6mm Crusader

A10XRIFLE

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For those that really want to push the 115 Dtacs in a STD boltface, short action repeater.


115 in 243 win , compared to 115 in 6mm crusader


355889323.jpg



Base of bearing surface at the neck shoulder juntion. "no Doughnut's"



355889329.jpg



Fits nicley in an AICS (with plate removed) or Std AIAW mag



355889334.jpg




Bulets are seated to be .005" in the lands at this length.



3200-3300 FPS is the goal

has 8.5 grains more capacity than the 243 Win

32 deg shoulder.


HMMMMMMMM????






 

A10XRIFLE

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Re: 6mm Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: heatseekins</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Hmmmm.....

I just tore down my rifle to re-chamber it. Where do i get brass/reamer and dies? </div></div>

Call me Glen, I need somone like you to play with it anyway.

Dies are coming

I have Brass
 

A10XRIFLE

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Re: 6mm Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Bacarrat</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How comparable is this to a 6x284? Barrel life expected? </div></div>

6x284 wont feed out of AW Mags

Performance will be virtullly the same.

Barrel Life is not known but I estimate 2000-2500 for Tactical Match Shooting

1000-1500 for F Class and 1000 yard Bench stuff.
 

SFree

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Re: 6mm Crusader

Modified 6mm case? Have some buds who do Ackley 6mm's and thepush lighter bullets to over 4000fps easily. Matt just rebarreled and got 4300 rounds out of his then it went ALL at once. Pretty impressive those 6mm's!!
 

wfpack14

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Re: 6mm Crusader

George if you want to send me one to try out for you I would be more then happy....grin. Looking forward to some solid numbers.
 

JasonB

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Re: 6mm Crusader

since the round is so close to max mag length with the plate removed, how much is accuracy going to be affected as the barrel wears down and you are getting more and more bullet jump.

Sorry i dont know anything about 115 DTACs
 

A10XRIFLE

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Re: 6mm Crusader

Same as with the 243, you will have to add a little more powder to obtain the same velocity.

touching the lands is not real important when the chamber is cut dead nutz to the bore. I personally run most of my personal rifles 10 to 20 off. I have shot my 243 rifles to 3000 rounds and never changed the OAL they seem to hold their accuracy great. It will be the same here.
 

7mmRM

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Re: 6mm Crusader

From the pics it looks to have been "improved", much less body taper over the parent case and a sharper shoulder. Looks interesting for sure!
 

gregsjt

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Re: 6mm Crusader

Looks like it doesn't have the 40 degree shoulder of the 6mm AI, did you do that to improve feeding?
 

Glen Seekins

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Re: 6mm Crusader

I just ordered 1500 115's for "testing" purposes. We are going to chamber up 3 comp rifles and see what happens..With what we have been shooting, I honestly think 3300 will be easy to get.

5.7 mil to 1k wont suck...but if i can get to 3500fps that's only 5 mills..All the left over mills in my scope are going to be jealous...
 

9H_Cracka

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Re: 6mm Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: gregsjt</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Looks like it doesn't have the 40 degree shoulder of the 6mm AI, did you do that to improve feeding? </div></div>

AI made many chamberings in both 30 and 40 degree. 40 degree is not synonymous with the AI. This one appears to be a 30 degree shoulder.

Being able to fire the parent round in the modified chamber is. Without seeing this side-by-side with the parent brass you cannot tell if it is an AI or not.

Wow - an overbore short action cartridge. That's an original idea. Both the parent and the 243 are overbores - this one just more so. It goes to 11.

Now if you can get the 115s to stay together once you get some throat wear - I anticipate that to be the challenge at those velocities. I know a guy that can't keep them together in a 243 once the barrel gets about 1800 rounds down it and the barrel gets warm from string fire. But I'm sure the smart guys are way ahead of me on this one. What's the trick?
 

A10XRIFLE

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Re: 6mm Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: palma</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How is this different/better than a 6mm Rem? </div></div>

body blown to .455 at nk sh juntion, shoulder angle, 5.5 grains more powder.
 

A10XRIFLE

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Re: 6mm Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
gregsjt said:
Now if you can get the 115s to stay together once you get some throat wear - I anticipate that to be the challenge at those velocities. I know a guy that can't keep them together in a 243 once the barrel gets about 1800 rounds down it and the barrel gets warm from string fire. But I'm sure the smart guys are way ahead of me on this one. What's the trick? </div></div>

Use a better barrel

Ours goo 3000+ in 243 without blowing bullets. There are many on here that can testify to that.


Overbore????? depends on what your intention is. If you want a cartridge that will hang with the 338 Lapua to a mile with no recoil this is your girl. like it or not
 

psinclair

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Re: 6mm Crusader

are we going to stuck with remington brass, or do you something else in mind?.......please say laupa....
 

ALMAORFE

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Re: 6mm Crusader

Do you have a trajectory table you can post? I'm at work and can't do that right now. Would like to see it next to a .243.
 

Blaster4

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Re: 6mm Crusader

Awesome!!! I was really trying to get by without a long action in the golf bag. Looks like that is an option now. I use 115 in a tweaked .243 case to compare and beat some 300 WM loads for elevation...exciting to see that the mighty .338 LM is not alone.

Less powder...cheaper brass...cheaper brass...less recoil...compatable with AI mags and actions I already own...

All I have to do is buy another barrel and some dies. Seems like a very economic and logistically efficient answer.

Look forward to the results.

--KJ
 

260shtr

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Re: 6mm Crusader

I shot a 6MM AI for a few years. 107's (molyed) @ 3200fps would shoot inside of 300 Win Mags at 1K. N-165 was a very good performer with this set up. Round shot exellent to 1700 rounds (many match strings) and at 500 at a match it started throwing shots. Had it scoped, looked like dry lake bed with a large flake missing. That's when it became a 260. In the 1700 rounds I never changed the seating depth and it shot great until the dreaded piece of barrel going down the barrel incident.

My experience with a similar round.
 

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Re: 6mm Crusader

Almaorfe already asked for a trajectory table which will kind of answer a doofus question I wanted to ask. But maybe someone could just help me out a little bit (this is reference to a couple of comments above which got me to thinkin), could somebody post the drop of 243, 338 LM, and this 6mm at 800 yards and at 1000 yards? I would much appreciate it, and to be honest I don't have the stuff to do it right. Many thanks.
 

A10XRIFLE

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Re: 6mm Crusader

1000 ft elevation, 10 MPH FULL VALUE

338 Lapua 300 SMK at 2700 1000 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">7.9m Ele</span>, 4.9m Wind, 1600 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">17.2m Ele</span>, 9.1m Wind

7mm WSM 180 Berger at 2900 1000 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">7.1m Ele</span>, 5.0m Wind, 1600 Yds <span style="font-weight: bold">15.8m Ele</span>, 9.5m Wind



6mm Crusader 115dt at 3300 1000 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">5.6m Ele</span>, 5.0m Wind, 1600 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">13.1m Ele</span>, 9.6m Wind


Without recoil
 

ALMAORFE

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Re: 6mm Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1000 ft elevation, 10 MPH FULL VALUE

338 Lapua 300 SMK at 2700 1000 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">7.9m Ele</span>, 4.9m Wind, 1600 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">17.2m Ele</span>, 9.1m Wind

7mm WSM 180 Berger at 2900 1000 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">7.1m Ele</span>, 5.0m Wind, 1600 Yds <span style="font-weight: bold">15.8m Ele</span>, 9.5m Wind



6mm Crusader 115dt at 3300 1000 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">5.6m Ele</span>, 5.0m Wind, 1600 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">13.1m Ele</span>, 9.6m Wind


Without recoil </div></div>

Thats impressive! When will barrels be available?
 

Tyler Kemp

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Re: 6mm Crusader

3300 will be a somewhat hot load I think.

In my 6mm AI which should have just a touch more capacity I'm shooting 95 grain bullets at 3400 fps. At 3500 it was too hot. For good brass life I think 3200 fps is a better estimate.

I'm curious, why not the 6mm AI instead? Or why not shorten the neck and sharpen the shoulder?
 

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Re: 6mm Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: KJDrake</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Can it fit in a AICS magazine? I think that is the trick.

I actually didn't realize the 7mmWSM had such great ballistics. </div></div>

yes from above "Fits nicley in an AICS (with plate removed) or Std AIAW mag" George
 

DMann

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Re: 6mm Crusader

There is a school of thought that says longer necks allow for more in-case combustion therefore you don't get as much of an acetylene torch effect from the combusting powder and gases being concentrated into the small diameter neck then frying the throat - the longer neck supposedly keeps those gases focused in the bore.

Sharper shoulders and straighter cases don't always like to feed well from a magazine.

Of course this is all my personal speculation and based on no actual knowledge, but delivered with the calm assurance that comes from being a faceless entity on the Internet.

The Truth may vary significantly.
 

B.Bates

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Re: 6mm Crusader

i pm'd george about this when he first mentioned it, it might clear up some questions on brass, fireforming and availablity

i was curious as to the barrel lenght you are using? 27"

barrel life greater than 1500? 2000+ is the Target

is this attained with readily availble powders? Yes RL-25

brass availablity, am i going to have a hard time finding it?
Thats not the Goal. Should be easy


is fireforming necessary? No not If it comes together as planned,

I will post some real data on it soon. Its still early in creation. hope to have 3-4 rifles being tested latter this year and if it all goes as planed Brass and load data by Shot show 2010.
 

psinclair

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Re: 6mm Crusader

a sharp shoulder, long neck and less case body taper will keep your throat alive longer. ive shot .220 swifts for almost 40 years. 12 years ago i converted over to the ackley version. my barrels last about 30% longer than with the standard design. granted barrels are of a higher quality now than say 15 or 20 years ago. i would bet the crusader would be on par with a standard .243 barrel life wise based on case design. only my guess.

sure looks like a dandy set up!

good luck with this project george!
 

kgreylgrey

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Re: 6mm Crusader

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: A10XRIFLE</div><div class="ubbcode-body">1000 ft elevation, 10 MPH FULL VALUE

338 Lapua 300 SMK at 2700 1000 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">7.9m Ele</span>, 4.9m Wind, 1600 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">17.2m Ele</span>, 9.1m Wind

7mm WSM 180 Berger at 2900 1000 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">7.1m Ele</span>, 5.0m Wind, 1600 Yds <span style="font-weight: bold">15.8m Ele</span>, 9.5m Wind



6mm Crusader 115dt at 3300 1000 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">5.6m Ele</span>, 5.0m Wind, 1600 yds <span style="font-weight: bold">13.1m Ele</span>, 9.6m Wind


Without recoil </div></div>

George, I just can't figure out how you are getting 4.9 mils windage with a 2700 fps .338lm @ 1000 yds and 10 mph wind. Unless, maybe, your target is moving at 10 mph also? Is that what 10 MPH FULL VALUE means? Excuse my ignorance, I'm just trying to understand.

 

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Re: 6mm Crusader

Interesting, especially the long neck. This should be about tops in performance (if not over the top) with the bullets now readily available.
I have tried to push the 115 dtacs past 3300 and results were not pretty. They hold together much better than the 115 bergers but a 7.5 twist kreiger or pac-nor will dust d-tacs fairly easily in a 6x284 even in a fresh barrel if your willing to push them.
I was using long barrels in 6x284 with lapua cases and slow powders with compressed loads, maybe that contributed to the bullet failures I had, but am pretty sure velocity was the culprit.
I later set one of those barrels back 4 inches (after less than 500 rounds) and rechambered it in 243AI. It is one of my favorites right now. Bergers or d-tacs at 3200 very accurate and have never lost a single bullet with about 800 rounds down range in its current configuration.
The long throat may be a big help, but who really knows. I am interested in the results as I am a huge 6mm fan. I have been getting better results with vv560 in the 243AI over RL22 but the charges are pretty compressed. With just a tad more capacity and that long neck this could be sweet with some really good brass.