Winchester M70

Flint62a1

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sandwarrior

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Apr 21, 2007
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Love that rifle. I shot high power with one for a few years. Definitely my favorite rifle for comps. Sadly I live in the peoples republic on new york so owning one is not going to happen anymore. Did I mention it's the one rifle I truly regret selling? sigh.....
So, if I may ask, which law outlawed that rifle in NY(that never kills anyone except in a movie)?
 
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pmclaine

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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    World tour. Was supposed to be delivered yesterday but its got to visit the country first....

    Wednesday, April 7, 2021
    6:13 PMHAVRE, MTIn transit
    6:50 AMSUTTON, NDIn transit
    Tuesday, April 6, 2021
    6:49 PMWYALUSING, TOWN OF, WIIn transit
    6:17 AMCICERO, ILIn transit
    5:17 AMCHICAGO, ILIn transit
    Monday, April 5, 2021
    7:39 AMCHICAGO, ILIn transit
    Sunday, April 4, 2021
    3:45 PMCHICAGO, ILIn transit
    Saturday, April 3, 2021
    11:55 PMCHICAGO, ILIn transit
    10:57 AMVERMILION, OHIn transit
    Friday, April 2, 2021
    10:39 PMSUSQUEHANNA TWP, PAIn transit
    10:39 AMMIDDLETOWN, CTDeparted FedEx location
    9:21 AMMIDDLETOWN, CTArrived at FedEx location
    Thursday, April 1, 2021
    6:50 PMBOYLSTON, MALeft FedEx origin facility
    5:50 PMBOYLSTON, MAArrived at FedEx location
    3:26 PMBOYLSTON, MAPicked up
    Wednesday, March 31, 2021
     

    sandwarrior

    Sergeant
    Supporter
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    Apr 21, 2007
    6,350
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    in yooperland
    World tour. Was supposed to be delivered yesterday but its got to visit the country first....

    Wednesday, April 7, 2021
    6:13 PMHAVRE, MTIn transit
    6:50 AMSUTTON, NDIn transit
    Tuesday, April 6, 2021
    6:49 PMWYALUSING, TOWN OF, WIIn transit
    6:17 AMCICERO, ILIn transit
    5:17 AMCHICAGO, ILIn transit
    Monday, April 5, 2021
    7:39 AMCHICAGO, ILIn transit
    Sunday, April 4, 2021
    3:45 PMCHICAGO, ILIn transit
    Saturday, April 3, 2021
    11:55 PMCHICAGO, ILIn transit
    10:57 AMVERMILION, OHIn transit
    Friday, April 2, 2021
    10:39 PMSUSQUEHANNA TWP, PAIn transit
    10:39 AMMIDDLETOWN, CTDeparted FedEx location
    9:21 AMMIDDLETOWN, CTArrived at FedEx location
    Thursday, April 1, 2021
    6:50 PMBOYLSTON, MALeft FedEx origin facility
    5:50 PMBOYLSTON, MAArrived at FedEx location
    3:26 PMBOYLSTON, MAPicked up
    Wednesday, March 31, 2021
    Whut... are you talking about?
     

    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
    Minuteman
  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Travels and travails of a model 70 going to visit the doc...


    Arrived in Washington State yesterday.

    @pre64win

    Do not rush......get your best guy on it, take your time, I am patient.

    I want it right whichever solution is needed to get there plug/redrill, new barrel, whatever.

    Do not toss that barrel though if changed out.....its a shooter.
     

    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
    Minuteman
  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Update....

    The fix is complete and is pretty difficult to detect. It certainly will not be visible with the blocks installed. The original holes were oversized 8-40 and then plugs were silver soldered into the holes. The new holes were completed and the barrel was reblued. We still have re-assembly to go, but here are a few photos for you from bluing day. They are not great quality, but I will get some better ones before we install the blocks. If you look close you can see a faint crescent on the top portion of the hole. This is the plug. The new holes were moved by about 0.030”.

    Before bluing

    1618692884862.png

    Coming out of the bluing tanks

    1618692935232.png

    Bluing complete (sorry about the fuzzy photo – I didn’t realize it was not in focus until I left for the weekend).

    1618692977979.png

    We will reassemble the rifle early this week and it will be ready to ship back to you within a few days.
     

    FatBoy

    After 20 years, going anonymous..
    Minuteman
    Jul 29, 2001
    1,696
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    Fingers crossed this is it. Though I appreciate the feeling of overcoming challenges and having a project finally coming together, this has been more of a Saga. Hoping this summer you just get to enjoy it for a few months before mothballing it because fucking primers are still rare as hens teeth.
     

    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
    Minuteman
  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Hi Phil.

    Your rifle is fully reassembled and ready to go. The only discrepancy in your sight and scope blocks now is the slight misalignment in the factory D&T receiver holes. They are off by ~0.004”. Everything else is confirmed true using multiple methods, including mill axis, straight edge, and laser. None of that photographs well, so we will just ship the rifle to you and let you see it with your own eyes and by putting your scope on it.


    1618925963377.png

    1618925985598.png



    Mentioned to Justin that if he does any more SnipersHide member builds and a "blueprint" is requested it might be a good idea to check the factory receiver scope drillings and if necessary plug them and redrill.

    Its not only Remington that screws that up.
     
    Last edited:

    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Only off by 4 thousandths? Excellent!


    Those are the factory drillings.

    Winchester may have built some beautiful rifles but I get the impression QC wasnt that grand.

    When it came to M1 Garands SA blew them away in the QC.

    Of course SA wasnt worried about profit, all they had to do was hit the tax payer.

    While SA constantly upgraded the product through WWII Winchester built the same M1 Garand they were contracted to build basically the initial version gas port.

    Their product shows more tooling wear and less concern for aesthetics than SA did.

    At some point I may use a conventional scope but with a Redfield base any misalignment on the scope base holes can be factored out by the adjustability in the Rear Redfield base/ring.
     

    j-huskey

    Jafo / Instigator !
    Minuteman
    Jul 27, 2001
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    With a TINY bit of alteration on the bridge mounting block and some steel bed, that .004" offset wont matter at all with your Unertl scope.
     

    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    With a TINY bit of alteration on the bridge mounting block and some steel bed, that .004" offset wont matter at all with your Unertl scope.


    Ill know immediately sliding the bases on.

    Previously and with my 03 the scope slide on easily.

    This past try it was binding and I didnt think to consider there was a scope block issue nor did I see it until I got behind the scope at the range and saw I was two target boards off.

    If the dovetails slide smoothly on to the blocks it should be close enough not to suck out all my windage.
     
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    j-huskey

    Jafo / Instigator !
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    Jul 27, 2001
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    Ill know immediately sliding the bases on.

    Previously and with my 03 the scope slide on easily.

    This past try it was binding and I didnt think to consider there was a scope block issue nor did I see it until I got behind the scope at the range and saw I was two target boards off.

    If the dovetails slide smoothly on to the blocks it should be close enough not to suck out all my windage.

    Truth.
     
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    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
    Minuteman
  • Nov 6, 2011
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    Its back!

    Looks good, love the bluing.

    Will try to get some time Saturday to get the Iron sights locked in again.
     
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    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
    Minuteman
  • Nov 6, 2011
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    So far so good.

    Of course it couldnt be perfect.

    While making my last zero setting the tiny ass set screw on the windage knob split in half so I couldnt shoot my final adjustment 1/2 minute right windage.

    Sent a message to an Ebay guy with parts hoping I can get a half dozen new ones and just replace them out. If anyone knows what the McMaster Carr equivalent would be Ill order from them.

    Rifle is trying to win but it wont.....

    Think I shot tighter with irons last time. I did use a peep with a smaller aperture this time maybe my eye prefers the slightly larger. Still though todays results were acceptable to me for irons, 100 yards and a fresh installed barrel...

    Sighting in......

    DenwhJBl.jpg


    When I went to give it 1/2 MOA right and lock it down was when the set screw failed.....next 5 would have been right where I wanted them.

    4ZIwEWtl.jpg


    May take a set screw out of my other Lyman 48 and just confirm this zero, take the sights off and get down to business with the Unertl.
     
    Last edited:

    Bigfatcock

    Major Hide Member
    Minuteman
    Jan 12, 2019
    1,527
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    I’m happy it worked out! This stuff can be frustrating, but good end results tend to make you forget the bumps along the way.
     

    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    I’m happy it worked out! This stuff can be frustrating, but good end results tend to make you forget the bumps along the way.


    Got home a cannabalized my Lyman WJS sight.

    I wanted to take one of the set screws out of the elevation knob because there are two and leave the sole one in the windage knob.

    Of course I dropped the black screw on my black floor than spent ten minutes looking for it.

    Found it under my reloading bench. Had to use a car antenna magnet to reach it.

    There are about fifty primers under there.....highest bidder can come get them.

    Got the set screw back it appears the elevation screws are different from the windage screws.

    Put the screw back in elevation, remove the windage set screw from WJS to my WH.....my WH sight is 100% again.

    Now I need to get set screw spares to fix the WJS and just have on hand as this will happen again ......maybe.

    I'll take ten rounds to confirm zero on the irons next week.

    Than I will remove them and never use them again but I will sleep soundly knowing I could if I wanted to.
     
    Last edited:

    pre64win

    Private
    Minuteman
    Jul 29, 2018
    37
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    While we're waiting for Phil to get that rifle scoped and some true testing of its accuracy, I have a question for you sniper experts. We recently acquired an unusual stock which has a very unusual combination of features.

    The butt stock is a full sized target butt with the flat steel checkered target buttplate.
    The grip is extended like a model 70 target stock.
    There is almost no drop on the stock, which is a bit like the Van Orden stocks.
    The forestock is that of a standard rifle.
    Both the grip and the forestock are checkered like a standard rifle.
    The stock is inletted for the type-III receiver (post war tapered tang) and the mag box inletting is for the standard box.
    The barrel channel fits the medium-heavy (target) barrel contour.
    The checkering panels are the early 1950s large layout and cut in the prewar pitch of 21 LPI.

    I initially though this stock must be a target stock that was modified by being narrowed in the front and then checkered, but then I realized it has no holes at all for any swivels, hand-stop rail, or a barrel screw.

    It fits the description of the “sniper match” stock in Rule's book, but this is a description without a photo and I can't seem to find anything online about this particular non-cataloged stock configuration. Another model 70 expert I reached out to who once worked at Winchester in the 1960s said this is the kind of stock used on Hathcock’s rifles. It is clearly not a military sniper config, so any connection to the White Feather would have to be during his time on the national rifle team.

    Have any of you ever seen anything like this?


    181670029_3026203477600805_4813589797199010498_n.jpg
    180993325_3026203480934138_5960689670296503497_n.jpg
    181415921_3026203484267471_733705320363100267_n.jpg
     

    Charger442

    Sergeant
    Minuteman
  • Nov 2, 2010
    2,115
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    While we're waiting for Phil to get that rifle scoped and some true testing of its accuracy, I have a question for you sniper experts. We recently acquired an unusual stock which has a very unusual combination of features.

    The butt stock is a full sized target butt with the flat steel checkered target buttplate.
    The grip is extended like a model 70 target stock.
    There is almost no drop on the stock, which is a bit like the Van Orden stocks.
    The forestock is that of a standard rifle.
    Both the grip and the forestock are checkered like a standard rifle.
    The stock is inletted for the type-III receiver (post war tapered tang) and the mag box inletting is for the standard box.
    The barrel channel fits the medium-heavy (target) barrel contour.
    The checkering panels are the early 1950s large layout and cut in the prewar pitch of 21 LPI.

    I initially though this stock must be a target stock that was modified by being narrowed in the front and then checkered, but then I realized it has no holes at all for any swivels, hand-stop rail, or a barrel screw.

    It fits the description of the “sniper match” stock in Rule's book, but this is a description without a photo and I can't seem to find anything online about this particular non-cataloged stock configuration. Another model 70 expert I reached out to who once worked at Winchester in the 1960s said this is the kind of stock used on Hathcock’s rifles. It is clearly not a military sniper config, so any connection to the White Feather would have to be during his time on the national rifle team.

    Have any of you ever seen anything like this?


    View attachment 7617777
    View attachment 7617778
    View attachment 7617779

    That butt plate says Winchester 52, to me. My 1937 Winchester 70 sporter stock has a completely different butt plate.
     
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    pre64win

    Private
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    Jul 29, 2018
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    That butt plate says Winchester 52, to me. My 1937 Winchester 70 sporter stock has a completely different butt plate.
    It's definitely a model 70 stock - It has inletting for the tapered tang of a type-III model 70 receiver, the forward action screw hole goes into the ring not the lug, and the bottom metal inletting is model 70. The buttplate is the same as a model 70 target rifle.
     
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    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    @cplnorton

    This is a pretty unique stock.

    Target butt with Sporter fore end.

    Any records of shooters on the USMC teams specifying such an animal?

    Hoping to get shooting Wednesday or Thursday.
     
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    j-huskey

    Jafo / Instigator !
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    Jul 27, 2001
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    I've had two target stocks that were altered into that shape. Being target stocks, they werent checkered to begin with, and after alteration, were oil finished. They had the sling point holes like the target stock, although the handstop inlet was gone when the forearm was reshaped.
    They were altered by a now deceased AMU smith who had a number of 70's and two Van Ordens. Several of his 70's and the two Van Ordens live with the caretaker who buried him several years ago.
    No real clue where he got the idea to alter those stocks.
    I wish he was still here to ask, RIP MSgt Gerald R. "Old Hook" Boutin. He did three tours in RVN one with the 9th Inf Div Sniper School. His commander on that trip was Lones Wigger who died in 2017. I wonder if Deena still has any of his guns/papers/memorabilia which could shed light on this. Dont know if she would .....
    I dont know anybody from that team is left alive to ask.
    Those two altered stocks were my favorite m70 stocks... damn a divorce.

    Hope Cpl. Norton can give us some info.

    I've sent the pics to an old former US Customs agent/gunsmith (who worked out of building 4 on Benning when Hook was at AMU) who has the biggest collection of m70's I've ever seen, and who helped me recover some of my lost to divorce items.. waiting to hear from him. Will let yall know if he responds.
     
    Last edited:

    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
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  • Nov 6, 2011
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    No front or rear sling swivel mounts pretty much preclude USMC target use.


    Looks like a brand new stock, possibly never mounted with a rifle.

    Possible they left the swivels up to the preference of the shooter?

    Rifle without a sling :(
     

    rth1800

    Two Star General
    Minuteman
  • Sep 16, 2009
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    For benchrest shooting there would be no advantage to modifying the original target pattern to a field pattern or checkering it.

    I have had some factory target stocks modified like that with sling swivels for deer culling.

    The first one I did myself and it was crude. Left rear alone. Pre war 30/06 clip slotted rifle. Shot out. Set barrel back 3”, threaded and capped muzzle, chambered to .308. Sweated swivel base on barrel. Oil finish and placed 6x Unertl. Shot out again. Set back and got another 2500 rds. Then someone bought it. In retrospect, it was my most effective culling rifle. More use and more usable.
     

    pmclaine

    Gunny Sergeant
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  • Nov 6, 2011
    24,101
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    For benchrest shooting there would be no advantage to modifying the original target pattern to a field pattern or checkering it.

    I have had some factory target stocks modified like that with sling swivels for deer culling.

    The first one I did myself and it was crude. Left rear alone. Pre war 30/06 clip slotted rifle. Shot out. Set barrel back 3”, threaded and capped muzzle, chambered to .308. Sweated swivel base on barrel. Oil finish and placed 6x Unertl. Shot out again. Set back and got another 2500 rds. Then someone bought it. In retrospect, it was my most effective culling rifle. More use and more usable.


    How do you sleep at night having dealt so much death?


    @cplnorton where are you?

    We need you to whip out the National Archives receipt for 12 of these bought by one "C. Hathlock".

    Yes the name will be close but not correct and we will go on wondering.......
     
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    CMP70306

    Private
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    Feb 16, 2017
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    On the note of the marksman stock does anyone know what size and thread pitch the hand stop requires? I wanted to try and adapt a rail to mine so I can shoot off a bipod rather than a front rest.
     

    rth1800

    Two Star General
    Minuteman
  • Sep 16, 2009
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    I don’t know the pitch but I think I have extra screws and handstops.
     

    rth1800

    Two Star General
    Minuteman
  • Sep 16, 2009
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    Phil,
    No guilt at all. I miss most of my shots.😁
    Actually a lot of my rounds were spent playing around shooting groups and shooting in the wind. I learned a lot with that rifle.
     
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