top five placement.
Great bullets, moderate recoil, easy to reload.
Remember, more speed does not always equate to better accuracy.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWRichmond</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting a .300WSM in matches, could do better ballistically with a 7WSM. When I rebarrel the .300 WSM, though, it will be reborn as another .300 WSM. Have a .308 in the same config that I use for practice. Stuck mentally in .30 caliber. Yes, I'm over 35.
Playing right now with a cheapo .300WM (used 110FP) that weighs only about 15#. Going to work up a Berger 230 OTM load for it and try it in tactical matches. Already tried the 225 Hornadys and it kicks pretty good with the heavies.
I'm not really distracted anymore by moderate recoil. Yes, I'm over 35.
</div></div>
Been wanting to try the OTMs. Let us know how they do.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: SWRichmond</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Shooting a .300WSM in matches, could do better ballistically with a 7WSM. When I rebarrel the .300 WSM, though, it will be reborn as another .300 WSM. Have a .308 in the same config that I use for practice. Stuck mentally in .30 caliber. Yes, I'm over 35.
Playing right now with a cheapo .300WM (used 110FP) that weighs only about 15#. Going to work up a Berger 230 OTM load for it and try it in tactical matches. Already tried the 225 Hornadys and it kicks pretty good with the heavies.
I'm not really distracted anymore by moderate recoil. Yes, I'm over 35.
</div></div>
Been wanting to try the OTMs. Let us know how they do.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
would a .204 ruger legal for F open? It could be fun up to 600 yds.
would a .204 ruger legal for F open? It could be fun up to 600 yds.
Re: What's your favorite round for shooting F-Class?
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would a .204 ruger legal for F open? It could be fun up to 600 yds. </div></div>
There is not a minimum caliber requirement that I know of as long as it's safe at the target. The David vs Goliath thing can be fun, but that may be taking it too far.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: attherange</div><div class="ubbcode-body">would a .204 ruger legal for F open? It could be fun up to 600 yds. </div></div>
There is not a minimum caliber requirement that I know of as long as it's safe at the target. The David vs Goliath thing can be fun, but that may be taking it too far.
