I'm using 26.3 gn of RL15 with the 88 ELD-M's in my Ackley, ADI brass and a BR4 primer. It's getting 2875 fps and an SD of 7-8. It was hitting a 2.5" plate at 400m pretty consistently so that's good enough for me accuracy-wise. I could probably tweak the seating depth etc but in reality I don't think I shoot that well that I'd notice.
- Thread starter Huckleberry75
- Start date
3031 never seems to be great at velocity imho.
Lever is netting me around 2800 fps in formed cases with 88's.
75's are still king in my book.
How long is the barrel your shooting the 88s out of and what is your COAL?
Anybody tried the Berger 85.5 and varget??? was wondering if people were getting 2900 plus with longer barrels and throats
I haven’t got my hands on the 85s. I do run the 80.5 bergers with Varget. 2900 easily without pressure. That’s with a 24” barrel
Finalized a bit of development today.
Rws fire formed brass
26” preferred barrel
80 ELD
Cci 450
27g Shooters world precision
3015 fps, sd about 8
Pulled the last shot to the right.
Found another load at 2880 which had an sd of 2.8, May explore that as The first one is a bit spicy!
Rws fire formed brass
26” preferred barrel
80 ELD
Cci 450
27g Shooters world precision
3015 fps, sd about 8
Pulled the last shot to the right.
Found another load at 2880 which had an sd of 2.8, May explore that as The first one is a bit spicy!
Attachments
I’m getting a barrel spun up with this reamer, .100 freebore. Sounds like it is ideal for 75-80 grain projectiles in a bolt gun 
80vld works great in that chamber. I run it .007” short of the 223 Remington chamber though
I have a few barrels worth of berger 80.5s, 80 SMKs, and 75 elds. I’ll see what shoots the best out of this barrel. Im going 24inch length so I’m hoping to push the 80s close to 3000. I sure am grateful for the info, and getting me in touch with Lee.
20" bartlein barrel suppressed
75g eld
26.5g varget
Started at 3050fps
Slowed and steady at 2997 fps
Lapua brass cci 450
80g eld
26.6g varget
Same
Havent chrono'd lately
Went to 27g never saw pressure. Im at 3100 rou ds and 5 firings on the brass
75g eld
26.5g varget
Started at 3050fps
Slowed and steady at 2997 fps
Lapua brass cci 450
80g eld
26.6g varget
Same
Havent chrono'd lately
Went to 27g never saw pressure. Im at 3100 rou ds and 5 firings on the brass
Mine shoots flatter to 960 then the 6.5 passes it. Dope at 1k is around .2 difference
I have some varget on the way i will try 25.1 gr in my 223ai with 75gr amax.I been running 25 gr of rl15 but am having trouble finding rl15.
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As with everything start low and be safe. 2 guys i gave this load to responded with excellent results also. For me the sd wouldnt settle until i got to the higher charges. So far both the barrel and brass have been happy. I think eld and amax bearing surfaces are different so those charges may be too hot for amax
What I like about this reamer is the 0.2242 freebore diameter. Often times the freebore diameter on the print is 0.2244 or larger. The manufacturer will never make it that tight, because they always make them over size, never under. I've always been of the opinion that a minimal diameter freebore helps align the VLDs into the rifling better and you'll get best accuracy.
Longer freebore would be better though as long as the round OAL does not turn out to be too long for your mag... but you can modify the mag to suit the longer round easy enough.
That reamer is designed around an 80amax at max modified mag length
Just ordered a reamer with .155 fb. Plan is to shoot 85.5s over 8208, 4895, or Varget.
What are best mags to run for max COAL? Have heard that modified MDT Poly mags are the way to go, but I don’t have any on hand to check.
I currently have modified metal bois from MDT and Accurate-Mag, but even those seem like they will fail to fully take advantage of the longer throat.
What are best mags to run for max COAL? Have heard that modified MDT Poly mags are the way to go, but I don’t have any on hand to check.
I currently have modified metal bois from MDT and Accurate-Mag, but even those seem like they will fail to fully take advantage of the longer throat.
The accurate mags have worked great for me. Just file where needed to reach the COAL you need.
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Now we’re talking. No issues with the follower being as short as it is and removing material from the back spacer?
In my nucleus, none. I've shot 500+ rounds through that one and no issues
So I’m about to send some dummy rounds to shilen to chamber my new 223 AI barrel I ordered from NSS. I don’t have my MDT poly mags in yet to test. I plan on using hornady 80 eldms.
Guys that have these mags, can you load the rounds right to 2.550” it lists on the site and still get them to reliably fit and feed? Or do they need to be a bit shorter for proper feeding? I was going to load them as long as I can. The end of the bearing surface/boat tail lines up right to the neck/shoulder junction of the case at this length, so that’s good too, right? Thanks for your help
Guys that have these mags, can you load the rounds right to 2.550” it lists on the site and still get them to reliably fit and feed? Or do they need to be a bit shorter for proper feeding? I was going to load them as long as I can. The end of the bearing surface/boat tail lines up right to the neck/shoulder junction of the case at this length, so that’s good too, right? Thanks for your help
Yes they will feed reliably at that length, you can also modify the mags for more room if needed.
Mines throated to put the 88's as far out as possible. I opened up the MDT mags and had to notch the feed ramp but it feeds beautifully and gives a bit more room in the case.
Do you happen to know your fb?
and what’s your coal? And I’m interested in your load data for that bullet. What speeds are you getting? Thanks Last edited:
I’m not sure on the freebore numbers, just set a dummy to as far out as I could run it and throated it to suit. There’s a fair bit buzzed out of the front of the mag. With the 88 I’m running 26.3 gn of RL15, ADI brass and a BR4 for just under 2900 in a 25” 1:7 twist.
I just put a new barrel on it which is an inch longer so it’ll be interesting to see how it goes.
I’ll measure the coal next time I load some and let you know.
Edit: just measured some when I was loading, they're 2.580 COAL at the lands. I'm jumping them .060" so there's a bit of spare room in the mag.
I just put a new barrel on it which is an inch longer so it’ll be interesting to see how it goes.
I’ll measure the coal next time I load some and let you know.
Edit: just measured some when I was loading, they're 2.580 COAL at the lands. I'm jumping them .060" so there's a bit of spare room in the mag.
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Some Hornady 75 & 80 ELD-M fire-forming loads. These are about .015 - .020 jump to lands.
24" Mullerworks barrel
Three rounds fired for each load.
All with CCI 450 primers
75 ELD-M, 2.500 OAL, Varget:
24" Mullerworks barrel
Three rounds fired for each load.
All with CCI 450 primers
75 ELD-M, 2.500 OAL, Varget:
- 24.7 - 2829 FPS - 20 ES
- 25.0 - 2873 FPS - 46 ES (3/8" group)
- 25.3 - 2918 FPS - 35 ES (3/8" group)
- 24.1 - 2600 FPS - 12 ES
- 24.4 - 2787 FPS - 39 ES (1/4" group)
- 24.7 - 2836 FPS - 46 ES (sub 1/4" group)
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I’m going to be jumping into 223AI this year as a replacement for my .260Rem within 600m.
Looking to have Med-Palma profile, 26” 1:7 twist connected with a tikka action I have.
will try to hunt down the 80-90gn class projectiles. Has anyone had experience shooting 223AI with the 75gn+ weight class projectiles out to 600yds/meters?
Thanks everyone for a great thread and the information contained herein, definitely a useful reference point.
Looking to have Med-Palma profile, 26” 1:7 twist connected with a tikka action I have.
will try to hunt down the 80-90gn class projectiles. Has anyone had experience shooting 223AI with the 75gn+ weight class projectiles out to 600yds/meters?
Thanks everyone for a great thread and the information contained herein, definitely a useful reference point.
Start at the first page of this thread and start reading, your questions will all be answered.
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600 is No problem at all, really starts to fall apart after 1200
Thanks. And questions about performance have been answered in previous pages, thanks again to everyone. All I need to do now is wait for the barrel and dies to arrive.
I’m running a straight 223 with 75 eldms and just took 1st place today in our local 600 yard match. As a matter of fact the top 3 positions were all shooting 223. We had a field of 6.5 and 6 creed, 22 br, 6br, and 6dasher and possibly more.
223 is a seriously under rated round. At 1k is has .3 mil less drop and the same wind as my 6br and 108eldms
Well done on the win. I shoot F-class with my Tikka T3x in 223Rem and I have beaten plenty of F-TR shooters with allegedly better calibres on custom actions more than a few times and the limited powder input of the 223Rem and performance derived is great.
I’m going the AI version because, as you have identified, the performance is exceptional relative to the input; 25-27gn with 75, 80-88gn projectiles versus 41-43gn of powder with my current .260 load and nearly $1 a projectile for 6.5mm (here in Aus currently if buying Berger).
I’m planning to shoot this my 223AI in PRS (out to 800m) and F-open matches (300-90) down here. Very curious to see how it goes out to 900m at my local range.
You’re gonna love it.
It will quickly become your favorite rifle.
It will quickly become your favorite rifle.
Great to hear! Have you been shooting it long? How far out have you had the chance to shoot? What sort of life are you getting out of your brass from reloads?
I bought 400 new pcs of Lapua for mine and was wondering if anyone actually tried to work up a accuracy load for fire forming with Varget or CFE 223? I have 75 and 88 ELDMs. My go to last time was 24.5 of Varget. It shot pretty good from what I can remember.
I have only had mine for about a year, so I haven’t worn out any brass yet.
I’ve taken it to 1000 with 80eld’s in a 15mph wind, and the only hard part was seeing impacts. Otherwise I had a higher hit rate than the other guys I was shooting with that day who were running their magnums.
I’ve yet to run any brass to the end of its life. I’m using some old rws I bought about 10 years ago. I think I have 7-800 pieces, so it will last a long time.
My fire form load was 24.5g of shooters world match under a 69g Rocky Mountain reloading pill. I just picked something around max load and ran it. Was a great 400 yard positional practice ammo. Check out the RMR pills for practice/fireforming. They’re really cheap and in my experience, pretty dang decent
I’ve taken it to 1000 with 80eld’s in a 15mph wind, and the only hard part was seeing impacts. Otherwise I had a higher hit rate than the other guys I was shooting with that day who were running their magnums.
I’ve yet to run any brass to the end of its life. I’m using some old rws I bought about 10 years ago. I think I have 7-800 pieces, so it will last a long time.
My fire form load was 24.5g of shooters world match under a 69g Rocky Mountain reloading pill. I just picked something around max load and ran it. Was a great 400 yard positional practice ammo. Check out the RMR pills for practice/fireforming. They’re really cheap and in my experience, pretty dang decent
I get 3050 fps with 75 eldm and 8208 out of a 20” with .062 freebore so hitting 2900 should be pretty easy from an 18”
Curious what your load data is, as I may have to rework my load since I'm getting low on H4895... and have a couple pounds of 8208
I’ll add to the list with my process.
I have more than a couple 223 AI builds.
I had my smith build me 2 AR15 barrels also. All cut with the same reamer.
I size my bolt gun brass 0.001 off the shoulder datum.
I size my gas gun brass 0.003.
My AR15 barrels are cut 0.002 deeper than the bolt gun.
This way, my sizing die adjustment does not change.
I first planned to shoot everything in Ackley.
In practice, I’ve worked up fire form loads in the AR15s that shoot very, very well.
Prepped LC brass with 24.0gr Varget and 77 SMK loaded to AR mag length.
I introduce new shooters and let kids shoot the ARs. I’m not shy about supplying the ammo.
They eject my fire formed cases that I shoot in my bolt gun.
I’ve shot Ackley formed cases in the AR, but the mag length limits the benefit with the heavies. Formed case loads in the AR with 60gr NBT or 60gr Hornady V-max are impressive on varmints. They seem to feed just fine.
Bolt gun was set up for 80gr AMAX. I’ve found the 75gr AMAX better for added velocity.
When the ELD-M came out, I found a great deal on the 75gr AMAXs, and bought a bunch.
Varget 26.0gr in the formed brass sends them at 2950fps in the bolt gun.
If I live long enough to shoot up all my 75s, I’ll try another bullet.
In terms of brass, my grandchildren won’t run out
I have more than a couple 223 AI builds.
I had my smith build me 2 AR15 barrels also. All cut with the same reamer.
I size my bolt gun brass 0.001 off the shoulder datum.
I size my gas gun brass 0.003.
My AR15 barrels are cut 0.002 deeper than the bolt gun.
This way, my sizing die adjustment does not change.
I first planned to shoot everything in Ackley.
In practice, I’ve worked up fire form loads in the AR15s that shoot very, very well.
Prepped LC brass with 24.0gr Varget and 77 SMK loaded to AR mag length.
I introduce new shooters and let kids shoot the ARs. I’m not shy about supplying the ammo.
They eject my fire formed cases that I shoot in my bolt gun.
I’ve shot Ackley formed cases in the AR, but the mag length limits the benefit with the heavies. Formed case loads in the AR with 60gr NBT or 60gr Hornady V-max are impressive on varmints. They seem to feed just fine.
Bolt gun was set up for 80gr AMAX. I’ve found the 75gr AMAX better for added velocity.
When the ELD-M came out, I found a great deal on the 75gr AMAXs, and bought a bunch.
Varget 26.0gr in the formed brass sends them at 2950fps in the bolt gun.
If I live long enough to shoot up all my 75s, I’ll try another bullet.
In terms of brass, my grandchildren won’t run out
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StaBall Match - 27.1gr
Hornady 80gr Amax
Winchester Brass
CCI 400 or similar primers
2.470 OAL
Shooting out of an 18" barrelled bolt gun, I was getting 2853fps, which tried at 870 yards to about 2820fps. SD of 11.
1/2 MOA load
Hornady 80gr Amax
Winchester Brass
CCI 400 or similar primers
2.470 OAL
Shooting out of an 18" barrelled bolt gun, I was getting 2853fps, which tried at 870 yards to about 2820fps. SD of 11.
1/2 MOA load
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I know, but I'm burning through some old primers right now to get rid of. I have shot thousands of CCI400 in gas guns without an issue.
So you are playing if it fit it ships. Seems kind off dumb, but its your face. I wouldn't be posting I use them online if I knew they were not supposed to be used for said application and were possibly dangerous.
Fair enough, updated the original post
