8.6 Blk reloading info

[1ronsights]

I have also had the same experience as EagleEyeShooting with reforming. I have not had to turn hornady 6.5CM brass necks, though have had brass from other manufactures hang up if I did not turn the necks. I am using hornady dies.

Also like EagleEyeShooting, I also found 35.8gr of AA1680 to be too hot with 225gr barnes TTSXs. I was happier with results when bringing it down to 32.2gr.

I have had so much fun with this cartridge that I think I am going to get the RemAge-style barrel and put together a lightweight bolt action for backcountry black bear hunts as well. Does anyone have any recommendations on a good source for Remington 700 actions?

Thanks,
-JM

 

[Steven.Blk]

I have also had the same experience as EagleEyeShooting with reforming. I have not had to turn hornady 6.5CM brass necks, though have had brass from other manufactures hang up if I did not turn the necks. I am using hornady dies.

Also like EagleEyeShooting, I also found 35.8gr of AA1680 to be too hot with 225gr barnes TTSXs. I was happier with results when bringing it down to 32.2gr.

I have had so much fun with this cartridge that I think I am going to get the RemAge-style barrel and put together a lightweight bolt action for backcountry black bear hunts as well. Does anyone have any recommendations on a good source for Remington 700 actions?

Thanks,
-JM

You can get a 700 youth model in .234 from Wal-Mart for around $400, same price as the cheapest actions online.

 

[EagleEyeShooting]

Just finished up this Custom SBR build

Faxon 16" barrel cut down to 12.5" threaded 5/8x24
Kauger Arms CRS action
XLR Element 4.0 Viking Armament edition
Thermal Suppressors Glacier suppressor

Rifle weighs 10lbs fully configured and folded up is 22" with can is 32". Our shop will be rolling out some options for builds

 

[AXEFORCE6]

I just got started on my load development yesterday with CFE BLK powder. When I set up my chronograph I started off with my "commercial" cartridges from Gorilla. Has anyone else run these suckers through a chrono? Mine are the Barnes 210 gn TSX loads and according to the Q chart you are looking for 2086 fps out of a 16 inch barrel.. My 5 rounds of the Gorillas put them at an average of 3099 fps or let's call it a rough 50% extra velocity.. this seem excessive to anyone else given the Q load chart?

I am still working my own charge weights up nice and slow. Given the load chart I am going to try for 2100 fps average in the supers.
Word to the wise though, for being a powder that is very close on burn rate to the accurate 1680 that I can't find in stock the CFE BLK has some pretty hefty charge weights. I will share my numbers once I finish dialing in, but let's just say my supers were super slow at -10% and my Subs at PLUS 10% came out at 500ish fps...I have a LOT more tinkering to do.. lol.. to be honest very soon I will be starting on twice fired casings.

I would invest in a new chrono. No way those speeds are possible.

 

[Veckk]

I have also had the same experience as EagleEyeShooting with reforming. I have not had to turn hornady 6.5CM brass necks, though have had brass from other manufactures hang up if I did not turn the necks. I am using hornady dies.

Also like EagleEyeShooting, I also found 35.8gr of AA1680 to be too hot with 225gr barnes TTSXs. I was happier with results when bringing it down to 32.2gr.

I have had so much fun with this cartridge that I think I am going to get the RemAge-style barrel and put together a lightweight bolt action for backcountry black bear hunts as well. Does anyone have any recommendations on a good source for Remington 700 actions?

Thanks,
-JM

Same issue for me with the brass. Hornady resizes without any issue.

I ran some of the reloading data through Quickload and GRT and the 225g Barnes data came back as over pressured.

 

[GregP42]

Same issue for me with the brass. Hornady resizes without any issue.

I ran some of the reloading data through Quickload and GRT and the 225g Barnes data came back as over pressured.

What did you use in GRT for the case? Could you share the file with us for GRT?

 

[Veckk]

I put the data in manually based on the data from Q into both programs and the results were close. I attached the file for GRT. It's not super happy about the twist rate and effective cross section parameters but it does seem to produce valid results.

I shot some Maker Bullet sub sonics and chrono'ed the loads and the velocity was very close to the predicted results so I think I'm on the right track.

 

[GregP42]

I put the data in manually based on the data from Q into both programs and the results were close. I attached the file for GRT. It's not super happy about the twist rate and effective cross section parameters but it does seem to produce valid results.

I shot some Maker Bullet sub sonics and chrono'ed the loads and the velocity was very close to the predicted results so I think I'm on the right track.

Thank you, I have been learning GRT and I really like it. I use to use Loads From a Disk, but he passed away years ago and his family didn't want to pursue it when I last talked to them a couple years ago.

I found one issue, you have both Z and F set to 0.3382 for the groove and bore, F should be set to 0.3299 that made it happier, and if I set the twist to 8 the error goes away, but when it is set at 3 it freaks out lol.

Greg

 

[towerofpower93]

Just finished up this Custom SBR build

Faxon 16" barrel cut down to 12.5" threaded 5/8x24
Kauger Arms CRS action
XLR Element 4.0 Viking Armament edition
Thermal Suppressors Glacier suppressor

Rifle weighs 10lbs fully configured and folded up is 22" with can is 32". Our shop will be rolling out some options for builds

View attachment 7916050View attachment 7916051View attachment 7916052

Gorgeous rifle and nice photography. Might think about jumping into the 8.6B if a cool little suppressed bolt gun that takes the Magpul R700 mags I already have is available.

 

[DiscreetBallistics]

I put the data in manually based on the data from Q into both programs and the results were close. I attached the file for GRT. It's not super happy about the twist rate and effective cross section parameters but it does seem to produce valid results.

I shot some Maker Bullet sub sonics and chrono'ed the loads and the velocity was very close to the predicted results so I think I'm on the right track.

Thank you so much for putting that file together. I just installed GRT (I've been using QL) and cant for the life of me figure out how to upload this file. Would you mind providing some hints? Thanks!

 

[DiscreetBallistics]

UPDATE: I figured it out lol

 

[archetypefirearms]

Anyone that's reloading, which Dillon powder funnel have you used, if you have tried one, of course? I'm assuming maybe the "Q" funnel would be the closest since it's .338 cal, but not sure on the shoulder as I don't currently have anything that's .338.

 

[Veckk]

I've given up trying to convert Starline 6.5 brass. I went so far as to turn the necks but it seems to just want to spring back. Its just so much easier to use the Hornady 6.5 brass.

 

[GregP42]

Thank you so much for putting that file together. I just installed GRT (I've been using QL) and cant for the life of me figure out how to upload this file. Would you mind providing some hints? Thanks!

open GRT, don't go full screen, open user defined cartridge, and do a drag and drop of the .caliber file, that is how I did it.

 

[Veckk]

UPDATE: I figured it out lol

I would suggest double checking the case capacity. GRT seems to want to change it a bit based on it's calculations.

 

[yuppiemike]

Anyone hearing anything on future factory brass availability? I would assume Hornady maybe with a Q stamp.

I'm interested, but not quite brass forming interested, as I don't have the equipment. Mos Tek is taking orders on barrels which is a good sign if you want something with a different thread pitch or savage prefit. Anyone else offering barrels?

 

[Steven.Blk]

Anyone hearing anything on future factory brass availability? I would assume Hornady maybe with a Q stamp.

I'm interested, but not quite brass forming interested, as I don't have the equipment. Mos Tek is taking orders on barrels which is a good sign if you want something with a different thread pitch or savage prefit. Anyone else offering barrels?

Hornady will be coming out with a 315 gr sub in the subx line in the near future. Hornady is going to be the first big manufacturer of 8.6 blk. The others will follow in the next year or 2. Brass will come probably within the next year after the subx launch.

Source: my ass

 

[Yondering]

I've given up trying to convert Starline 6.5 brass. I went so far as to turn the necks but it seems to just want to spring back. Its just so much easier to use the Hornady 6.5 brass.

If you’re struggling with brass spring back, then it needs to be annealed.

Nothing about this cartridge should be difficult for brass forming, but sometimes annealing is an important part of the process.

 

[Veckk]

If you’re struggling with brass spring back, then it needs to be annealed.

Nothing about this cartridge should be difficult for brass forming, but sometimes annealing is an important part of the process.

I considered that but with how easy the process is with Hornady brass I've just tossed all of the other headstamps back in my 6.5 C bucket.

I've had very good luck with the Maker 350g subsonic bullets so far. The reloading data from their website matches my I'm seeing on my chrono.

Today I tried some 185g Hornady CX bullets using the reload data from Q. It looked good when I modeled it in GRT and it spit out a target velocity of 2205 fps. My chrono gave me an average velocity of 2249.

I checked the brass and the primers were flattening out and I saw some ejector swipes on the brass so I'm going to back down just a tad. I expected the brass from the supersonic loads to grow a bit but much to my surprise it did not.

 

[Yondering]

I considered that but with how easy the process is with Hornady brass I've just tossed all of the other headstamps back in my 6.5 C bucket.

I've had very good luck with the Maker 350g subsonic bullets so far. The reloading data from their website matches my I'm seeing on my chrono.

Today I tried some 185g Hornady CX bullets using the reload data from Q. It looked good when I modeled it in GRT and it spit out a target velocity of 2205 fps. My chrono gave me an average velocity of 2249.

I checked the brass and the primers were flattening out and I saw some ejector swipes on the brass so I'm going to back down just a tad. I expected the brass from the supersonic loads to grow a bit but much to my surprise it did not.

If you’re sizing up from 6.5, there’s no way it does not need to be annealed. You might get away with it for one or two loadings with some brands, but you’ll see cracked necks pretty soon without annealing. And annealing is not that hard to do; even crude and imperfect annealing with a torch and drill is better for making your brass last than not annealing at all. It's kind of a necessary skill when you get into wildcats and brass forming.

Edited - stupid iphone autocorrect.

 

[Veckk]

If you’re sizing up from 6.5, there’s no way it does not need to be annealed. You might get away with it for one or two loadings with some brands, but you’ll see cracked necks pretty soon without annealing. And annealing is not that hard to do; even crude and imperfect annealing with a torch and drill is better for making your brass last than not annealing at all. It's kind of a necessary skill when you get into wildcats and brass forming.

Edited - stupid iphone autocorrect.

I tried home brew drill/torch anneal on the starline brass and still did not get what I wanted. The time it takes with all of the extra steps told me I was wasting my time at this stage of the game. The Hornady brass works and for the small quantities I need to work up loads at this stage I'm just taking an admitted shortcut to get me reloading and shooting faster

 

[Yondering]

I tried home brew drill/torch anneal on the starline brass and still did not get what I wanted. The time it takes with all of the extra steps told me I was wasting my time at this stage of the game. The Hornady brass works and for the small quantities I need to work up loads at this stage I'm just taking an admitted shortcut to get me reloading and shooting faster

Well, you do your thing of course, but it’s worth understanding that if you still had brass spring back, you didn’t anneal well enough. Annealing works when you do it right. And the torch/drill method, while crude, can produce reasonably decent results quickly with a minimum of equipment if you do that right.

Just saying- an answer is right there, you just have to grab it. But I’ve said my piece.

 

[Steven.Blk]

I have also had the same experience as EagleEyeShooting with reforming. I have not had to turn hornady 6.5CM brass necks, though have had brass from other manufactures hang up if I did not turn the necks. I am using hornady dies.

Also like EagleEyeShooting, I also found 35.8gr of AA1680 to be too hot with 225gr barnes TTSXs. I was happier with results when bringing it down to 32.2gr.

I have had so much fun with this cartridge that I think I am going to get the RemAge-style barrel and put together a lightweight bolt action for backcountry black bear hunts as well. Does anyone have any recommendations on a good source for Remington 700 actions?

Thanks,
-JM

What was your COL on those 225 TTXS, I picked up a couple boxes and like what I'm getting of GRT

 

[Firefrog]

I’m not against this cartridge at all, but this is part of the reason I went with fast twist 35 caliber rifle rounds for subs years ago, and still prefer that caliber. Subsonic expanding pistol bullets are plentiful for cheap, up to about 180gr, and over 300gr for rifle bullets. It’s easier to make subsonic hollow points work well in the larger diameter as well. A fast twist 358 Win or 35 Remington covers pretty much the same bases as this new round, and then some. (The old 35 Rem is one of my favorite cartridges for subsonics; easy to develop good loads, and it runs fine in a .473” bolt.) Just food for thought.

I was wondering about a similar question. Why go through all the trouble of resizing, trimming, fire forming? Did some one already try necking up a Creedmoor case, with a fast twist barrel and just call it a 338 Creedmoor? Or just use a 338 federal case with a powder like trailboss and a fast twist barrel? No criticism just wondering and looking for simplicity. As I did with a 22-250 shooting 90 grainers in a 1-7 twist before 22 Creedmoor was a thing.

 

[VintorezAR]

I considered that but with how easy the process is with Hornady brass I've just tossed all of the other headstamps back in my 6.5 C bucket.

I've had very good luck with the Maker 350g subsonic bullets so far. The reloading data from their website matches my I'm seeing on my chrono.

Today I tried some 185g Hornady CX bullets using the reload data from Q. It looked good when I modeled it in GRT and it spit out a target velocity of 2205 fps. My chrono gave me an average velocity of 2249.

I checked the brass and the primers were flattening out and I saw some ejector swipes on the brass so I'm going to back down just a tad. I expected the brass from the supersonic loads to grow a bit but much to my surprise it did not.

what load did you end up with on the 185g Hornady CX bullets?

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

I was wondering about a similar question. Why go through all the trouble of resizing, trimming, fire forming? Did some one already try necking up a Creedmoor case, with a fast twist barrel and just call it a 338 Creedmoor? Or just use a 338 federal case with a powder like trailboss and a fast twist barrel? No criticism just wondering and looking for simplicity. As I did with a 22-250 shooting 90 grainers in a 1-7 twist before 22 Creedmoor was a thing.

I'm sure that there is a portion of this cartridges history/development that is based on marketability. However, there is significant voodoo when it comes to subsonic performance. Gas port pressure (semi auto), charge volume/weight, ogive location with respect to case mouth, etc. I'm sure that a necked up 6.5 creed case would have higher max velocities, but would it provide the same subsonic capabilities?

 

[SBC_457ci]

I'm sure that there is a portion of this cartridges history/development that is based on marketability. However, there is significant voodoo when it comes to subsonic performance. Gas port pressure (semi auto), charge volume/weight, ogive location with respect to case mouth, etc. I'm sure that a necked up 6.5 creed case would have higher max velocities, but would it provide the same subsonic capabilities?

I tend to agree on the subsonic marketability to the masses of a cartridge that fits a certain larger footprint, happens to be a gas gun and needs to feed from a certain magazine family. From a practical subsonic standpoint when using a bolt gun or single shot you dont need the excessive case volume of the 8.6 BO to launch bullets subsonic. The 8.6 BO is akin to a plus .195 tall 338 Whisper which has more than enough subsonic case capacity. Smaller cases work like charm, but may not play well with magazine feeding. Here’s the Kurz necked up to .338, 250 and 285 bullets.

 

[Yondering]

I'm sure that there is a portion of this cartridges history/development that is based on marketability. However, there is significant voodoo when it comes to subsonic performance. Gas port pressure (semi auto), charge volume/weight, ogive location with respect to case mouth, etc. I'm sure that a necked up 6.5 creed case would have higher max velocities, but would it provide the same subsonic capabilities?

Nah, there really isn't much voodoo involved in subsonic performance or making them run in a semi auto. It's pretty easy to figure out if you understand internal ballistics to some degree, or hollow point design for subsonic terminal ballistics.

But yeah, a huge part of this cartridge's design is based on marketing instead of optimal performance.

 

[Veckk]

what load did you end up with on the 185g Hornady CX bullets?

I ended up running 2.66 COAL and a charge of 31.6 grains of accurate 1680. Still working my way up.

 

[Rtlm2007]

Lee precision will make one for $20. I was just gonna wait til they came out with one next year as they said when I asked.

Hello everyone new here. A lot of great info here. Has anyone came across a Case Gauge yet for 8.6

 

[GregP42]

Has anyone tried the Sellier & Bellot brass yet for the conversion? I was given quite a bit of once fired the other day.

 

[Yondering]

Has anyone tried the Sellier & Bellot brass yet for the conversion? I was given quite a bit of once fired the other day.

Measure if the primer pockets are deep enough before putting too much effort into S&B. I’ve run into too many that have shallow primer pockets for large rifle.

 

[Veckk]

Has anyone tried the Sellier & Bellot brass yet for the conversion? I was given quite a bit of once fired the other day.

I tried a few and they ended up in my discard pile. They formed ok but the primer pockets were loose. I got them as free brass from a range so I have no clue what happened before I got my hands on them.

 

[GregP42]

Measure if the primer pockets are deep enough before putting too much effort into S&B. I’ve run into too many that have shallow primer pockets for large rifle.

I will check the depth on these when I convert them. If there is enough thickness in the base I can ream the pocket deeper.

 

[Yondering]

I will check the depth on these when I convert them. If there is enough thickness in the base I can ream the pocket deeper.

While you technically can, I’ve been through the same exercise with shallow S&B pockets and quickly concluded it’s not worth the time. It’s way too easy to just find better brass to start with.

 

[GregP42]

While you technically can, I’ve been through the same exercise with shallow S&B pockets and quickly concluded it’s not worth the time. It’s way too easy to just find better brass to start with.

I understand that, but until I find some Hornady brass in my area it gives me something to play with.

 

[Yondering]

I understand that, but until I find some Hornady brass in my area it gives me something to play with.

You can’t locate any LC 7.62? Seems like it’s usually laying around all over the place around here.

That’s what I used for pretty much all of my first few hundred pieces of 6.5 Creed back in the day when that was hard to find. Plenty of people said you couldn’t form it to Creed back then too, but it was fairly easy.

 

[1ronsights]

I understand that, but until I find some Hornady brass in my area it gives me something to play with.

Mine consistently hung up, but ran fine after turning the necks. I have found turning the necks a necessity when using anything but hornady.

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

Mine consistently hung up, but ran fine after turning the necks. I have found turning the necks a necessity when using anything but hornady.

Same.

 

[GregP42]

You can’t locate any LC 7.62? Seems like it’s usually laying around all over the place around here.

All my LC brass is used up for 7mm-08 or in my AR10. But like I said, this was free and I can play with it until I find some Hornady brass. Need to get a pilot for my neck turner for 338 still.

Greg

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

I put the data in manually based on the data from Q into both programs and the results were close. I attached the file for GRT. It's not super happy about the twist rate and effective cross section parameters but it does seem to produce valid results.

I shot some Maker Bullet sub sonics and chrono'ed the loads and the velocity was very close to the predicted results so I think I'm on the right track.

I have a question about the effective cross section in your .grt file.

How did you come up with .0537 as the number? Everything I am reading shows that number should be up in the .08-.09 range and that significantly lowers predicted pressures.

I'm not questioning your numbers, just want to know if there was any method behind it or if it was arbitrary?

 

[GregP42]

I have a question about the effective cross section in your .grt file.

How did you come up with .0537 as the number? Everything I am reading shows that number should be up in the .08-.09 range and that significantly lowers predicted pressures.

I'm not questioning your numbers, just want to know if there was any method behind it or if it was arbitrary?

Look at F in the second screen shot, it should be different, check my post for what it should be as I am at work and can't look it up.

Greg

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

Look at F in the second screen shot, it should be different, check my post for what it should be as I am at work and can't look it up.

Greg

I found your post. Put in the value you set (.3299) and I still get .0878 which is much different than the .0537 in the @Veckk generated file.

The area difference listed above is accounting for a 30kpsi prediction delta.

I want to know if .0537 (what is in the original .zip provided by @Veckk) is arbitrary or if it mathematically generated.

*edit: the difference between .33 and .3299 on the land diameter doesn't make a difference with respect to the effective cross section value outcome.

 

[Veckk]

I found your post. Put in the value you set (.3299) and I still get .0878 which is much different than the .0537 in the @Veckk generated file.

The area difference listed above is accounting for a 30kpsi prediction delta.

I want to know if .0537 (what is in the original .zip provided by @Veckk) is arbitrary or if it mathematically generated.

*edit: the difference between .33 and .3299 on the land diameter doesn't make a difference with respect to the effective cross section value outcome.

Greg spotted an error in the original file I had uploaded. Using the corrected number makes GRT output a value thats very close to what Quickload spits out (.0882). I dont know which one is "better" but my predicted velocities are very close to the chronograph readings I'm getting so I'm calling it good for my purposes.

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

Greg spotted an error in the original file I had uploaded. Using the corrected number makes GRT output a value thats very close to what Quickload spits out (.0882). I dont know which one is "better" but my predicted velocities are very close to the chronograph readings I'm getting so I'm calling it good for my purposes.

Thanks for clarifying. I went back after reading this post and looked at velocity deviations. .0573 only shows 30fps slower, but shows 30k psi higher pressure.

Just a reminder to myself to not blindly trust any of this software.

 

[Yondering]

Just a reminder to myself to not blindly trust any of this software.

Yes, that’s critically important. These things are a prediction of what should happen, rather than a measurement of what did happen as most published load data is.

I can’t help but cringe when I see people offering load data from QL (or others) to other people online, with no validation of the “data” at all. At least the standard values usually generate very conservative data - but not always.

 

[Veckk]

Thanks for clarifying. I went back after reading this post and looked at velocity deviations. .0573 only shows 30fps slower, but shows 30k psi higher pressure.

Just a reminder to myself to not blindly trust any of this software.

So very true. There are some cartridges that QL and GRT can't quite seem to get right so I always drag the chrono along to see how close predictions are.

 

[SAUMuvabitch]

Alright. I learned a hard lesson today. When Q says "only bonded and solid copper projectiles" they mean only solid copper.

I had some 185gr .338 federal fusion (bonded) loaded to very mild pressures, that came apart from the ultra fast twist and took out every single baffle, and the end cap, in my supressor.

Word of warning...test fire projectiles without supressors to verify they are staying together.

 

[Yondering]

Maybe people will start to realize at some point that the 1:3 twist is silly and counterproductive.

 

[Steven.Blk]

Alright. I learned a hard lesson today. When Q says "only bonded and solid copper projectiles" they mean only solid copper.

I had some 185gr .338 federal fusion (bonded) loaded to very mild pressures, that came apart from the ultra fast twist and took out every single baffle, and the end cap, in my supressor.

Word of warning...test fire projectiles without supressors to verify they are staying together.

That seems to be the moral of this thread, I would wager bonded bullets are for subs only