And my Brownings. All dozen or so
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
Snowballs. That's pretty much the theme around the hide
There's a whole new generation that doesn't know what this is. That's how u know ur getting old...lol
you only got it half right...
1. seems to be consensus is a few years is ok for some unknown reason
2. you were quoted 12 weeks and every 2 weeks you hear through the grapevine that it’s 2 weeks more
oh forgot, when it shows up it doesn’t perform as advertised
???
I'm not complaining about the 90*, it matches my 300WM perfect and it's overall feel/functionality is flawless.
That being said... I'd definitely get another in a 60* to match the axiom as soon as it becomes available.
That being said... I'd definitely get another in a 60* to match the axiom as soon as it becomes available.
You guys are killing me......wanting to change the bolt throw......some of us would just like a rifle 
You guys are killing me......wanting to change the bolt throw......some of us would just like a rifle
Amen to that...
I am pricing out a barreled receiver, and I was wondering if you barreled receiver guys could recommend a bottom metal to use. I am currently looking at PT&G AICS/M5 footprint bottom metal, and a Bell & Carlson stock in my price work up.
You guys are killing me......wanting to change the bolt throw......some of us would just like a rifle
If it were me I would not even entertain the idea of re-engineering an action that functions flawlessly, just to save 30 degrees on a bolt throw.
The easiest way, 3 lugs instead of two. Fat bolt , if you will. There are some exceptions to this rule, ( see Tikka , Enter sako p94s which is a 50 degree throw 2 lugs) This would require not only re-engineering but also re-tooling.
It's not as simple as it sounds. On all fat bolt designs , the bolt release acts as a bolt guide and there is always a slot cut on the left side of the bolt. Without this, the bolt would travel 360 degrees if not for being stopped by either side of the stock.
Bolt travel in the raceway will be slightly more smooth with the fat bolt design. That's fine and dandy, but , doesn't really matter to me as long as the bolt face is perfectly squared to the bore. Vudoo is.
The 60 degree throw will be shorter and " possibly" quicker, but it will require considerably more force to open and cock.
This introduces a variable when riding on bags or a rest by rocking the entire gun. For those of you who believe the 3 lug design would be more smooth when cocking and camming down, , think again, It's not. It was Archimedes who said : Give me a lever long enough and a fulcrum on which to place it, and I shall move the world.
The Vudoo's " Heavy" 90 degree throw eliminates this problem with a vengeance.
As to accuracy levels 2 lugs versus 3 or even 6, - this is debatable, and in my mind doubtful with a 22 rimfire.
There are other factors that contribute to the desire for 3 or even 6 lugs, but I'm stopping here or , I'll be typing all damn day. I'm sure there are things that I've missed in this such as axial forces and whatnot , but damned if im going back and starting over. I'm going shoot my super accurate gun instead. With its two locking lugs. lol
T.S.
I'm not a proponent of the 60° bolt throw for some supposed increase in accuracy, speed, etc. For the most part I agree that all other things being equal, bolt lift would be increased as the bolt handle is doing the same amount of work in ⅔ the distance, however there are plenty of examples of acceptable levels of bolt lift in the 60-70° range. I prefer it for 2 reasons:
1. Places my hand in a more natural position while cycling the bolt.
2. Keeps my hand away from the scope, especially if it has a throw lever.
I don't THINK I'll offend MB in saying this... The Vudoo is not the pinnacle of rimfire bolt actions... It is however the pinnacle right now, without a doubt. The reason it even exists at all is because Mike saw a need & an ability to improve upon an existing product (namely the 40X). Utimately it's going to come down to risk vs reward... Does Vudoo see the potential market being worth the cost of trying to do something like this. But at the end of the day we're going to buy whatever they're producing as long as it's the best thing on the market... Improving upon that is just one way to keep us buying, and I for one see it as a good thing. Why's everyone shooting 6.5's & 6mm's? .308 did just fine for years...
Just my 2¢ & all that shit...
1. Places my hand in a more natural position while cycling the bolt.
2. Keeps my hand away from the scope, especially if it has a throw lever.
I don't THINK I'll offend MB in saying this... The Vudoo is not the pinnacle of rimfire bolt actions... It is however the pinnacle right now, without a doubt. The reason it even exists at all is because Mike saw a need & an ability to improve upon an existing product (namely the 40X). Utimately it's going to come down to risk vs reward... Does Vudoo see the potential market being worth the cost of trying to do something like this. But at the end of the day we're going to buy whatever they're producing as long as it's the best thing on the market... Improving upon that is just one way to keep us buying, and I for one see it as a good thing. Why's everyone shooting 6.5's & 6mm's? .308 did just fine for years...
Just my 2¢ & all that shit...
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one question about 60 degree lift...
certain mfgs of 22lr need more force to open and close bolt, just the way it goes in 22lr
in my particular vudoo wolf extra match needs a good amount of effort at times to open and/or close
will the 60 degree exasperate this
side note...as always center x never has this problem in any of my 22's
certain mfgs of 22lr need more force to open and close bolt, just the way it goes in 22lr
in my particular vudoo wolf extra match needs a good amount of effort at times to open and/or close
will the 60 degree exasperate this
side note...as always center x never has this problem in any of my 22's
I plan to buy a Vudoo in the near future. I currently have a T1x and a CZ 457. Here is my view on the bolt throw. In theory it sounds good but after shooting rifles with a 90 and a 60-70 I don’t really not feel the difference while behind the gun. The only thing I do notice is the bolt lift seems a little easier and smoother on the 90 bolt. I’m of a mind that if it isn’t broke don’t try to fix it. The action performs exceptionally well now so why spend all the time and money to change something that functions so well.
That would depend on head spacing.
Your Vudoo is .043.
It should not be having a problem with wolf. If it is, do not even try to run CCI in it.
What you are describing sounds like rim thickness of the cartridge itself.
Or it could be that you are feeling the lead engage the rifling as the bolt cams down/forward.
Bolt throw would have nothing to do with this, so no it would not Exacerbate the problem.
T.S.
Good idea, let's sell our vudoo's and buy some rimfires from a company that proposed "high capacity magazine laws" and more recently made a 7 page manifesto that talks about increasing gun control. Cause after all like Ruger himself said, "No honest man needs more then 10 rounds in any gun"
Let's not have some fun and publicly say we'd support this manufacturer if they wanted to try something new and innovative even further.
If Vudoo comes out with a bolt throw to match my Sako's and Tikka's,... I just spent $8 grand on a 22 LR and 17 HM2. Trust me when I tell you that.
A good friend bought his V-22 bbl'd action from Altus a few months ago, and his has the first of the 2nd version breech I'd seen. My 2nd & 3rd bbl'd actions had the 1st version hybrid coned breeches, and I've had no issues with them, nor do I anticipate having any. But I think that if I were to send one of mine with flat breech back to VGW to have it coned, I'd go with the 2nd version. It just looks more robust to me.
That looks flat breech? Like the first gen?
bjay - look at the lower-right portion of the breech in the posted photo - that's about the only part of the coned portion that's visible in this view. But when you see on in person, it is obviously coned.
No sir, Gen 2 Hybrid Cone. Although there is a larger "flat" on the breech face, there's a conical feature there as Flatland1 describes.
MB
A gunsmithing question. Kidd claims their Supergrade and fixed barrel rifles have the same accuracy.
Would it be possible to have a Vudoo switch barrel rifle with the same accuracy as the fixed barrel rifle?
Would it be possible to have a Vudoo switch barrel rifle with the same accuracy as the fixed barrel rifle?
Question about muzzle velocity... I set out to shoot my new Vudoo yesterday. I ordered it with a 22" Ace barrel from Altus. We had a chance to run a demo NRL22 match for our local club with an eye toward starting a match in Austin, TX, so what better time to shoot a brand spankin new rifle but in a match? Ha ha...
Before the match, I sighted in and chrono'ed with SK Plus. I expected the numbers to be a little wonky, because the barrel was brand new. What I didn't expect was for the numbers to be as low as they were. The ammo chrono'ed at an average of 985, with an ES of 95 and an SD of 45. I suspect those numbers will smooth out a bit - even SK Plus shouldn't be that craptastic, as I understand it. We then proceeded to shoot the match, with four different folks running my rifle as a loaner. We shot the match with Midas+ (Capstone/Lapua kindly donated some Lapua and SK ammo for the demo match). I didn't chrono it, but the ballistics lined up with 985 fps through the match, as well, with the same elevation to hit targets at 100y between round 35 and round 250 on the barrel.
I know folks with 18, 20, and 22" barreled Vudoos. They all report to me that they're running about 100 fps faster than I am, and they didn't experience anything like a barrel speed up down the line. Before I purchased the 22, I'd seen the long YouTube video that discussed Vudoo's velocity testing, etc. I tried contacting Vudoo a couple different times (including a phone call to the sales department) to try to find out how much performance I might lose going with a 22" vs 20" (they say that they notice highest performance at about 21", with a drop off from there), and never got a straight answer. It was kind of frustrating. In the end, after being told that friends had 22" barrels that ran with plenty of velocity, I went that route to more closely match my centerfire gun's balance.
So, the question is, is this a normal velocity expectation? Has anyone noticed their barrel speed up after, say, a few hundred rounds or something? Anything I should try? Or do I just have a super slow barrel?
It shoots nice groups, even from the first rounds out of the barrel - sub-inch at 43 yards, and had zero issue hitting a 1/2 MOA target at that range repeatedly during the match. So, no issues there - just wish I had a little more velocity out of it?
Before the match, I sighted in and chrono'ed with SK Plus. I expected the numbers to be a little wonky, because the barrel was brand new. What I didn't expect was for the numbers to be as low as they were. The ammo chrono'ed at an average of 985, with an ES of 95 and an SD of 45. I suspect those numbers will smooth out a bit - even SK Plus shouldn't be that craptastic, as I understand it. We then proceeded to shoot the match, with four different folks running my rifle as a loaner. We shot the match with Midas+ (Capstone/Lapua kindly donated some Lapua and SK ammo for the demo match). I didn't chrono it, but the ballistics lined up with 985 fps through the match, as well, with the same elevation to hit targets at 100y between round 35 and round 250 on the barrel.
I know folks with 18, 20, and 22" barreled Vudoos. They all report to me that they're running about 100 fps faster than I am, and they didn't experience anything like a barrel speed up down the line. Before I purchased the 22, I'd seen the long YouTube video that discussed Vudoo's velocity testing, etc. I tried contacting Vudoo a couple different times (including a phone call to the sales department) to try to find out how much performance I might lose going with a 22" vs 20" (they say that they notice highest performance at about 21", with a drop off from there), and never got a straight answer. It was kind of frustrating. In the end, after being told that friends had 22" barrels that ran with plenty of velocity, I went that route to more closely match my centerfire gun's balance.
So, the question is, is this a normal velocity expectation? Has anyone noticed their barrel speed up after, say, a few hundred rounds or something? Anything I should try? Or do I just have a super slow barrel?
It shoots nice groups, even from the first rounds out of the barrel - sub-inch at 43 yards, and had zero issue hitting a 1/2 MOA target at that range repeatedly during the match. So, no issues there - just wish I had a little more velocity out of it?
Maybe the chrono?
Have the claims been validated?
Yes, certainly possible, but how is “switch-barrel” being defined?
MB
Those are horrible numbers, but I’m with Cuzz on this one, try a different chrono. I’ve never seen numbers like that from Lapua/SK. If you see the same results, shoot me a PM and we’ll get it figured out.
MB
Thanks for the thought, there, guys (you, and @Cuzz ). I wasn't super clear in my first post about the whole set of parameters - apologies, there.
I chrono'ed using a Magetospeed Sporter (set to HI2 to get a reading). I plugged the 985 fps number into my Kestrel using the CDM for SK 40gr. The numbers the Kestrel spit out resulted in center plate hits at each distance we shot at (sighted in at 43 yards, which was the closest distance, and then at 63, 84, and 109yds - we were shooting on a smallbore silhouette range).
Also, one of those same buds (who has a 20" barrel) clearly had faster muzzle velocity simply based on dope. I needed 2.9 mils to get to 109 (remember, sighted in at 43 yds). He needed 2.5, shooting the same lot of ammo side by side with me.
So... I'm not sure we should be convicting the chrono. If anything, my experience with the Kestrel perfectly predicting my dope suggests that the chrono is telling the truth?
@RAVAGE88 - I'll shoot you a PM in just a bit. Thanks!
Dave
If the claims have been validated, I do not know of them. Info from Kidd.
My understanding of switch barrel is one barrel can be removed by loosening two screws and lifting the barrel from the receiver/stock, for example Blaser R8, Mauser M03, Sauer 404, Sako Quad, Kidd Supergrade. The second barrel is inserted into the receiver/stock and the same two screws tightened. With the Sako Quad both the dimensions of the barrel and the ammunition can be changed simply by changing the barrel and possibly the magazine. With the Kidd it is just the dimensions of the barrel since cannot do an ammunition change. With the Blaser, Mauser and Sauer you can change the dimensions of the barrel with just a barrel change. An ammunition change may require a bolt head change and a magazine change in addition to the barrel change.
It has been stated that a Blaser R8 does not need the have the action bedded because of the two barrel screws in addition to the two action screws. Interesting, yes
RLS
Hmmm
But, I won’t be doing a switch-barrel design anytime soon.
MB
MB:
A switch barrel might or might not be good for the Vudoo bottom line. If my understanding is correct 17HM2 uses the same mags and bolt as 22LR. So if accuracy same for fixed and switch barrel, sell less actions and mags but more barrels.
RLS
A switch barrel might or might not be good for the Vudoo bottom line. If my understanding is correct 17HM2 uses the same mags and bolt as 22LR. So if accuracy same for fixed and switch barrel, sell less actions and mags but more barrels.
RLS
Can't believe I'm the only one with interest and nobody has chimed in on this. I was actually talking to the guys a VGW last week about exactly this and I'm still waiting for them to get back to me about it.
I think some of the local guys tried it and everybody went back to 65.
It's a complete and utter waste of time on a properly set up gun. I once asked the Guru's over at Feminist Central, " When did two or three inch pounds ever make anyone's gun more inherently accurate." Nobody could answer the question and they all got mad after years and years of advising/ misleading, and swearing this nonsense was true. You can see in the video below how overrated this is. Some of the groupings are slightly different, which could be due to Anything or any variable. The video was supposed to prove that torque settinigs make your gun more accurate. Instead, it did the opposite and exposed the lie that has been parroted by every Tom Dick and Harry ever to " Polly want a cracker."
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I played with this a bit on both the grayboe composite and mpa alum chassis stocks with the vudoo. I didn't see any significant difference in settings.
On a CZ455 I have it made huge differences (all negative) when going above 30 inch pounds, however you are dealing with big differences in stock materials and the physical size of the receiver is much smaller than a R700 action. The cz was in a chassis for a while at the chassis mfgr recommended torque of 60 inch pounds and it shot terribly, groups opened way up and bolt manipulation was much harder. That high of a torque setting was actually distorting the CZ455 action. I could loosen one action screw and the action would tilt up out of the chassis at an angle. I returned to 30 inch pounds and groups almost returned to normal and bolt manipulation also improved to what it was prior to high torque. Took it out of chassis and put it back to plywood boyds tacticool stock at 26 inch pounds. That stock is pillared so it could probably go higher, but if you dont have pillars exceeding 30 inch pounds could crush the wood causing problems in accuracy.
Cosmetically, those fingerprints do not look good on that nice barrel. lol
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