Lake City is really good for ARs and bolt guns.
- Thread starter padom
- Start date
What's left behind at the range.
I use what makes the biggest run at the time.
The cheap stuff piles up quickly and makes the biggest batch.
If you can get to or below 1/2 moa with range pickup brass in an ar why would you buy anything?
Yep Lapua makes Brass cases and at one time reasonably priced . Box of 100 X #25 to a case ran Me $285.40 delivered a lifetime supply #2500 Match cases . Late 80's through 90's L C Cases have also served Me well .
My humble contribution. I shot these 25rds in the time it took to load 5 in my 5rd mag, shoot, load 5 more, shoot and so on. The center is the first group, top right the 2nd then go counter clockwise from there. 100 yds fired off a rear protektor bag and caldwell rock jr front rest
18" wilson combat super sniper, fluted, 223 wylde
77smk with cannelure, i did not crimp
AA2520. 25.0gr.
2.255 OAL
Norma nickel cases.
remington 7-1/2 primer
.5 gr less than book max for 5.56 data.
2725fps average
31fps spread
11 fps SD
18" wilson combat super sniper, fluted, 223 wylde
77smk with cannelure, i did not crimp
AA2520. 25.0gr.
2.255 OAL
Norma nickel cases.
remington 7-1/2 primer
.5 gr less than book max for 5.56 data.
2725fps average
31fps spread
11 fps SD
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I found an exact clone of 77 SMK Federal Gold Medal Match using Staball Match... I mean EXACT!
77 SMK
Lake City Match prepped brass (same year, annealed, resized, flash hole deburred, trimmed/chamfered)
24.1 gr of Staball Match
Rem 7-1/2 primer
COL = 2.240" (same length as FGMM)
Velocity is (20" barrel) 2645 fps, SD of 9 (same velocity and SD as FGMM)
They both shoot about 1/2 MOA out of my 20" 1:7.7 4 groove Bartlein AR rifle with CLE chamber and both have the exact same velocity and SD's.
This is a great combo because the bullets, powder, cases and primers are readily available to everyone. It also helps that Staball Match meters great through a progressive!!!!! You can mass produce these puppies!!!
77 SMK
Lake City Match prepped brass (same year, annealed, resized, flash hole deburred, trimmed/chamfered)
24.1 gr of Staball Match
Rem 7-1/2 primer
COL = 2.240" (same length as FGMM)
Velocity is (20" barrel) 2645 fps, SD of 9 (same velocity and SD as FGMM)
They both shoot about 1/2 MOA out of my 20" 1:7.7 4 groove Bartlein AR rifle with CLE chamber and both have the exact same velocity and SD's.
This is a great combo because the bullets, powder, cases and primers are readily available to everyone. It also helps that Staball Match meters great through a progressive!!!!! You can mass produce these puppies!!!
Do you know what your BTO measurement is?
Not long ago got SNAFU by some 308 bullets that the ogive was shoved forward more on and had to shove in the case further.
Ate some powder room.
Currently working on 69g smks that got sidetracked but well under 1 moa and have to test gas block settings next trip so I can finalize load.
Was running my 52g and 55g loads fine but intermittent feed problems with the 69g.
Will have to remeasure my chamber, have been running the 69's at 1.780 cbto nominal coal of 2.25 I think getting tight in my wylde chamber. Testing incomplete but think 2800 fps max in my 20 barrel.
I hate to eat up another 200 fps to get to another 8g of bullet, not sure its worth it.
The 69's are looking to be sub 1/2 moa as is with the small incomplete sample test.
My thinking may be flawed as is customary.
I hate to eat up another 200 fps to get to another 8g of bullet, not sure its worth it.
The 69's are looking to be sub 1/2 moa as is with the small incomplete sample test.
My thinking may be flawed as is customary.
AR-15 chambered in 5.56 NATO
16" x 1:9
LC brass
CCI 450
69 gr SMK
CBTO: 1.846" (COAL would be 2.255-.260)
Research on the interwebs said AR Plus is similar in burn rate to AA 2230. So I cross referenced Western Powders AA 2230 5.56 69 SMK load data against the Shooter's World 5.56 data... SW didn't have a listing for the 69 SMK, but they had data for the Hornady 68 BTHP and a Nosler 70 gr bullet. I split the difference between those and it was within a few tenths of the WP data. So it's pretty doggone close to AA 2230.
I stopped at 25.0 gr max and that gave me the best group (.35" CTC). Primers looked great although I did have an ejector mark on one piece of brass... But honestly it could have been there from a previous firing and I didn't pay attention. Nothing I would get in much of a twist over, it was pretty light.
Velocity averaged 2849 which seemed incredible to me. But the brass and primers seemed fine. ES was 42 on those 3 shots. Not great. But I didn't figure that would matter too much out to 600 which is about all I would try with it if it holds up.
There was another "decent" group at 23.1 gr (IIRC) although it did throw one of the 3 out. But that was very likely my fault... Didn't feel too great when I touched it off.
This gun likes the 69's a lot. It will group them well if I don't push it hard and heat up the skinny ass M4 profile barrel.
Mike
16" x 1:9
LC brass
CCI 450
69 gr SMK
CBTO: 1.846" (COAL would be 2.255-.260)
Research on the interwebs said AR Plus is similar in burn rate to AA 2230. So I cross referenced Western Powders AA 2230 5.56 69 SMK load data against the Shooter's World 5.56 data... SW didn't have a listing for the 69 SMK, but they had data for the Hornady 68 BTHP and a Nosler 70 gr bullet. I split the difference between those and it was within a few tenths of the WP data. So it's pretty doggone close to AA 2230.
I stopped at 25.0 gr max and that gave me the best group (.35" CTC). Primers looked great although I did have an ejector mark on one piece of brass... But honestly it could have been there from a previous firing and I didn't pay attention. Nothing I would get in much of a twist over, it was pretty light.
Velocity averaged 2849 which seemed incredible to me. But the brass and primers seemed fine. ES was 42 on those 3 shots. Not great. But I didn't figure that would matter too much out to 600 which is about all I would try with it if it holds up.
There was another "decent" group at 23.1 gr (IIRC) although it did throw one of the 3 out. But that was very likely my fault... Didn't feel too great when I touched it off.
This gun likes the 69's a lot. It will group them well if I don't push it hard and heat up the skinny ass M4 profile barrel.
Mike
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I've been working on a good load for 62gr Speer Gold Dots in my 13.7" and 14.5" uppers. I think I finally found it. I've tried 4 different powders. Got some okay groups. I've seen some recommendations using H335. I went back and forth with that powder but it was never really great. To be honest Ramshot Xterminator has given the best accuracy with multiple bullets. I picked up a pound of Shooters World Tactical Rifle to try. I used the load data on the bottle. It shot well but was really slow. 2670fps from a 14.5". Which makes sense given their 3030fps from a 24" barrel. After trying that a couple of times, I decided to push it and see where pressure is. I jumped up to 25gr and ran a ladder every .4grs. 25.4 and 26.2grs shot really well at 2815 and 2905fps. I loaded those two back up with 10rds each. Took them back out and shot 4 x 5rd groups. The 25.4 won out, shooting close to a .25" group; one round opened it up. Best group I've seen out of that particular barrel.
62gr Speer GDHP
2.250" COAL
CCI 400
25.4gr SW Tactical Rifle
2815fps @ 20° F
62gr Speer GDHP
2.250" COAL
CCI 400
25.4gr SW Tactical Rifle
2815fps @ 20° F
Youre fine. Ive run cci 400s, br2s, br4s, wsr, rem 7.5, fiocchi, sellier and bellot, federal, etc. Never have I had a problem with a primer in an ar15. What primer specifically do you have?
I've loaded just about every large rifle primer in a 308 gas gun and never had a problem. Take that for what you paid for it.
Remington 7-1/2 BR. I've only used CCI 400, and Fed 200 in AR platform
Those specifically are great for an ar15. Thick cups, powerful primer. Theyre my favorite. I used those and cci450 in 308 lapua palma brass.
Below is a link to an old post that links to an older article. Its good info. One thing I concluded after my first few years reloading was that primers are a very small part of the recipe. A bullet, powder charge, and case that works for you is gonna work with a cci400 or a fiocchi or a S&B and so forth........for the most part. I use mostly cci450 and R 7-1/2 but thats mostly been due to local availability.
www.snipershide.com
A PRIMER ON PRIMERS
While searching around for some info I stumbled on to this thread and its too good not to share. Taken from the following and posted by Frisco Pete http://www.sksboards.com/smf/index.php?topic=56422.0 CHOOSING THE RIGHT PRIMER - A PRIMER ON PRIMERS Based on an article by John Barsness - GUNS...
www.snipershide.com 
Has anyone used N133 with 70 grain RDFs for 5.56in a gas gun? I know N140 is pretty well used, but there’s none of that locally.
I went out to the range yesterday and tested some 77 SMK's over Benchmark. I started at 20.5 and went up in .3 grain increments to 22 grains. I plan on going up more, but I ran out of time when I reloaded them, and had a chance to go shoot yesterday.
Loaded to mag length, I got promising groups at 20.7 and 22. The rest opened up more.
16" barrel. No idea who made it, as I traded some stuff for the complete upper. 1 in 8 twist if I remember correctly.
Also, I don't yet own a chrono, but I really want to get one.
Loaded to mag length, I got promising groups at 20.7 and 22. The rest opened up more.
16" barrel. No idea who made it, as I traded some stuff for the complete upper. 1 in 8 twist if I remember correctly.
Also, I don't yet own a chrono, but I really want to get one.
Lapua's site said "
Due to the continued high product demand and the prevailing market conditions impacted especially by the Ukraine situation, the availability of some of our products is unfortunately limited and delivery times have become extended. To better serve our civilian and military obligations, some of our components will be temporarily suspended from production, including the .222 Rem."
It said 222 rem.
The 223 said nothing but it goes like this from all manufacturers.
The MIC has deep pockets, screw everyone else.
Israel vs the goat fuckers can only compound this problem with our reloading supply chain.
www.lapua.com
Due to the continued high product demand and the prevailing market conditions impacted especially by the Ukraine situation, the availability of some of our products is unfortunately limited and delivery times have become extended. To better serve our civilian and military obligations, some of our components will be temporarily suspended from production, including the .222 Rem."
It said 222 rem.
The 223 said nothing but it goes like this from all manufacturers.
The MIC has deep pockets, screw everyone else.
Israel vs the goat fuckers can only compound this problem with our reloading supply chain.
Reloading Cases | Lapua Brass | Ammo components
Lapua reloading brass is the best choice for demanding handloaders. We offer reloading brass cases for numerous cartridge calibers.
www.lapua.com Last edited:
Damn I missed that, thanks so much! Any suggestions on quality 223 brass?
I feel like youre wasting money shooting lapua brass from an ar15. I used to do it too. I stopped. Are you shooting any particular discipline or just trying to shoot tiny groups?
Norma is decent. Match prepping LC or any other quality brass should be sufficient for most ar15 needs.
Norma is decent. Match prepping LC or any other quality brass should be sufficient for most ar15 needs.
I shoot PRS gas gun and a few team sniper matches like Mammoth and have always had really good results with Lapua (back when you could find it for 50 bucks per 100).
I’ll try getting some once fired LC and see how that goes.
^^^^^^^^^ This right here.
People with Lapua brass normally have all the bells and whistles to match prep their ammo.
I prefer first fireds to new for all my loads. Prepping the pockets is a one time pita.
My favorite is range pickup / sweep up that is pretty clean to start with in whatever brand they sell the most of for range ammo.
I have made sub 1/2 inch loads out of Frontier and GFL (Ficochi) for example.
I doubt my equipment is as good as most on the forum.
It is all about the effort put into the brass.
My best groups, 3/8 moa in my 20 inch 250$ barrel upper have been on GFL range brass and I doubt I can shoot the difference between it and Lapua in an ar anyway.
I expect some on here can shoot the difference but my skills and pockets are not that deep.
Before I reloaded I shot up a ton of fiocchi. In particular their 50gr vmax load. It shot lights out out of my sweet 16 1:9 twist barrel. So when I was ready to reload I had tons of it and I also made some very accurate reloads out of it for 6x45 and 223. I was told to throw it away because the flash holes were generally off center. I dunno if theyre still that way but 10 years ago they definitley were. Either way it made good ammo.
Yes. It will probably like from 21-22 grains of N133. 2.260 OAL
I have read that as well .
I deprime separately before tumbling to get clean. I like to not get dirt into my good (lol) dies (mostly Lee).
Last time I culled out GFL for a run of 55g Bob's bullets I decided to track how many offset flash holes that gave me problems.
So I took the time to put the range brass in loading trays for easy counting.
Sample size counted was 300.
I was supprised to find that only 3% gave me problems in a universal depriming die.
I imagine that figure will go up if you use your sizing die to deprime. But after deprime and tumble no more problems with those culled out.
I used to rotate the case in the deprime process till I got the primer out but since I have lots of 223 range brass decided to toss those first failed.
I have broke one depriming pin by forcing it (stupid) stubborn and my grandchild broke one by laying a case sideways on the shell holder.
I belive the main problem is with progressive presses ran hard and automated systems.
Yes that will be a problem.
I had about the same amount of culls with Fiocchi/GFL brass. Also PMC with the same issue. I just cull them out and move on. I loaded some just to see if there was any difference. I couldn't notice anything but I didn't like how it could cause issues with my die for sizing/deprime. It was easier just to toss them and I no longer worry about keeping any F/GFL brass with what little new ammo I have left from those batches.
Sort out batches to use and use the predominant headstamp for your favorite load or whichever one you think is better for some reason.
There are a couple brands I don't like but others think are special to them. Trade barter or toss in the armageddon pile.
Lake city brass is popular, I'm indifferent to it and not been left in quantities at my local range for a few years.
If you want to recover your brass during practice etc a handy thing I found was a brass goat. Most of the time if not standing / moving I use it with the bottom (collection mag) off.
That way makes it easier to burn my finger tips checking primers during load development.
There are a couple brands I don't like but others think are special to them. Trade barter or toss in the armageddon pile.
Lake city brass is popular, I'm indifferent to it and not been left in quantities at my local range for a few years.
If you want to recover your brass during practice etc a handy thing I found was a brass goat. Most of the time if not standing / moving I use it with the bottom (collection mag) off.
That way makes it easier to burn my finger tips checking primers during load development.
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I did this before I just decided to buy 1k lots of once fired LC for my 77gr loads. I'd set up a dozen different coffee cans or 1gal ziplock bags and sort by headstamp until my eyes hurt. I'd then use the largest batch for my 77s and everything else for 55s.
Now I just buy once fired LC and use the unsorted range pick up brass for 55s. If I was shooting more DMR matches, and using more 77s, I'd probably mark my LC cases to ensure I picked them up and kept them separated but using less than a mag at most 2 and 3 gun matches means a thousand rounds loaded in prepped once fired LC can keep me from sorting brass for a year or more.
Okay this sounds like what I’ll end up doing. I already just use a mix of everything for my plinking 62gr loads. But I’ll sort out the LC brass for my 77gr ones. Thanks!
That is how I come to find out which plinker bullets sucked and which were good.
Decided to sort for plinkers and fully prep brass, the cheap hornady bullets were disappointing.
Got some bulk seconds 52g speer on sale, a mild 3100 fps 3/8 moa plinker.
Got a bulk box of Bob's 55g bullets, also turned into 3/8 moa round.
I think I will call them training rounds instead of plinkers. Lol
That has allowed me to practice and enjoy for a good price .
My bulk seconds 69g project ran into a snag but produced one 1/2 moa test before I shut it down.
It was mangling cases.
Had to file on my new handgaurd to access the agb.
Now maybe I can adjust it down or diagnose the problem but they seem to have promise.
Anyway may not bother building a 223 bolt gun at all.
Damn almost forgot what I wanted to say about buying once fired brass.
I like "raw" first fired.
I do not want them to size the brass.
If you could get it deprimed clean and swaged that would be Ideal.
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Some pistol powders data points for Subsonic using 55 grain bullets
I would say around 3.6-3.7 grains of VV N330 and some cotton, and that might be as good as you can do on this planet earth. Of course, you could use 80 grain bullets and try similar powder charges in ballpark to guess, and narrow it down fast.
I would say around 3.6-3.7 grains of VV N330 and some cotton, and that might be as good as you can do on this planet earth. Of course, you could use 80 grain bullets and try similar powder charges in ballpark to guess, and narrow it down fast.
I think I'm having parallax problems. Maybe. I don't know. All the same load. 25.0gr AA2520, [email protected]" oal, win sr, mixed headstamp brass.
the last target on the bottom right was just dropped from a Harrells measure without checking them. They were 25.1gr every time on the trial run before I threw the ones to load. The first three groups were trickled up exactly to 25.0.
Not sure on the order of these but I know number one was just left of the bull. This was the first five I acyltually loaded. Labradar didn't pick these up suppressed. I moved it forward a little and it got the next set.
My sloppy not taking. Only intended on the first five shots but recorded all of them.
the last target on the bottom right was just dropped from a Harrells measure without checking them. They were 25.1gr every time on the trial run before I threw the ones to load. The first three groups were trickled up exactly to 25.0.
Not sure on the order of these but I know number one was just left of the bull. This was the first five I acyltually loaded. Labradar didn't pick these up suppressed. I moved it forward a little and it got the next set.
My sloppy not taking. Only intended on the first five shots but recorded all of them.
Mixed headstamps says it all.
Sort out one batch of whatever you have plenty of.
Sort out one batch of whatever you have plenty of.
How does my velocity look ? Shooting it out of a 14.5"
I don't look at velocity till I get it grouping.
I use small sample sizes shot from a bench.
You can watch the groups string horizontal and vertical, expand and come togeather around book max or carefully above if confident in experience.
Then up sample sizes to 10 and bracket the best load in one tenth grain incraments.
Then I want velocity #'s.
I'm an old school shithead. Lol
I use small sample sizes shot from a bench.
You can watch the groups string horizontal and vertical, expand and come togeather around book max or carefully above if confident in experience.
Then up sample sizes to 10 and bracket the best load in one tenth grain incraments.
Then I want velocity #'s.
I'm an old school shithead. Lol
I was just curious whether or not I was in the neighborhood for decent velocity out of a 14.5". Never messed with 223 much. Much less 77gr bullets.
I usually shoot 55gr through my 14.5BA barrel but I did run some Frontier 75gr BTHP last time out. Only ran 3 rounds to see how they'd shoot. Average velocity wad 2695 with ES of 19 and SD of 8. Yes, it's a small sample size but point of shooting was to check velocity for heavier bullets. I've decided to try developing 68/69 bthp for a little better velocity
I think you may have it backwards if measuring at the muzzle. But depends if you are going up from 55's or down from 77's
I was getting 2850 fps to 2930 fps with 69's but had to turn down gas block 1/4 turn to keep from crushing brass.
Still pancakeing primers with 23.6 - 24.2 of tac.
24.2 went scatter on me.
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Well this load isn't ready for an hour long drive yet.
No use wasting the gas till I get it behaving better.
Still pancaking primers and getting slightly over Hodgdon's 24 inch barrels velocity
in my 20 inch barrel gasser.
Possible Frontier brass not very consistent and I might be close to jam.
Sierra 69g and tac.
This was at 50 yards because it's close to the house and a dead air lab.
I use it in initial load development, eliminates variables and unfortunately excuses. lol
Not my best shooting. An rso was testing his new Garmin radar, nice.
No use wasting the gas till I get it behaving better.
Still pancaking primers and getting slightly over Hodgdon's 24 inch barrels velocity
in my 20 inch barrel gasser.
Possible Frontier brass not very consistent and I might be close to jam.
Sierra 69g and tac.
This was at 50 yards because it's close to the house and a dead air lab.
I use it in initial load development, eliminates variables and unfortunately excuses. lol
Not my best shooting. An rso was testing his new Garmin radar, nice.
