I’ll take 200

kalashnikev said:

Get scared though... everyone should be pissing their pants right now...

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That sounds hot!

RUN8 said:

I’m tempted to do it, just to make you guys throw up in your mouth a little bit.

Only hesitation is I don’t know if I want those shady bastards to have any of my personal info or credit card.

I’ll get a gift card maybe, and buy one.

Then do accuracy testing in my AI and an M4.

Then leave a glowing review on their site that will look like it was written by a bot using incorrect terminology for everything.

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Make sure you get “verified purchaser” by your review

338LM_Sniper said:

Knights Manufacturing Company (Vero Beach) 1993 SR25 Match Rifle. All Black with no white lettering Military Match model with the 24” OberMeyer Match Barrel. Super Accurate.

View attachment 8682176View attachment 8682177

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I’ll give you one of my stone laden kidneys for that.

Nah... I just used Jihad al Qalam to vanquish your fakeness and bullshit.

shlouf said:

Thanks. Was thinking of starting with RL15 and tac and maybe tinkering with 4831. Have plenty of varget and h4350 if it doesn’t pan

Anyone have some leftover 145 lrx or 150 ABLRs they tried and aren’t using? Can’t bring myself to pay that much for test boxes when I have a pile of 150 eldx already

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145LRX and varget has been a very accurate combo for me. They just need more jump that the ELD

Did ZCO fix the illumination (and did they whack you or was the price fair) is what we need to know..?

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I'm really wanting to know this. What a company is legally bound to do vs what they will do actually says a lot about them to me.

Vortex gen 3 scopes cost significantly less to manufacture. In fact, Vortex can afford to replaced them a few times and still break even.

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This is likely a bit more due to the cost of manufacture in Japan vs Europe. Compare the prices of grand pianos from Yamaha and Shigeru Kawai to Hamburg Steinway, Fazioli, and Petrof, and you'll see similar cost differences. Same with Seiko watch movements and ETA movements from Europe.

I still think the ZCO is likely better designed and made, but the ease of replacement is likely more due to geographical costs. I bet ZCO could do the same if they made their scopes out of Japan too, and the quality wouldn't be wildly different.

I find it interesting that a company can invest so much time in R&D and still have the gas block contacting the handguard. Like WTF guys no one just looked in there and said damn thats a little close...I have a feeling mine might have the same issue but haven't pulled it apart yet. Overall I kinda regret selling my JP upper to get this one.

Are you guys having issues with standard. 750 Adjustable Gas Blocks? Or with .875?

More illiterate stroke-jobs who don't know what "Jihad" means.

Get scared though... everyone should be pissing their pants right now...

J_D said:

You can always go Vudoo and wait indefinitely.........

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Found one last week. On its way to my FFL in CA .

CK1.0 said:

Fair.

Vortex is so good with their customer service and warranty stuff, that with everyone else it can almost seem like we're getting less for our money (sometimes, even when spending more).

That said, Vortex probably sells, IDK, maybe ~200,000? more scopes than companies the size of operations like ZCO or Tangent Theta.

The "alpha glass" Co's are a niche of a niche, cream of the crop fancy rifile shit for guys already deep in the rabbit hole lol, but they're ants compared to a boot-size company like Vortex who sells like 10,000 shitty red dots + 1000 Diamondback/Strike Eagle tier scopes + 20 Razors for every scope one of these smaller fancy-pants outfits move. So CS shit should be great, since they can afford it (and it appears they can judging by the free hats and stickers and shit I've received when dealing with them lol).

Economy of scale, I guess..?

I'm not trying to be an apologist for ZCO because I have/run one either, but I can wrap my head around why a smaller company wouldn't front you a shipping label if the issue is known to be outside the warranty, is all.

Leupold CS jerked me around and made me get a little loud to get a pre-paid shipping label out of them on a fresh out of the plastic scope... so clearly company-mindset and how companies choose to act matters as well.

Did ZCO fix the illumination (and did they whack you or was the price fair) is what we need to know..?

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I agree with everything you say in your post, and for the same reasons.

I'm not a Vortex fanboy, nor am I bashing ZCO. All I wanted to do is point out the written warranty differences and my experience with each brand. I've owned or still own at least a dozen Vortex scopes... there are three gen-3 Razors in my safe and I just bought a Strike Eagle 3-18x44 to stick on an AR - in no small part because of all the discounts to be had on Vortex optics, but also because they just get the job done for a very competitive price and... warranty.

To answer your question re illumination: I didn't send the scope in. I actually called about doing so not because of illumination but because my rifle fell off my cart about two feet onto a gravel drive after 2nd stage at a match. I missed a number of targets I should have hit afterward, so I wondered if I had damaged it (negligence!).

I just didn't get a good feeling during and after that call, so I took no action. The illumination kinda sorta works; it's just not bright enough to use on shaded targets in full sun and batteries die pdq. And I discovered that I had used my .223 calculator profile during the match, which is pretty darn close to the 6BR profile under 600-700 yards . The scope's tracking was and is fine.

It may well be that ZCO would have taken care of illumination gratis had I sent it in.

DBD is right about the thinner optic of the gen-3 Razor (compared to ZCO 527) being a disadvantage in some circumstances. For that exact reason, I swapped the ZCO from my 6BR to my Vudoo .22, and the Vudoo's Razor went to the 6BR. Works better.

DeathBeforeDismount said:

ZCO is a European company (made there atleast) and as such, there are restrictions on what they can do in writing. What they "Claim" and what they actually do aren't the same thing.

I have known a ton of people (myself includes) who have warrantied Vortex, ZCO and TT scopes. Every time it has been similar. Easy process, quick turnaround.

Vortex gen 3 scopes cost significantly less to manufacture. In fact, Vortex can afford to replaced them a few times and still break even. Think about that for a minute. This is direct from one of their most well known sponsored shooters.

ZCO is a much smaller company, with a smaller product line and what I assume is, much lower margins. Its also a significantly better product overall.

I have never had to pay for shipping to ZCO and honestly, if I got to pay $30-50 to ship a $4000 optic to get repaired, I and anyone else who has one can afford it. It doesn't move the needle. Unless bitching about non material differences is the goal.

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I don’t think he said the ZCO warranty was bad, just not equally as painless as the Vortex.

carbonbased said:

I dunno about that man (but it should work fine for @hafejd30 in the summer). Perhaps they used them early in the war, but check this out. I wrote about it and also posted a link to the YT vid.


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Sounds like using any optic over there is risky and requires an ARD. Shooting a civi laser around would also seem to be like hoisting a big “kill me” flag over your head.

I’m no military guy, but

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Excellent video. Times change. Technology changes but goal is the same

400 left

Schw15 said:

I've been really thinking about upgrading my razor gen 3 but not sure if it's worth the squeeze. Richard from CST pointed me in the direction of the zco527. This is a lot of money to me to drop on a scope so I figured I would ask the hide there opinions and people who have both or have the higher end of scopes. I've been around ATACR and looked threw a zco 5 years ago for like 1 min so I have no experience.

I shoot elr style matches that's it. I like the razor gen 3 but this is the only rifle I own and so I figured I mine as well have the best I can can since I'm limited to 1.

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What distances are you shooting? Are you competitive now? Are you wanting to win more often? And can I ask what you shot before the G3 Razor?

Has anyone tried these on an ARC CDG action yet?

I will take this per our PMs.

All have been 108gr ELD-M thus far. I'll reload for it eventually.

Knights Manufacturing Company (Vero Beach) 1993 SR25 Match Rifle. All Black with no white lettering Military Match model with the 24” OberMeyer Match Barrel. Super Accurate.