- Thread starter Huckleberry75
- Start date
the danger with pierced primers it to the firing pin. Especially the titanium ones. You probably get more blowback from using a suppressor.
Best to use an AI case from your chamber but you can get an idea where the lands are at with a standard 223 modified case.
I Have the 223 Ack set-up. 26”, 1:7 twist med-Palm profile on a Tikk action. I have managed to get through a bit of fire forming and have information on performance. Launching 80gn Berger VLDs Went with .5 gn increments with 2208 (Varget) starting at 24.5gn andworking up to 26.5. As per the below I’ll be focusing in around the 25.5 loads for more optimisation if I get time. I will be a running with this load for local comps for now. 
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I have asked questions on here and never added anything of value…
My load for .223 AI with a 85.5 Berger
25.5 Varget CBTO 1.9450 with a CCI 450 in Lapua brass. Trued out to 2838 out of a 26” Benchmark 7 twist cut by TS Customs shoots realistic.25 groups at 100 yards. I’ve only shot this out to 800 yards but it’s .5moa at that distance if you can read wind. At 600 yards I can hit the hanger holes in the targets
My load for .223 AI with a 85.5 Berger
25.5 Varget CBTO 1.9450 with a CCI 450 in Lapua brass. Trued out to 2838 out of a 26” Benchmark 7 twist cut by TS Customs shoots realistic.25 groups at 100 yards. I’ve only shot this out to 800 yards but it’s .5moa at that distance if you can read wind. At 600 yards I can hit the hanger holes in the targets
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I did manage ro get over 2900fps but with 26 and 26.5. Groups arguably not as good
26.0gn 2208 below
26.5gn 2208 below
I’m shooting the 85.5 Hybrid. I have found that anything over about 25.9 loosen the primer pockets with that bullet. 26.5-26.7 was around 2960 if I remember correctly. It shot just as good at those velocities but when I primed the brass you could tell it wasn’t happy. I’m using an Impact Action and I never hit what I would call pressure signs but it’s definitely there. In your case 26.0 would probably be my max charge weight with a 80. This is my second barrel and it seems these cartridges will just shoot at whatever charge you decide to throw. Play with seating depth and I bet yours tightens up.
I tend to agree. I was keen to get the speed up and make use of the capacity offered by the Ackley chambering. That said there seems to be a sweet spot between 25.5 - 26.0. That would get speeds at or just short of 2900
I just finished 'building' a 223ai and have started fire forming some old LC 05 brass I've had around for years. The purpose of this gun is to be a 'fun gun' that is (relatively) cheap to shot, compared to my 6.5 CM.
I have read through this entire thread and see no mention of anyone shooting Hornady 75 BTHP. Is there a reason for this? I'm asking because, I found a good deal (awhile back) on a case of 4000 and plan to shoot them out to 900 if possible. That is the farthest I can shoot at my range.
Just curious if I made a mistake going with the 75 BTHP instead of 75 ELD-M?
Any insight is appreciated.
Cheers
I have read through this entire thread and see no mention of anyone shooting Hornady 75 BTHP. Is there a reason for this? I'm asking because, I found a good deal (awhile back) on a case of 4000 and plan to shoot them out to 900 if possible. That is the farthest I can shoot at my range.
Just curious if I made a mistake going with the 75 BTHP instead of 75 ELD-M?
Any insight is appreciated.
Cheers
75s are fine. The elds have a better BC that will cut the wind down a little bit more but either way spotting impacts yourself past 7-800 is tough, though both bullets are capaple past that if conditions allow. I like keeping a stash of the 75 bthps for cheaper plinking ammo. They shoot well in my Bartlien but in everything else they are worse than the Sierra 77s.
If I was shooting tac class prs I would use the elds. If your inside 6-700 I wouldnt worry too much about it. See how fast you can get them going in your AI, I have seen 3000 with the 75 elds in a 26" straight 223. About as hot as I would go.
Do you know your freebore?
I also ran into minor pressure at 25.8gr of Varget with the 85.5s in a regular 223. My load of 26.3 is right arou d 2900 with a 26" barrel. I have tried some Reloader 15.5 TS and you can get close speed with less pressure also.
Thanks for the insight. I don't compete other than against myself. I just shoot for fun and relaxation. PVA osprey barrel with 100 freebore. During fire forming I shot 1 of the my best groups to date. So that has me hopeful that this barrel will like this bullet / powder combo.
I’m about to test the hornady 75gn BTHPs myself in my 223AI (26”, 1:7tw Tikka action). I’ll report ack what results I get.
They seem very to good from a price perspective and availability is good. Pending performance I might make them my load for 500m and save the Berger 80gn VLDs for longer ranges with 223AI
I look forward to hearing how these preform for you. I agree, if they shoot 'pretty good' they will be worth it to me... cheap trigger time
Both my 223AIs shoot the best with H4895, but I'm down to my last 4# and it's been impossible to get more for about 3 years so I'm searching for alternative powders to try with 72-80gr bullets. Suggestions?
I've tried varget; it worked well but velocity and accuracy weren't as good as H4895. I do have a bunch of it though, so it can be a fall back.
Tried AR comp as well as I have a bunch of it. AR comp kicks major ass for me in terms of velocity and accuracy with 40-53gr stuff in the 223s and 223ai but the accuracy just wasn't there with the 72-80gr stuff.
Considering giving staball match a try, as well as N540. Any other powders I should be looking at?
I've tried varget; it worked well but velocity and accuracy weren't as good as H4895. I do have a bunch of it though, so it can be a fall back.
Tried AR comp as well as I have a bunch of it. AR comp kicks major ass for me in terms of velocity and accuracy with 40-53gr stuff in the 223s and 223ai but the accuracy just wasn't there with the 72-80gr stuff.
Considering giving staball match a try, as well as N540. Any other powders I should be looking at?
N150 N140 N135 Varget RL15 TAC xbr8208
Ramshot TAC. It's available, cheaper than others, fast and accurate, but can be a little dirty and temp sensitive.
4166 probably another can't get. Maybe BLC-2.
Yep, all the enduron powders were discontinued late 2022. Hodgdon hinted they may be available again at some point, but when hodgdon can't produce or ship enough of their historically most popular powders I don't see the enduron line coming back.
Temp sensitive worries me, because in one of the places I go for a week long shooting/hunting trip at least once and sometimes twice a year you can see anywhere from low to mid-20s in the mornings to low 90s in the afternoon during the same trip depending on how the weather is. H4895 has always coped well with that.
Right now I'm leaning towards trying staball match and vihtavuori N540 as both have been regularly available. 8208 is always suggested for 223, but availability these last couple years hasn't been great. Better than H4895 though, I've had a bunch on backorder for 2.5 years now...
As I mentioned earlier, I tried varget and while it worked pretty good it wasn't as good as H4895 for accuracy or speed. I'd like to find something that works better than varget and is comparable to my existing H4895 loads in terms of accuracy and speed. Ideally my backorder for 40# of H4895 shows up and I'd be set for quite a few years, lol
Hodgdon doesn’t produce enduron powders. It’s made by someone else. They just sell it.
Yep, enduron was made by the general dynamics plant in Valleyfield, Quebec; hodgdon really just marketed and sold the stuff to reloaders, like they do with most of their offerings. Not sure if the plant is still making the enduron powders for ammo manufacturers, but we're certainly not getting it for reloading anymore under the IMR/Hodgdon branding.
How are you sizing your brass? I typically full length size but Im getting confused, or over thinking, the whole shoulder bump part on the AI. Been fire forming some lapua and ready to start load development. Have a couple different powders Im gonna try but running the same bullet.I saw an "All Ackey" thread, but nothing specific to just the 223AI.
Fire Forming load
LC Brass - 1x fired and prepped to FF
CCI 450
IMR8208XBR @ 24.0gn
Berger 80.5gn seated at 2.485" COAL
22" 7 twist Rock Creek #4
Defiance Deviant
Jon Beanland built
5x @ 100yds measured 0.2455" CTC
It a savage action with a criterion 22", Suppressed, match grade 1:7 barrel.
I’ve been testing loads with the 75 ELD-M in 223AI to see if I can adopt them as a cheap projectile for 300-500m comps. Using mag length OALs and ADI2206H (H4895) and ADI fire formed brass went with the following loads over shot groups
24.5 /mean 2906fps / sd-12
25.0/ mean 2987fps / sd - 10
25.5/ mean 3055fps/ sd- 12
26.0/ mean 3106 / sd- 6 *chrony only counted 3 shots
24.5 /mean 2906fps / sd-12
25.0/ mean 2987fps / sd - 10
25.5/ mean 3055fps/ sd- 12
26.0/ mean 3106 / sd- 6 *chrony only counted 3 shots
Set up the dies to FL size and bump the shoulder about 1.5thou. The nice thing about an Ackley is that the brass hardly grows at all. What bullet are you planning to shoot and powders? That 7tw will do a lot of work with the heavies.
Question for you guys... do you find feeding is more difficult with the Ackley case? I find myself double stroking the bold because the case body sometimes gets hung up in the chamber.. I can push feed the round 75% into battery and need to back off the bolt pressure, then send it home.
I assumed this was due to the minimal body taper on the Ackley case, but don't see alot of guys complaining about it... now I'm thinking my Redding FL die is on the larger side of the specs and the chamber is on the lower end.
Now that I think of it, I already had to send the FL sizing die to my Smith to trim the base (could not bump the shoulder as received from Redding).
I assumed this was due to the minimal body taper on the Ackley case, but don't see alot of guys complaining about it... now I'm thinking my Redding FL die is on the larger side of the specs and the chamber is on the lower end.
Now that I think of it, I already had to send the FL sizing die to my Smith to trim the base (could not bump the shoulder as received from Redding).
I don't have any issues currently with feeding in a Rem 700 and an impact SA, using DBM's and MDT plastic mags.
What action, and what is the condition of your extractor? Also is your chamber relatively clean?
I have noticed that if shoot suppressed a bunch that fired cases get filthy dirty, and the chamber too, compared to shooting with just a muzzle brake. Also I had an issue early on with the base of the case just ahead of the web not getting sized down enough (had to modify the case holder as I recall, resulting in more effort to remove the cases.
I reworked my loads as well, and think that I tossed that batch of brass as I purchased 1 fired LC, and it may have been fired in a MG(oversized chamber)
What action, and what is the condition of your extractor? Also is your chamber relatively clean?
I have noticed that if shoot suppressed a bunch that fired cases get filthy dirty, and the chamber too, compared to shooting with just a muzzle brake. Also I had an issue early on with the base of the case just ahead of the web not getting sized down enough (had to modify the case holder as I recall, resulting in more effort to remove the cases.
I reworked my loads as well, and think that I tossed that batch of brass as I purchased 1 fired LC, and it may have been fired in a MG(oversized chamber)
How much did your smith trim off?
LP Fuzion.. chamber is clean. It's more of the middle to base of the case binding on the chamber's rear chamfer as it goes into battery.
I'm not sure..
I tried Redding back when I first got into to shooting.223ai, after a few barrels I ran into one that I was tearing the rims off of cases during extraction. I was going to get a custom sizing die from Whidden but cheaped out and bought the Lee set and couldn’t be happier. I’m still using them now four years later.
The Redding die worked well for me.
Attachments
yep, works great with Redding dies
How was the accuracy?
I never understood the reason to go AI. I get 2850fps with standard 223 at 2.5" oal with 80 grain amax. 24.3 grains rl 15
Is anyone using norma brass in their 223 AI? I picked up some a while back from @RavenRocksPrecision but have not loaded any of them yet. I am guessing that the primer pockets may not hold up if mid to upper range loads are used? Thanks.
To the poster that never understood the Ackley Improved version, well they look way cool, increase the powder capacity, cut down on trimming, and look way cool.
To the poster that never understood the Ackley Improved version, well they look way cool, increase the powder capacity, cut down on trimming, and look way cool.
Go to your local academy and buy a 200 range pack of Winchester lake city (if they still have some)
Lake city for bulk brass, Lapua brass (if you can find it), loaded Berger ammunition (this is what I had to do), or starline.
Since I dumped way too much money on loaded Berger ammo for the Lapua brass i was able to find some Lapua .223. Friends and I bought all 4200 pieces the guy had lol. We have been searching for Lapua .223 for years.
Ha, my ex was screwing around with a Asian guy with the last name of Wong. I told her she had the wong guy, LOL.
100fps? Really?2950>2850
That’s s why lol
Still doesn't seem worth it. If for nothing else, half the barrel life
I read it adds at least an 1/8” of length down below…
