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One question is how many of these businesses and organizations are still going to want to be linked on his website?
Larry's Links
Blue Force Gear – Makers of very well designed and fabricated tactical slings for an amazingly wide variety of weapons. First class products. TangoDown – TangoDown makes high quality...
www.vickerstactical.com
Getting sideways with the ATF is probably a badge of honor in some circles of this community. Would any of those companies’ customers not buy from them because of Vickers? I think a lot would buy more because of this situation.One question is how many of these businesses and organizations are still going to want to be linked on his website?
Larry's Links
Blue Force Gear – Makers of very well designed and fabricated tactical slings for an amazingly wide variety of weapons. First class products. TangoDown – TangoDown makes high quality...www.vickerstactical.com
They already are. I understand AFT if denying post samples to dealers on MG's they deem as not appropriate for LE use. IE, 1919's, M2's, Vickers, MG'08's, and many others. They are also calling the LE that is on request letter and discussing did they really request the demo and why, do they intend to purchase.
Several years ago a local young lawyer got a sizable inheritance. He quit being a lawyer, joined TX DPS, and got his SFFL/SOT. He decided he wanted a M134 mini gun. Got some Chief to sign a letter and had a guy out of AZ deliver it to a shoot N of Houston along with a tractor trailer load of 308 ammo, literally. He had drums of brass lined up that afternoon. Think he could get it approved today??? No.
If you are going to buy an NFA item be sure your bases are covered. NFA branch has been asking for photos of some items to be sure the item is what was on the original registration Form. Don't know how or what makes them pick an item. I have and friends have been asked for photos of original Colt Thompson, Ithaca Stake out, Registered Receiver 10/22 MG, and others. Several years ago 4-5 dealers were arrested in a pretty big MG fraud (not sure thats the correct term) ring. They would transfer M11/9's (and other cheap MG's) around to each other for several years and suddenly that M11/9 became a M60 or something else more expensive. M60 for sure because I know someone that had his confiscated by ATF. It had a M11 SN on it, I think they are all 181-xxxxx... Be careful.
Let’s see. He imported parts kits from Russia which were on a no import list and did business with Kalashnikov Concern which is a no no. Machine-guns with no serial numbers. FA guns with a letter from the local sheriff for demonstrations and then not demonstrating and how many FA guns do you need for podunkville PD? Evidently quite a few. I had a source from a mfg that told me what the scoop was when The investigation started because of a relationship they had with LAV.Thats why they should've just done what me and my neighbor do to show off in tiktok.
Just buy whatever demilled cool shit you want, reweld them bitches and machine whatever trigger/sear parts you need, etc. No paperwork, FFL/SOT, or tax stamp needed!
On a more serious note- cliff notes(tard version for those of us with fetal alcohol syndrome) on what Mr Vickers did?
real short version is greed and he FAFO. 2A or not you can’t import shit from countries that are on the no import list. Doesn’t matter what the items are.
Well, they didn’t exactly single Vickers out. If you find an unregistered machine gun in Grampa’s attic, your choices are surrender it to the ATF, or go to prison for a long time and surrender it to the ATF…
It is ironically refreshing that the ATF treats celebrities like Vickers the same as a nobody like me.
It is ironically refreshing that the ATF treats celebrities like Vickers the same as a nobody like me.
Hunter Biden?
Maybe if I start doing drugs at some point in the future, I’ll get some leniency… IDK. Win some lose some.
Vickers knew better, and they must have had him by the short and curlies because he plead guilty to everything.
Is anyone interested in a gun that doesn’t work right? This stupid thing goes BANG every time I drop the bolt.
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is why Biden is President!
I read the entire indictment. It's an easy case for the ATF. Why lie on the forms? Makes you wonder what other shenanigans go on in many jurisdictions. After hearing about Don Bradley on the Shawn Ryan show this is just more fuel for that fire.
There was a post on here a few months ago showing some agency in Houston with a bunch of NFA and seized firearms shooting them at the range. The fact that the different PDS can keep and use seized arms or import them to demo is a gray line with the above case just on the other side of it.
Biden is not president. He was installed as a ventriloquist dummy
Illegal importation of restricted guns/parts caused the democrats to cheat? Or, scary machine guns scared Dems into making Biden the most popular pres ever? I’m very confused.
We’re not talking about braced pistols or forced reset triggers. Vickers et al weren’t skirting along the fringes of a law. They were wiping their asses with it, then sending it to the ATF for approval. The ATF was all to happy to play along and bust them for being stupid.
The worst part is that they probably could have gotten away with it. Fucking do the demos. Have the dept buy a couple. Fuck, it’s already fraud. Go all in. Nope. They did just enough to “get theirs.” The FA-ed and are now FO-ing.
Unsolicited bad legal advice inbound (not only am I not a lawyer, I’m not your lawyer, yada yada). If you find a machine gun in Grampa’s attic, don’t tell anyone. Don’t tell your wife, your kids, the guys at the lodge, the cops, the atf, your priest, or the other voices in your head.
No, Biden won because of Dominion.
This... Is why his approval ratings is above zero.
I personally consider it a badge of honor 100%
Me and my neighbor do buy one get one AR DIAS's for Glock switches at the monthly gun show here. Its been a huge hit. Some biker looking dude said hes gonna introduce me to his super cool Border Patrol cousin visiting from Arizona next week so we can start doing some int'l business like my bro @Mr.BR ! Its gone be Ferraris and Ukrainian escorts for yours truly here soon gents!
Way I see it... moral of the story that ATF wants to get across: doing class 3 and destructive device business in the states is a big NO-NO! Doing class 3 & destructive biz across the border? A-ok!!!!
Fox bet $750M on that BS. How'd that work out?
There are only two legal ways for a new (post-'86) machine gun to enter the chain of commerce in the US:
1) Sale to a military or law enforcement entity
2) Sale of a sample from a manufacturer or importer to another SOT for the purpose of demonstration to the above-stated entity
What Mr. Vickers admitted doing is participating in a conspiracy with law enforcement agents to import machine guns for the supposed purpose of demonstration, but actual for other intended purposes (read: flexing on the 'gram). Furthermore, he did the same with firearms that originated in countries currently under embargo (presumably Russia or China; I'm unaware of anything cool that would be imported from North Korea or Iran).
Now, many will exclaim that this has been going on for decades. All the fancy stuff with which the kids on YouTube are playing came from the manufacturer via a "law letter". There are usually hundreds of post-'86 samples for sale at any given time, and any knowledgeable person would have doubts that all of these were demonstrated to LE. What's different is that various three-letter agencies have generally gotten more active in pursuing cases of this type in recent years - it's not just the ATF, and it pre-dates Biden. The ATF has certainly picked up its enforcement actions in this area judging by other less-flashy prosecutions in recent years (included a different police chief and dealer who tried to transfer a M134 on a law letter). Furthermore, there was presumably a number of transactions involved over a period of time. Finally, the violation of an arms embargo - no matter how insignificant - adds a twist to the story.
I don't like that this happened, I don't think it's fair, I don't think justice has been served, and I don't think any actual harm has been addressed. But this is one of those situations where the guy in front of you on the freeway goes past a cop doing five over the speed limit and you roll through at ten over - both of you were in violation of the same stupid law but it's pretty clear only one of you will be getting a ticket at that moment.
I look forward to the glowie/boot-licker accusations because some posters here are stuck in that program loop.
Look ^^^^^^ one of the people that believes that Fox news is not sleeping in the same bed as CNN, MSNBC and the rest of the propaganda arm of the government.
You truly don't believe that Fox would expose the banana republic. Do you know how much they were given to promote the COVID propaganda?
Fox is controlled opposition
According to some of the smooth brains above, you’re the reason Biden is President.
I personally consider it a badge of honor 100%
Me and my neighbor do buy one get one AR DIAS's for Glock switches at the monthly gun show here. Its been a huge hit. Some biker looking dude said hes gonna introduce me to his super cool Border Patrol cousin visiting from Arizona next week so we can start doing some int'l business like my bro @Mr.BR ! Its gone be Ferraris and Ukrainian escorts for yours truly here soon gents!
Way I see it... moral of the story that ATF wants to get across: doing class 3 and destructive device business in the states is a big NO-NO! Doing class 3 & destructive biz across the border? A-ok!!!!
Well , who or what is class 3 across the border? Never heard of her.
* for the record supporting Ukrainian and Russian hookers does not necessarily involve Ferraris and Lamborghinis
Besides its just impractical , how would Ferrari survive an honest scuffle over a 50$ tip .................. latest Russian sanction busting export .
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Only when it goes along with their agenda……
Greed doesn’t always mean money. You get 2 post samples with letters from the sheriff and it’s pretty cool and fun. Then you start pushing the envelope by getting a couple more and then a couple more and then a couple more until you have 33 samples (I don’t know how many he had it’s just a random number) for demonstration to a department with 4 guys on the force. He got greedy.
"Conspiracy" in the legal context means that you communicated or cooperated with other parties to commit a crime. It is a standard charge that you get pretty much by default unless you are Mr. Lone Wolf.
Even if your conspiracy bullshit were true, which it is not, it has absolutely nothing to do with what I said.
Anyone wonder when the whole of Washington DC is going to be charged with conspiracy? As it is said way too often, the Government does NOT like competition!!!
Well laid out.
There is a rough analog that which we are all familiar. It is the NY v Trump case where the allegations are that Trump overstated real estate values.
In both the Trump case and the Vickers case, it is quite difficult to identify the damaged party.
What is not difficult to identify is the mis-allocation of manpower, brainpower, time, effort, energy, legal billing hours that brought both of these cases to what is certainly a judge-shopped courtroom.
This is not to say that these gentlemen were not guilty of a crime. But even a pedestrian view of leftist progressive Marxist theory understands that the generation of an infinite mass of rules and regulations and laws is necessary to their ends. Only after these rules are on the books can the maxim "Show me the man, I will show you the crime" be applied to everyone. Including you. And me. And everyone reading this.
FAFO may apply to this sad story to a greater or lesser extent. But only the terminally naive think that they could escape a similar attack by a tyrannical prosecution.
Kudos
Vickers had a few machine guns........ And Omar married her brother. I'd say one cancels the other. Tit for tat, so to speak.
Can you make a compelling case or even prove that LAV is the victim of "tyrannical prosecution" like Trump?
I always thought of LAV as a cool guy and I like the two point slings named after him. HOWEVER, I have no problem with him getting prosecuted and punished to the full extend of the law similar to the guy who passed me on the right going 50 over the speed limit finally getting pulled over and relegated to public transportation for a while. That speed limit maybe stupid but going rogue is even more retarded.
(My initial assumption that LAV is an upstanding guy was confirmed by his guilty plea. I hate nothing more than guys that think they are smarter and above the law and then turn into whining bitches when caught.)
Yes, our current justice system is over-bloated, biased and increasingly agenda driven but it is orders of magnitude better than anarchy. If you don't believe me, ask the folks from the former CHAZ. They thought they could and should do everything they wanted -laws be dammed- and that turned into mayhem in a few days.
The NFA contains a bunch of bullshit that needs to go but I do not think anyone could convince me that legal full auto for everyone would be a good idea at this stage of our society. It is also never going to happen because of the class 3 lobby whose expensive toys would become near worthless overnight.
If it is discussed ad nauseam on arfcom how the intent of the NFA can be circumvented, in this case pertaining to the creation of post 86 machine guns, then maybe a smart person should not go down this road of predictable legal trouble.
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A lot going on there. A lot.
Newsflash: The NFA is constitutional until the SCOTUS decides otherwise.
My predictions:
- There is a reasonable chance that the SCOTUS will kill some of the recent brace, frames/receivers, brace edicts by limiting the ATF's rulemaking authority. (Similar to the EPA case.)
- There is no chance that the SCOTUS will strike the short barreled rifle section or any other section from the NFA. They cannot make laws.
- Hell will freeze over before machineguns become unregulated.
“Conspiracy” is often not the issue in “conspiracy theories”. As @alpine44 said, “conspiracy” just means more than one person was knowingly involved. The “theory” part is what people generally have trouble with.
Just don’t lie. Period.
Whether in person or on a form.
Whether in person or on a form.
Wow. You seem quite confident in the absoluteness of this post.
.....one more "Protector of the Realm"! Do you want nice things, or do you want sugar free bubble gum to protect your family?
So many fine comrades in this thread.
Another one of the problems is that vickers conspired with some sheriffs. Dumb move.
@wade2big has been warning us for a while about this, and he was right.
@wade2big has been warning us for a while about this, and he was right.
Brianf used his daddy’s money to try and start a gun company. He’s too good to get down into the nuts and bolts of things. Theis and his wife were writing company checks for whatever they wanted. He convinced brianf to buy a big ass commercial zero turn to mow the 25 square feet of grass He then used it to mow yards for Cash all week while brian stayed in new yawk
Clearly the same folks that brought you covid regulations would never fuck the eyes out of a highly visible gun advocate.
Example: you can go to walmart but not church
Weird parallel, fucking the consitution at will in real time.
R
Example: you can go to walmart but not church
Weird parallel, fucking the consitution at will in real time.
R
Thank you sir.
But... sooo.... how'd he get caught? Did it raise some red flags when he tried to do business with Kalash Concern? Or..?? (keep in mind the fetal alcohol syndrome
I aint got brainpower like you and @sirhrmechanic )Speaking of Kalash Concern, if biz with them is a no-go, how come we can get those semi auto Vityaz here in the states? And I aint talking about the PSA AK-V.. but the legit ones. Can't remember the exact model/name that they're called here.. the semi auto 9mm AK Vityaz clones. Thought them were imported from Kalashnikov Concern??
Also @E. Bryant off topic I know.. but I remember your CMMG Banshee barrel not having concentric threads or some such so had to chuck it into the lathe and fix that.. how much trouble would it be to get a 10mm Banshee, pick up a 9mm Banshee barrel, rechamber to 9x25 Dillon, and throw that barrel in the 10mm? 8-9" barrel 9x25 Dillon would make one helluva PDW IMO! 115's @ damn near 1900+ fps I'd reckon?
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Unpopular Opinion:
Vickers really had just become a self-promoting shill. Seing some of his shenanigans with m4carbine site and the blow ups there, along with his "merchandising" deals and "training" classes, he was all about the fame and fortune.
He didn't give 2 shits about the 2A other than to cash in.
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Argue about the NFA all you want.
Its also legal to walk into a crosswalk in front of a moving semi. 100% Semi is at fault
And you are fucking road raspberry. But hey--you were totally legal!!! Put that on your fucking tombstone.
Vickers really had just become a self-promoting shill. Seing some of his shenanigans with m4carbine site and the blow ups there, along with his "merchandising" deals and "training" classes, he was all about the fame and fortune.
He didn't give 2 shits about the 2A other than to cash in.
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Argue about the NFA all you want.
Its also legal to walk into a crosswalk in front of a moving semi. 100% Semi is at fault
And you are fucking road raspberry. But hey--you were totally legal!!! Put that on your fucking tombstone.
I think the big difference in the two cases is that Vickers admitted to violating a federal law, and the NY state attorney general is suing Trump in civil court for allegedly misstating property values (a suit would could have easily be brought by his organization's counterparties if they felt fraud has occurred). Two very different things unless you're trying to make broad sweeping political connections, in which case there will presumably be no acceptable counterargument so any debate is pointless.
Thank you sir.
But... sooo.... how'd he get caught? Did it raise some red flags when he tried to do business with Kalash Concern? Or..?? (keep in mind the fetal alcohol syndrome
Speaking of Kalash Concern, if biz with them is a no-go, how come we can get those semi auto Vityaz here in the states? And I aint talking about the PSA AK-V.. but the legit ones. Can't remember the exact model/name that they're called here.. the semi auto 9mm AK Vityaz clones. Thought them were imported from Kalashnikov Concern??
Also @E. Bryant off topic I know.. but I remember your CMMG Banshee barrel not having concentric threads or some such so had to chuck it into the lathe and fix that.. how much trouble would it be to get a 10mm Banshee, pick up a 9mm Banshee barrel, rechamber to 9x25 Dillon, and throw that barrel in the 10mm? 8-9" barrel 9x25 Dillon would make one helluva PDW IMO! 115's @ damn near 1900+ fps I'd reckon?
The current clones are made by KUSA, KP9.
In the modern legal landscape, having some sort of strategy for how one intends to fight the war with productive battles leads to better results. The potheads figured this out long ago, but yet it remains a mystery to gun owners. The lack of any sort of unifying faction at the federal level is a huge problem (various state groups being the major source of headway on the legislative front over the past quarter-century).
I'm all for a ruling invalidating the NFA on constitutional grounds. If an individual wants to take a tactical loss (which practically speaking means spending six figures on legal bills to pick up felony convictions and a a decade of time) in pursuit of a strategic victory, cool. If someone wants to keep on keepin' on with their black-market stuff, more power to them; just keep it on the down-low. But if someone wants to flag themselves via a Form 3 filing every time a Title II item changes hands, ya best be squeaky clean or have an actual strategy for winning the fight.
I think you parsed this out quite well. The differences are indeed innumerable. Thanks for dwelling in the minutia.
But if you missed the point about the precursor to being targeted by a tyrannical government colossus is the establishment of a rule set that none of us can follow, and thus all of us are subject to prosecutorial discretion for our thoughts and political beliefs, then there is no acceptable counterargument that makes this debate fruitful.
