300 PRC update

b2lee

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I’m being lazy here, what’s the consensus on reloading dies? I mostly use redding or forsters dies but I don’t see 300 prc dies on forsters site, I can get redding type s which I‘m good with just not sure if the seating stem works with A tips. Saw hornady’s match grade set they look ok they have a seating stem for the A tips but no one has a .334 bushing for sale.
How about a Redding Type S with .334 or appropriate bushing. Take the decapping pin and expander ball out and throw it somewhere. Get you a mandrel die with the appropriate sized mandrel for your brass thickness and desired neck tension....then get an LE Wilson 300PRC Bullet seating arbor press die.

Want to talk about near perfect rounds...these things will eliminate any excuses for shooting poorly....atleast from that part of your reloading/shooting.
 
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Devildog

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@b2lee i normally decap on a designated press with a lee decapper. So I normally take out the decaping pin and expander like you said. i don’t have any experience with a arbor press, I don’t have any worries about using one just hadnt gone down that road yet but I was on Wilson’s site early this morning and they had everything in stock. Which seating stem do you use standard or vlds for the A tips? Sounds like a good way to go, thanks for your insight.
 
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b2lee

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@Devildog once you start seating with the LE Wilson Arbor die...and notice how perfect the out come is....you will be blown away. My LE Wilson bullet seater die is sooooo precise....when the brass goes up inside the die...it is supported on all sides. I used to check my loaded rounds on a concentricity tool....now I don't bother with the ones from the LE Wilson die...because they are spot on....everytime.
 
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Range Report/Ladder Test

Rifle: CA MPR CF 300 PRC 26" 1:8
Suppressor: SC Omega
Scope: NF NXS
Bullets: Beger 215 HT and 245 EOL
Powder: VV N565
Brass: new ADG ran through Sinclair .002 mandrel
Primer: F210M
Chrono: MagnetoSpeed V3
Location: Central TX
Temp: 97 deg F

Berger 215 HT
CBTO: 2.930" (.020 off lands)
COAL: ~3.708"

(grs) - (fps)
77.0 - 2907
77.2 - 2920
77.4 - 2913
77.6 - Bad reading, adjusted V3
77.8 - 2956
78.0 - 2949
78.2 - 2962
78.4 - 2954
78.6 - 2979
78.8 - 2996
79.0 - 2979
79.2 - 3007
79.4 - 2996
79.6 - 3020
79.8 - 3038
80.0 - 3033
80.2 - 3038
80.4 - 3032
80.6 - 3035
80.8 - 3044
81.0 - 3065 (little harder on bolt lift, no ejector marks)
81.2 - 3095
81.4 - 3082
81.6 - 3080
81.8 - 3082
82.0 - 3103 (hard bolt lift and strong ejector marks)

4rds of 80.2: Avg=3049 SD=6.9 ES=16

Berger 245 EOL
CBTO: 2.903" (.070 off lands)
COAL: ~3.738" (longest mag would allow)

73.8 - 2751
74.0 - 2727
74.2 - 2741
74.4 - 2745
74.6 - 2753
74.8 - 2751
75.0 - 2765
75.2 - 2773
75.4 - 2787
75.6 - 2787
75.8 - 2795
76.0 - 2807
76.2 - 2829
76.4 - 2809
76.6 - 2820 (hard bolt lift and ejector marks)

I also loaded four rounds of the 215 at 80.2 just for the hell of it, see attached pic for 3 shot group at 500yds.

Seems like my nodes are around 78.0-78.2 and 80.0-80.4 for the 215. And 74.7 and 75.5 for the 245.

Going to load up 5 of each in those ranges and then mess with seating depth on the 215.
 

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b2lee

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@LongRangeAggie Thanks for testing out the 245 EOL's with VV 565 and ADG Brass. I know you have a 26" vs my 28" but the speeds seem disappointing to me on the 245....I push the 250 A-Tips at 2950 or so...but I'll re-frame from showing you the head of my brass.

I don't load my rounds magazine length though...because for my activities using these rounds...I'm going really really long...and can single feed them.
 

LongRangeAggie

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@LongRangeAggie Thanks for testing out the 245 EOL's with VV 565 and ADG Brass. I know you have a 26" vs my 28" but the speeds seem disappointing to me on the 245....I push the 250 A-Tips at 2950 or so...but I'll re-frame from showing you the head of my brass.

I don't load my rounds magazine length though...because for my activities using these rounds...I'm going really really long...and can single feed them.
Yeah I thought I would be up to high 2800s low 2900s with the 245. I’ll probably just stick with the 215 at 3050ish. We’ll see which groups better...
 

LongRangeAggie

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@LongRangeAggie Thanks for testing out the 245 EOL's with VV 565 and ADG Brass. I know you have a 26" vs my 28" but the speeds seem disappointing to me on the 245....I push the 250 A-Tips at 2950 or so...but I'll re-frame from showing you the head of my brass.

I don't load my rounds magazine length though...because for my activities using these rounds...I'm going really really long...and can single feed them.
I called Berger a while back and they said to run N570 with the 245. They were getting max 2826 with Hornady brass. They said they only got max of 2731 with N565.
 

b2lee

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I called Berger a while back and they said to run N570 with the 245. They were getting max 2826 with Hornady brass. They said they only got max of 2731 with N565.
Did you ask them to send you some N570?...heh Atleast N565 is in stock now. I'm thinking of selling my Retumbo and buying a new truck ;)
 

RanchhandTCR

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Im gonna chime in since I have not found a reliable source for people who are shooting lighter projectiles such as the 208 and 215 berger. I built this rifle with the intention of it being a do it all from point blank to shooting across the country to get a deer. (Trying to be funny).

My rig is built on the following.

ARC NUCLEUS
GEISSELE SUPER 700 TRIGGER
PROOF SENDERO C.F 1-9 TWIST FINISHED AT 26"
McMillan Game Warden
Atlas Worxs BDM with CIP AICS MAGS.
Built by Phoenix Custom Rifles with their custom remer with a .140" shorter F.B compared to SAMMI.

Currently with 215s (surepressed) and RL26 at 76.5gn and CBTO of 2.665" I achieved a velocity of 2977fps and sd of 9 in a 10 round string. No pressure signs at 110* and 4400' DA I made this load just to be able to get the rifle zeroed but made 3 consecutive impacts at 630 yards with guess dope on a 10" plate. Felt like I hit the easy button on that load.

With 208 Bergers and 77.7 to 78gn H1000 with a 2.665" Was hovering in the 2925-2935fps range. I will be continuing my development today to see how the 208s will do.

Accurcy has been meh, As I had to source some real action screws since the BDM kit did not come with them as they utilize factory screws. FYI Red Hawk Rifles sells allen keyed action screws that fit factory bottom metal.

Hope the range trip today makes me grin.
 

TripleBull

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Im gonna chime in since I have not found a reliable source for people who are shooting lighter projectiles such as the 208 and 215 berger.
Pretty sure there is some load data here:


Most of that came from this thread.
 
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b2lee

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Bah...I gotta get to the range soon to dial in a load for some 250 A-Tips for 2000+ yard targets. I'm still running the same barrel until the next one is delivered. About 1200 rounds and it is still shooting acceptable vertical. I worked today on Labor Day and will work every day until Next Tuesday....then maybe a range day and some ELR next weekend.

Maybe I'll just take a guess at the powder load from a previous test...seat them long...and show up at the comp....heh
 

JB.IC

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Guys I’ve had a lot of issues with some recent rifle builds: failed triggers, brass, and scope. The trifecta of issues that has killed a lot of my time.

I say all that to lend an excuse why I’m too lazy to do a quick search. I’m defeated.

BR-2 or 215m? I have both and don’t care which one I use. Will be used with VV N565
 

b2lee

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Guys I’ve had a lot of issues with some recent rifle builds: failed triggers, brass, and scope. The trifecta of issues that has killed a lot of my time.

I say all that to lend an excuse why I’m too lazy to do a quick search. I’m defeated.

BR-2 or 215m? I have both and don’t care which one I use. Will be used with VV N565
I'm currently using 215M's with VV N565 and 230 and 250gr A-Tips.

I was using 210M's and hand no problems at all. However, with the recent problems with finding primers...I've switched to 215M's...because I can buy more than I can afford. Sportsman's Warehouse has them for $29.99 locally....supposed to only buy one at a time....generally I grab a box everytime I go in...now I have a decent stockpile. Yesterday when I went in...I bet they had more than 200 boxes of 1000 primers on the shelf...and everyone of them were Large Rifle....different brands and quality...but all LRP.

So...While I haven't used any BR-2's....I haven't really seen a difference between 210's and 215's....even at the one mile targets and beyond.
 

JB.IC

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I'm currently using 215M's with VV N565 and 230 and 250gr A-Tips.

I was using 210M's and hand no problems at all. However, with the recent problems with finding primers...I've switched to 215M's...because I can buy more than I can afford. Sportsman's Warehouse has them for $29.99 locally....supposed to only buy one at a time....generally I grab a box everytime I go in...now I have a decent stockpile. Yesterday when I went in...I bet they had more than 200 boxes of 1000 primers on the shelf...and everyone of them were Large Rifle....different brands and quality...but all LRP.

So...While I haven't used any BR-2's....I haven't really seen a difference between 210's and 215's....even at the one mile targets and beyond.
thats a very good point. Thanks for sharing. I need to check my sportsman’s warehouse and do the same thing. I’m running low on BR-2s but if 215m are in-stock I’ll follow the same idea.
 

b2lee

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Btw.....a little load development today at the short range gearing up for this weekends TVP ELR Invitational. Today I was trying to play with seating depths to get better groups and rezero my scope for the 250 Atips instead of the 230 Atips. I loaded up my pet load of VV N565 and seating depths of OAL 3.8565, 3.8610, 3.8680, 3.8720, 3.8770, and 3.8825.

I got group sizes of .751, .690, .450, .500, .689, and 1.01. The last one was me....probably should have been around .750.

On the 3.8680 load that shot the .450" group I got a muzzle velocity on 5 shots of: 2901, 2908, 2901, 2906, and 2905. Overall...the muzzle velocity didn't change that much between each seating depth.....28" Bartlein 1-9tw.

1200+ rounds down the tubes...this barrel has seen its best days and is fading quickly...but I'll take a 2.8SD, MV over 2900 with a 250gr A-Tip...and a sub half inch group.....that was today...tomorrow it could be like a light switch and turn off. Today was a beautiful 75F, 60% humidity, 900ft ASL, with a light 5mph 6'oclock wind.

I miss the days when this thing could shoot atleast one sub .250" group out of 5...but alas...those days are over for this tired thing. Maybe it can get me through just one last event.
 

JB.IC

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Need a quick sanity check.

230 Berger Hybrids. RCC brass. 215m. N565. 30” Barlein 8twist.
about 80 rounds down the tube

71.0 - 2825fps
72.0 - 2884fps

Does that seem slow? 2960-2970fps is where I’m seeing pressure.
 

Defender3

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I've read the majority of posts here and I appreciate the time people have taken to detail their loads, experience, etc.

I'm going to join the 300 PRC club shortly. I have an AXMC coming (300WM) and Dave Tooley is spinning up a 300PRC barrel for me. Finally located some ammo, some components (N565, Berger 220s, Hornady brass) and ordered some LE Wilson "stuff." One of these days I hope to find some RL26 and I'm on too many wait lists to even remember (including for ADG brass).

I shoot regularly at Quantico to 1,035y (using a .260R) and have the ability to stretch to a mile a few times a year. I thought I'd cheat a bit and move to the 300PRC.

I may have missed it along the way, but has anyone developed the QuickLoad specs for the 300PRC?
 

b2lee

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Need a quick sanity check.

230 Berger Hybrids. RCC brass. 215m. N565. 30” Barlein 8twist.
about 80 rounds down the tube

71.0 - 2825fps
72.0 - 2884fps

Does that seem slow? 2960-2970fps is where I’m seeing pressure.
What is the case volume of a fired piece of RCC brass? Nothing wrong with 2884....I'm the speed demon...but I'm starting to back my loads down some....#5 firing of ADG brass....already throwing away pieces for loose primer pockets :( Yep...time to back the 250 Atips down to a milder load of the lower 2900's....heh.
 
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b2lee

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I may have missed it along the way, but has anyone developed the QuickLoad specs for the 300PRC?
While not Quickloads...I did do the spec on the 300PRC for GRT Tools...Or Gordon's Reloading Tools....pretty dead on for my real world data as well. I also added the 230 and 250 A-Tips....one day I'll play with some Bergers....probably on my next barrel...which will be soon.
 

Swampbug

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Need a quick sanity check.

230 Berger Hybrids. RCC brass. 215m. N565. 30” Barlein 8twist.
about 80 rounds down the tube

71.0 - 2825fps
72.0 - 2884fps

Does that seem slow? 2960-2970fps is where I’m seeing pressure.
Most loads for a 230, N 565 are in the 76 -77 gr range getting 2865 to 2925 velocity.
 
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b2lee

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Most loads for a 230, N 565 are in the 76 -77 gr range getting 2865 to 2925 velocity.
Yea...but RCC brass is lathe turned brass that has a lot less internal volume available...so you have to start a lot lower and work up. With Lathe turned brass you have to be really careful with trying the hot pet loads listed online.
 

JB.IC

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What is the case volume of a fired piece of RCC brass? Nothing wrong with 2884....I'm the speed demon...but I'm starting to back my loads down some....#5 firing of ADG brass....already throwing away pieces for loose primer pockets :( Yep...time to back the 250 Atips down to a milder load of the lower 2900's....heh.
no idea on the case volume. I’ll have to check when I get them when I clean up the brass.

I don’t get why so many others are getting similar speeds or faster but with 24-26” barrels and I’m running a 30”
 

JB.IC

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I'll just say it's not a 300 Norma so you shouldn't expect the same velocities using 10 grs less powder. Upper 2800's are all I would expect with reasonable loads. Extreme velocities mean extremely short brass life and to some degree shorter barrel life. Nothing is free. YMMV
true. Thanks for the reminder
 

phlegethon

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no idea on the case volume. I’ll have to check when I get them when I clean up the brass.

I don’t get why so many others are getting similar speeds or faster but with 24-26” barrels and I’m running a 30”
On the internet everyone’s rifle shoots 2-300fps faster and group sizes are at least 50% lower than you usually see in reality.
 

JB.IC

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On the internet everyone’s rifle shoots 2-300fps faster and group sizes are at least 50% lower than you usually see in reality.
I understand that. We see it everyday on social media but I’ve see some things first hand that’s hard to believe.

For example, I have a buddy who did his first chamber job on a 6.5CM. We were shooting out to 2100yds with our 300PRC, 30SM, 375Cheytac, and 375EnABELR. He got his 6.5CM out to shoot it while the barrel were cooling of the other rifles. He connected 6 or so back to back shots at 2100yds. Then missed one or two and then made several more back to back shots and continued through 50 rounds he brought. He made more connections on the 2100yd target with his 6.5cm that day than all the other rifles combined. I had my target vision cam on the target because you can’t spot impacts in Arizona mirage.

So because I’ve seen some weird stuff happen, I try not to dismiss someone initially.
 

phlegethon

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I understand that. We see it everyday on social media but I’ve see some things first hand that’s hard to believe.

For example, I have a buddy who did his first chamber job on a 6.5CM. We were shooting out to 2100yds with our 300PRC, 30SM, 375Cheytac, and 375EnABELR. He got his 6.5CM out to shoot it while the barrel were cooling of the other rifles. He connected 6 or so back to back shots at 2100yds. Then missed one or two and then made several more back to back shots and continued through 50 rounds he brought. He made more connections on the 2100yd target with his 6.5cm that day than all the other rifles combined. I had my target vision cam on the target because you can’t spot impacts in Arizona mirage.

So because I’ve seen some weird stuff happen, I try not to dismiss someone initially.
Oh, I agree. I think people in this thread are telling the truth about their results (not sure about some other places) but you also have to filter that with your own results and risk tolerance.
 

Dippy

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Shiny new deer rifle for this year. Just ordered the brass and 215 hybrids for vaporizing deer lungs come nov
Rem sendero, 28” 9 twist fluted bartlein, chambered and trued by Dave Tooley. My second 300 PRC, this one has a non Sammi spec chamber, spec’d by Dave for handloads 7CD283E0-46D7-46AC-BBEE-6240DADFEFC9.jpeg
 

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I have never reloaded Hornady cases before or fired their ammunition and I'm questioning the results I am getting with my PRC.

I have a Ruger Precision RIfle with a 26 inch factory barrel. I got the following results:

- Hornady 225 ELD-M ammo went 2870 FPS. After firing, I couldn't get the cases to re-chamber. The case head had swelled .0019.

- 77 grains of RL 25 (max book load) in new Hornady cases went 2873 FPS. Fired cases would not re-chamber. Case head had swelled .0022.

- 74.4 grains of RL 26 (two rungs from the top of published max) in new Hornady cases went 2843 FPS. Fired cases would re-chamber but had swelled .0008.

I have reloaded 6.5 x 47 Lapua for years and even when I really stepped on it, I have never had a problem getting the fired cases to re-chamber. Is this normal for Hornady brass?
 

phlegethon

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I have never reloaded Hornady cases before or fired their ammunition and I'm questioning the results I am getting with my PRC.

I have a Ruger Precision RIfle with a 26 inch factory barrel. I got the following results:

- Hornady 225 ELD-M ammo went 2870 FPS. After firing, I couldn't get the cases to re-chamber. The case head had swelled .0019.

- 77 grains of RL 25 (max book load) in new Hornady cases went 2873 FPS. Fired cases would not re-chamber. Case head had swelled .0022.

- 74.4 grains of RL 26 (two rungs from the top of published max) in new Hornady cases went 2843 FPS. Fired cases would re-chamber but had swelled .0008.

I have reloaded 6.5 x 47 Lapua for years and even when I really stepped on it, I have never had a problem getting the fired cases to re-chamber. Is this normal for Hornady brass?
Where are you measuring the case head, and are you using a blade micrometer?
 

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Just in advance of the extractor groove. I used a micrometer and a set of calipers. I don't have a blade micrometer.
 

phlegethon

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Just in advance of the extractor groove. I used a micrometer and a set of calipers. I don't have a blade micrometer.
I could be wrong, but I’ve read a lot of discussion about this and it sounds like that amount of expansion at the pressure ring is normal, and without using a blade micrometer your measurement will probably include the pressure ring. The fact that you’re seeing this with factory ammo is also consistent with that, as it shouldn’t have extremely high pressure. As for not being able to rechamber a fired case without sizing, I don’t think that’s unusual. It depends on the chamber geometry.
 
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robb_va

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If a fired case comes out without extreme using measures then it should go back in.
What happens when you try and put the fired case back in?
After firing the cases will extract without significant effort. There will be an occasional faint ejector mark on the case head, but no swipe.

The ones that stretched .0019 and .0022 will not re-chamber. The bolt will not close.

The ones that stretched .0008 will re-chamber and the bolt closes.

Also, the ones that stretched .0019 and .0022 require significant effort to run though my sizing die (Forster FLS - non bushing/Imperial wax). I have stuck 3 in the die and ripped the case head off and needed a case head tool to remove the remainder of the case from the sizing die.
 

DAVETOOLEY

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If you see anything on the case head you've exceeded the yield point of the brass. That can vary from lot to lot and of course between manufacturers. And it happens often with factory ammo. I may be wrong but something doesn't seem quite right with the factory chamber.
 

DAVETOOLEY

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After firing the cases will extract without significant effort. There will be an occasional faint ejector mark on the case head, but no swipe.

The ones that stretched .0019 and .0022 will not re-chamber. The bolt will not close.

The ones that stretched .0008 will re-chamber and the bolt closes.

Also, the ones that stretched .0019 and .0022 require significant effort to run though my sizing die (Forster FLS - non bushing/Imperial wax). I have stuck 3 in the die and ripped the case head off and needed a case head tool to remove the remainder of the case from the sizing die.
I've never had a Ruger through the shop so somebody correct me if I'm wrong. It has 1" diameter threads. If that is indeed true the chamber wall thickness, while it's safe, cannot handle high pressure rounds that diameter. When fired the case expands then the threaded steel tenon expands. If pressure gets to high the brass expands beyond its yield point and stretches to a diameter where when pressure subsides the brass then contracts slightly. At that point it is larger than the steel chamber which has returned to it's original size. Sounds like what's happening to you.
 
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robb_va

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I've never had a Ruger through the shop so somebody correct me if I'm wrong. It has 1" diameter threads. If that is indeed true the chamber wall thickness, while it's safe, cannot handle high pressure rounds that diameter. When fired the case expands then the threaded steel tenon expands. If pressure gets to high the brass expands beyond its yield point and stretches to a diameter where when pressure subsides the brass then contracts slightly. At that point it is larger than the steel chamber which has returned to it's original size. Sounds like what's happening to you.
Thank you!