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Sidearms & Scatterguns Why you DON'T like Glock.

Bronco said:
The STI I run is as close to 100% as is possible for anything mechanical. There is a reason most of the top IPSC and 3 Gun competitors run STI, SVI, or some form of a 1911. You will see the rare Glock in the top 20, it's usually the same guy that is dedicated to the Glock (sponsored). As you can tell by my post I'm talking comps. It is a good cheap entry level pistol for those wanting to compete, most move on if they get serious.

The reload statement was a reply to the poster that he'd never heard you shouldn't shoot reloads in a Glock, owners manual backs up my statement.
Click to expand...

Again, the manual states so because the company's legal divisions want them to cover their asses. Look up virtually all manufacturer's manuals and they will say the same thing as it limits their liability if some dumbass blows their weapon up from shitty reloads. It has nothing to do with the firearm not being able to shoot them.

And yes, for competitions a lot of guys run the 1911 platform for a large number of reasons. Most of the top performing guys are running them due to the high degree of customization that is possible to match the gun to the shooter's preferences. If you want to claim that your STI is as close to 100% as possible mechanically and are suggesting in any way that it is superior to the Glock, then I cannot honestly take anything you say as being serious. All guns are going to have malfunctions if you shoot them enough, but the 1911 design does not lend itself well to long term reliability compared to the likes of the Glock and other modern day service pistols. Guys who cling to the notion that the 1911 is the holy grail of pistols are make me laugh.

But hey, all of this is just the rantings of a guy who still prefers shooting the 1911 over the Glock. But at the end of the day, I carry a Glock for work because I know which one will be more likely to work when shit actually counts.
 
Bronco said:
The reload statement was a reply to the poster that he'd never heard you shouldn't shoot reloads in a Glock, owners manual backs up my statement.
Click to expand...

Owners manual is lawyer CYA. I was wondering if there was an actual reason you had heard. Obviously no real reason not to as many do.
 
Bronco said:
The STI I run is as close to 100% as is possible for anything mechanical. There is a reason most of the top IPSC and 3 Gun competitors run STI, SVI, or some form of a 1911. You will see the rare Glock in the top 20, it's usually the same guy that is dedicated to the Glock (sponsored). As you can tell by my post I'm talking comps. It is a good cheap entry level pistol for those wanting to compete, most move on if they get serious.

The reload statement was a reply to the poster that he'd never heard you shouldn't shoot reloads in a Glock, owners manual backs up my statement.
Click to expand...

Page 8 of my XDm owners manual states "Old or reloaded ammunition may cause damage to the firearm and/or injure you or others. Use only clean, dry, original, high-quality, commercially manufactured ammunition. Using reloaded ammunition may void the warranty."

I'd venture a guess that every manufacture has a similar statement for two reasons:

1) Lawyers
2) Idiots
 
I will what I perceive to be assets first:
Reputation for toughness
Availability of parts, both OEM & after-market
Magazines are plentiful for all most popular models

Liabilities:
Grip is just the most awful feeling grip I have ever tried to use
Trigger (don't like the center safety thingie at all)
Poly mags
frame flex
poly guide rod
Unsupported chamber

My favorite of poly/striker fired pistols is M&P. I own several and they are what I trust and shoot best with. I own 9mm, 40S&W and 45 ACP; would have 10mm if they made one. M&P is a better engineered and much more serviceable for the long haul, high round count user. Plus, you can buy them for the same or often times less money. Only downside has been magazine availability and that is getting much better.
 
CMH said:
What do you consider a high round user?
Click to expand...

I have encountered M&Ps with over 70,000 rounds still able to serve. One particular, a 40S&W, with 72,000 plus rounds(range rental/CCW training gun) and no recoil spring change (should be done every 5,000 or one year) and minimal cleaning. Yes, it finally broke. Sear housing was gummed up from carbon and one frame rail had a chip broken off. The chip had broken of at, according to the owner, about 60,000 rounds but they kept shooting the pistol until it would no longer go bang. We were able to replace the Sear housing and that fixed both the frame rail and non-firing issue. The pistol is still in service at a range in TN.
M&P frame rails are not molded into the frame (easily replaced) and are engineered to be able to maintain function is a piece breaks off.
 
1. You have to spend more than what you paid for to make it a good weapon.

2. I don't like the sight hold over.

3. It doesn't fit comfortably in my big hands.

4. The angle you hold it at feels strange.

5. Once you have modified it to be a good weapon you could have just bought an H&K or S&W PC and had a better weapon.
 
shoot4fun said:
I have encountered M&Ps with over 70,000 rounds still able to serve. One particular, a 40S&W, with 72,000 plus rounds(range rental/CCW training gun) and no recoil spring change (should be done every 5,000 or one year) and minimal cleaning. Yes, it finally broke. Sear housing was gummed up from carbon and one frame rail had a chip broken off. The chip had broken of at, according to the owner, about 60,000 rounds but they kept shooting the pistol until it would no longer go bang. We were able to replace the Sear housing and that fixed both the frame rail and non-firing issue. The pistol is still in service at a range in TN.
M&P frame rails are not molded into the frame (easily replaced) and are engineered to be able to maintain function is a piece breaks off.
Click to expand...

I get your point about the molded in frame rails. That is particularly a problem for .40 glocks were owners do not understand preventative maintenance. I have seen a few rear frame rails sheer off on gen 3 glock 40sw guns. I have some of the pictures on my phone. Like the m&p above these guns were not(despite my insistence) regularly serviced. The round count was unknown. Unlike the m&p above the guns needed to be replaced. I haven't seen a 9mm glock do the same thing. my experience with glock is almost exclusively related to gen 3 guns so I can not comment on gen 4 guns.

However, There is no reason that any users that consider themselves any type of gun savy to not replace parts at the appropriate intervals. If someone Drove a truck around on the factory oil until it failed it wouldn't tell me anything useful about the truck, but i would learn something about the owner. I get that a pistol is not a truck, but They kept a round count, yet did not replace parts. What was the purpose of the round count? how did they manage to keep an accurate count on a rental pistol?

Either way once you get past 50,000 rounds a serious user should consider retiring the gun for training only. Let's assume that you find the pistol for 500usd and have to pay 10% tax and a 25usd background check. That is 575 otd. Across 50,000rounds that means that pistol cost you 1.15 cents per round fired. Not counting any replacement parts in that time which are least expensive for the glock. make it to 60,000 and it drops to less than a penny. Join gssf and you get one pistol a year at blue label pricing. If you manage to find 9mm for 15usd per box of 50 it works out to 15,000usd for the lot of 50,000. Not to mention any other fees(range fees, class fees, etc) you would incur during the process of shooting that ammo. Chances are if you can afford to shoot 50,000 rounds, Somewere during that time you managed to get together 575 dollars. All currently available pistols can fail and the likelihood grows exponentially as round counts increase. You are not in the military, so there is no reason for you to shoot wornout weapons that have been maintained by an ASVAB waiver. Choosing to do so is asinine.
 
I agree with your assessment that guns that are used by those in harm's way should be properly maintained and replaced at certain intervals of use. Most people never fire 70,000 rounds in their lifetime much less thru one firearm. Also agree with assessment of 40S&W round. It can be a gun killer if proper maintenance is not performed.
My example was made to support my pro-M&P reasons.
As for Glocks, I know the mags have steel liners. I was not aware they had gone to steel guide rods. I should maybe go out and look at all the latest versions of striker fired guns, especially the new one from Sig but my mind is made up as long as M&P continues to serve me as it has.
 
I have no problems with Glock. I carry a G23 Gen 4 everyday during the winter. I also like 1911s, Sig, SnW, Beretta lol... I tend to gravitate towards Glock and M&P mostly however.
 
There is nothing wrong with the m&p, especially if it serves you well(reliability, accurate, fits needs, etc.), replace parts when need be, and know limitations that exist. That is true for any pistol, rifle or mechanical device really.

It blows my mind that manufacturers do not make parts replacement intervals more front and center in owners manuals.
 
I'll preface this by saying the 1911 is my favorite handgun, however, it's all about the shooter...not the firearm. My G21 will shoot just as well at combat distance as any of my 1911s. If your firearm won't keep hits on a Cleet target at 50 yards there is either something wrong with you, the shooter, or the gun is broke. I can't tell you how many times I've seen guys show up for quals and complain their firearm won't shoot well. A range instructor shoots it and magically puts a nice little group on target.

Why are 1911s and single action pistols "more accurate". They aren't. It just requires more skill to shoot DA...most people don't take the time to learn that skill. The trigger is fine for a combat handgun.

The sights suck? Who leaves stock sights on a pistol? First thing I do is change them out for the night sights I like. That goes for any pistol...why pay extra for metal sights if your going to change them anyway.

Grip angle? I know plenty of people who shoot competitively with 1911s, Glocks and revolvers. No problem switching back and forth....another practice issue it sounds like.

Hard to take down? Now that's funny!

Squib load? That will happen in any gun when the ammo does this. Reloads? I doubt your going to find a main manufacturer who doesn't warn that shooting reloads may void the warranty. You certainly can shoot them though a Glock.

There are a ton of great guns out there now. No reason to shoot a Glock if you don't like it. But bashing a Glock is as pointless as saying HKs suck because their DA trigger is awful or Sigs are no good because they have a high bore axis. Pick a gun, train with it and it will serve you just fine.
 
RedTape!!!....!!! You speak the truth. I could not agree more. I love firearms in general. Everyone has likes and dislikes, and of course we all try to sway people to their own likings, but in the end we stick with what we like. That is what is so neat about this thread so far. People bashing Glocks doesn't change the fact that 65% of the world's law enforcement uses them. That alone says plenty. Look at the destruction vids on YouTube. These pistols are awesome. Who cares who's brand is better? When the shit hits the fan and one of you is kickin it with me and during a fire-fight your non-glock pistol malfunctions. ....look for me.....I will have a GLOCK you can borrow. I promise. I love them all....but choose Glock.
 
I don't like them either....... I freakin LOVE them.......

Just thought I'd show a little love........continue on with the GLOCK bashing.......
 
I've never cared for the grip angle but I've never, ever owned a more reliable pistol. You can get used to any trigger if you work at it. As far as hard to conceal??? I carry a G17 under a T shirt or camp shirt and have never have a problem with it showing. I shoot a G34 and G17L in competition and they run reliably all the time. You've got to really screw up your reloading process to get one to jam.
 
I've always said that if I have to defend my life with a pistol I hope it's a Glock.
 
Noticing a lot of people referencing nothing but cheaper (by price) polymer pistols in comparison to glocks. Doesn't seem like much of a reputable baseline if you've never owned anything over $500.
 
call_me_ski said:
There is nothing wrong with the m&p, especially if it serves you well(reliability, accurate, fits needs, etc.), replace parts when need be, and know limitations that exist. That is true for any pistol, rifle or mechanical device really.

It blows my mind that manufacturers do not make parts replacement intervals more front and center in owners manuals.
Click to expand...

Face the fact that not everyone knows as much about the mechanics or has the ability to do that part replacement. Glock has long had, and now so does S&W, a strong network of Certified Armorers in shops across the country that can take care of most customer's needs for routine service. And all the LE and Military Armorers definitely know what to do. S&W manual does have a section on how to do routine cleaning and maintenance IIRC.
 
It is fine if they do not know how to replace the parts themselves, a dealer or armorer should be able to assist them. The problem is that many don't know that parts need to be replaced as wear items to prevent larger problems at all. That knowledge allows them to seek out people who can do the work for them. Most people who shoot a lot know to replace things but I run into some shooters that don't.

As far as every .mil armorer knowing what to do, I have to disagree with that statement. I have some stories... But they are beyond the scope of this thread.

Rob01, if you look closely in the video You can see the black plastic through the long narrow spring. While the gen 4 assembly definitely contains more metal than the gen 3, the rod that runs the length of the assembly is made of plastic. This is most obvious when you to lock the slide back and look at the guide rod that is exposed beneath the barrel. It will be black plastic. I just looked earlier today at a glock 41 gen 4 and it appears to still be the case. Because of that I still view the gen 4 guns as having a plastic guide rod.
 
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Glock's "owner's manual, at least those that came w/the pistols I have, have a very express warning against shooting any reloaded ammo in their guns. Glock specifically states it will void warranty. However, I shoot the hell outa' reloads through mine without a problem! Apparently some people who reload shouldn't & are blowing up pistols!
 
After spending some time in the competition world, I've come to the conclusion that Glock reliability is a myth parroted about through the industry. Or allow me to rephrase that. It's not that Glocks aren't reliable, it's that lots of weapons are reliable. Glocks no more so than offerings from lots of other manufacturers.

All guns fail. All guns malfunction. The plethora of weapon platforms a person sees after spending time in the competitive circles means you get to see a lot of handguns run hard and fast, and rarely treated with kid gloves.

I see Glocks break and malfunction just as often as any other platform. I see them come through the shop all the time with various issues. Sometimes we can fix it, sometimes we have to bring in the local Glock rep. A good friend of mine spent 18 years with the British Army, a large portion of that as a weapons instructor, and has a Glock sponsorship. He can strip them with his eyes closed. But he has broken his several times this year alone. This spring, his 34 was slam firing every time he worked the slide. And he is just one example.

I think if anyone really took the time to study it, they would see Glocks malfunction with the same frequency as every other handgun. Certainly most folks in the competitive circles I run in would agree. Between the local ranges, you can hit a USPSA or 3 gun event pretty much every weekend within 40 minutes drive. The average USPSA event draws 50 to 70 shooters, 3 gun gets around 30 to 35. So you see an awful lot of shooting. A crapton of Glocks and STI's. I don't think one platform malfunctions any more or less than the other under these conditions. And these are guys that shoot a LOT. Hell, even one of our local law enforcement supervisors who is always in the gun shop bragging about how invincible his Glock is had a catastrophic failure a couple weeks ago. Can't wait till he comes in so can rib him about it.
 
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Feels cheap, looks like shit, doesn't fit my hand, sights are dumb, and takes a bunch of upgrades to make it anything worth shooting. It's like buying a honda civic. Sure you can make it into a mediocre race car, but it will always be a civic. Plus, all that money you put into a glock could have been spent buying a gun worth a damn in the first place.
 
Birddog6424 said:
After spending some time in the competition world, I've come to the conclusion that Glock reliability is a myth parroted about through the industry. Or allow me to rephrase that. It's not that Glocks aren't reliable, it's that lots of weapons are reliable. Glocks no more so than offerings from lots of other manufacturers.

All guns fail. All guns malfunction. The plethora of weapon platforms a person sees after spending time in the competitive circles means you get to see a lot of handguns run hard and fast, and rarely treated with kid gloves.

I see Glocks break and malfunction just as often as any other platform. I see them come through the shop all the time with various issues. Sometimes we can fix it, sometimes we have to bring in the local Glock rep. A good friend of mine spent 18 years with the British Army, a large portion of that as a weapons instructor, and has a Glock sponsorship. He can strip them with his eyes closed. But he has broken his several times this year alone. This spring, his 34 was slam firing every time he worked the slide. And he is just one example.

I think if anyone really took the time to study it, they would see Glocks malfunction with the same frequency as every other handgun. Certainly most folks in the competitive circles I run in would agree. Between the local ranges, you can hit a USPSA or 3 gun event pretty much every weekend within 40 minutes drive. The average USPSA event draws 50 to 70 shooters, 3 gun gets around 30 to 35. So you see an awful lot of shooting. A crapton of Glocks and STI's. I don't think one platform malfunctions any more or less than the other under these conditions. And these are guys that shoot a LOT. Hell, even one of our local law enforcement supervisors who is always in the gun shop bragging about how invincible his Glock is had a catastrophic failure a couple weeks ago. Can't wait till he comes in so can rib him about it.
Click to expand...

How many of these said Glocks have been tweaked for comp use? Seems to me that most (if not all) failures I have seen have been induced by the monkey running the gun.

I on the other hand have been pleased with all of my Glock firearms... my G34 gen3 has roughly 12k on it with minimal maintance performed.

To each his own, but to compare a ruger or any other similar priced polymer (besides a M&P) to a glock makes me laugh...
 
So I hate everthing about glocks. I hate how ugly they are, how they feel in my hand, the rear sight and no foward cuts on the slide for traction. I expecially hate the fact that I carry one everyday and trust it hole hearted.
It just works everytime.

Its kind of a love hate thing
 
K_4c said:
How many of these said Glocks have been tweaked for comp use? Seems to me that most (if not all) failures I have seen have been induced by the monkey running the gun.

I on the other hand have been pleased with all of my Glock firearms... my G34 gen3 has roughly 12k on it with minimal maintance performed.

To each his own, but to compare a ruger or any other similar priced polymer (besides a M&P) to a glock makes me laugh...
Click to expand...

You see a little bit of everything. It's inevitable that some weapon malfunctions are user induced, or poorly installed upgrades. But a very simple reality about the serious competitive shooter, is that they know their weapon. Far fewer monkeys in the competitive venues than what you see amongst the rank and file. I wouldn't hesitate to say the average competitor knows his weapon and is quite likely more proficient with it than the average law enforcement officer. We have some great LEO's here in the area and they take it very seriously. But they are the cream of the crop. Most often the firearms instructor for their department or members of the local special units. The average LEO shoots a small fraction as often as a moderately competitive shooter.

I'm not knocking your Glock. They are decent weapons, glad you like them. My point is that there are a lot of very good weapons out there. You would probably like some of them too. Glock is simply no better or no worse.
 
The good thing is that this has never been discussed before on this or any other gun forum...

simpsonsdidit.png


Shoot what you like and carry what you'll trust your life to. Lots of good choices out there and not everyone likes the same grip, etc. Glocks have proven to be very reliable and are trusted by many LEOs and CCW holders.

As far as gun gamers choosing 1911s...well you don't see many of them carrying their game rigs do ya? Different tool for a different job.

Also, anyone who says "because it's ugly" is a fagbag. It's a fucking gun, pussy. It needs to work not look pretty.
 
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The "hump" on the bottom 1/3 of the grip, makes for an unnatural grip angle. Also had to get the dremel out cause my middle finger rides up against the bottom of the trigger guard. Grip ergonomics leave allot to be desired. For me anyhow.
 
Birddog6424 said:
You see a little bit of everything. It's inevitable that some weapon malfunctions are user induced, or poorly installed upgrades. But a very simple reality about the serious competitive shooter, is that they know their weapon. Far fewer monkeys in the competitive venues than what you see amongst the rank and file. I wouldn't hesitate to say the average competitor knows his weapon and is quite likely more proficient with it than the average law enforcement officer. We have some great LEO's here in the area and they take it very seriously. But they are the cream of the crop. Most often the firearms instructor for their department or members of the local special units. The average LEO shoots a small fraction as often as a moderately competitive shooter.

I'm not knocking your Glock. They are decent weapons, glad you like them. My point is that there are a lot of very good weapons out there. You would probably like some of them too. Glock is simply no better or no worse.
Click to expand...

Your insight is valid and I understand where your coming from...

side note: I have owned and shot many different pistol platforms, fortunately for me, I shoot Gocks the best (afforafable). I love their simplicity (no external safety, indicators or other bs to malfunction). As long as your glock mags/clips are in serviceable condition running sufficient ammo, it's hard to beat them IMO.
 
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I am on my third round of Glocks. Started in 1992, collected 7 of them sold everyone OBR of them when I had a G23 kaboom with factory Federal ammo. Stated again in 2000, got a few of them, sold again. Started collecting again and will not sell again, now have 6 of them: 26, 19 x 2, 21SF, 30 and 30S.

All shoot fantastic, the 30S is a great pistol...so I have nothing bad to say

77Bronc
 
What I love about my Glock? Showing up to the range with my 30SF and out shooting the guy in the next lane with the full bore Les Baer 1911 (ok shameless dig at the 1911 guys. Truth be told I love me a good 1911.)

Threads like this are kind of pointless. Rule #1, have a gun. Everything after that is up to which one works best for you.
 
I must admit that I hated on polymer pistols for a long time as I grew up shooting a collection of amazing revolvers and 1911s. However, about three years ago I rented a G17 at an indoor pistol range. I shot five rounds at about five yards to see where the pistol was shooting and familiarize myself just a bit with the striker fired trigger pull. I then loaded 15 rounds and shot 14 of those 15 into a group that could be covered with my hand at 25 yards. I then tried a few other models and calibers before buying my own Gen4 G17 a couple of weeks later.

It has never failed me (only about 800 rounds through it), and my wife can shoot it much better than she can many other pistols.

It now wears a light and Trijicon night sights and sits next to the bed.

It caused me to buy an M&P 40 for when I want to carry a pistol around in the car/truck/on the ranch that I won't cry about when it gets scratched.
 
they are ugly, they all look the same and their factory sights suck. Other than that i love em all.
 
They don't point well for me.
The slide lock is too thin for my big paws to actuate (individual problem to me, I suppose)
Ergos don't work for me
Mags don't drop free (see "the Glock shake" during mag changes)

I don't have any problems with their function or reliability (though all machines do fail. "Perfection" is not a term to be applied to machinery). Glocks are inexpensive, no frills and they work. If you've chosen to use one, good for you. They just don't work for me.
 
If they would make a few minor changes:

- All steel, single action, frame mounted thumb safety, grip safety, different ergonomics, single stack magazine, barrel bushing, etc.
 
Fortunately

I am not attracted to shiny levers and buttons and such
2glock.jpg
 
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