- Thread starter elfster1234
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Driving around the Denver area you can actually smell the grow houses along I-25 and I-70.
This place is friggin' weed crazy right now.
Gonna be interesting on New Year's Day.
Then again, maybe not. Everyone might be too sleepy from weed to riot.
Damn. I was hoping for some action....
This place is friggin' weed crazy right now.
Gonna be interesting on New Year's Day.
Then again, maybe not. Everyone might be too sleepy from weed to riot.
Damn. I was hoping for some action....
Good for them. They are making it into a source of revenue. Better than throwing people into prison and making me pay for it.
In my opinion the legalization of marijuana is the lesser of two evils. Legalization deprives the violent drug cartels of profit and power. Legalization frees up jail space for more violent offenders. Legalization provides a revenue stream for the state instead of a revenue drain for enforcement. I hope it takes the "forbidden fruit" motive for use away eventually. No its not cool, its a weed that makes you stupid. There are unresolved problems. If marijuana is sold over the counter in Colorado it seems obvious that it will become the source of supply for every state. Another problem is the trend I see of people whose sole purpose in life is to smoke weed moving to Colorado. Colorado shouldnt have to bear the burden of every marijuana addict in the country. I pray that other more dangerous drugs dont proliferate along with the legal pot. Many (like me) are here for Colorados stupendous outdoor recreational opportunities and simple healthy lifestyles, hopefully the whole state wont degenerate into a cesspool of drug addiction, and the crime that accompanies it. Its a interesting experiment and while I do believe legalization of marijuana is the lessor of two evils I wish the initial experiment was occurring in a different state than my own. Legal pot but a 20 round Colt mag is illegal to sell??? Very bizaare to see the green cross "medical" shops everywhere in Colorado and magazine stands two miles into Wyoming next to the fireworks stands. Interesting times.
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I've heard the other argument, that seized assets and cash provide a great deal of revenue and is part of the reason it hasn't been legalized sooner. I've never tried to research the claim.
I don't know what to think on this one. I don't like having so many people in prison here in the US, but I do think this will ruin a lot more lives and family's in the longer term. It will quell a restless population for sure.
It makes me laugh to see people in this day and age still thinking marijuana is making people stupid. IMO if you dedicate your life to marijuana you weren't very smart to begin with. Meanwhilesales of alcohol and prescription drugs reach higher and higher levels. I guess once all the ignorant old guard dies off we might be able to end this pointless drug war.
Can you say "self proliferating"? Bureaucracy ceases to exist without the "pointless drug war" and it is the fourth arm of government that cannot ever be voted out and will continue to increase.
It will never fly. With a 30% tax it will be much less expensive to stick with the already established black market. I seriously doubt that Colorado will have any impact on the cartel business end of things. Now, factor in warning labels, the expense of establishing levels and testing for DUI by marijuana, the potential for a whole new group of medical problems, and it will still not save much money. I read an interview with one of Colorado's medical marijuana distributors, and he said pricing will be higher than medical use which was $250 an ounce. Now, I worked undercover for 7 years, and I can tell you that weed priced over $4000 a pound will not sell when high quality stuff can be had for less than half of that from the dealers that have been selling for decades already.
Less expensive maybe, but the black market doesn't have access to clean store fronts with a large selection of high quality, verified products. I was watching Weed Wars on Discovery, and each batch in the shop was examined in the shop under a microscope for fungus and insect infections, then shipped to a third party to test THC and something else percentage. Then was labelled, inventoried, and stored subject to strict policy and quality controls.
Put it this way, would you buy "match grade" handloads from a sweaty guy at a gun show to save a buck or would you buy them from a qualified vendor with access to a quality controlled manufacturing facility.
Either way, there is now competition in the market and the black market guys will lose an arguable amount of market share. My estimates are higher than yours, but like Walmart, as soon as licensed growers build their operations to enterprise level operations, they can push the small guys out of business. Remove the legal threat and the additional expenses of the involved with money laundering, lawyer fees, and what not, damage will be done to illegal operations.
Plus, I don't think the cartels main market is high quality dope ops. I'd wager that the profit per unit volume of cocaina, human trafficking, and the risk versus reward involved makes these products the pareto component of their businesses.
Where I currently live in Wyoming weed is 50-60$$ for 1/8th of an ounce and people cannot get enough to supply the demand. I don't smoke due to work but if I did I would much rather go into a nice store, look through a selection of well prepared and packaged pot and pay a premium for it. The worst part of being a pot user is obtaining it. I have found that in states where its legalized in one form or another that its a much nicer experience.
For full disclosure, I have never smoked weed, and do not think it is something that is good or should be glorified. That said I have two points.
1. nso123, you have a flaw in your numbers, most people are not buying weed by the pound, and when the black market scales down quantity they scale up price by a lot. I know a lot of people who would buy high quality pot by the ounce if they could get it for $400-$450. If it is in the range of $50-$60 for 1/8 of an ounce then I know a lot of people who will be buying it from the store instead of the guy on the corner. Additionally those who are arguing that it will be too expensive don't realize this shit is called weed for a reason. In the right environment it is extremely easy to grow. Additional taxes are the issue? Look at distilled spirits, they are taxed fairly heavily depending on state, but the black market for them is still greatly suppressed because it is available for a bit more at the store. Additionally you are ignoring side industry such as making something useful out of the hemp products. I don't know what the profitability or use would be anymore because of synthetic fibers, but back in the day (before WWII) hemp rope was profitable enough that it was made and sold in competition with other ropes.
2. While I do think that legalizing it will cost the government less money (read me and you), and that it will lower teen drug use (it did in Amsterdam), I believe that it should legal because this is America, and we have a thing called freedom. I do not think the government should be regulating morals. If it doesn't harm other people in society then the government should have minimal control over it at best. I may not smoke weed, but I do enjoy the occasional beer, and like to shoot. When people in the government talk about taking my guns, or restricting the type I can buy I get downright pissed. If I lived through prohibition I would of been a criminal because of principles that I hold. Just because I am not one of the active participants doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye when the government is bullying a minority.
The people of America need to stick together in supporting freedom, regardless of whether that freedom happens to be one which you personally exercise.
1. nso123, you have a flaw in your numbers, most people are not buying weed by the pound, and when the black market scales down quantity they scale up price by a lot. I know a lot of people who would buy high quality pot by the ounce if they could get it for $400-$450. If it is in the range of $50-$60 for 1/8 of an ounce then I know a lot of people who will be buying it from the store instead of the guy on the corner. Additionally those who are arguing that it will be too expensive don't realize this shit is called weed for a reason. In the right environment it is extremely easy to grow. Additional taxes are the issue? Look at distilled spirits, they are taxed fairly heavily depending on state, but the black market for them is still greatly suppressed because it is available for a bit more at the store. Additionally you are ignoring side industry such as making something useful out of the hemp products. I don't know what the profitability or use would be anymore because of synthetic fibers, but back in the day (before WWII) hemp rope was profitable enough that it was made and sold in competition with other ropes.
2. While I do think that legalizing it will cost the government less money (read me and you), and that it will lower teen drug use (it did in Amsterdam), I believe that it should legal because this is America, and we have a thing called freedom. I do not think the government should be regulating morals. If it doesn't harm other people in society then the government should have minimal control over it at best. I may not smoke weed, but I do enjoy the occasional beer, and like to shoot. When people in the government talk about taking my guns, or restricting the type I can buy I get downright pissed. If I lived through prohibition I would of been a criminal because of principles that I hold. Just because I am not one of the active participants doesn't mean I should turn a blind eye when the government is bullying a minority.
The people of America need to stick together in supporting freedom, regardless of whether that freedom happens to be one which you personally exercise.
Then they came for the meth-heads, but I wasn't a meth-head...
Meh... I do believe in minimal regulations.
A couple homosexuals wanna get married? Not my business.
A woman wants to get an abortion? The embryo isn't a citizen yet, so again, not my business.
Somebody wants to go without heath insurance? Their choice.
Unfortunately there isn't room in today's political environment for a moderate. Gotta choose which freedoms you're willing to surrender if you want to participate.
Meh... I do believe in minimal regulations.
A couple homosexuals wanna get married? Not my business.
A woman wants to get an abortion? The embryo isn't a citizen yet, so again, not my business.
Somebody wants to go without heath insurance? Their choice.
Unfortunately there isn't room in today's political environment for a moderate. Gotta choose which freedoms you're willing to surrender if you want to participate.
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We mite as well legalize it..... we can`t control it....we`ve spent billons trying to....... people want it.....
it should be sold in all drugstores..... and TAXED......
it should be sold in all drugstores..... and TAXED......
the whole point in me posting this vid is.... which I'm kinda amazed that not a single person has picked up on this yet is.....
I don't see a problem with the above video... if someone wants to smoke their life savings away, then so be it.
the issue and reason why I posted the video was.... add in pot, take away the firearms..... not to make this thread to political... as in the OP title.. priorities. I guess that is just how Colorado rolls.
I don't see a problem with the above video... if someone wants to smoke their life savings away, then so be it.
the issue and reason why I posted the video was.... add in pot, take away the firearms..... not to make this thread to political... as in the OP title.. priorities. I guess that is just how Colorado rolls.
They did it with alcohol they'll do it with pot.
I don't think that one has any thing to do with the other. Completely different groups of people fighting for different things. in high school I smoked a little bit but than I grew up and became a responsible adult. Having read quit about the subject it has way more benefit than alcohol, its non addictive, there has never been a reported case of some one dyeing from an overdose, and it is not ever going to go away.. So legalize it and move on from every thing I have read cigarettes and alcohol are way more destructive substances than pot. if any one can show me different I would love to see the facts
In my experience (legal and controlled) if you are paying more than $200 an ounce for high quality you are getting beat unless you are getting some of the highest potency available. Like I said, the retailer that was interviewed said that medical marijuana sells for $250 an ounce, and that the newly legalized market would pay much higher prices. The person who buys one joint every two weeks or so may very well go to a retailer for the sake of not having to look over their shoulder, butt he person who smokes daily is not going to say "hey, this stuff is legal now so I think I will spend two or three times the money every month so that I can be legal". They were willing to do it before it was legal, so what makes folks think that they will pay more now? With this said, could prices come down at some point? Maybe, but doubtful. I doubt that the tax rate will drop, and I fully expect that more local governments will look to passing additional taxes, only raising prices even more.
I personally don't care if they legalize it or not. I don't partake and have no desire to begin. I know plenty of productive people who do use it and don't appear to cause any harm by their use. I think a better method for the government to get a piece of the pie would be to legalize it and just generate taxes from legitimate businesses and regular taxes. Tacking a 30% tax on something is not a way to promote having folks come to the legal side. Now, for a little twist, how will they identify taxed weed from untaxed weed? Do you have to keep your receipt?
I applaud your position and consider it the very cornerstone of Liberty. Liberty can not exist without tolerance. However your right to keep and bear arms does not depend on others approval. Every other person in the USA could disagree with your right to keep and bear arms but you would still have that right. There are freedoms - and there are freedoms. Last I heard this is still a constitutional republic and amendments of the constitution define our freedoms. Promoting liberty for all is great, but the liberties specifically granted to us by the constitution exist whether anyone agrees or not. Hope this is not getting too political and please delete this post if it is.
Once the customer walks out the door how do you know if his weed is legal or not ? Once you have the container black market weed fits in there ?
Quote Originally Posted by AK264 View Post
Legalization deprives the violent drug cartels of profit and power.
Also, not true.
I dont know that much about it but i dont think this is very representive of the legal marijuana industy in Colorado. Legalizing booze eliminated most moonshining why would legal marijuana not do the same?
Legalization deprives the violent drug cartels of profit and power.
Also, not true.
I dont know that much about it but i dont think this is very representive of the legal marijuana industy in Colorado. Legalizing booze eliminated most moonshining why would legal marijuana not do the same?
Legalizing booze eliminated most moonshining why would legal marijuana not do the same?
I fear the world my grand kids will grow up in.
Ryan
Ryan
As a Kentuckian let me assure you that you can still find untaxed liquor with out having to look to far....
There are as many or more study's written and executed buy far more accredited people. here is just one
http://healthland.time.com/2013/01/15/new-research-questions-marijuanas-impact-in-lowering-iq/
seriously all those study's are a waste of time. Seriously show me some REAL! evidence that weed is worse or even equal to the damage that booz and cigarettes cause to the human body and the impact on our health care in regards to the physical damage that they cause...
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You're kidding, right? You don't think that King's College London and Duke Univ. are accredited? Do a google search and you will find all the credible scientific studies you could ask for that show regular marijuana use is far WORSE than alcohol or cigarettes. Thanks to selective breeding, today's pot is way more potent than what was commonly smoked in the 60's and 70's. But, feel free to smoke all you want. It's your life.
alcohol - proven to be addictive physically and mentally
cigarettes- proven to be addictive physically and mentally
weed- possibly mentally
the top 4 abused drugs in the U.S. are cigarettes, alcohol, prescription's, and weed the only one that is illegal in the top 4 is weed and it is arguably the least dangerous and has the most benefit to the medical community when used properly for treatment..
any thing is mentally addictive gambling, food, sex, just about any thing really
deaths buy alcohol poising per year 88,000........ marijuana 0
findings from CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm
Deaths caused by smoking every year
•More than 440,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
•49,400 deaths per year from secondhand smoke exposure
•269,655 deaths annually among men (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
•173,940 deaths annually among women (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
The tobacco plant, Nicotiana, has probably been responsible for more deaths than any other herb. At present, tobacco smoking is causing over 3 million deaths a year worldwide, and if current smoking trends continue the annual mortality will exceed 10 million by around 2030.1 Add to this the mortality from cancers caused by oral uses and the death toll becomes still higher. Undoubtedly, tobacco is the most important avoidable cause of premature death and disease in the world.2
deaths attributed to only smoking weed 0
some physical problems caused by alcahol......Cirrhosis, Pancreatitis, Hypertension, Osteoporosis, and Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome to name the big ones
Do I really need to make a list for cigarettes ????
smoking weed:According to a 2013 literature review by Gordon and colleagues, inhaled marijuana is associated with lung disease.[2]
Of the various methods of cannabis consumption, smoking is considered the most harmful; the inhalation of smoke from organic materials can cause various health problems (e.g., coughing and sputum). Isoprenes help to modulate and slow down reaction rates, contributing to the significantly differing qualities of partial combustion products from various sources.[27][28]
A 2012 literature review by the British Lung Foundation found lack of research on the effect of cannabis smoke alone due to common mixing of cannabis and tobacco and frequent cigarette smoking by cannabis users; a low rate of addiction compared to tobacco; and an episodic nature of cannabis use compared to steady frequent smoking of tobacco.[
I'm just not sure where your getting your info from? I understand the difference in concentrations of THC from say retro weed and todays current supply. I can tell you that the weed grown today is grown with much more care than the food that you eat every day. Different strains of weed have different affects on the body and until recently weed was outlawed even for the purpose of research and study so there is not a lot of real world information on it.... To take it a step farther I would almost be willing to say that todays fast food is a far bigger concern to the health of this nation than weed...
"regular marijuana use is far WORSE than alcohol or cigarettes"<---where did you get this from? because I cant find any thing that supports it..
cigarettes- proven to be addictive physically and mentally
weed- possibly mentally
the top 4 abused drugs in the U.S. are cigarettes, alcohol, prescription's, and weed the only one that is illegal in the top 4 is weed and it is arguably the least dangerous and has the most benefit to the medical community when used properly for treatment..
any thing is mentally addictive gambling, food, sex, just about any thing really
deaths buy alcohol poising per year 88,000........ marijuana 0
findings from CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5337a2.htm
Deaths caused by smoking every year
•More than 440,000 deaths annually (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
•49,400 deaths per year from secondhand smoke exposure
•269,655 deaths annually among men (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
•173,940 deaths annually among women (including deaths from secondhand smoke)
The tobacco plant, Nicotiana, has probably been responsible for more deaths than any other herb. At present, tobacco smoking is causing over 3 million deaths a year worldwide, and if current smoking trends continue the annual mortality will exceed 10 million by around 2030.1 Add to this the mortality from cancers caused by oral uses and the death toll becomes still higher. Undoubtedly, tobacco is the most important avoidable cause of premature death and disease in the world.2
deaths attributed to only smoking weed 0
some physical problems caused by alcahol......Cirrhosis, Pancreatitis, Hypertension, Osteoporosis, and Wernicke-Korsakoff Syndrome to name the big ones
Do I really need to make a list for cigarettes ????
smoking weed:According to a 2013 literature review by Gordon and colleagues, inhaled marijuana is associated with lung disease.[2]
Of the various methods of cannabis consumption, smoking is considered the most harmful; the inhalation of smoke from organic materials can cause various health problems (e.g., coughing and sputum). Isoprenes help to modulate and slow down reaction rates, contributing to the significantly differing qualities of partial combustion products from various sources.[27][28]
A 2012 literature review by the British Lung Foundation found lack of research on the effect of cannabis smoke alone due to common mixing of cannabis and tobacco and frequent cigarette smoking by cannabis users; a low rate of addiction compared to tobacco; and an episodic nature of cannabis use compared to steady frequent smoking of tobacco.[
I'm just not sure where your getting your info from? I understand the difference in concentrations of THC from say retro weed and todays current supply. I can tell you that the weed grown today is grown with much more care than the food that you eat every day. Different strains of weed have different affects on the body and until recently weed was outlawed even for the purpose of research and study so there is not a lot of real world information on it.... To take it a step farther I would almost be willing to say that todays fast food is a far bigger concern to the health of this nation than weed...
"regular marijuana use is far WORSE than alcohol or cigarettes"<---where did you get this from? because I cant find any thing that supports it..
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That's a full blown load of shit.
First let me state I no longer smoke marijuana. That said I rolled and smoked my first joint in 1968, right after barely graduating high school, and used it in copious amounts for some time. Then I got into working and slacked back to occasional, semi regular use. In 1990, at 40 years old, after being hurt on the job, I returned to college and graduated from the University of Virginia with a 3.2 GPA. I also worked part time and managed some real estate I owned. It doesn't appear to have harmed me too much. In all these 45 years Ive never known anyone to die or even have serious repercussion (aside from being arrested) from the use of cannabis. Sure, if you smoke it without stopping it will make you slow or short of breath, but almost anything done to excess will have negative consequences. If you drink 3 six packs of beer then smoke a joint and go driving around you may have a wreck. Makes real sense to blame it on the weed.
All that said, I would advise against SMOKEING anything be it cannabis, tobacco, crack, or what have you. Your lungs were made for air, not smoke. You wouldn't piss in your gas tank...just dumb. Don't put smoke in your lungs. If you want to use it for its medical or recreational properties, bake with it.
Try to watch this, the whole thing, with an open mind.
Stoned Kids - YouTube
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Guess you didn't try very hard, because I found many. You have to remember that a lot of the news lately has been trying to justify the legalization of pot. Kinda dumb to compare deaths and disease due to marijuana use, which has been illegal, with deaths and disease caused by legal alcohol and cigarettes. Just wait until marijuana has been used regularly by a large sample of people for decades. Further complicating scientific studies is that many marijuana users are also alcohol and tobacco users. This makes it difficult to separate out one over the other as causing death or disease. Feel free to smoke as much as you want. It's no skin off my nose.
http://globalnews.ca/news/789962/smoking-marijuana-is-healthier-than-drinking-beer-true-or-false/
http://learnaboutmarijuanawa.org/factsheets/tobacco.htm
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Just think, you could have made a 4.0 if you had not smoked pot. You should try to evaluate the latest scientific studies on pot with open mind.
Hey, I am all for the libertarian approach. Just don't be conned into thinking smoking pot is without serious consequences for the individual and long term, for society as a whole. Look into what has been going on with Amsterdam's Red Light district and the pot coffee shops. Maybe the people of Amsterdam have finally had enough?
http://www.dutchamsterdam.nl/3485-amsterdam-coffeeshops-phased-out
http://www.forbes.com/sites/cecilia...arijuana-prohibition-closing-in-on-amsterdam/
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That's an interesting video, I didn't know they were using it to treat kids. I smoked my fair share when I was younger and I think it's great they are using it for medicinal purposes. A few aunts, one cousin and one uncle have been diagnosed with cancer in the last five years, it sucks seeing a couple of them so miserable because they aren't able to eat or keep food down due to being nauseous from the treatments. My one aunt went from about 150 lbs down to maybe 90 before she passed, it's hard not to think that if she would have had medical marijuana that she at least had a better quality of life in the last few months of her life.
With that being said, I would like to be able to try it for my migraine/cluster headaches that I've been fighting for 9 years. I get headaches everyday, some to the point I can't hardly function because of the pain. I don't know if it would work for these kind of headaches based on what I have read but it's healthier than the meds I'm on. The latest medicine I'm on that actually works has to have liver and kidney function tests every month. The other side effects of it aren't great either but it's worth it to be headache free a couple days a week. I know which one I would rather put in my body.
look into this for your headaches there is a lot of info on it out there
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFuL7pcShDk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMhx1RLaN7Y
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The problem here is you have already made up your mind. You don't look for real answers you look for what you have already convinced your self is the truth..
because no one can argue with stupid i will leave you to your own ignorance....As they say ignorance is bliss
This is the only useful comment I see in the whole debate. Regardless of whether we legalize it or not - just having the government involved means we are doing the wrong thing.
I have actually read quite a bit on this and it sounds very promising for cluster headaches in pre hallucinating doses. I don't think it will ever be legal to use for medicinal use since it took this long to legalize marijuana for medical uses.
grow it your self.. Don't tell a soul about it like in the first video I posted do you think the shrooms have a worse affect on your body than opiets that don't work?
I
I
MAPS is doing a lot of research into legitimately therapeutic and medical uses of currently illegal drugs, i.e. those with no currently established medical uses.
They one they are doing now is MDMA assisted psychotherapy for PTSD and a lot of their study participants are veterans. They've done work with the hallucinogens, maybe currently, but I haven't stayed up to date with their work.
Rigorous, peer-reviewed and replicated scientific investigation is necessary to confirm if a substance has or does not have any utility in healing sick people and at least they have been successful in getting permission to conduct professional research into this area.
Legalization is fine if the users are willing to live with and pay for the consequences. We will realize no savings from this once the nanny state decides we must provide care and treatment for those that can not handle the full immersion into legal drugs.
To some extent the laws do prohibit those that are law abiding. Take away the taboo and the pool of potential addicts increases. Some claim pot is not a "gateway" drug but look at the stats most don't start out snorting cocaine or mainlining heroin. Once the taboo is broken the next drug is easier to expiriment with. There is no experimenting with heroin.
We are already a drug oriented society. You watch TV, every other commercial is about taking a pill to make it hard, keep fat off, or prevent some other ailment that would be manageable by probably losing the extra 40 pounds of fat the lard ass is hauling around. Why be personally responsible when you can take a pill.
I'd say legalize it all, including heroin, as long as the public will allow for special street sweepers capable of lifting and tossing the cadavers that will be found in the gutter and the parks. No treatment you are responsible for your use.
Part of this is creating a dependent society and controlling through access/prohibition to sources of dependency. We own the worlds largest producer of poppy right now and yet just about every town in my state, MA, has a methadone clinic and a heroin problem. I bet all those methadone patients getting government paid for taxis to get their "treatment" tend to vote in the direction of those people that will keep the fix coming.
Just my thoughts.
Elf I understand your point showing the compare and contrast between mandating gun restrictions while at the same time supposedly allowing greater freedom to access drugs. Two sides of the same control coin. Limiting access to firearms increases control as does increasing access to drugs that can lead to dependency or alter a persons sense of what is important.
To some extent the laws do prohibit those that are law abiding. Take away the taboo and the pool of potential addicts increases. Some claim pot is not a "gateway" drug but look at the stats most don't start out snorting cocaine or mainlining heroin. Once the taboo is broken the next drug is easier to expiriment with. There is no experimenting with heroin.
We are already a drug oriented society. You watch TV, every other commercial is about taking a pill to make it hard, keep fat off, or prevent some other ailment that would be manageable by probably losing the extra 40 pounds of fat the lard ass is hauling around. Why be personally responsible when you can take a pill.
I'd say legalize it all, including heroin, as long as the public will allow for special street sweepers capable of lifting and tossing the cadavers that will be found in the gutter and the parks. No treatment you are responsible for your use.
Part of this is creating a dependent society and controlling through access/prohibition to sources of dependency. We own the worlds largest producer of poppy right now and yet just about every town in my state, MA, has a methadone clinic and a heroin problem. I bet all those methadone patients getting government paid for taxis to get their "treatment" tend to vote in the direction of those people that will keep the fix coming.
Just my thoughts.
Elf I understand your point showing the compare and contrast between mandating gun restrictions while at the same time supposedly allowing greater freedom to access drugs. Two sides of the same control coin. Limiting access to firearms increases control as does increasing access to drugs that can lead to dependency or alter a persons sense of what is important.
skip to the last 7 min of this video I found it very interesting.. the entire show was interesting but its 45min long..
drugs have always been a part of the human race. They always will be they are not going any where. I like watching Drugs ink on NatGeo like every thing else you have to take into consideration the source of the info but seeing what other country's have done interests my
Drugs, Inc. - Heroin - YouTube
drugs have always been a part of the human race. They always will be they are not going any where. I like watching Drugs ink on NatGeo like every thing else you have to take into consideration the source of the info but seeing what other country's have done interests my
Drugs, Inc. - Heroin - YouTube
I agree with this. If the choice is yours, so are the consequences. As for the argument that morals shouldn't be legislated... well, that's pretty much what most laws do... They represent some group's idea of what is right or proper. Tell me the minimum wage laws aren't based upon a moral judgment. Listen to politicians justify the new healthcare law as being "the right thing to do"...
A very good "Friend" of mine who has never done drugs in his life doesn't smoke and drinks once or twice a month takes a micro dose of pure mdma about every 2 months . He went from severe PTSD and on the verge of losing everything to having a happy healthy home life absent of nightmares....... so its something to keep in mind.
Just think, you could have made a 4.0 if you had not smoked pot. You should try to evaluate the latest scientific studies on pot with open mind.
Hey, I am all for the libertarian approach. Just don't be conned into thinking smoking pot is without serious consequences for the individual and long term, for society as a whole. Look into what has been going on with Amsterdam's Red Light district and the pot coffee shops. Maybe the people of Amsterdam have finally had enough?
Amsterdam phases out 28 (not 31) cannabis 'coffeeshops' | DutchAmsterdam.com
Marijuana Prohibition Closing In On Amsterdam? - Forbes
Actually I would have blown my brains out from the stress. competing with 20 year olds who were at the top of their classes was tough.
Its a bitch, isn't it. I got the toenail fungus and went to the dr. about it. The treatment would have been around $1800 and had to get my blood tested twice...once before the start and once half way through. then I found out about Tea Tree oil/Ben Gay. Cleared it right up.
The truth of the matter is that MDMA, MDA, LSD and several others were created for the purpose of treating emotional disorders and were very helpful until Tim Leary fucked up everything. They used to use LSD at the University of Virginia psychiatric center, as well as Harvard and cany others
To me it kind of boils down to personal liberty.
If I try one of these and it WORKS FOR ME who is some doctor to say "It doesn't work for you." Fuck him. Its like the guy taking the mushrooms for his cluster headaches...hes a responsible citizen and it works for him. Who the fuck is the DEA, or the AMA to say "No it doesn't, your going to jail."
MAASTRICHT, Netherlands — Club 69 has seen better days.
On a wet winter afternoon, the place was empty. The palm-tree murals went un-admired, the elaborate smoke-extraction system was turned off and the tupperware containers of cannabis sat unsmoked on the shelves.
Owner Henk Peelen says his "coffee shop" — the Dutch term for a cannabis cafe — has fallen victim to laws that came into force last year to stop foreigners from taking advantage of the Netherlands' tolerant approach to soft drugs.
"Because of the ban on customers who came from abroad, I had to sack all my staff, 11 people," he said.
About half of Maastricht's 14 coffee shops have shut down since May, when the new rules took effect. Others have seen a radical decline in customers and Peelen says almost 400 people have lost their job across this southern city.
"It's costing the city a lot of money," he complains.
Amsterdam is a two-hour drive north of Maastricht. In the heart of the capital's red-light district, the scene in its best-known coffee shop could hardly be a bigger contrast. The cheerful, international crowd spilling out of the canal-side Bulldog is an illustration of the complexity of Dutch drug laws.
The ban on foreigners entering coffee shops came into force last May in the Netherlands' southern provinces and was due to take effect across the whole country on Jan. 1, limiting access to marijuana outlets to Dutch residents who register to obtain a "weed pass."
However, after intense lobbying by city authorities in Amsterdam, which feared a loss of tourist revenue, a new Dutch government elected in September agreed to change tack. The law still stands, but it's now up to each city to decide how to apply it.
"We would like to inform you that coffee shops are OPEN in Amsterdam," the Bulldog proclaims on its website.
That may be good news for tourists hoping to chill out with a toke after a trek around the flower market or Van Gogh Museum, but not for the weed lovers of Maastricht.
"It's death penalty for cannabis culture," says Roger Willemsen, whose Organic Earth store sells cannabis seeds and other products for customers seeking to grow their own. "It's the world turned around. Instead of going forward they are going backward."
The city hall in this pretty riverside university city of 122,000 — close to the Netherlands' borders with Belgium and Germany — sees things differently.
Mayor Onno Hoes had lobbied for the new restrictions, complaining Maastricht was being overrun by rowdy foreign youngsters flooding into town to get stoned.
"In Amsterdam there are tourists going to visit the museums and the canals who go to the Bulldog or some other coffee shop to smoke some weed. Here you had people coming in just to visit four or five coffee shops and buy up the maximum amount of weed," explains Gertjan Bos, the mayor's spokesman. "They were noisy, unruly, a nuisance."
Bos says the weed pass has successfully halted the flow of an estimated 1.6 million foreign visitors a year who came to the city for pot.
Although the coffee shop association calculates the decline in dope-smoking visitors has wiped out income of about $185 million, Bos denies there's been any significant impact on the city's wider economy.
However, he acknowledges that the weed pass idea has not been entirely successful. Provisions designed to turn the cannabis outlets into private clubs where all clients must register as members have scared away Dutch customers, forcing the closure of coffee shops.
Recognizing the problem, the city hall announced in September it was dropping the registration requirement so customers need only show their Dutch passport or local residence papers to gain access to coffee shops.
Peelen, however, is not convinced.
He says Club 69 — located across the street from Maastricht University's arts and social science faculty and next door to an "erotic discount center" — has enough customers to keep afloat, but doubts others will reopen unless an ongoing legal challenge forces a change in city policy.
Meanwhile, he claims the new restrictions on coffee shops have led to an "explosion" of illegal street dealing.
"There is more criminality on the street, more aggression. People feel unsafe. What sort of first impression does that give to people coming from abroad?" Peelen asks.
Bos counters that tough police action has cracked down on street trading while the new measures to encourage Dutch pot smokers to return to the coffee shops will further undercut the illegal dealers.
A short walk from Club 69, Willemsen's emporium for pot cultivators is packed with lamps, fertilizers and sacks of soil. There's also a baffling array of seed varieties ranging from the modest African Widow, going for just $13 for a packet of 10, to the likes of G13 Haze New York Diesel retailing at $185.
Willemsen says the sale of cannabis seeds is completely legal and the grow-your-own business is booming since the weed pass was introduced.
"Of course it depends on what they do with them. We sell to customers who maybe want to feed them to their canaries or grow the plants for a windbreak in the garden," he says with a smile.
"There's a Dutch mentality, a lot of people thought it was tolerance, but it's not tolerance, it's creativity. People in Holland know the rules, but there's always a way to get around them."
Haze clears over Dutch cannabis law | GlobalPost
On a wet winter afternoon, the place was empty. The palm-tree murals went un-admired, the elaborate smoke-extraction system was turned off and the tupperware containers of cannabis sat unsmoked on the shelves.
Owner Henk Peelen says his "coffee shop" — the Dutch term for a cannabis cafe — has fallen victim to laws that came into force last year to stop foreigners from taking advantage of the Netherlands' tolerant approach to soft drugs.
"Because of the ban on customers who came from abroad, I had to sack all my staff, 11 people," he said.
About half of Maastricht's 14 coffee shops have shut down since May, when the new rules took effect. Others have seen a radical decline in customers and Peelen says almost 400 people have lost their job across this southern city.
"It's costing the city a lot of money," he complains.
Amsterdam is a two-hour drive north of Maastricht. In the heart of the capital's red-light district, the scene in its best-known coffee shop could hardly be a bigger contrast. The cheerful, international crowd spilling out of the canal-side Bulldog is an illustration of the complexity of Dutch drug laws.
The ban on foreigners entering coffee shops came into force last May in the Netherlands' southern provinces and was due to take effect across the whole country on Jan. 1, limiting access to marijuana outlets to Dutch residents who register to obtain a "weed pass."
However, after intense lobbying by city authorities in Amsterdam, which feared a loss of tourist revenue, a new Dutch government elected in September agreed to change tack. The law still stands, but it's now up to each city to decide how to apply it.
"We would like to inform you that coffee shops are OPEN in Amsterdam," the Bulldog proclaims on its website.
That may be good news for tourists hoping to chill out with a toke after a trek around the flower market or Van Gogh Museum, but not for the weed lovers of Maastricht.
"It's death penalty for cannabis culture," says Roger Willemsen, whose Organic Earth store sells cannabis seeds and other products for customers seeking to grow their own. "It's the world turned around. Instead of going forward they are going backward."
The city hall in this pretty riverside university city of 122,000 — close to the Netherlands' borders with Belgium and Germany — sees things differently.
Mayor Onno Hoes had lobbied for the new restrictions, complaining Maastricht was being overrun by rowdy foreign youngsters flooding into town to get stoned.
"In Amsterdam there are tourists going to visit the museums and the canals who go to the Bulldog or some other coffee shop to smoke some weed. Here you had people coming in just to visit four or five coffee shops and buy up the maximum amount of weed," explains Gertjan Bos, the mayor's spokesman. "They were noisy, unruly, a nuisance."
Bos says the weed pass has successfully halted the flow of an estimated 1.6 million foreign visitors a year who came to the city for pot.
Although the coffee shop association calculates the decline in dope-smoking visitors has wiped out income of about $185 million, Bos denies there's been any significant impact on the city's wider economy.
However, he acknowledges that the weed pass idea has not been entirely successful. Provisions designed to turn the cannabis outlets into private clubs where all clients must register as members have scared away Dutch customers, forcing the closure of coffee shops.
Recognizing the problem, the city hall announced in September it was dropping the registration requirement so customers need only show their Dutch passport or local residence papers to gain access to coffee shops.
Peelen, however, is not convinced.
He says Club 69 — located across the street from Maastricht University's arts and social science faculty and next door to an "erotic discount center" — has enough customers to keep afloat, but doubts others will reopen unless an ongoing legal challenge forces a change in city policy.
Meanwhile, he claims the new restrictions on coffee shops have led to an "explosion" of illegal street dealing.
"There is more criminality on the street, more aggression. People feel unsafe. What sort of first impression does that give to people coming from abroad?" Peelen asks.
Bos counters that tough police action has cracked down on street trading while the new measures to encourage Dutch pot smokers to return to the coffee shops will further undercut the illegal dealers.
A short walk from Club 69, Willemsen's emporium for pot cultivators is packed with lamps, fertilizers and sacks of soil. There's also a baffling array of seed varieties ranging from the modest African Widow, going for just $13 for a packet of 10, to the likes of G13 Haze New York Diesel retailing at $185.
Willemsen says the sale of cannabis seeds is completely legal and the grow-your-own business is booming since the weed pass was introduced.
"Of course it depends on what they do with them. We sell to customers who maybe want to feed them to their canaries or grow the plants for a windbreak in the garden," he says with a smile.
"There's a Dutch mentality, a lot of people thought it was tolerance, but it's not tolerance, it's creativity. People in Holland know the rules, but there's always a way to get around them."
Haze clears over Dutch cannabis law | GlobalPost
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