DeLane Development Group Rimfire Ventures
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
Yep, odd numbers are unlucky.
MB
Got a EC Tuner today. Almost all of the top are midas + and the bottom is sk long range match. All 5 shot groups at 100 yards off a bipod and rear bag. Very pleased. Almost everything under an inch with some real winners.
I have a few thoughts. First off, thanks for stepping in and providing a source for parts kits and the cost effective poly magazines. I'm sure I'm not alone in intending to continue to run my Vudoo indefinitely. Without question it is the rifle I shoot the most and enjoy the most. .22lr just can't be beat.Yep, exactly why I'm doing more than one action.
Keep it coming, Dude....
MB
As for moving away from a 700 platform in the future, there may not be a ton of folks around that remeber why the 700 got so popular. As you mentioned, it's was not because it was a good action design. In many ways it is the opposite of this. The 700 was designed to be cheaper to manufacture than previous designs and many of it's issues are because of that. The very low cost to manufacure original Walker trigger for instance attaches with pins because those pins are actually part of the trigger function. One is the pivot for the topsear and the other a travel stop for same. Pins are a terrible way to attach a trigger, they allowed a very cheap design though. Much of the rest of the design is similar such as the trigger safety and 60degree trigger / cocking piece interface. These are not a good design. Neither was the clip extractor, bolt stop, and small bedding area. Back in the early days of this site and community the 700 didn't gain popularity for the action design, it did so because factory 700's, especially 5R's, shot damn good compared to other contenders. This was due to using better barrels more than anything else though I do think using shouldered barrels was a good move compared to other designs as well. Of course, now we are all talking custom semi clone actions and small shop cut barrels. Many of the 700 design problems are, of course corrected in custom actions. Your still stuck with the small bedding area and terrible trigger interface though. Ironic that aftermarket trigger makers have done so much work on that trigger that I challenge any trigger to stand up to a 2-stage bix. Seriously, there is no comparison. Anschutz and Walther can take their 3-position rifle triggers and shove them, the bix is better. That brings us to the fundemental issue. The 700 platform has intrinsic issues and those are certainly magnified when it comes to .22lr magazines and feeding with everybody using slightly different stock / bottom metal dimensions and the magazine attaching to that instead of the action. The 700 also has an unbelevably huge ecosystem of amazingly good and mostly interchangable parts. How much will you really gain departing from it? Even if you can have a 90 degree trigger interface and the trigger doesen't hammer in but has some nice screws or something will it be as good as a Bix or a TT? What will the real world improvement be from a slightly faster lock time or a better bedding area? Honestly, I doubt the changes could warrent steping outside the ecosystem. I guess perhaps you could go with the Tikka footprint as most of the ecosystem now also has Tikka verisons though I'm not sure how much that gains you.
Anyhow, some things that might be interesting:
1) A trigger hanger or threaded trigger pins because hammering in trigger pins is so fucking stupid.
2) I know how you feel about the many failed attempts to duplicate the Fortner action. Sorry, that motion and feel is still what I want most and can you make it dry fire safe and fit in a 700 chassis, thanks. Don't do it like their weird Fortner sporter model either, I want the thumb pad on the back. That geometry is what makes it so slick to use. I don't want some nasty Savage straight pull abomination either. I want a straight pull that feels like a Fortner when you run it. I want it to feel like it's running on ball bearings lubed with the tears of liberals. It's really kind of surprising I don't have a Fortner yet actually.
3) It might be possible to do a .22lr barrel interface that clamps the barrel in place instead of having it thread in. .22lr just dosen't generate enough thrust for a pre-tensioned shouldered interface to be nessecarry. I expect clamp attachment would allow drop in barrels while not needing either a fragile cone breach or the barrels to be individualy timed to the action as the user could just rotate the barrel to line up the ejector and extractor grooves. I expect the clamp screws could be on the top in front of the scope rail.
4) Affordable, reliable, magazines.
5) I would really prefer a solid bolt mounted safety that I trust over a trigger based one. A lot of 700 triggers actually have versions that come without the safety as many feel trigger based safeties, arnen't.
Anyhow, I look forward to keeping up with whatever you end up planning.
This is awesome Jim, and I sincerely appreciate you sharing your thoughts. You're right, there were so many short cuts taken on the Rem700 that, back in the day, almost every post from those involved in using them as the host of a custom build was about how to "blueprint" them. Longstanding internet wars were fought over the topic and lots of feelings were hurt over "accuracy guarantees." Then, the "Clone War," that, in its own way was much the same as the "blueprinting" and "accuracy guarantee" war, just with different players. I don't think Mike Walker envisioned any of it.
However, the direction it went and associated popularity is unquestionable and fortunately, the Rem 40X Rimfire was a spinoff based on the same approach that created the 700. So, to jump to the back of the book for a minute, will I abandon the actual footprint? No, I'll use the physical footprint, but I won't say much more than that right now.
If you need parts, be sure to reach out via [email protected]
MB
The Terminus Zeus has threaded pins. Somehow he managed to patent them.
Trigger hangars offer adjustability and easy installation
Another thing I wouldn’t want anyways as more to loosen. Putting in trigger pins with a small punch is fast and easy and they stay there.
Not a fan of trigger hangers either. Just another unneeded piece to complicate things.
TRG still is the best trigger, and has none of that crap...
I’ve never used a trigger hanger, but I’ve read that what you say is true. The Coup de Grace (CDG) from ARC has an interesting take on the trigger hanger…might also be patented. I believe it has some novel movement arrangement to allow tuning the cocking piece/trigger engagement handoff.
Anyway, many of you already know this, but figured I’d throw it out there for brainstorming (if only in MB’s mind).
This^^^^. While "best" is subjective, there's something to be said for a trigger that isn't captured with pins or pins with band-aids. And, while hangers serve a purpose that packages the trigger differently, adjustability in a "hard-use" rifle can, and has been a problem. The convention for many years has been to conform to what originally was a cheap design and every clone action, including those that aren't a direct clone but maintain the footprint, still have DNA from a cheap design.TRG still is the best trigger, and has none of that crap...
MB
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I’m no mechanical engineer, but it was a liberating experience when swapping a trigger in my Tikka (Midas in, stocker out; I own a R700 too so I know about pins).
One biggish bolt and
done!
The Sako/Tikka arrangement was foremost in my mind as I have a Rem700 Jewell in a P94S Finnfire with a hanger that is adjustable for timing/sear load.I’m no mechanical engineer, but it was a liberating experience when swapping a trigger in my Tikka (Midas in, stocker out; I own a R700 too so I know about pins).
One biggish bolt and
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