Which of these would you recommend for someone primarily shooting 75 ELDs and 77 TMK? Can load up to 2.6" COAL.
- Thread starter Lawnboi
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I recommend the .100” fb for hand loaders and the .062” fb for guys shooting factory.
Why? I load 75 ELDs at .020” off at 2.470” and the bullet is in a great place in the neck. No way I would want another .040” added to the freebore. Maybe if shooting 90s but in the 75/77 the Wylde is a better choice in my opinion.
By increasing the volume of the case you can achieve higher MV at the same pressure.
You aren’t gaining that much more volume to get anymore velocity. All you are doing it seating the bullet out farther and have to go farther still to chase lands over the life.
That 75 ELD is sitting in a perfect spot with the Wylde.
How much more volume are you achieving?
What velocity and psi were you getting prior? What velocity and psi are you getting after?
You're going to need a significant increase to make it worth losing .038 of your throat over the life of the barrel.
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From prior looking it seemed volume behind the bullet when it encounters resistance from the lands has a bigger impact on pressure than volume in the case with a bullet seated. Good example is weatherby having long ass throats even though most ammo was jumping a mile - it didnt matter, the goal is to be able to burn more powder at the same pressure to get more velocity.
Also, if it's sitting perfect with a 75 ELD, it probably is seated a little deep with 77 TMK.
Thanks for the input @BenE the answer is what i suspected. 0.100" doesn't even seem that long given that the dedicated 223 fclass guys use substantially longer yet i know. I don't much care about chasing lands anyway but a hair more velocity from factory ammo in a wylde chamber might be nice.
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Those F Class guys are probably shooting 90s. Something to think about.
For reference here is a 77 TMK next to a 75 ELD-M. The .100" should work with the ogive being farther forward on the TMK.
Does anyone know if Josh left PVA?
I sent him an email a few weeka ago about a prefit.
Tried calling too
I sent him an email a few weeka ago about a prefit.
Tried calling too
For what ever reason I cant send him a message
Josh has always said to email or call and that he doesn't take messages here. Ben is the one who is usually active here from PVA.
Josh is PVA. LOL @bohem figured I would tag him again in case he missed the other but he was in here earlier.
Hoping to get the deets on the 7-6.5 PRC chambers. Is the freebore diameter, freebore length, and lead angle optimized to seat Berger 180gr VLD projectiles above the donut / shoulder/neck junction? By my calculations, which occurred after drinking a bunch of whiskey so may include error, COAL: 3.021" / cartridge base to ogive: 2.537" would be the minimum specs to get the projectile's base bearing surface right at the base of the neck/shoulder junction. I think you'd want it longer than this though to actually prevent the donuts, right? What's PVA's chamber allowing?
We've made several. It's not that common but we have done them, only one really had issues and it was the first prefit we made off what turned out to be an erroneous print. Since that was remedied several years back we haven't had a single complaint.
Our standard chamber is setup with freebore that will let you run 162-175's in a SA mag, which is known to be short for some of the heavier 7's out there. Medium and Long Action setups typically are something you want to have custom throated.
You're likely on the money with that calculation but what we do for folks that want to shoot a specific bullet is to throat to dummy rounds loaded with that bullet. We ask for 3 because we check each one to make sure things are consistent (I had a guy send in 3 dummy rounds which were 0.050" apart across the 3 one time).
I'm still here, working like crazy and not spending much time on forums. The phone only rings from 8:55am-3:05pm, outside of that you get routed to a VM that basically says "call back during 9-3 hours"
Ben had a family emergency last week that ran into Monday so I was alone in the shop for a bit. I got to as many phone calls as possible but I ignored emails most of the week just to keep work above board. We don't do messages on here because folks ask for changes in PM's even when I tell them not to do it. It turns into hurt feelings/miscommunications so I had to turn off incoming PM's.
What can I help with?
Black Friday?
Starts on 11/15 and runs through 12/1
It will include prefits in SS and Carbon, not blanks. Hunting and match bullets are on the list, small parts are on the list (just like prior sales).
Sale discounts will include certain prefits and options, it won't be a totally open list.
We do have more 7mm Ospreys on hand than typical in order to better support the market for 7 PRC and several others that have become very popular this year.
I'm finishing up fluting projects that are lingering right now so we will be all caught up for the sale and folks will have the option for regular, fluted, and carbon wrapped.
All of our carbon blanks are now being wrapped by Hells Canyon Armory and we are bringing a second contour to market as part of the Black Friday sale. They've been doing a killer job on the wrap in both quality and delivery, which been a huge help in us being able to expand that line of products.
Upcoming things:
In 2024 we will be offering a limited lineup of AR barrels for both small and large pattern, including 22 and 6mm ARC as well as some other more esoteric wildcats used for smacking song dogs. Testing program is nearing completion now and we're seeing sub half MOA at 600yd with the 22 ARC shooting our 75 TAC bullet around 3200fps (it's a trajectory twin to a 6 Creed shooting 107 SMK's)
We are also going to be able to offer a direct OEM drop in for Ruger Americans and a barrel nut that will use the factory contours.
Hunting stuff:
We have 350 and 358 Legend reamers as well as barrel blanks for 350 Legend on the shelf. The 358's we are trying to source currently as it's not something we expect to make for Ospreys in the near term. Odds and ends orders have been filled with Douglass barrels and they shoot really nicely, but a regular supply of 358 blanks has been hard to nail down.
We have 450 Bushmaster and 458 Win Mag blanks on hand for folks in straight wall states. I have load data for my personal 450 BM and the 300gr Arrowhead bullets that I used last year to take several does beyond 500 yd.
So, for those folks in straight wall states, we have you covered to be able to take 500-1100 yard shots on animals that normally would be well out of range. As someone showed a page or two ago, the SML's we are making kick ass. The same blanks that are being used for SML's are also used for the 458 Win Mag and a sister barrel is used for the 450 BM's. Typical performance from the 450 BM's is just under MOA at 400 with Hornady Black ammo in the 250 FTX lineup. With handloads they shoot sub MOA at 700yd.
Handloads with the ASG 300 NSR run similar trajectory to a 150 class bullet in a 308. It's not a wind cheater, but it's a lot more capable than Pap's ol' 45-70 lobbing 405 cast lead.
Aw sad I have an eccentric/uncommon prefit need that you handle.
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Do you have a rough estimate of when you'll complete a batch of those CDM prefits in 6GT? I'm on order #14163 from this summer.
I'd rather wait for everything to be done right, so not trying to rush you, just looking for an updated ETA estimate so that I can make a decision on fitting a different barrel in the meantime.
Thanks!
Sorry for the delay, it shipped today.
Sweet! Thank you very much! Got the shipping notification and am excited to test this one out.
No 8 flute for Black Friday?
I cut off some of the more esoteric options that don't get ordered normally just to keep the lead time on things reasonable.
@bohem im ordering a 223 Barrel for my Seekins Havik HIT. Is it recommend to get 062 or 100 FB. I will shoot 75gr to 88gr bullets.
I would suggest the 100
The 062 is the same as the Wylde chamber that is popular for AR's shooting 75 class bullets.
I've another question now after looking into this more.. 223 Rem SAAMI min neck diameter is 0.2550 (shoulder) tapering to 0.2540" (case mouth). Wylde is 0.2568" tapering to 0.2558". My LC loaded brass has neck diameter of 0.253"ish. Wouldn't a SAAMI min neck diameter be tighter than ideal on that? What is the neck diameter on each of the PVA reamers?
We use straight necks at 0.256 for bolt guns.
It works fantastic, many people have this chamber in bolt guns from us and they're shooting extremely well.
No hunting weight contour barrels in the sale, is that just because they take longer to contour? Low demand?
Longer cutting time, very low demand, confusion as to what threads can go on a hunting contour at what length. It turns into hurt feelings sometimes...I can add a size easily enough to the website, which I would say is a #5 at the lightest, this way threads can be added to avoid that issue.
ETA: I added the #5 Brux
On another note:
The launch sale of an affordable, highly accurate barreled action is now on:
Now that I have secured a supply of the Solus receivers we can confidently offer barreled actions for a killer price tag. Yes, Aero offers a barreled action as well for the same baseline price. They do not offer it with our level of barrel quality, nor do they offer anything customization on caliber, contour, length or finish options.
This pricing will be set until Dec 31st at which time we will evaluate it based on the potential price increases looming from Aero and many other places in the industry.
With factory 140 ELDM and 120 GMX ammo it shoots sub MOA at 355 and 600 yards just dropping it into a KRG bravo and throwing a spare scope on top.
Projected lead times are in the product description.
I appreciate a smaller contour, and will buy more. My 3B 22 creed is great.Longer cutting time, very low demand, confusion as to what threads can go on a hunting contour at what length. It turns into hurt feelings sometimes...I can add a size easily enough to the website, which I would say is a #5 at the lightest, this way threads can be added to avoid that issue.
ETA: I added the #5 Brux
On another note:
The launch sale of an affordable, highly accurate barreled action is now on:
Now that I have secured a supply of the Solus receivers we can confidently offer barreled actions for a killer price tag. Yes, Aero offers a barreled action as well for the same baseline price. They do not offer it with our level of barrel quality, nor do they offer anything customization on caliber, contour, length or finish options.
This pricing will be set until Dec 31st at which time we will evaluate it based on the potential price increases looming from Aero and many other places in the industry.
With factory 140 ELDM and 120 GMX ammo it shoots sub MOA at 355 and 600 yards just dropping it into a KRG bravo and throwing a spare scope on top.
Projected lead times are in the product description.
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The #5 brux is very similar to the 3B
I'm sure there's lots of dudes who dont get the basics of required shoulder for threads so I can understand trying to avoid the headache. That said, you create a lot more confusion by not contouring sporter weight barrels to a consistent contour spec. I can calculate barrel weight and what muzzle diameter would be at a given length looking at a contour spec but that isn't worth much if the contour spec isn't followed.
I would have ordered a barrel or more by now but the contours offered are too heavy for what I want in hunting rifles. Benchmark #4 or bartlein 2b-3 would be great. Bet you'd sell a fair bit of Tikka lite clone contours too.
Maybe it's just a matter of calling someone to talk through it if you don't offer it on the drop down options but figured a bunch of people doing that just messes up your work flow.
I'm not sure what you mean "not contouring... to a consistent contour spec". We cut a contour and stick to it, like a Brux #5 program hasn't ever changed. We answer the phone all day during phone hours for everything from a simple question of "I see my package is delayed by UPS, do you know why" all the way to discussing in detail how to best load our bullets (even when the FAQ's page isn't read first), etc.
Are you suggesting we just make only a Brux #2 or #3 or #4 but not making a Bartlien 3B? I can't help that Brux defines a #3 differently than Bartlien does.
We always target 6-8 weeks for the custom work on the sale. About 95% of the orders placed last year were filled in that window, there were a couple oddballs that ran closer to 10.
I don't know how you do your contours, just that the dimensions shared by people who have your prefits indicate that they don't follow the bartlein spec, they might change based on barrel finish length, and don't seem to be the same for each order. Examples from one thread on rokslide:
Bartlein says their 3b contour finishes @ 0.70 @ 26", the below barrel was 0.720+
In the same thread, there are two pictures of 3b PVA prefits. One finished @ 16" measures 0.709" @ behind the thread shoulder and another finished @ 16.5" measures 0.754" behind the thread shoulder. Based off of bartlein's 3b spec, it should be around 0.80" at 16". None of the 3 barrels of which dimensions were shared actually match the bartlein 3b spec and they don't seem to match each other either.
My point was that if you followed the printed barrel spec regardless of length a customer could figure out where they are going to land for muzzle diameter. Not saying you wouldn't have people unable to use their brains and figure it out but at least they could calc finish length.
No, not suggesting discontinuing bartlein 3b, just that another contour that is lighter yet would be more attractive to hunter sales. Personally i really like a benchmark #4 because in the first 6" it tapers down a little quicker then has a slower taper to the muzzle so it shaves weight but maintains enough diameter for some threads.
Oh I see what you're talking about. Making it consistently sized at the muzzle was something done years back to account for problems we had with a previous barrel supplier that had a ton of curvature in the bore. We would get a contoured blank at full length, cut it down to 20" and the eccentricity of the ID/OD relationship caused some people on this forum to have a tantrum (literally, one guy called me screaming obscenities about it, then posted it on here). Cutting to length and then contouring gets rid of this problem but it also creates the situation where the contours aren't all the same size unless it's very close to full length. Sort of a damned one way, damned another issue.
The Ospreys are drilled with much higher pressure cutting fluid than the prior supplier and that issue is basically non-existent now. I can easily enough go back to contouring at full length and then chopping them off. Nobody's brought it up to me so I haven't thought about it. I'm not much of a short barrel guy personally so I didn't consider it either.
For the bolded I don't think he would sell as many as you think. T3x lite contours on 6.5 and bigger bores are too small for 9/16-24 thread shoulders and the bore is too big for 1/2-28 threads.
For your information this is what I measured off of mine.
Legend: .dia {distance from muzzle} (barrel length)
.616 {0} (24.33)
.620 {1.358} (23)
.630 {2.57} (21.75)
.640 {3.81} (20.5)
.650 {5.05} (19.25)
.660 {6.27} (18.06)
Recommended od for 9/16 shoulder .662 {6.625} (17.7)
0.673 {8.08} (16.25)Beyond this point has to be registered as an SBR
At front of tupperware 0.711 {13.33} (11)
Recommended od for 5/8 0.725 {15} (9.33)
Finally shot out my PVA Rock Creek prefit and got a chance to put on the Osprey that I picked up from the FFTC sale. Ran 50 rounds through it on Tuesday, using a good shooting load from the last barrel and it didn't disappoint. Conditions were miserable, still managed to shoot small groups and hammer that 1/4 IPSC at 600 yards. The Ospreys seem to shoot just as well as the Rock Creek prefits so I'm sold. At this point, all 3 or 4 of my PVA prefits have shot identical, sub 1/2 minute when they're fresh and near the end open up to about 3/4 minute. Plenty good for most uses.
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Glad you like it so far, the Osprey will continue to get better.
Fair point. I like having bigger threads too but a number of OEMs even go 1/2x28 on 30 cals. GAP put 1/2" threads on the 6.5 SAUM extreme hunter. I'm about to have my second tikka lite contour done with 9/16 threads @ 18" which lines up with your #'s above but these are just .224 and .264 bores.
Ways to deal with the lack of diameter for threads:
-I don't know how hard this would be for PVA but a "Tikka Lite Threaded" contour that kept the sporter contour but sharply flared to have a 0.725" shoulder at specified finish length would be great. Picture barret fieldcraft 18" threaded barrels for reference. I would pay an upcharge for this over a standard contour.
-I've seen mention of ADCO or others putting shoulder on barrels without sufficient meat for desired threads and TBAC putting face mount adapters for their cans to address this as well. I'm not well versed in how this works but could be standard for anyone wanting 5/8" threads on a lite contour at an upcharge.
-PBB is doing is the "lite hybrid" which basically has the tikka contour until it hits 0.725" diameter (9.33" based on your #'s) and then it's no taper until the muzzle. This is going to obviously be heavier than the lite but still light enough to meet many hunter's weight goals on shorter barrels. I'd rather buy an osprey than a PBB.
The other thing is it wouldn't have to be a tikka lite contour. a rem mag sporter, bartlein 2b, benchmark #3, etc would all be cool too.
Makes sense, thanks for the explanation. Part of it is that it seems my current primary interest is at the opposite end of the spectrum - shorter light contour barrels for hunting with a suppressor. You have a better picture of market demand than I do but this feels like a growing segment in the custom rifle/prefit barrel world.
I have a standard option called "Custom Contour (Contact Us)" you can use to make whatever you'd like, that might work?
I just received my new 6 CM Defiance Prefit barrel from Josh. It looks fantastic. I should have taken some more time to discuss the "Custom Contour" option though. I wanted a fairly short barrel that was suppressor friendly, with enough shoulder with 5/8 threads. Decided to go with Light Palma finished at .750 and it turned out weighing 51 oz. in its 20" configuration. This is probably a perfect weight for most, but a bit heavy for my use case, ie. mountain hunting. Was hoping to be in the 38-43 oz. range.
@bohem, do you think that weight would be possible with another contour, while still maintaining .720 shoulder with 5/8 threads for a suppressor?
@bohem, do you think that weight would be possible with another contour, while still maintaining .720 shoulder with 5/8 threads for a suppressor?
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We've done that before, and it's easy enough to continue doing. The feedback on it from several people was that it's ugly (and I don't disagree). Where we cover it on the website is "Custom Contour (Contact Us)"
Im one of the ones that probably caused headaches with my 16.5” 3B 22 creed, though I went 1/2” on the muzzle. I also had questions and called to confirm when ordering the barrel, but either way it ended up a little heavier up front.
Having an option for a lighter contour with reasonable shoulder diameter would keep me coming back.
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