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Accurizing Mosin-Nagant

Tango down

Tango down

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Minuteman
Dec 2, 2011
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Las Vegas, NV
Hi guys
For Mosin-Nagant.
Did anyone try the old method of oiled felt (with gun oil) around the barrel (5 to 7 cm long, under the band closest to the end of the barrel) and oiled cardboard under tang, action and chamber?
This is the description, I do not know where this info came from but I had someone speaking Russian translating it.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o129/05cosmo/jurjevbedding.jpg

I just finished installing this on a 37 Izhevsk but won't have time to shoot it today. I first did an accuracy test, yesterday, with the rifle without mods and will take it soon to the range, to see what it does now.
Anyone with info on this?
Also, did anyone used the Finnish Mosin Nagant sear spring/bolt stop from C&R, and if yes, did you get a noticeable softer trigger?
Thanks and good shooting.
Ombre noire
 
I have done this with canvas (among many other things) and have a Mosin that shoots around 1.2 MOA out to 400 w/ the better Russian surplus.
 
I applied 1" wide strips of 2mm thick neoprene "Foamies" brand craft foam around the barrel beneath the two barrel bands. The rifle shot a lot better. I have 3 more M-N 91/30's that I am upgrading to employ Scout scopes, and have done the same foam strip mod to them.

FWIW, I also disassembled the 149gr Russian steelcase spamcan ammo and remetered the original powder to 49.1gr each (the published charge from 7.62x54R.org), this tightened the groups further and cut way down on flyers.

I view the spamcan ammo as low cost reloading components, it justifies the purchase of a set of RCBS 7.62x54R dies and an RCBS Collet bullet puller die set very nicely. Yes, it's dirty and it's corrosive, but with this minor rework, the ammo outshoots the basic surplus load to my satisfaction. I clean as normal, follow up with several patches soaked in Windex, then dry and oil the bore. Works.

I have also loaded the same components with a 49.0gr charge of IMR-4064, with quite satisfactory results. Note, because of the surplus case/priming, it's still corrosive.

For hunting I use Win/PPU Brass, CCI-200 primers, 49.ogr IMR4064, and HDY 150gr ".303 cal." Interlocks. Goes where aimed, does the deer with no drama.

Greg
 
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I actually designed an accurizing kit for doing this. The kit includes accurizing instructions which include some soviet manual pictures, laser cut 26 gauge galvanized receiver/trigger guard shims, and a olive drab strip of light canvas for barrel wrap. I tried to keep the kit as historically accurate as possible. Email me at [email protected] if interested.
 
Hi guys
I made it to the range yesterday and the results were not too impressive. I shot 2 different kind of ammo, Russian surplus 147gr (or 149gr, I am actually not sure but it is close anyway) and PRVI (PPU) Match 182gr. Best I could do was a bit over 3.5 MOA at 100 yards, worst was 4.5.
The rifle was shooting much higher than usual and slightly right (Temp 70F, no wind), usually this particular rifle shoots a bit high and left.
I could still do head shots at 210 yards, on a 15x25 steel silhouette, leaving iron sights at 100 meters and aiming for the right testicle.
I was planning on bringing the Sellier & Bellot 174gr, as they are always more accurate than the others but I must have been day dreaming and I left them in the garage.
I will change a couple of things for next time shooting it. I feel that the felt around the barrel was a bit too thick; I will still try the wrapping but with thin canvas. I will remove the thin cardboard that I put under the tang, as this may (?) help leveling out the rifle, so it would not shoot so high. I know that most MN shoot a bit high but this was way over the chart. Also, as a thin piece of metal was already under the tang, I may have been wrong adding on the cardboard.
I will make these changes and will go back to the range, this time with the S&B 174gr, as well as the 2 other kind of ammo.
On another note.
I also have a MN Sniper version, Tula 43 PU, and I used brass under the end of the barrel, under chamber, action and tang; I believe Finns were using brass, shimming some of their rifles, it did some improving. For this rifle, I ordered a Finn sear spring (you can still find them in their original condition), in order to smooth out the trigger pull, I should receive it within few days.
As of now, the Sniper Tula is at an average of 2 MOA at 100 yards/meters, that's counting worst and best groups but the PU was not designed to shoot very small groups. I took it to 500 meters and hit a 15x25 inches silhouette (3 times out of 4 shots, pulled one of them) with Russian surplus ammo. I had my PU set at 350 metres but was shooting from a slightly elevated FFP; I also noticed that windage hold over is a must, as it is easy to go too much on the windage turret (no clicks).
Once I will install the new sear spring, I will take it to a different range, going up to 960 yards and will see what happen, shooting at the same 15x25 silhouette. I watched shooters on "You Tube" shooting the MN Sniper at 1000 yards, so there is hope. That silhouette will look awfully small though the 3.5 PU.

Now for some answers.

aurOra145
That's a cool article, I heard about cork before, I may give it a shot, if other ways fell; or just for being able to say that I tried it.
Thanks.

Tempest 455
That's an accurate MN that you have and you are a good shot, congratulations.
When you say "among many other things", what are the "other things"? Did you keep you MN mostly stock, or you "sporsterized" it?
Thanks

Gregg
I will look for this.
"I applied 1" wide strips of 2mm thick neoprene "Foamies" brand craft foam around the barrel beneath the two barrel bands".
I guess it does not melt when/if your barrel gets hot. Not that I will be in any situation where consistent fire is required; I am in Nevada, far from the Sand box, or any jungle, so I always make sure that the barrel does not get too hot.
I like the way you "transform", for the better, the spamcan ammo.
I a going to reload, today and for the first time, the 7.62x54r. I already reload for my .308's but never for the MN.
I will use Varget powder, Federal large rifle regular primers, cases are PRVI and Sellier&Bellot, bullets will be Hornady 303, 174gr (.312 diameter) and SMK 303, 174gr (.311 diameter). I have the RCBS Die set with the .311 expender.
For the powder loads. I will check my different manuals and will start somewhere in the middle.
Thanks

ScharfshutzeK98
Looks like you did your homework already on this subject; I am curious to know if one of the pics from the Soviet Manual would be this one?
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o...jevbedding.jpg
I may shoot you an email. I am also trying to stick within the possibilities and means of WWII Shooters, even though that I may purchase another MN and try a Timney trigger, pillars and few other things, just because I am curious to see what kind of improvements it would make, as far as accuracy is concerned. Of course I would like to find one with the bore in a decent condition, so it would make more sens.
Thanks

It was great to read all of your comments and ideas; I will keep on seeking the best accuracy out of my rifles, like many of us do.
I will post whatever results I get, good and bad, screw ups and success. Eventually I will figure out how to post pics, so it will make it a bit more interesting.
Now it is reload time, so Over and Out.
Thanks to all of you.
Good shooting.
Ombre noire
 
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Greg Langelius * said:
I applied 1" wide strips of 2mm thick neoprene "Foamies" brand craft foam around the barrel beneath the two barrel bands. The rifle shot a lot better. I have 3 more M-N 91/30's that I am upgrading to employ Scout scopes, and have done the same foam strip mod to them.
Click to expand...

That's a good idea! On my Mosin last year I used electrical tape in the same manner and my accuracy went WAY UP! Bedding the barrel is the way to go.
 
My basic concept with the powder loads is to treat the X54R as a hybrid between the .308 and .30-'06, using effective .308 loads as starting points, and stopping a grain or two short of max Garand loads for the .30-'06. With the Russian 149gr bullet, steel case and IMR-4064, I just blue-skied a load of 49.0gr (my 150 Garand load is 50.0gr) tried it, and it worked well enough that I quit load development right there. By supplementing some of my steel case/jacket loads with IMR-4064, my supply of pulldown Russian powder gets conserved somewhat.

Foamies: Shop foam & foamies & kids & teachers at Joann.com Note that they come on various thicknesses (I use 5-6mm stuff for cheek pads and buttpad spacers), with and without peel-n-stick adhesive.
 
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Greg Langelius * said:
My basic concept with the powder loads is to treat the X54R as a hybrid between the .308 and .30-'06, using effective .308 loads as starting points, and stopping a grain or two short of max Garand loads for the .30-'06. With the Russian 149gr bullet, steel case and IMR-4064, I just blue-skied a load of 49.0gr (my 150 Garand load is 50.0gr) tried it, and it worked well enough that I quit load development right there. By supplementing some of my steel case/jacket loads with IMR-4064, my supply of pulldown Russian powder gets conserved somewhat.

Foamies: Shop foam & foamies & kids & teachers at Joann.com Note that they come on various thicknesses (I use 5-6mm stuff for cheek pads and buttpad spacers), with and without peel-n-stick adhesive.
Click to expand...

Gregg
Loaded few rounds for the MN yesterday with 44.6gr Varget, PPU brass, Federal primers, SMK 174gr BTHP (.311 diameter).
Will load few others today, same as above except less powder (43.5gr), I will also load Hornady 174gr BTHP (.312 diameter), with 43.5gr Varget, as well as 44.6gr
They will all start at COAL 3.000; eventually I will take head space measurement and will not use COAL but OAL but kinda want to keep it simple for now.
I will shoot these with the 43 Tula Sniper and will compare my reloads to the S&B Match 174gr; the Tula likes these.
As you mentioned, I also use similar powder loads on my TRG 22 .308 (bullets 178gr AMAX) and they work well.
Results will be posted after next trip to the range, looking forward to it.
Good shooting.
Ombre noire
 
ScharfshutzeK98 said:
Be sure to post up some target pics! Here is a pic of the kit in case anyone is interested.

Click to expand...

I did not look, yet, on how to post pics on SH but will eventually do so. That's some nice parts that you have made, good to have a "ready to go" kit available, someone should be interested. I am also working on few things and the "accuracy search" game is on.
My 43 Tula Sniper is pretty much set with brass shims and a "Finnish" trigger sear that breaks clean and safe at 2,7 lbs but I am also running "accuracy tests" on a 37 Izhevsk.
I installed, this morning, on the Izhevsk, electrical tape on the barrel, where the barrel bands are, and will give it a try on Friday. Later on, I will "cork" barrel and action (only barrel first, then both) and will compare the results of both methods.
I also ever so slightly bent the original trigger sear and my trigger pull went for 6.5 lbs to a nice 3.12 lbs. I ran the bolt hard several times and hit the rifle in different place, trying to recreate an accidental drop but no issue. The trigger feel nice and solid, no accidental discharge; I gave the same treatment to the Finnish trigger sear, as it was originally breaking at 4.7 lbs (as I mentioned above, it is now at 2.7 lbs).
I will try both rifles first with surplus and factory ammo and if it goes well, will move on to my reloads.
"The road to accuracy follows mysterious paths", especially when working with rifles made up to 1945 and many of them had a rather rough life. One good thing is that they were built like a tank and it shows when in 2013, people like us are working toward giving them a "new life", without changing the integrity of the rifles. What works for one may not work for the others but the quest for accuracy is an addictive game, and a fun one too.
You know, you developed your own accuracy kit, btw how does it work on your MN?
Good shooting.
Ombre noire
 
Hi...This is what I have done to a Tula '32 Hex...

Cleaned and cleaned again, paying particular attention to getting the chamber area using a 12" gauge bore brush. With that and polishing the bolt, the old girl does not have "sticky bolt." But the trigger had a longgg pull and groups were 2-3" at 100.

Bought from a guy on Ebay, a new Finn trigger and sear spring, and the (I think from C&R) "bolt spring." With that, the bolt cycled much easier, and was shiny.

The trigger...now here's the odd thing...went to a long pull (as before), but then to a click I can feel...(and can see the bolt move up slightly) and then a relatively crisp 3lb. fire, kinda like a two stage trigger (I guess). I also had added a bit of shimming to the area under the sear spring screw as I have seen on some U-tube vids. I like it... I KNOW when she's gonna go boom.

The old stocks wood shellac was poor, and after stripping, sanding and finishing with tung oil, "shim bedding" with home made shims (much like the fellows above) and wrapping the barrel, the groups tightened somewhat and she looked like 1942 .

Still could not use the iron sights as the eyes are going...pounded off the front and rear sights, bought a airgun scope rail and ring combo for 15-20 bucks, a Hi-lux 2-7x32 scout scope at 125$ and a ATI plastic stock for 75$ from Amazon. Got some pillars and hex head action bolts from Rock Solid Ind. and floated, pillared and bedded the stock with some J.B. weld. Added a cheap ATI bipod to the front swivel... and it's a 1"-2" shooter. All day long... have about 500 rounds through her now, and if I could find a place to shoot 500+ yards, I'll bet I could hit what I'm aiming at.

So for about $400, it looks "modern", shoots and cycles pretty good, and aside from the stock refinish, have not upset any traditionalists as I can put it back to "stock". (doubt I ever will, however). I coulda bought a Savage Axis or something else new, but that's not as much fun, (and I do have another hex I'm leaving stock.)

Thinking about sawing some off the barrel, threading and installing a AK-74 muzzle brake. A friend bought the die kit and did that, didn't help the recoil much as I can tell, but it looks "bad-ass" (his words).

Interesting about the "reloading" of the Milsurp ammo, will have to try that, maybe get to 3/4".

I am Bubba.
 
I have only 're-engineered' surplus rounds from Novosibirsk (Plant 188) with the 49.1gr load. Other plants (like 60, Frunze) use other (lower, 47.9gr) charge weights.

Information regarding propellants used in the surplus ammo is sketchy, being confined to source (a letter), a lot, and a year. Far as I can tell, my Frunze and Novosibirsk ammo both get their propellants from source 'C', but beyond specific lot and year, there's absolutely no assurance that the propellants are actually even similar.

I advise caution when re-engineering these loads; start lower, and I view the published charge weights as both potentially speculative and an absolute max.

If I got 3/4", I'd be proud as Punch; I'm only hoping for 2".

As of Tuesday, my three 91/30's (and another) are all set up with the Scout Scope arrangement I've been concocting, and are awaiting their first range outing in their current configuration and a zeroing session. Fingers crossed, it'll be fun to see what hath been wrought. Waiting on the weather; winds are forecast in the 15-25MPH region, and the ground still needs more time to dry out and get stable again.

Greg
 
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The Nagant has some interesting quirks, but I think most of them can really be made to shoot well. If you have one with a trigger that creeps and breaks like a piece of shit, check out Timney's trigger for them. It's an excellent addition, although depending on the price you paid for the rifle, you may have more money tied up in the trigger than the rifle.

The next thing to take a look at is the barrel itself. Because the wartime production was done so fast, a lot of times, the barrel is not actually drilled on center. I have seen this a number of times. You will have a straight borehole, but there will be unequal amounts of metal around it. This doesn't necessarily mean the rifle won't shoot straight, it just means you have an unconventional oddity on your hands.

The other thing that I would recommend is that you change the stock enough to get a good cheek weld. During the war, Russia was so strapped for cash and materials that they were actually pulling up fence posts to make stocks for the rifles, so ergonomics was never a question. The low slope of the stock makes it hard for a lot of people to get a good cheek weld.

The next thing I would do is work up a hand load. First experiment with charge weight, then experiment with seating depth. If you can't get it to shoot like that, then consider adding some kind of tension point to dampen the barrel and create another harmonic node near the front of the stock. Mausers used to have this and you can see the concept at work in the JAE 100 stocks for M1A's. You would then adjust the tension placed on the barrel at that point in an effort to change the harmonics and tighten groups up a little more. This is probably all unnecessary though because charge weight and seating depth will probably get you close enough for satisfaction.

Also, even though corking the barrel has been shown in a lot of cases to help the Nagant, I would start with free floating it and then adding the cork back later. The cork is basically a harmonic dampener and will act similar (not identically) to the barrel tensioner. If you free-float first, and then add the cork later, then you can be sure you have the cork applied evenly around the barrel. Otherwise you won't know the clearances and the cork could put uneven pressure around the tube.

FYI, the ATI stock is decent for ergonomics, but you will need to hollow it out to put the Timney trigger in.
 
Hi Guys
Went to the range yesterday, had several tests to run on the 2 MN, only had limited time (and I was bullshitting with other shooters, didn't help) but it did give me some info. Sorry, still no pics; the choice was easy: learning on how to post pics, or going to the range...went to range.
Izhevsk 37, iron sights, 50 yards (didn't have time to go to 100, next time).
After removing felt around barrel and the paper/cardboard shims from the stock, I wrapped electrical tape on the barrel, where the 2 barrel bands are, nothing else (this was suggested by another SH's member but cannot remember who it was; thanks anyway, appreciate it). Took me few times to figure out the correct thickness but once done, the electrical tape gave me better results.
I first noticed that the rifle was not shooting as high as before (still a bit high though, I should have been a bit low at 50 yards). I am still thinking of the adjustable Smith-Sights but this one is my Wife's rifle and she complains if/when I put something not original on her rifle. I may do it anyway ;)

Izhevsk 37 results:
With Russian surplus ammo: 2.341 MOA, so nothing to brag about, shot only one group of 5.
With Factory Sellier & Bellot 174gr Match (.311 diameter): 1.164 MOA, shot only one group of 5.
Remember this is at 50 yards, not 100 so multiply x2.
Did not have time to shoot my reloads with this rifle but will do so soon.

Tula 43 sniper
Checked out speed for different rounds (RCBS chronograph). Don't take these as a solid base, as I shot only one round of each and the RCBS chronograph is OK but not the most accurate. As I only wanted a ballpark figure, it was no big deal for me.
Russian Surplus, 147gr, 148gr or 149gr (not sure but close): 2848 fps
PPU PRVI Match 182gr: 2658 fps
Tula ammo 148gr: 2862 fps
Sellier & Bellot 174gr Match: 2689 fps

My 4 different reloads were:
COAL: 3.000 (did not measure OAL but will do so once loads well established)
SMK 174gr (.311 diameter), 43.5 Varget, PPU brass, Fed. primer: 2.486 fps.
SMK 174gr (.311 diameter), 44.6 Varget, PPU brass, Fed. primer: 2.599 fps.
Hornady 174gr Match (.312 diameter), 43.5 Varget, S & B brass, Fed. primer: 2589 fps. (Questionable? Different brass?).
Hornady 174gr Match (.312 diameter), 44.6 Varget, PPU brass, Fed. primer: 2599 fps.
Only one shot with each kind but it allowed me to know that I was within reasonable speed.
I was running out of time, so I set up a target at 100 yards and fired one shot out of each load, just to see if I was on target, or close enough.
1st shot was close to the bulls eye, which was a good sign (I will re-zero my scope with these reloads).
It was the SMK, 43.5 varget.
2nd shot went right under the first shot.
SMK, 44.6 varget
3rd (Hor. 174, 43.5 varget) and 4th shot (Hor. 174, 44.6 varget) went in the same hole as 2nd shot. I had to recheck two or three times with my spotting scope, I think the hairs on my head went straight up, looked like I put Viagra in my shampoo.
For the ones who like numbers, the 4 shots measured at 1.154 MOA, the 3 shots were at .104 MOA. Yes, I know it is not 5 shots, but believe me, I can live with that.
I think I just got lucky, as I would have been happy with not as good of results, but was I pleased, Hell yes, it made my day.
This was only a short test and I don't give it much importance, as the real stuff will come when I will put groups of 10 on target.
I noticed that the brass shim under my barrel (at the end of the hand guard, closer to the crown) moved a little; will have to fix that before next range session, or was it because it moved that the accuracy went so well...??? I think I am not going to touch it, for now.
I had a front and rear bag, sunny day (70F.), wind low. For the purists, I didn't check altitude density, elevation, humidity, Coriolis effect and the planet's alignment, as I was only shooting at 100 yards (but it always sounds Tacticool...).
I torqued my stock at 35 feet/lbs and it was not loose after shooting (only fired 12 rounds with the Tula, will keep an eye on it, as it was getting loose at 25 feet/lbs).
This rifle has thin brass shims under barrel, chamber, action and tang. For the ones looking for equipment to reload their MN, this is what I have and it works for me (not saying you have to use the same). Dies are RCBS with .311 expander, scale/dispenser is RCBS (electronic kind), got 2 priming tools, Sinclair and RCBS (the big one that you screw on your bench), used the later for these rounds but the Sinclair is damn good too. Electric RCBS pro-trim, press is Redding T7 and all chamfering, deburing, uniforming is done with RCBS electric platform (can't remember the proper name).
I did not check the concentricity of these reloads but it looks like the RCBS dies did a decent job.
The PPU brass was easy to work with, the S & B brass is good too but the primer pockets were a bitch to uniform, as they run a bit small; once done, no issue with setting primers. I noticed my primers were somewhat a bit too deep but looks like it was no issue for my firing pin, as I had no malfunction. Thanks to the Russian/Belgium Engineers, they built a tough, reliable SOB.
This is it for now, the rifles are clean and ready to go for next range session. I do not expect one hole groups but if I can stick with MOA, it will be just fine. Then it will be time to explore further out.
Good shooting.
Ombre noire
 
Tempest 455 said:
A Timney will make a HUGE difference.
Click to expand...

I do no doubt it but i am trying to stick within the realm of possibilities and means a WWII shooter would have been working with. The only change I may consider is the addition of a bipod and my own reloads.
I have other rifles that are modern tack drivers and are a blast to shoot too. Nevertheless, I am looking at making the MN as accurate as it could have been back in the days. It is a bit more tricky but more interesting, to me anyway. Nothing against shooters "modernizing" their MN; it is just not my quest with these two rifles.
As of now, the Izhevsk's trigger is at 3.12 lbs and the Tula Sniper is at 2.7 lbs, breaks are nice, consistent and predictable. I do not want/need to go any lower.
Good shooting.
Ombre noire
 
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The 174 SMK over 43.5 of Varget is my long-range accuracy load.
Seems to be almost universal, as many shooters have reported excellent results with this load- and I've supplied others with this round and they've found it to be extremely accurate as well.
 
For box ammo, best accuracy I have found actually so far is the 182g Russian match. Have not tried any hand loads but that ammo is better than any box ammo and I have tried a bunch.
 
Tempest 455 said:
For box ammo, best accuracy I have found actually so far is the 182g Russian match. Have not tried any hand loads but that ammo is better than any box ammo and I have tried a bunch.
Click to expand...

For Factory ammo, so far, I had the best results with the Sellier & Bellot Match 174gr, may be because they are at .311 and my bore slugged at .313.
 
Wannashootit said:
The 174 SMK over 43.5 of Varget is my long-range accuracy load.
Seems to be almost universal, as many shooters have reported excellent results with this load- and I've supplied others with this round and they've found it to be extremely accurate as well.
Click to expand...

This load seems to work well in my rifle too, on par with the Hornady 174 Match but I only tried it at 100 yards, so far. Looks like 44.6gr of Varget was doing well too, Can't wait to stretch it to see the difference further out.
 


Got the pics going, took me a while ;) These are the only groups I shot on that day, as I had limited time and ammo, so they are what they are. I also used a Chronograph to check on bullet's speed but I explained all this in a prior post, as well as the particularities of each rifle.

100 yards, 43 Tula Sniper/PU.
Brass shims, Finnish trigger sear, trigger at 2.7 lbs.
4 rounds with 4 different loads. Scope zeroed with factory ammo, need to re-adjust scope to the reloads.





50 yards, 37 Izhevsk.
Electric tape on barrel (under barrel bands), worked on original trigger sear, trigger at 3.12 lbs.
Center mass shots with factory Russian surplus ammo, not so good but I think it's me (cold shooter), as I started with these. Head shots with factory Sellier & Bellot 174 Match, rifle likes these better.
Electric tape works better than felt but she still shoots a bit high.
I will have to try my reloads on this rifle too.



43 Tula Sniper/PU, I wish she could talk...

Next step is to load enough rounds to be able to check the consistency of each kind; I will also check if there is a difference in accuracy, shooting the same loads with 7.62x54r brass and 7.62x53r brass.

Have fun and good shooting.
Ombre noire
 
Hi guys
Another trip to the range. I comment on it here, with more details:
"7.62x54mm Rimmed Russian vs 7.62x53mm Rimmed? Same thing, or different?"
It is also a Post on "Vintage Sniper Rifles".

Results at 100 yards were decent. Rifle is Mosin-Nagant 43 Tula Sniper/PU.



Close up pic of my rifle, real or fake Sniper? Can take more pics if necessary. The #58 is also on the scope mount and the # on the left side of the chamber is also on the scope (no force matching, or electro pencil). What do you think?



I appreciate your input.
Good shooting.
Ombre noire
 
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If your not worried about keeping it unaltered...I have taken and two pointed bedded several Mosins over the years...basically bed around the rear tang (use electrical tape on the edge of the rear tang because it is angle cut and a few thousands clearance makes it easier to remove) and bed under the rear tang...then bed around the fornt of the rec'r and about an 1" under the barrel...USE Felpro CORK gasket material and palce it under the front end of the barrel where the front handguard retaining ring goes this will lock the barrel out front thus keeping ti from flopping and contacting the sides of the wood as the bullet travles out the muzzle...

I have used this method to tighten up groups in several Mosin rifles
 
btrapr said:
If your not worried about keeping it unaltered...I have taken and two pointed bedded several Mosins over the years...basically bed around the rear tang (use electrical tape on the edge of the rear tang because it is angle cut and a few thousands clearance makes it easier to remove) and bed under the rear tang...then bed around the fornt of the rec'r and about an 1" under the barrel...USE Felpro CORK gasket material and palce it under the front end of the barrel where the front handguard retaining ring goes this will lock the barrel out front thus keeping ti from flopping and contacting the sides of the wood as the bullet travles out the muzzle...

I have used this method to tighten up groups in several Mosin rifles
Click to expand...

Hi btrapr
So far I have cork shims up front and brass shims in the back, works pretty well; about 1" 1/4, 1" 1/2 at 100 yards/meters (reloads). Rifle shoots accurately up to 960 yards and I am looking forward to reach further. At one point, I will not be able to see the target anymore with the 3.5 PU but so far, so good.
Love shooting this rifle ("43 Tula sniper).
Ombre noire
 
Nice shooting. You have a good rifle. Anyone doubt the PU? On another site we have shattered the myth that the PU was a red headed step child and shown that they can kick serious butt. I have a couple dozen sub-MOA groups I could post if a host site was not required. I hate photobucket and the lot and will not have an account. My pics will likely not be needed anyway.
 
Mike Radford said:
Nice shooting. You have a good rifle. Anyone doubt the PU? On another site we have shattered the myth that the PU was a red headed step child and shown that they can kick serious butt. I have a couple dozen sub-MOA groups I could post if a host site was not required. I hate photobucket and the lot and will not have an account. My pics will likely not be needed anyway.
Click to expand...

Thanks Mike
Great shooting and you have a better rifle ;)
I can only wish I had a couple dozen sub-MOA groups with my MN, may be one day... ;)
So far I am having fun shooting distances and trying different powder, in these days of hardship.
 
By the way, I do not see where anyone answered your question about was your rifle a PU when it left Tula in 1943. Yes, it was. The marking are proper and the C H are nicely stamped. The ATI guns were heavily discussed and are real refurbed PUs. Although most Tula PUs left the factory without a scope number on the shank, many refurbished PUs have the most recently installed scope number on the barrel shank. Originally Tula matched the optics package to a given rifle by putting the rifle number on the mount. Izhevsk, on the other hand, put the scope number on the barrel shank and no number on the mount. Either way, the optics could be kept with the rifle to which it was originally mated and zeroed to. Refurbs can get any combonation of these systems often times electropenciled to the mount and sometimes both the scope numberr and rifle number are electopenciled to the mount. Enjoy.
 
Mike Radford said:
By the way, I do not see where anyone answered your question about was your rifle a PU when it left Tula in 1943. Yes, it was. The marking are proper and the C H are nicely stamped. The ATI guns were heavily discussed and are real refurbed PUs. Although most Tula PUs left the factory without a scope number on the shank, many refurbished PUs have the most recently installed scope number on the barrel shank. Originally Tula matched the optics package to a given rifle by putting the rifle number on the mount. Izhevsk, on the other hand, put the scope number on the barrel shank and no number on the mount. Either way, the optics could be kept with the rifle to which it was originally mated and zeroed to. Refurbs can get any combonation of these systems often times electropenciled to the mount and sometimes both the scope numberr and rifle number are electopenciled to the mount. Enjoy.
Click to expand...

Mike
That's a good way to start the day, so thank you for the great news. Allow me to elaborate a little on this; there are so many "fake snipers" on the market, some very well made and it is sometimes a challenge to figure it out, especially if the "job" was made in Russia. Years ago, I would have been very disappointed if I would have found out that she was a "fake sniper"; then I started to built a "relationship" with this rifle, working on it, trying to find out what she liked, or did not liked, in ways to improve her accuracy. It was good to start with, I just wanted it a little better and, especially, more consistent. I did not reload back then, so shooting the surplus ammo was often a challenge, as there are good, decent, so-so and crappy surplus ammo. Reloading answered many questions and was of a great help to improve the accuracy and the consistency of the rifle. It showed right away if the last change in shims (cork, felt, brass, electric tape or whatever else I could think of) worked, or not, as well as any other modifications made to the rifle; can't beat that.
Long story short, I would have survived the disappointment of finding out that she could have been a "fake sniper" because of the fact that, no matter what, she is a good rifle but don't get me wrong, I am thrilled to the fact that she is the real thing; it makes each shooting session a bit more "special" and that is priceless. I started my relationship with guns in the Military and they were just tools, back then; I liked some of them, disliked others. I learned, later on, that a sniper rifle is of a different kind, it gets very personal because of the intimacy between the shooter, the rifle and the target. The rifle does not make the sniper, it is not for everyone but if it is in you, you are hooked for life. Much to say about this but it could be for a different topic; I am somewhat older now and I learned to appreciate a good thing.
Thanks again for making a good morning feel great, I will dedicate my next bullseye to you ;)
Sincerely.
Ombre noire
 
Ombre noire said:
Mike
That's a good way to start the day, so thank you for the great news. Allow me to elaborate a little on this; there are so many "fake snipers" on the market, some very well made and it is sometimes a challenge to figure it out, especially if the "job" was made in Russia. Years ago, I would have been very disappointed if I would have found out that she was a "fake sniper"; then I started to built a "relationship" with this rifle, working on it, trying to find out what she liked, or did not liked, in ways to improve her accuracy. It was good to start with, I just wanted it a little better and, especially, more consistent. I did not reload back then, so shooting the surplus ammo was often a challenge, as there are good, decent, so-so and crappy surplus ammo. Reloading answered many questions and was of a great help to improve the accuracy and the consistency of the rifle. It showed right away if the last change in shims (cork, felt, brass, electric tape or whatever else I could think of) worked, or not, as well as any other modifications made to the rifle; can't beat that.
Long story short, I would have survived the disappointment of finding out that she could have been a "fake sniper" because of the fact that, no matter what, she is a good rifle but don't get me wrong, I am thrilled to the fact that she is the real thing; it makes each shooting session a bit more "special" and that is priceless. I started my relationship with guns in the Military and they were just tools, back then; I liked some of them, disliked others. I learned, later on, that a sniper rifle is of a different kind, it gets very personal because of the intimacy between the shooter, the rifle and the target. The rifle does not make the sniper, it is not for everyone but if it is in you, you are hooked for life. Much to say about this but it could be for a different topic; I am somewhat older now and I learned to appreciate a good thing.
Thanks again for making a good morning feel great, I will dedicate my next bullseye to you ;)
Sincerely.
Ombre noire
Click to expand...


It is great to give you good news and even bad news, when factual, is best. Shoot me and email and I will send you some pics. Having been to Russia 3 times, and seeing the museums, I am very impressed. I collect snipers from WW2 and have over 50. The PU made a huge impact on the war.
 
Mike Radford said:
It is great to give you good news and even bad news, when factual, is best. Shoot me and email and I will send you some pics. Having been to Russia 3 times, and seeing the museums, I am very impressed. I collect snipers from WW2 and have over 50. The PU made a huge impact on the war.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike
Email sent, looking forward to check out pics.
 
mike,
Any chance of sharing pics on this thread? Really like these rifles also. Shot mine today out to 600 yds. Great respect for these rifles & greater for men & women that shot them. Appreciate any info you can share on them. Thanks Bolt56
 
Wow! I don't know how I missed this thread!:confused:

Some of these 91/30s can teach you a lot about what makes a gun shoot (or not). I've ran into at least a few that have damn near every problem you could come across, all rolled into one rifle! BUT, sorting them out and getting them up to snuff was fun and educational (and, yes, addictive!). But, I love them, warts and all. I'll be shooting in another VS match on Saturday (as well as a Sako M39 for the morning service rifle match). So far, they've done very well for me. Hoping for more of the same, this weekend.;)

John
 
Good luck John. I bet you will do the Mosins proud.

Bolt, I am not a fan of picture hosting sites and do not have one. I post a bunch on another forum.
 
John and Mike, you are the living meaning of the words "just one more"...I think the words are plenty "accurate", I could not think of a more appropriate term, especially when talking about "sniper rifles" ;)
 
Hi, guys. Just a quick follow-up.

I shot the CMP vintage military match on saturday morning. Despite being slightly hung over :rolleyes:, I managed to shoot first place in that class with my '43 Sako M39 and made the bronze cut score (missed silver by two points!).

For the vintage sniper match, we shot first place, as well. My brother is my usual partner, but wasn't able to make it. So, my good friend and shooting buddy used my '44 Tula PU and I ran the '39 Tula PEM. In all fairness, there were two other teams that shot higher scores than us. However, one member of each team was running an AR (one of them with a crazy long barrel and 20x Weaver target scope). They got to shoot it for fun, but were out of the running because of the modern rifles. One of the team members on one of those teams was running a Springfield with an original Unertl 8x scope and his individual score was higher than mine by probably ten points. Having shot with him before, I know that he's the one to beat, given that rifle and the fact that he's just a damn great shooter (and a heck of a nice guy, too). All in all, though, it was a great day and we had a lot of fun.

Here's a couple pics of me prepping on the 600 yard line, along with my friend, Tom, on the spotting scope.


 
Thanks, guys!

Ombre noire said:
Congrats to both, nice shirt too ;)
Click to expand...

I was going to wear my black, 1939 PEM shirt (to match the rifle I was shooting:p), but it was just too damned hot to be wearing black. LOL!
 
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