Range Report  6GT Project/Range Report

sleeplz

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  • May 12, 2017
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    What are people running 108 eld’s at velocity wise with H4350?

    I loaded 37.3, 37.5, 37.7, 37.9, 38.1 and shot them today. A few groups were great but had fliers (possibly me) the numbers were also not that great. Lowest SD I was able to achieve was 5.7

    velocity was 2940 at 37.3 up to 3040 at 38.1.

    29” barrel and Alpha brass.
    Are you using a expander mandrel?
     

    sleeplz

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    6-8 sd was what I was able to accomplish as well. Apparently an expander mandrel from K&M or Sinclair should lower things down. I'm gonna try that on my next batch after I come back from a trip.
     

    DDRH65CM

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    What are people running 108 eld’s at velocity wise with H4350?

    I loaded 37.3, 37.5, 37.7, 37.9, 38.1 and shot them today. A few groups were great but had fliers (possibly me) the numbers were also not that great. Lowest SD I was able to achieve was 5.7

    velocity was 2940 at 37.3 up to 3040 at 38.1.

    29” barrel and Alpha brass.

    I'm getting the same velocity, similar nodes, except out of a 26" bbl. Bbl only has ~250rnds through it.

    37.75gr H4350, velocity avg 3040fps 108 ELD-M
     

    Mr Flannel

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    Gents - can someone please let me know the recommended trim length for 6GT, or length of new Hornady or Alpha brass? I'm having to make my first cases from 6.5x47 and I've never seen a 6GT in the wild down here. I might have missed it somewhere. If so, apologies.
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Gents - can someone please let me know the recommended trim length for 6GT, or length of new Hornady or Alpha brass? I'm having to make my first cases from 6.5x47 and I've never seen a 6GT in the wild down here. I might have missed it somewhere. If so, apologies.

    Here’s the print. I’ll try to remember to measure my hornady/alpha brass today. The lapua I’m experimenting with I have just been running it to same length as I do hornady (I go about .001-.002 under what factory hornady comes so they are all uniform length).

    1587725145162.jpeg
     
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    I SHOOT

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    Gents - can someone please let me know the recommended trim length for 6GT, or length of new Hornady or Alpha brass? I'm having to make my first cases from 6.5x47 and I've never seen a 6GT in the wild down here. I might have missed it somewhere. If so, apologies.
    IMG_20200424_080711.jpg

    Virgin Hornady
    I believe the spec is 1.720
     
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    Mr Flannel

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    Thanks gents. Greatly appreciated. I’d looked at the reamer print but didn’t know what a safe margin might be.

    @Dthomas3523 - on the steps you’re following to form 6.5x47 to 6GT, do you do a trim to length after the initial sizing down run?

    I’m lucky enough to have a Henderson trimmer but I can see it taking quite a bit of time...
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Thanks gents. Greatly appreciated. I’d looked at the reamer print but didn’t know what a safe margin might be.

    @Dthomas3523 - on the steps you’re following to form 6.5x47 to 6GT, do you do a trim to length after the initial sizing down run?

    I’m lucky enough to have a Henderson trimmer but I can see it taking quite a bit of time...

    Currently my steps:

    Run into a 6x47 non bushing die (I run 6x47 as well so I have one) to take the neck down.

    Then I run in 6gt die without bushing, halfway down, spin case and finish sizing.

    Then trim to length and inside ream. Outside neck turn if its still too thick for the chamber.

    Size with appropriate bushing and mandrel

    Fireform/practice with 31.0 varget.

    Neck turn to desired thickness if need be after.


    I’m still experimenting with this process and it will likely change.
     
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    spife7980

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    Thanks gents. Greatly appreciated. I’d looked at the reamer print but didn’t know what a safe margin might be.
    For saami specs generally the max case length will be .010 from the end of the neck before it transitions down.

    So 1.732 minus .010 gives us 1.722 max. Then the spec will say something along the lines of -.020 meaning that up to .020 below that number is still in spec. So the trim length spec would be 1.722-.020 meaning anywhere from 1.702-1.722 is in the range.

    1587739263749.png
     
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    Mr Flannel

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    For saami specs generally the max case length will be .010 from the end of the neck before it transitions down.

    So 1.732 minus .010 gives us 1.722 max. Then the spec will say something along the lines of -.020 meaning that up to .020 below that number is still in spec. So the trim length spec would be 1.722-.020 meaning anywhere from 1.702-1.722 is in the range.

    View attachment 7307247

    Thanks - appreciate it. I’d thought to subtract about 0.015“ to 0.020” from the 1.732” figure so good to see I wasn’t completely off base.
     

    Mr Flannel

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    Currently my steps:

    Run into a 6x47 non bushing die (I run 6x47 as well so I have one) to take the neck down.

    Then I run in 6gt die without bushing, halfway down, spin case and finish sizing.

    Then trim to length and inside ream. Outside neck turn if its still too thick for the chamber.

    Size with appropriate bushing and mandrel

    Fireform/practice with 31.0 varget.

    Neck turn to desired thickness if need be after.


    I’m still experimenting with this process and it will likely change.

    Ok - this looks pretty different from where you started, process-wise? Did you go for inside reaming to cut out process steps of mandrel expand and outside turn, or were you finding latter wasn‘t getting rid of donut at base of neck?
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Ok - this looks pretty different from where you started, process-wise? Did you go for inside reaming to cut out process steps of mandrel expand and outside turn, or were you finding latter wasn‘t getting rid of donut at base of neck?

    The donut was really bad. So bad with my 21st century lathe, even after running the expander mandrel it would still bind on the turning mandrel.

    Had a hand reamer for inside and then my IDOD showed up. So my process is gonna get a bit more efficient and I’m sure change again at some point.
     
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    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Update on making lapua 6gt. Now that I have pretty much everything I need, I just spent a few hours perfecting the process. I think I have it down. It sounds like a lot, but with the right stuff, it’s not bad.

    Run virgin 6.5x47 into SAC 6gt die without bushing. Twist 1-2 times in process in attempt to maintain some sort of concentricity.

    21st turning expander mandrel (.240)

    Inside ream with IDOD (just enough for the 21st turning mandrel to pass properly). Finding IDOD doesn’t do well with brass that isn’t concentric. Neck thickness was all over the place

    Outside turn with 21st lathe (the strength of a mandrel and floating Chuck is when brass isn’t concentric)

    Neck comes out at .012 and hugs a .241 pin gauge perfectly without any feeling of a donut.

    From here is just trim/chamfer/deburr and load. I’ll probably add the trim/cham/deb after the IDOD reaming.

    .012 neck wall works out to a .267 loaded neck diameter which is just about perfect at .006 neck clearance. .006 is what I shoot for on most everything.
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Neck still needs to be trimmed down. Just seated a 109 hybrid to double check loaded diameter.

    3F628506-90CC-4000-8282-CFD0C18BE6FB.jpeg
     
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    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    just curious why you need to turn it more when your running a .273 reamer? or did i miss something when i didnt read word for word?

    I run .006 clearance on most everything. .003 is fairly tight.

    Not sure where/when “no neck turn” reamers with .003 or less clearance became standard.
     
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    PowPowHawg

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    I’ll leave this right here if anybody is interested ... My first moderate sized 6mm gamer setup and I‘m not going to Change a thing! This is shots 381-400. 28”, 7T, Proof comp cont., Hor. Brass, 205M... Should be to 800 rounds soon and ill keep eveybody updated. Having way too much fun out to 1400yds at pretty much sea level....
     

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    Mr Flannel

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    Update on making lapua 6gt. Now that I have pretty much everything I need, I just spent a few hours perfecting the process. I think I have it down. It sounds like a lot, but with the right stuff, it’s not bad.

    Run virgin 6.5x47 into SAC 6gt die without bushing. Twist 1-2 times in process in attempt to maintain some sort of concentricity.

    21st turning expander mandrel (.240)

    Inside ream with IDOD (just enough for the 21st turning mandrel to pass properly). Finding IDOD doesn’t do well with brass that isn’t concentric. Neck thickness was all over the place

    Outside turn with 21st lathe (the strength of a mandrel and floating Chuck is when brass isn’t concentric)

    Neck comes out at .012 and hugs a .241 pin gauge perfectly without any feeling of a donut.

    From here is just trim/chamfer/deburr and load. I’ll probably add the trim/cham/deb after the IDOD reaming.

    .012 neck wall works out to a .267 loaded neck diameter which is just about perfect at .006 neck clearance. .006 is what I shoot for on most everything.

    How is the inside neck reaming operation done on the IDOD? I don't have the IDOD option down here (or justifiable need) but have just noticed the same donut issue on the prototype case I've made. Despite use of expander mandrel, case will not slip over 21c neck turning mandrel. Donut is visible under high mag loupe and also with gauge. I'm going to need to use a 6mm Wilson inside neck reamer as that's about the only option I have..
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    How is the inside neck reaming operation done on the IDOD? I don't have the IDOD option down here (or justifiable need) but have just noticed the same donut issue on the prototype case I've made. Despite use of expander mandrel, case will not slip over 21c neck turning mandrel. Donut is visible under high mag loupe and also with gauge. I'm going to need to use a 6mm Wilson inside neck reamer as that's about the only option I have..

    It’s just a cutter that’s inserted into the spinning cartridge.

    The Wilson reamer may take too much out. If that was the only option, I’d probably try a larger mandrel first. Then get the neck turned and fired. Use the inside reamers on a fired case before sizing down.
     
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    Walker TR

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    Ran my 6GT today here are the stats.......this looks to be what I will run being that I won't run the hot node. Really digging this cartage.

    6GT Stuteville Precision 26 inch barrel Impact Action Gen III Fat Bastard 5 port break
    34.6-34.8 Varget was the sweet spot single hole 5 round groups on a lower node, loaded on twin Charge Masters
    109 Berger Hybrid 50 thou off
    Alpha Brass .267 neck tension, 2nd firing
    BR4 Primer
    2940 FPS 34.6 Varget SD 4.1 ES 9
    2950 FPS 34.8 Varget SD 3.2 ES 7
     

    1moaoff

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  • Nov 16, 2008
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    Ah ha! Good one.

    There's that 6mm comp match that is supposed to get good barrel life for a 6mm with H-1000???

    Don't know about the barrel life on this one but the guy claims 4650 fps for 20/35SMc which is a 6mmBR necked down and with a special shoulder that's supposed to make the case be super efficient. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5_mm/35_SMc
    I run a a 6 comp match with h1000
    The whole basis for the longer barrel life is a few things.
    Powder, cooler and slow...

    Velocity, I have a fast load and normal load. On a barrel run at 2990 or so I am north of 2k rounds. I had a barrel i ran 3160 ish and at 1800 it was 100% done.

    Speed kills!

    There are articles from the inventor the talk about the throat care and the gains with that also.

    I'm not making any crazy or elaborate claims so calm down. I will say I get better life from my comp match than my 6 creed. If kept to moderate velocity 2500 is attainable. I said attainable not 100% consistent.

    Chad at LRI has a good article on it.

    Bottom line throats were and barrels get fire cracking. It's a matter of balance. I like the comp match because every few barrels it's like a free barrel for me if I run it moderate.
     
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    1moaoff

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  • Nov 16, 2008
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    Remember SOME of the long barrel life numbers with 6br are at 2850 velocity. If we ran that slow barrwl life would probably increase also.

    And most Bench rest shooters I used to know never ran barrels as hot as we do.

    Theres no free lunch trying to run 2900 fps or faster.
     

    Yoteski

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    Running the 115 rdf at a slow node with H4350 (36.2 grains). Found another node at 37.7-38 grains, but loads are getting compressed. It consistently shoots a 5 SD testing it on multiple days/temperatures. Going to run this and see how it goes because it's crazy consistent and the bc is trueing up much higher than advertised. Groups are consistently in the .4 range. Hoping to extend barrel life and have consistency over the life of the barrel.
    Using Hornady brass and a 24" proof CF barrel with TBAC Ultra 7.
    20200424_183721.jpg
    20200331_173753.jpg
     

    Walker TR

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    Saw a post on FB stating today that 6GT is finicking with a narrow accuracy node/nodes......I am find that not to be the case with my 6GT just seeing what others have experienced. There was a giant dog pile with a few people saying that is worse than a Dasher by alot......heavy trolling
     

    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    Saw a post on FB stating today that 6GT is finicking with a narrow accuracy node/nodes......I am find that not to be the case with my 6GT just seeing what others have experienced. There was a giant dog pile with a few people saying that is worse than a Dasher by alot......heavy trolling

    Where was this?

    Except for some issues I had with alpha brass, I found it to be easy to load for.

    Though I’m finding most who have issues with load development are still doing things circa 1980.
     

    Dthomas3523

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    So, gauging interest. Hypothetically speaking, wound anyone be interested or think people would be interested in a 6gt Lapua package deal that consisted of:

    Barrel chambered with .270 neck

    Your chosen amount of 6gt lapua brass (fireformed and turned, hence they tighter neck)

    Proper bushing, mandrel, and load/node data that should be very close considering same barrel/chamber specs

    Also available hornady or alpha brass turned for tighter chamber. Or lapua, hornady, or alpha skim turned for the .273 standard chamber (takes longer in lathe I use for skim turning, so probably a slightly higher price).

    Most people either don’t bother with turning because they don’t want to do it, or they incorrectly think turning is only done to fit chambers. So just spitballing ideas in which to offer turned brass without the hassle in several different options.
     

    Redeye3

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    Where was this?

    Except for some issues I had with alpha brass, I found it to be easy to load for.

    Though I’m finding most who have issues with load development are still doing things circa 1980.

    Josh at PVA posted that on FB, some guy asked how the GT was. So far I've had no issues with accuracy 300rds and probably have 4-5 groups that where over 1/2 out to 400. Multiple charges seating depths etc..
     
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    V-Ref

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    For the lurkers or readers.... regarding the "problems" folks are having regarding pressure with Alpha GT...it's likely a FL sizing die base dimension issue.

    Measure at the ".200" line, if you put a case on your bench, .200 up from the case head, measure the diameter of a virgin, fired "clicky/sticky" case, fired no "clicky/sticky" case, and FL sized case where your bumping the shoulder .003-.004.

    A pair of calipers will have hard time picking up the measurements if your FL sizing die is on the edge, best to use a dial micrometer that can measure to the .0001.

    You should ideally see .0015-.0020 reduction in base diameter of a fired case after sizing. If you don't, you're gonna get "clickers" or see premature signs of pressure.

    Just like lot variations in bullets, primers, barrels, reamers etc, dies are no different. You need to qualify your tooling, and your use of it.

    I still prefer Lapua, but the Alpha 6 GT I've used is excellent quality brass.

    If you've got a big FL sizing die, and a min spec chamber, you look uninformed blaming your lack of knowledge or experience on "brass problems".
     

    Kadams1563

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    I set my die up to where fired brass would free fall the bolt with no firing pin assembly or ejector and it ended up needing .004 of bump. That’s about double that I ever sized a fired case.

    I anneal with an AMP every firing so I hope my brass doesn’t split from working that much. I usually only bump shoulders about .0015.
     
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    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    It shouldn’t. I usually bump .002-.003 without issue. Guys bump almost double that for gas gun.
     

    V-Ref

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    I set my die up to where fired brass would free fall the bolt with no firing pin assembly or ejector and it ended up needing .004 of bump. That’s about double that I ever sized a fired case.

    I anneal with an AMP every firing so I hope my brass doesn’t split from working that much. I usually only bump shoulders about .0015.
    You're setting it up perfectly. The reason your measurements show .003-.004 is because there's never a perfect match between the shoulder angle in your chamber and your FL sizer and the datum on your comparator.

    More references towards a # being a "gas gun" number only go to show the level of misinformation that's available for consumption.
     
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    Dthomas3523

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  • Jan 31, 2018
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    You're setting it up perfectly. The reason your measurements show .003-.004 is because there's never a perfect match between the shoulder angle in your chamber and your FL sizer and the datum on your comparator.

    More references towards a # being a "gas gun" number only go to show the level of misinformation that's available for consumption.

    No one referenced it as being a gas gun number. Nor was it suggested he did not size the brass properly.

    It was a comparison to how more shoulder bump will not work the brass enough to damage it. As there are people bumping more without issue.

    Read carefully before you post again.
     
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    V-Ref

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    No one referenced it as being a gas gun number. Nor was it suggested he did not size the brass properly.

    It was a comparison to how more shoulder bump will not work the brass enough to damage it. As there are people bumping more without issue.

    Read carefully before you post again.

    I try to limit my posts to topics I’m knowledgeable about, so as to not mislead others.

    Did you ever get your “brass issues” worked out.
     

    Dthomas3523

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    I try to limit my posts to topics I’m knowledgeable about, so as to not mislead others.

    Did you ever get your “brass issues” worked out.

    Soft case head in some batches is the general consensus among several who have looked at it. Without hardness tests no way to verify.

    Dies are sizing properly. Hornady factory brass and formed lapua works fine.
     

    kthomas

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    Saw a post on FB stating today that 6GT is finicking with a narrow accuracy node/nodes......I am find that not to be the case with my 6GT just seeing what others have experienced. There was a giant dog pile with a few people saying that is worse than a Dasher by alot......heavy trolling

    I would take information you get from FB with a grain of salt. Lots of rhetoric and group think on FB, I can't stand the precision rifle groups on there.
     
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    tob5

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    info regarding life on 6GT
    1645 rounds on barrel #1
    Shot mostly 105 and just recently got the 109s.
    Running H4350 with spartan rifles cut bartlien barrel 27 inch heavy palma 5R with 37 grains
    H4350

    Some velocitys running @ 3018 for 105 and 3005 for 109 . .020 off lands for the 105 and .030 for 109.
    So far been running the hornady brass with 105 and alpha with the 109's ( new addition)

    Single digit sds in most of the loads ,never above 5-6 even with virgin brass , after prep sized anealed and autotrickler loaded , typically in the low 2-3 sds

    Measured new @ throat at 1.960 to lands .
    And currently @ 1645 at 1.999 to lands
    Same bullet for measurements from 0 to 1645
    Keeping the .020 thou jump with rounds with 105 hybrid . And added recently the 109 to the mix so unknown on throat [email protected] this time.
    Will update when have more data on the 109s
     

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    verdugo60

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    Finally got my 6GT out! Barrel is a Krieger pre-fit chambered by Keystone Accuracy for my Bighorn Origin.

    Despite 20+ mph winds and having to single feed(forgot mag) it shot in the .2’s and .3’s with my generic break- in loads at 100 yards.

    Load is: 35.5 grains H4350 with a Hybrid 109 in Hornady brass, CCI 450. COAL of 2.59”. Can’t wait to keep shooting it and see where my accuracy/velocity nodes end up.
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    Kadams1563

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    Anyone know what caliber conversion works on a Dillon 650 and the GT? Want to start sizing and running mandrel die on the dillion to speed things up.

    Ill throw powder and seat bullets on the Co-ax.
     

    Redeye3

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    Finally got my 6GT out! Barrel is a Krieger pre-fit chambered by Keystone Accuracy for my Bighorn Origin.

    Despite 20+ mph winds and having to single feed(forgot mag) it shot in the .2’s and .3’s with my generic break- in loads at 100 yards.

    Load is: 35.5 grains H4350 with a Hybrid 109 in Hornady brass, CCI 450. COAL of 2.59”. Can’t wait to keep shooting it and see where my accuracy/velocity nodes end up.
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    I got two of his barrels, I settled on 37.9 h4350 60off
    2985. Lights out ex under 10. You'll be very happy with that barrel
     
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