Really impressed with the Federal results. I couldn't get any of the Federal ammo to shoot worth a crap out of any of my rifles.
The Midas + is some fantastic ammo.
- Thread starter Kisssofdeath
- Start date
The Midas + is some fantastic ammo.
First off I want to say thanks for the write up. Very informative really appreciated. I'm in a little bit of a quandary I just sold my vudoo this week. I had it for a year and never made the time to shoot it enough to justify it so I sold it back to the gentleman I bought from. I'm going to purchase another rimfire now but going to use part of the money to fund my new bow for this year. I was pretty set on the CZ 527 with the A one stock either in 17 or 22, but now... I've come across this thread. Which way would you steer me? Sorry if I'm high jacking this thread.
I have a Vudoo and the Bergara. Given my experience with both, the Bergara is just a hair behind the Vudoo but it's really too close to call since I have over 5000 rounds through my Vudoo. If you are somewhat limited on budget then have no worries. The Bergara will treat you well. Here is a link to the video I did for Precision Rifle Network.
As a side note to the issue I had with ejection, Bergara sent me a new bolt the next day. Have since put around 400 rounds through it with the new bolt and have had zero issues. My groups have also tightened up since I've been shooting it more and they have all been sub-moa.
Looks and feels great in an MPA BA Comp chassis. Mine has already found a new home in the chassis and it is amazing.
I'd rather not say who the stock is from. They have T E R R I B L E communication and customer service. I don't mind giving accolades when possible. But, that is not the case in this scenario. So, I'd rather not say. I will say, however, the rail and adjustable butt stock was built in my shop.
Done a lil ammo testing. Wind was 4-9mph from about 4:30.
Going to explore more with the Wolf MT, along with some Wolf MT Extra.
And Yes. I did go back to the factory stock. I didn’t like how the other stock balanced with the shorty 18” barrel. I’ll be on the look out for a used MPA Comp chassis to put it in.
Going to explore more with the Wolf MT, along with some Wolf MT Extra.
And Yes. I did go back to the factory stock. I didn’t like how the other stock balanced with the shorty 18” barrel. I’ll be on the look out for a used MPA Comp chassis to put it in.
SK Rifle Match is on my wish list. May have to add some Wolf Target Match to that list.
For now, I have Center-X, Midas +, SK +, CCI SV, CCI Clean Tgt, Eley Club and Target, on the shelf waiting for the weather to warm a little so I can get out a nd shoot. Last few days have been hovering around 0* with 5-10mph winds.
For now, I have Center-X, Midas +, SK +, CCI SV, CCI Clean Tgt, Eley Club and Target, on the shelf waiting for the weather to warm a little so I can get out a nd shoot. Last few days have been hovering around 0* with 5-10mph winds.
I'm an MPA dealer. I've had several lite's pass thru the shop. I run an MPA comp on my centerfire match gun, so might as well set this one up the same way. I'm always on the look out for used chassis for a good deal. If I run across one cheaper than I can buy new, I'll snatch it up.
Wolf Match Target Extra is actually more consistent in weights vs Match Target. It's a touch more $, but the occasional flyer doesn't fly as far with MT Xtra vs MT. Most of my sponsored small bore shooters use MT for practice, so I always have a bunch of it on the shelf. I did, however, just order 5K rounds of Xtra for myself.
I know the feeling about the temps. While the kestrel read 46F, it damn sure didn't feel like it. We've had a shit ton of rain/ice and the 9mph wind skipping across wet ground sure made it feel colder.
Not much of a story, it come with the land purchase.
How did the Elf Trigger work out ? Were you able to get very light and the trigger hold it?
Yeah, that shorty 18" doesn't really make it easy to balance without up front weight. That's the reason I pulled my from the CF Composite, as there really isn't a good way to add weight up front. I think the MPA Comp will do the trick for me.
It didn't. The housing was too wide to fit through the trigger guard. The trigger is back at Elftmann getting refitted with their new and improved slimmer trigger housing. At least that's what I'm told.
1st post here, thanks for starting a great write up KoD! I finally got a chance to put my Bergara B14R together and test it out...
A few notes:
A few notes:
- Rifle Config: B14R, bedded EGW 30 MOA rail, Vortex Diamondback Tactical 6-24 MRAD FFP in Warne permanent attach low rings.
- Action screws torqued to factory spec 55 in-lbs (only mentioned in fig 8.1 in the manual).
- Lowest trigger setting is ~2.25lbs on my rifle.
- EGW 30 moa rail sits ~0.016" high on the front. Solved by bedding the front of the rail. Not sure if the rail or the retarded Rem 700 reference design is to blame.
- Fabbed a cheek rest 24mm extension out of 10mm aluminum spacer stock, to allow rapid return to my preferred height after removal for cleaning/maintenance.
- No feeding or extraction failures of any kind.
- 4 of the CCI SV's didn't ignite on first (or subsequent) strikes. Everything else went off just fine.
- Indoor 45 yard range, ~70F at the bench and 50F downrange
- Atlas bipod and small rear bag
- 5x 5 shot groups
- No fouling shots or cleaning between brands/boxes during ammo testing phase.
- Groups measured with a digital caliper, raw size listed - 0.22" for the average.
- Wasn't particularly careful about shot placement or focus. Table was wobbly and I have at least a 1/10 moa wobble in my body/eyes as well. Bolt was run hard, nearing typical match pace.
- Except for 1 sight in shot, pictures show every round fired from the gun so far. Progression was top to bottom, left to right.
- Looks like I can run SK Rifle Match (when my last two bricks of Fed UM22 run out), and get my wish for near 100% sub-MOA performance out of <$8 ammo! I'm stoked with this rifle!
1911Shootist, those groups look great. I have also found that mine really shoots well with SK Rifle Match. I shot another 1,000 rounds today, 500 of those through the B-14R. I'll post those later on. I like the WTF call, I get those too. You can get SK Rifle Match for less than $7 a box at some places.
With Center-X, I've had some small ones in the past, that are small enough to make me believe I might have pulled it, but that was the most dramatic I've ever witnessed. Shot was steady as could be, too. Just a really wild round, uncharacteristic of C-X.
I might have to try me some SK Rifle Match, my local range has it.
I forgot about having this post and created a new one. I will work on moving that material over here.
Edit:
The following post are taken from another thread I started.
I have had my B-14R for a few months now and have quite a bit of time and rounds invested in shooting it with various ammo torque settings and triggers. Torque settings on the action screw is something I haven't played with much on any rifle of mine; I normally set it on 20 in/lbs and leave it. Currently I am torn between 20 and 40 for my setting. So far I have accounted for 3,100 rounds shot with 3,500 being a more accurate number.
What I want to touch on with this review are things you can't already read about but if you have specific question, ask and I will try to help.
First item to discuss are triggers.
Factory Trigger:
My factory trigger was very bad if I recall it was around 3 lb. It may have been a little less but even so.... So to shoot to the full potential of the rifle I felt I needed to get a different trigger.
TriggerTech Diamond:
Based on recommendations in here and what I read I went with the TT Diamond as first choice. The TT Diamond was a total fail. To be a safe trigger without AD's the advertised pull weight was not even close. Even when getting it safe the pull itself was very inconsistent which resulted in a few AD's from that. AD's in the beginning was caused by bolt closure, AD's in the end was caused by trigger pull weight inconsistency. Also the bolt was very hard to open and hard to move back and forth. Keep in mind, I'm not talking hard to the point it could barely be done but it was noticeably more difficult than with the factory trigger. One thing I did like was the flat trigger shoe.
Elftmann Tactical R700 SE:
I decided on Elftmann because I got a good deal at $200 shipped. What I didn't know was I was only getting the curved trigger shoe and the flat one was not included. The installation was straight forward without issue. But, when I tried to put the trigger guard on, it wouldn't fit and was hitting the bottom of the trigger housing. I'm not going to go into it much with Elftmann unless someone wants to hear the finer details. Currently they know about the issue with the Bergara HMR stock and are in the process of developing a new, slimer housing. Mine is at Elftmann being fitted. According to Cara at Elftmann it will ship out next week. We will see. Things I notice while I had it in was the same hard bolt manipulation as with the TT Diamond. The minimum trigger pull weight was also not as advertised. For the price I paid I'll just wait on this one and use in a RimX, Deuce or Vudoo barreled action. Also it will come with both shoes when received.
Bix'n Andy TacSport PRO Single Stage:
Grand Slam! This trigger is amazing. I never did anything to it but install it. The pull weight is a consistent 2 oz just as advertised. The bolt manipulation is just like it was with the factory trigger. It does have an extremely small amount of take up then a nice break. It does have overtravel that I talked with Bullet Central about and they tell me it's supposed to be that way and that B & A has a different way of thinking about having overtravel and no having it. I may try some things to remedy this. I credit the easier bolt manipulation on the fact they B&A offers their trigger with 3 choices of bottom sears. When I measured my cocking point to the trigger pin hole mine was close to the middle of the default 3.8mm bottom sear.
i have read where people say the bolt is harder to work because of the firing pin and/or firing pin spring. Based on my experience it is directly related to the upper and lower sear relationship and has nothing to do with the firing pin spring weight.
Some rifle characteristics that may not be know.
1. The barrel is threaded into the receiver.
2. The bolt knob has a M6X1 thread pitch. This is the same as the CZ 457. Your typical R700 knob will not fit without an adapter.
3. There's no plastic anywhere except for the spacer system for LOP adjustment.
4. The feeding is controlled round feeding, just like the Vudoo is.
5. Chamber is a match chamber where the bullet engraves the rifling.
Here are a few photos that may be of interest.
Some don't like this design because of the supposed increase lock time. IDK, I like the ease of disassembly. I will continue on with another post showing accuracy results from a few days ago.
The following post are taken from another thread I started.
I have had my B-14R for a few months now and have quite a bit of time and rounds invested in shooting it with various ammo torque settings and triggers. Torque settings on the action screw is something I haven't played with much on any rifle of mine; I normally set it on 20 in/lbs and leave it. Currently I am torn between 20 and 40 for my setting. So far I have accounted for 3,100 rounds shot with 3,500 being a more accurate number.
What I want to touch on with this review are things you can't already read about but if you have specific question, ask and I will try to help.
First item to discuss are triggers.
Factory Trigger:
My factory trigger was very bad if I recall it was around 3 lb. It may have been a little less but even so.... So to shoot to the full potential of the rifle I felt I needed to get a different trigger.
TriggerTech Diamond:
Based on recommendations in here and what I read I went with the TT Diamond as first choice. The TT Diamond was a total fail. To be a safe trigger without AD's the advertised pull weight was not even close. Even when getting it safe the pull itself was very inconsistent which resulted in a few AD's from that. AD's in the beginning was caused by bolt closure, AD's in the end was caused by trigger pull weight inconsistency. Also the bolt was very hard to open and hard to move back and forth. Keep in mind, I'm not talking hard to the point it could barely be done but it was noticeably more difficult than with the factory trigger. One thing I did like was the flat trigger shoe.
Elftmann Tactical R700 SE:
I decided on Elftmann because I got a good deal at $200 shipped. What I didn't know was I was only getting the curved trigger shoe and the flat one was not included. The installation was straight forward without issue. But, when I tried to put the trigger guard on, it wouldn't fit and was hitting the bottom of the trigger housing. I'm not going to go into it much with Elftmann unless someone wants to hear the finer details. Currently they know about the issue with the Bergara HMR stock and are in the process of developing a new, slimer housing. Mine is at Elftmann being fitted. According to Cara at Elftmann it will ship out next week. We will see. Things I notice while I had it in was the same hard bolt manipulation as with the TT Diamond. The minimum trigger pull weight was also not as advertised. For the price I paid I'll just wait on this one and use in a RimX, Deuce or Vudoo barreled action. Also it will come with both shoes when received.
Bix'n Andy TacSport PRO Single Stage:
Grand Slam! This trigger is amazing. I never did anything to it but install it. The pull weight is a consistent 2 oz just as advertised. The bolt manipulation is just like it was with the factory trigger. It does have an extremely small amount of take up then a nice break. It does have overtravel that I talked with Bullet Central about and they tell me it's supposed to be that way and that B & A has a different way of thinking about having overtravel and no having it. I may try some things to remedy this. I credit the easier bolt manipulation on the fact they B&A offers their trigger with 3 choices of bottom sears. When I measured my cocking point to the trigger pin hole mine was close to the middle of the default 3.8mm bottom sear.
i have read where people say the bolt is harder to work because of the firing pin and/or firing pin spring. Based on my experience it is directly related to the upper and lower sear relationship and has nothing to do with the firing pin spring weight.
Some rifle characteristics that may not be know.
1. The barrel is threaded into the receiver.
2. The bolt knob has a M6X1 thread pitch. This is the same as the CZ 457. Your typical R700 knob will not fit without an adapter.
3. There's no plastic anywhere except for the spacer system for LOP adjustment.
4. The feeding is controlled round feeding, just like the Vudoo is.
5. Chamber is a match chamber where the bullet engraves the rifling.
Here are a few photos that may be of interest.
Some don't like this design because of the supposed increase lock time. IDK, I like the ease of disassembly. I will continue on with another post showing accuracy results from a few days ago.
Next we will discuss accuracy.
Accuracy wise, this rifle is no different than any other quality made rifle and that is, it's still ammo dependant. My Tikka T1x's have shot just as accurate. It's my opinion that accuracy not only depends on matching the correct ammo to the gun but also on shooter technique, consistency and ability along with things like having great triggers, optics with enough magnification and the right reticle. When I look at my groups as well as others groups I think to myself, " this rifle with that ammo shot this way on this day". Reason being, next day may be different with everything else being the same or close to the same. It's just the way rimfire is. Having said all this I will now show the CAPABILITY of this rifle, my rifle shot with said ammo and said everything else as listed on each plate/target. I have a lot of targets exactly 62 plates shot with my B-14R. I'm not going to show them all but will, I dare to admit, cherry pick my plates. I mean, who wants to see a crappy shot plate anyway. Here goes in order of date shot with earliest date being first.
To be continued. All the above targets were shot with either the factory trigger or the TT Diamond.
Accuracy wise, this rifle is no different than any other quality made rifle and that is, it's still ammo dependant. My Tikka T1x's have shot just as accurate. It's my opinion that accuracy not only depends on matching the correct ammo to the gun but also on shooter technique, consistency and ability along with things like having great triggers, optics with enough magnification and the right reticle. When I look at my groups as well as others groups I think to myself, " this rifle with that ammo shot this way on this day". Reason being, next day may be different with everything else being the same or close to the same. It's just the way rimfire is. Having said all this I will now show the CAPABILITY of this rifle, my rifle shot with said ammo and said everything else as listed on each plate/target. I have a lot of targets exactly 62 plates shot with my B-14R. I'm not going to show them all but will, I dare to admit, cherry pick my plates. I mean, who wants to see a crappy shot plate anyway. Here goes in order of date shot with earliest date being first.
To be continued. All the above targets were shot with either the factory trigger or the TT Diamond.
One thing I believe is prevalent and that it this rifle may shoot better without the Sparrow. This is unusual because every rifle I have that is threaded shoots better with the Sparrow. Also it appears the B-14R shoots good with the Sparrow with the receiver screws set at 20 in/lbs. I'm going to repeat all the Eley ammo as I feel I wasn't shooting my best at that time.
That wraps it up. I am happy I bought this rifle and would buy it again. I believe Bergara screwed us over on the trigger. The T1x and the 457 can have a decent trigger from the factory and on rifles that cost just half as much the B-14R does then Bergara could have done it too. One last thing I want to add and that is, out of the 3,500 rounds I have shot, not once have I had a failure to feed, extract or eject. Out of approximately 1,100 rounds fired with the Bix'n Andy trigger I have had zero cocking issues or zero AD issues when closing the bolt.
I would like for other B-14R owners to share their experience.
That wraps it up. I am happy I bought this rifle and would buy it again. I believe Bergara screwed us over on the trigger. The T1x and the 457 can have a decent trigger from the factory and on rifles that cost just half as much the B-14R does then Bergara could have done it too. One last thing I want to add and that is, out of the 3,500 rounds I have shot, not once have I had a failure to feed, extract or eject. Out of approximately 1,100 rounds fired with the Bix'n Andy trigger I have had zero cocking issues or zero AD issues when closing the bolt.
I would like for other B-14R owners to share their experience.
I wanted to go back and od a little more experimenting and reshoot the Eley. Today was a nice day for that. Results are as follows.
First up is Lapua Pistol King. I wanted to shoot a full 50 rounds with my Sparrow and the action screws set at 20 inlb.
Wanted to reshoot SK Flatnose Match. This is consistent ammo and I'll probably try find this lot number with Cathy at Good Shooting.
SK Rifle Match. Shot this to check consistency. I'll be getting more of this lot number too if it's available. The 5th shot on each of the last two groups screwed up a good run. Still not bad though. When I put a question mark down that means everything looked and felt good on my end but it just didn't happen.
Next I decided to see what SK would do suppressed and at 40 inlb on the action screws. Not bad, better than I had expected. I didn't make a scope adjustment the entire day. As you can see with the Sparrow on the impact shifted up and left.
CCI SV. What is a day at the table without shooting CCI.
Well I'm done with the B-14R until my Elftmann comes in. Cara said it was completed today and will ship out tomorrow. Really looking forward to that to see how a trigger with zero take up and zero over travel will feel.
First up is Lapua Pistol King. I wanted to shoot a full 50 rounds with my Sparrow and the action screws set at 20 inlb.
Wanted to reshoot SK Flatnose Match. This is consistent ammo and I'll probably try find this lot number with Cathy at Good Shooting.
SK Rifle Match. Shot this to check consistency. I'll be getting more of this lot number too if it's available. The 5th shot on each of the last two groups screwed up a good run. Still not bad though. When I put a question mark down that means everything looked and felt good on my end but it just didn't happen.
Next I decided to see what SK would do suppressed and at 40 inlb on the action screws. Not bad, better than I had expected. I didn't make a scope adjustment the entire day. As you can see with the Sparrow on the impact shifted up and left.
CCI SV. What is a day at the table without shooting CCI.
Well I'm done with the B-14R until my Elftmann comes in. Cara said it was completed today and will ship out tomorrow. Really looking forward to that to see how a trigger with zero take up and zero over travel will feel.
Who's got the best deal on the B&A TacSport Pro 2-stage? Looks like reg retail is 295.
This was a very nice read and a lot of good information. Thank you for documenting everything!
Seems the SK Rifle Match is shooting the best out of most of these rifles. I know mine loves it.
Happy to help. Let me know if there's anything else I can do. Happy shooting!Shout out to SgtJKM! J was very informative regarding my fire control & extractor issue. I will have a better grip on things after I have a chance to get out and shoot this weekend.
Thanks for the compliment. I'll post the Eley results soon. I had them separated from the SK and forgot about them.
Thanks. This a hobby and passion of mine. I try to offer information and insight on different things and give real world results and exposure to different firearms. Hopefully this can help people make the right buying decisions.
The best price I know off is where I bought mine. That would be Brownells but only when they have their 10% off sale which they offer 2-3 times a month. Get on their mailing list to get the notification. I got mine for $267 shipped. They now start charging taxes so if you found a sale somewhere else with no tax or shipping it may be cheaper. Seems like the Bix'n Andy prices are the same everywhere.
SgtJKM, I would agree; SK Rifle Match is a safe bet for almost any rifle.
KOD I really like your write ups, however shooting off a wobbly plastic table lessens the validity of your shooting results and also your decisions that you need a new barrel, trigger, etc. or a change of action screw torque. You can get a concrete bench or just shoot from the ground and see a major improvement of precision with little to no cost. If you overlay your groups on a paper plate I think you will be able to see the inconsistencies, also you will have less fliers. I do appreciate the reviews you do. Please don't take this the wrong way.
Not taken the wrong way at all. I enjoy constructive criticism, it makes me think. But to answer your questions or suggestions, I would never be able to lay down on the ground and shoot 800 to 1,000 rounds in one day. Besides that, I'm a hefty guy "if you know what I mean". The table is not too bad really. I have a lot of weight on it, it's pretty steady. I have thought several times about pouring a concrete pad and building a table with a roof over top but since I hope to move to VA this year I didn't want to invest the time or money into it especially when a potential buyer may not like it.
When you move to Meadowview I know where to get a concrete bench top premade at a good price. I don't live far from Meadowview and will be glad to help you out and introduce you to the various rimfire competitions we have locally.
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If changing torque changes groups like that it needs bedding. Something is binding and it will also change with different positions/grip and forend pressure, and weather. Your chasing your tail.
Looking forward to that. Thanks for the offer to help.
Also here are those Eley targets I forgot about.
tatman3715, if you have a gun that shoots .25" groups all day long and with several brands of ammo to boot, you need to be entering BR competitions and making wagers. .25" groups "all day long" is pretty phenomenal. Can you give me a 10 for 10 .25" group in the same format I shoot? You can find the paper plates anywhere and the dots can be found at a lot of places to. Put ten dots/circles on a plate like I do and post the results. I'm not saying you can't do it or haven't done it. But, I am saying I would like to see it.
^ I'd say it.
You should enter some local benchrest competitions. You'd basically win everything, every time.
