8.6 Blk reloading info

fordfan

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Aug 14, 2014
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Anyone order these yet? About $125 US for 100....

Subsonic 338 Bullet

338-subsonic.jpg


ZY
I just tried to order them, but it said "Unfortunately, there are no carriers available for your delivery address."
 
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ZY100

Gunny Sergeant
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Oct 13, 2007
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Looking good unclemoak!

WRT the subsonic expandables from South Africa....I have been emailing the company. Down the rabbit hole I go....

Think I will go through the effort to do a personal use import permit (60 day approval)....perhaps share them with my friends.

Drop me a PM if you might be interested. Suppose I need to get a rifle put together!

ZY



338-subsonic.jpg
 

Steven.Blk

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Jun 8, 2022
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Gorilla Ammo is live to the public as of 5pm EST today, 6/24/2022. If you didn't grab a code from faxon this is a chance to get brass. Limit 2 boxes of the 288 gr fracturing subs and 2 boxes of barns 210 TSX. Hopefully this is the last time I need to spend $2.60 a pop since dies are on the way, with brass not included those 210s should be running around 1.25 a throw.

edit: the sbr subs sold out in 5 minutes
 
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Yondering

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. Hopefully this is the last time I need to spend $2.60 a pop since dies are on the way, with brass not included those 210s should be running around 1.25 a throw.
I’m not against this cartridge at all, but this is part of the reason I went with fast twist 35 caliber rifle rounds for subs years ago, and still prefer that caliber. Subsonic expanding pistol bullets are plentiful for cheap, up to about 180gr, and over 300gr for rifle bullets. It’s easier to make subsonic hollow points work well in the larger diameter as well. A fast twist 358 Win or 35 Remington covers pretty much the same bases as this new round, and then some. (The old 35 Rem is one of my favorite cartridges for subsonics; easy to develop good loads, and it runs fine in a .473” bolt.) Just food for thought.
 
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Steven.Blk

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I’m not against this cartridge at all, but this is part of the reason I went with fast twist 35 caliber rifle rounds for suns years ago, and still prefer that caliber. Subsonic expanding pistol bullets are plentiful for cheap, up to about 180gr, and over 300gr for rifle bullets. It’s easier to make subsonic hollow points work well in the larger diameter as well. A fast twist 358 Win or 35 Remington covers pretty much the same bases as this new round, and then some. (The old 35 Rem is one of my favorite cartridges for subsonics; easy to develop good loads, and it runs fine in a .473” bolt.) Just food for thought.
I think alot of the appeal of this round is it's commercial momentum. In a few years they'll be big manufactures competing for the market share, and the plug an play ability with LR-308s makes adoption easier. I do think the fast twist 1:3 barrels are going to be the biggest impact on the market from this round already having a hot start and will make other big bore rounds more viable. I want a 1:3 twist 45-70 for the giggles.
 
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SAUMuvabitch

GrendleMafia
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Oct 16, 2021
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@unclemoak did you have any issue with chambering your converted brass? I just got my dies in and converted 1 piece of 6.5 Creed (Norma, left side of pic) and 1 piece of .308 (PPU, right side of pic.) seated a projo, and neither would chamber. I verified that I wasn't in the lands with the projectiles. Also verified trim length (.02 short of max) Issue looks to be neck thickness.
 

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ZY100

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Continuing the journey with the Peregrin .338 subsonic projectiles. Currently working ATF Form6 with BATFE and a Customs Broker. Still sorting out how much shipping, customs, and customs broker fees total....

PM if interested,
ZY

338-subsonic.jpg
 

unclemoak

d.wilson mfg
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@unclemoak did you have any issue with chambering your converted brass? I just got my dies in and converted 1 piece of 6.5 Creed (Norma, left side of pic) and 1 piece of .308 (PPU, right side of pic.) seated a projo, and neither would chamber. I verified that I wasn't in the lands with the projectiles. Also verified trim length (.02 short of max) Issue looks to be neck thickness.

I haven't had an issue, but it would be worth checking the neck diameter of a loaded round and comparing it to a chamber drawing.
 

Steven.Blk

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A preview of the latest Hornady 315 gr subx bullets in the latest Q video has got me excited for hunting. What would be comperable in the meantime for subsonic hunting
 

Steven.Blk

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What is gonna be the cheapest bullet for subs, being bonded I cannot find anything under around 0.75.
 

Yondering

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Do you think heat treated cast bullets will work for subs when powder coated?

A good thought, and worth a try. But I think it’s likely they’ll strip in the rifling with that 1:3 twist.

I shoot a lot of cast bullets, have for years, and in recovering my bullets have noticed more tendency for the lead to start stripping as it engages the rifling with the faster twists. Although a jammed fit can help that.

Seems to me this 1:3 twist may be eliminating some of the potential versatility of this cartridge. I wonder if it’ll prove worthwhile.
 

ZY100

Gunny Sergeant
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FWIW, still working the potential group buy for then monolithic subsonic projectiles from South Africa (see post #65).

I have been trying to get all the details from the US customs importer Peregrine has used in the past—still waiting.

I have no doubt they are good bullet, should handle the 1:3 no problem and hopefully are accurate. However, expect that after shipping, custom brokers fees, etc they will be about 1.25-1.35 or each.

Not a crazy price compared other .338 monolithics….but like stated above, this is not going to be a plinking round. Welcome to .338….

I will post updates as I get them.
ZY
 

GregP42

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Jun 18, 2022
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A good thought, and worth a try. But I think it’s likely they’ll strip in the rifling with that 1:3 twist.

I shoot a lot of cast bullets, have for years, and in recovering my bullets have noticed more tendency for the lead to start stripping as it engages the rifling with the faster twists. Although a jammed fit can help that.

Seems to me this 1:3 twist may be eliminating some of the potential versatility of this cartridge. I wonder if it’ll prove worthwhile.

I will look for a good mold after I get mine built, hopefully NOE will have something back in stock by then. It can't be any worse than shooting cast in a 50 BMG.

Greg
 
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Steven.Blk

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I will look for a good mold after I get mine built, hopefully NOE will have something back in stock by then. It can't be any worse than shooting cast in a 50 BMG.

Greg
I don't see why a cast lead bullet wouldn't work, all my digging leads me to belive that only the jacket rips off due to the fast twist.

Just don't try it with the can on 😉
 
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Rtlm2007

Fed3xdad
Minuteman
Nov 19, 2020
16
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Wisconsin
I've got some time before my rifle is done being built. I was wondering if anyone world like to help me compile a load list of other tested powers. I can make a spreadsheet of data sent to me and then we can share to those interested.
 

AP2020

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I was luck enough to grab a few boxes of those Makers on Thursday before they sold out, I'm very impressed. For a 12" barrel would you up the powered by 50% or so?
No. I would increase maybe 0.3gr.

One thing, Paul from Maker Bullets specifies is a speed limit of 1,050fps.

If you have a can, bad things would happen if that bullet comes apart in your can!
 
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VintorezAR

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I will look for a good mold after I get mine built, hopefully NOE will have something back in stock by then. It can't be any worse than shooting cast in a 50 BMG.

Greg
I have the noe (315 grs.) with flat point and no grooves that I shoot in 338 Spectre. It is great there but twist is 1-6. I may try some in my 8.6 when built.
 
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GregP42

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I have the noe (315 grs.) with flat point and no grooves that I shoot in 338 Spectre. It is great there but twist is 1-6. I may try some in my 8.6 when built.
Let me know how it goes, I was looking at that mold myself, but Al is out of stock at the moment on all versions of it. I was looking at an RG mold so I could try hollow point as well.

Greg
 

EagleEyeShooting

Desert Precision Gunworks
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Feb 17, 2022
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dpgunworks.com
Just diving into this cartridge but in a bolt gun for some ultra sneaky shooter. AP2020 has been puting out some awesome content on his YT channel and will be doing the same for these bolt guns soon.

Initial load testing was with a Hornady 225gr SP. The load used was from the published load data from Faxon of 35.8gr of AA1680.... A bit TOO SPICY! Caused my end cap to shrapnel from the bullet comming apart. No baffle damage. Case was way to over pressured. 6.5 Creedmoor brass is the way to go so far. I've tried 308 brass and had zero luck. Used Lee Precision pace setter die and it plunk test perfect.



Rifle 1 specs:
TC Compass SBR
Faxon OEM chambered barrel cut to 13" and threaded 5/8x24 modified breech end
Deadair Primal Can

Rifle 2 specs:
Kauger Arms CRS action
Faxon OEM chambered barrel 16" (for now)

11.5gr of Trailboss yields 1020 FPS
11gr of AA1680 pushes right at 1,000

Both with good accuracy so far at 100 yards
 

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Steven.Blk

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Jun 8, 2022
23
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Denver
Just diving into this cartridge but in a bolt gun for some ultra sneaky shooter. AP2020 has been puting out some awesome content on his YT channel and will be doing the same for these bolt guns soon.

Initial load testing was with a Hornady 225gr SP. The load used was from the published load data from Faxon of 35.8gr of AA1680.... A bit TOO SPICY! Caused my end cap to shrapnel from the bullet comming apart. No baffle damage. Case was way to over pressured. 6.5 Creedmoor brass is the way to go so far. I've tried 308 brass and had zero luck. Used Lee Precision pace setter die and it plunk test perfect.



Rifle 1 specs:
TC Compass SBR
Faxon OEM chambered barrel cut to 13" and threaded 5/8x24 modified breech end
Deadair Primal Can

Rifle 2 specs:
Kauger Arms CRS action
Faxon OEM chambered barrel 16" (for now)

11gr of Trailboss yields 1020 FPS
11gr of AA1680 pushes right at 1,000

Both with good accuracy so far at 100 yards
I thought it was weird that they listed that load as all the marketing material for load requirements was for bonded bullets or monolithics and the Hornady Sp isnt. Thanks for doing some leg work for us and RIP your end cap
 

SBC_457ci

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Jul 12, 2022
5
4
252/757
Hi, just I would jump on here and throw in my 2 cents on case forming, as there‘s more than one way to skin a cat. I guess the 338 Whisper and 338 Specter’s needed a big brother,so I threw in my hat on the 8.6 BLK just because. My only interest is in the context of subsonic 338 in a larger footprint action.
So I just got in my Lee dies today and I used virgin Fed LRP 6CM brass and the Lee die worked like a champ. I picked this brass for $33/100 at Midway about a month ago, perfect for forming proof of concept.Below are two cases; left case formed a from a custom 30 degree case forming bushing die set and the right case, only a Lee FL die.

New Fed 6CM brass-nominal length 1.915, 90‘s era Rockchucker press, K&M expander mandrels, Imperial die sizing wax and Militec lube on a q-tip for inside the necks.

Left case procedure that I used a few weeks ago, the long away around town until I could get some dies.
  1. Annealed .300 below case 6CM shoulder junction with case base in a water bath.
  2. Expanded to 6.5, then 6mm>.30 tapered expander and then .338 expander.
  3. Used several bushings to bump shoulder back in steps,trial and error and a PITA, at least its not a .14
  4. Bumped base-shoulder length to around 1.290 or so.
  5. Ran case over the .338 expander again.
  6. Trimmed case to 1.695, deburred.
  7. Lubed case shoulder and body with Imperial die sizing wax and Militec on the inside of the neck.
  8. Ran case into Lee FL die, so Rockchucker slightly cams over.
  9. Finished case was 1.702….ready for final (whatever the chamber tells me)trim.
* I had thought about trying to form cases using using my 338 Whisper FL die as the 8.6 is kind of a .195 tall 338 Whisper.

Right case procedure: for wildcatting, I love the Lee one piece spindle.

1. Lube inside of case neck and expand virgin 6CM case using 6.5, 6>.30 and .338 mandrels.
2. Lube outside of case neck, shoulder and body with sizing wax.
3. Run case into Lee die 1/3, 1/2 way ram stroke and then fully, while inspecting case at each ram location.
4. Finished case came out at 1.874, needs to be trimmed to length and annealed.

Not 338 Spectre easy; but relatively painless, I need to try this easy procedure with other brands of CM brass.


YMMV
 

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EagleEyeShooting

Desert Precision Gunworks
Minuteman
Feb 17, 2022
4
7
Arizona
dpgunworks.com
Heres some 100 yard group results with Trailboss at 11.3gr. 1020 FPS SD of 9. Seems pretty quite. The sound of rocks crackling from the impact which was louder was a satisfying experience.

TC Compass SBR
13" Faxon Barrel


Screenshot_20220712-211027_Range Buddy.jpg
 

towerofpower93

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Jul 11, 2010
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Just diving into this cartridge but in a bolt gun for some ultra sneaky shooter. AP2020 has been puting out some awesome content on his YT channel and will be doing the same for these bolt guns soon.

Initial load testing was with a Hornady 225gr SP. The load used was from the published load data from Faxon of 35.8gr of AA1680.... A bit TOO SPICY! Caused my end cap to shrapnel from the bullet comming apart. No baffle damage. Case was way to over pressured. 6.5 Creedmoor brass is the way to go so far. I've tried 308 brass and had zero luck. Used Lee Precision pace setter die and it plunk test perfect.



Rifle 1 specs:
TC Compass SBR
Faxon OEM chambered barrel cut to 13" and threaded 5/8x24 modified breech end
Deadair Primal Can

Rifle 2 specs:
Kauger Arms CRS action
Faxon OEM chambered barrel 16" (for now)

11.5gr of Trailboss yields 1020 FPS
11gr of AA1680 pushes right at 1,000

Both with good accuracy so far at 100 yards

I really like that TC. Sorry to hear about the can, but nice to know the load data is a bit much for non-monos.
 

S3v3n

Private
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Jul 14, 2022
1
1
Oregon
Hello everyone new here. A lot of great info here. Has anyone came across a Case Gauge yet for 8.6?
 
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SBC_457ci

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Jul 12, 2022
5
4
252/757
Hi, just I would jump on here and throw in my 2 cents on case forming, as there‘s more than one way to skin a cat. I guess the 338 Whisper and 338 Specter’s needed a big brother,so I threw in my hat on the 8.6 BLK just because. My only interest is in the context of subsonic 338 in a larger footprint action.
So I just got in my Lee dies today and I used virgin Fed LRP 6CM brass and the Lee die worked like a champ. I picked this brass for $33/100 at Midway about a month ago, perfect for forming proof of concept.Below are two cases; left case formed a from a custom 30 degree case forming bushing die set and the right case, only a Lee FL die.

New Fed 6CM brass-nominal length 1.915, 90‘s era Rockchucker press, K&M expander mandrels, Imperial die sizing wax and Militec lube on a q-tip for inside the necks.

Left case procedure that I used a few weeks ago, the long away around town until I could get some dies.
  1. Annealed .300 below case 6CM shoulder junction with case base in a water bath.
  2. Expanded to 6.5, then 6mm>.30 tapered expander and then .338 expander.
  3. Used several bushings to bump shoulder back in steps,trial and error and a PITA, at least its not a .14
  4. Bumped base-shoulder length to around 1.290 or so.
  5. Ran case over the .338 expander again.
  6. Trimmed case to 1.695, deburred.
  7. Lubed case shoulder and body with Imperial die sizing wax and Militec on the inside of the neck.
  8. Ran case into Lee FL die, so Rockchucker slightly cams over.
  9. Finished case was 1.702….ready for final (whatever the chamber tells me)trim.
* I had thought about trying to form cases using using my 338 Whisper FL die as the 8.6 is kind of a .195 tall 338 Whisper.

Right case procedure: for wildcatting, I love the Lee one piece spindle.

1. Lube inside of case neck and expand virgin 6CM case using 6.5, 6>.30 and .338 mandrels.
2. Lube outside of case neck, shoulder and body with sizing wax.
3. Run case into Lee die 1/3, 1/2 way ram stroke and then fully, while inspecting case at each ram location.
4. Finished case came out at 1.874, needs to be trimmed to length and annealed.

Not 338 Spectre easy; but relatively painless, I need to try this easy procedure with other brands of CM brass.


YMMV
Made up another 38 cases, but ran across a snag. Because of the thickness of the case necks, they really need be neckturned and it looks like my .336 expander mandrel is bit undersized. I could neck them down to .30 and make a skim cut and the expand back to .338 and remove the rest, but thats more trouble than I want to deal with at the moment.
Nevertheless, while not a sexy as. 300SMK here’s a canelured 250 grain SP that fits great as the base is just above the neck/shoulder junction,OAL is 2.575.The neck diameter is a bit tight with .3654 at the center of the neck though.
 

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EagleEyeShooting

Desert Precision Gunworks
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Feb 17, 2022
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7
Arizona
dpgunworks.com
Made up another 38 cases, but ran across a snag. Because of the thickness of the case necks, they really need be neckturned and it looks like my .336 expander mandrel is bit undersized. I could neck them down to .30 and make a skim cut and the expand back to .338 and remove the rest, but thats more trouble than I want to deal with at the moment.
Nevertheless, while not a sexy as. 300SMK here’s a canelured 250 grain SP that fits great as the base is just above the neck/shoulder junction,OAL is 2.575.The neck diameter is a bit tight with .3654 at the center of the neck though.
If your using Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor LRP brass you will not have to neck turn, at least from my expirence with 3 Faxon Rem 700 barrels I currently am testing for my shop. Loaded ammo plunks fine and has the perfect 2 thou expansion with this Hornady 6.5 brass. I am also using Lee Pacesetter 8.6 Dies. I have the Hornady die set still in the package
 
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SBC_457ci

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Jul 12, 2022
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4
252/757
If your using Hornady 6.5 Creedmoor LRP brass you will not have to neck turn, at least from my expirence with 3 Faxon Rem 700 barrels I currently am testing for my shop. Loaded ammo plunks fine and has the perfect 2 thou expansion with this Hornady 6.5 brass. I am also using Lee Pacesetter 8.6 Dies. I have the Hornady die set still in the package
Thanks, I maybe to throw some H brass into the testing mix. So here’s a Fed 6CM donor, neck turned , skimmed for 100 % clean up and trimmed to 1.687.
 

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Good12B1995

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May 28, 2022
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www.youtube.com
I just got started on my load development yesterday with CFE BLK powder. When I set up my chronograph I started off with my "commercial" cartridges from Gorilla. Has anyone else run these suckers through a chrono? Mine are the Barnes 210 gn TSX loads and according to the Q chart you are looking for 2086 fps out of a 16 inch barrel.. My 5 rounds of the Gorillas put them at an average of 3099 fps or let's call it a rough 50% extra velocity.. this seem excessive to anyone else given the Q load chart?

I am still working my own charge weights up nice and slow. Given the load chart I am going to try for 2100 fps average in the supers.
Word to the wise though, for being a powder that is very close on burn rate to the accurate 1680 that I can't find in stock the CFE BLK has some pretty hefty charge weights. I will share my numbers once I finish dialing in, but let's just say my supers were super slow at -10% and my Subs at PLUS 10% came out at 500ish fps...I have a LOT more tinkering to do.. lol.. to be honest very soon I will be starting on twice fired casings.
 

Yondering

Sergeant
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Don't be surprised when burn rate and powder charge weights are not similar. They are not related. Bulk/density, charge weights, and burn rate are all separate properties that you can not expect to correlate from one powder to the next.
 
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Steven.Blk

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Jun 8, 2022
23
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Denver
I just got started on my load development yesterday with CFE BLK powder. When I set up my chronograph I started off with my "commercial" cartridges from Gorilla. Has anyone else run these suckers through a chrono? Mine are the Barnes 210 gn TSX loads and according to the Q chart you are looking for 2086 fps out of a 16 inch barrel.. My 5 rounds of the Gorillas put them at an average of 3099 fps or let's call it a rough 50% extra velocity.. this seem excessive to anyone else given the Q load chart?

I am still working my own charge weights up nice and slow. Given the load chart I am going to try for 2100 fps average in the supers.
Word to the wise though, for being a powder that is very close on burn rate to the accurate 1680 that I can't find in stock the CFE BLK has some pretty hefty charge weights. I will share my numbers once I finish dialing in, but let's just say my supers were super slow at -10% and my Subs at PLUS 10% came out at 500ish fps...I have a LOT more tinkering to do.. lol.. to be honest very soon I will be starting on twice fired casings.
I loaded those 210s today for my 12" barrel and was getting around 1850, which is 100 fps less than the q chart. That Q chart is fucky
 
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SAUMuvabitch

GrendleMafia
Minuteman
Oct 16, 2021
95
26
Texas
I loaded those 210s today for my 12" barrel and was getting around 1850, which is 100 fps less than the q chart. That Q chart is fucky
I think 100 fps is reasonable deviation depending on case volume and environmental factors. But I agree, it would be nice to have a more trustworthy source.