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Cabelas Ashbury Saber M700 build

What stock for APO Saber M700?

  • Keep CTR with Riser

  • Upgrade to Saber Tass

  • Upgrade to Luth AR MBA

  • Upgrade to LMT 5.56 DMR

  • Other

  • MDT - Skeleton Carbine Stock

Results are only viewable after voting.
Weatherby_Eyebrow

Weatherby_Eyebrow

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Full Member
Minuteman
Feb 20, 2019
165
100
Oregon
Quicklinks:

Scope base Info
Arca Swiss / RRS Rail Info



While I had intended on getting a APO Saber M7000 SH edition it became evident that it was more feasible to build one on my own mostly due to funding. That and I went down to the store and held one, they always seem to follow me home when I do that.

My first upgrade I would appreciate some advice on is the stock.

The Cabelas version comes with a double locking folding AR carbine extension tube hosting a Magpu CTR with cheek riser. This does not give me a to of flexibility for anything but length of pull adjustments and those will not be particularly fine.

I can upgrade the stock to the Saber Tass Shoulder Stock but it ends up being about a $530 upgrade after I trade in the old CTR setup and buy the new stock and locking mechanism.

Alternatively would a precision oriented AR style stock hinder me much if any? I had looked at Magpul PRS Gen3 but even setup on a carbine buffer the LOP would be far too long as the folder bracket adds about 1.75-2" of extra LOP and the PRS Gen 3 already gets heat for being long.

So far I've considered these as candidates:

Luth AR MBA - While I like the concept I never liked the play and slop they have in them. You can crank down the tension screw but something does not sit right with me on a stock that is designed to fit either a commercial or a mil spec buffer tube and they just have a tension device you crank down. I do like the the price point.

LMT 5.56 DMR - This is currently my top pick as I believe the shorter LOP vs. the Magpul PRS will work even with the extra 1.75" as I'm a pretty big guy and it seems to be pretty adjustable. They are known to fit like a glove on mil-spec tube. I'm wondering if there are just too many parts to work loose. I suppose I can buy a heck of a lot of Loctite for the $230 (+ an extra CTR take off) bucks I would save.

(Late addition to the poll)
MDT - Skeleton Carbine Stock - With version ranging from 11-5/8 to 14-1/4 LOP depending on the buffer tube used it's in the running except for the $349 price tag plus in my case maybe a new longer buffer to get it in the right range.

Other stocks to consider?

Any advice is much appreciated.
 
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I litterally just got home from picking mine up at bass pro. The magpul one will work for now but an upgrade is eminent. My buddy has luth on his AR10 that ill ask to borrow. I also have quite a few AR butstocks that i will try on. Call me cheap but at this point I cant justify spending more than $150 on a stock.
 
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Doing a little research tonight on scope bases since there is not much room forward of the action.

I measures 148.38mm (5.84”) from the hand guard to the back of the action.
7042627


The APO 20 MOA scope base is only 139.7mm (5.5") long so it easily fits.

Spuhr R-7601 6mil scope base is 145mm (5.7”) so it should fit but may be tight. I hope to get down to MHSA and try one on for size this week.

Badger Ordnance 306-06 / 306-06A looks like it will be too long with the extra overhang up front. They don't list dimensions but I'm betting not.

Nightforce A293 Aluminum - Confirmed fits by both 2aBaCa and myself.

Nightforce A115 Steel - Too long
 
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2aBaCa said:
I just put on the nightforce 20 moa, like # 296
Click to expand...


I think you meant A293, also to note this is the standard duty aluminum version, the extreme duty steel version looks like it has an extended front that would not fit.


I think i may order me this exact same base tonight. I cant justify the extra 35% cost for a Spuhr aluminum base.
 
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Thats an interesting rifle for the money... Can the buffer tube be swapped so you could run a Magpul PRS?
 
Weatherby_Eyebrow said:
Just crank down the tensioners once you get it where you like and its nice and solid?
Click to expand...
Yea the two surfaces are teethed so you really don't have to crank on them hard. I get used to my aics and my APO risers and then put my face on the MBA3 it reminds me of how comfortable it is.
 
Sutherlandsd said:
Thats an interesting rifle for the money... Can the buffer tube be swapped so you could run a Magpul PRS?
Click to expand...

Yeah, standard AR buffer tube and nut. Which there are endless parts for. In fact, hold my beer...

Chassis is solid. They say composite but it feels like aluminum and locks open.
 
Sutherlandsd said:
Thats an interesting rifle for the money... Can the buffer tube be swapped so you could run a Magpul PRS?
Click to expand...

The new PRS Gen 3 will take a carbine buffer out of the box but....


... it probably wont do you any good. I measured my AR-15 with a CTR stock on it and the M700 with the CTR stock all the way in and found a difference of about 1.75-1.9" longer on the M700 due to the folder bracket. If you add that onto a Gen 3 PRS with a min LOP of 14.3" you end up just over 16" LOP min. If you are 7 ft tall, then you should be set. I know the older PRS stocks had shorter LOP by a bit but that 1.75 is tough to make up especially if you are a shorter dude.

I'm 6'4 with caveman arms 6'6 wingspan and I'm aiming for 14.25 and I'd like to be able to go 13.25 to 15.25 without swapping out hard parts. This is an educated guess until Frank and Mike go WTF and sort me out in July but it's based off Franks training videos and podcast.


If you like the PRS, check out the LMT DMR stock, it's practically the same only a bit shorter.
 
2aBaCa said:
Yeah, standard AR buffer tube and nut. Which there are endless parts for. In fact, hold my beer...

Chassis is solid. They say composite but it feels like aluminum and locks open.
Click to expand...


There is nothing composite except the stock it's self as far as I can tell. The hinge is solid, the only jiggly part is the CTR on the tube even with the friction lock engaged (on mine). I've got 4 CTR stocks at the moment and most of them are pretty sold but it seems to be finding the right tube with the right stock to make it 100% solid. This is why I want to swap it out for something a with a more robust mechanism (Luth AR, etc) to keep it 100% solid or something that does not use a buffer tube - Tass upgrade. IMO less parts to wiggle loose the better.
 
I'd spring for the Saber TASS, even if it means using the CTR for a bit while you save the coin.

If you're going to have an Ashbury might as well set the chassis up with the buttstock that was designed for it. Any AR stock will feel like a bandaid in comparison.
 
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Today's Saber M700 time sink was to find a ARCA or RRS spec full length dovetail. I had asked Frank in his thread for the SH edition about what his plans were and he suggested he was going to use a 9" or 11" HRD universal rail kit. I liked his idea but the hand guard is 13.5" long so I went looking for longer options. Then I found this:


Area 419 - ARCALOCK 14″ Universal Dovetail Rail

7043525



It looks like I can cheat maybe 1/4-1/3 of inch back past the hand guard so with the 13.5 + the rear cheat it might overhang 1/4 or a little less up front. I think I can live with that.

My plan is to use the forward part with the generic holes to interface with MLOK slots toward the front and perhaps use the existing sling stud hole if it lines up.


For the rear I would skip using the action through bolt ( see red X) and instead drill a hole in the hand guard on the next hole (green arrow) closest to the action. Additional holes will be drilled in the two forward holes if needed for strength. Who does not like drilling a brand new rifle :)

7043526



That will put the hole some place around here.

7043528
 
Area 419 Universal 14" rail! Looks like it will fit perfect and I only have to drill one hole in the rear.

Note: Magpul MLOK screw heads are too big to fit in the universal channel however Area 419 said they have some you can purchase with the rail.

The screws that come with it are 10-32 and have a head measurement of .312 wide and are about .102 thick.

Since you need 10-24 screws for the MLOK nuts I ordered these for the MLOK:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#92220A162


These 10-32 for the sling stud and other holes I drill and tap:
https://www.mcmaster.com/#92220A172

The last hole before the barricade stop is bigger, I'm going to try using the hole in front of it, with a bolt. The hole closest to the universal slot hits the 4th and most rear MLOK slot, so I'll use that. 3 MLOK nuts into the other SLOTS and lastly one bolt into the existing sling stud. Hopefully 5 bolts with one on either end preventing shifting forward and aft movement should be rock solid.


7045075
7045076
7045077
 
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Have you cycled a full mag of rounds through it? I have with some dummy rounds and encountered an issue feeding.
 
2aBaCa said:
Have you cycled a full mag of rounds through it? I have with some dummy rounds and encountered an issue feeding.
Click to expand...

Not yet, I don't have any dummy rounds and I'm not brave dumb enough to try that with live rounds in my house. What sort of issue did you have?
 
The tips of the bullet hit the bottom of the feed ramp and nosedive causing a jam.
 

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Happens if the bullets shift forward in the mag, sometimes just the friction of the sliding round being removed from the mag is enough to shift the on deck round forward just enough.
 
Cant remember off the top of my head but shorter than a hornady match eld 147. Longer than cheap winchester 125.

With an empty mag in can you feel a lip under the feed ramp?
 
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2aBaCa said:
Cant remember off the top of my head but shorter than a hornady match eld 147. Longer than cheap winchester 140.

With an empty mag in can you feel a lip under the feed ramp?
Click to expand...

No lip, mine is pretty smooth.

From what I found the 147 ELD Match should be spot on with the 140 ELD Match if not a tad shorter for COAL. I found a forum post where a guy measured from 2.80 to 2.8065 COAL for the 147 from batch to batch.
 
The Wins were 125gr. I bought a few dif boxes. Cant remember exactly, the match were the longest. But the dummy rounds were in the middle as fas as length. Not that it matters, any bullet that slid forward could get stuck.
 
Does your magazine have a binder plate? This will keep the cartridges from shifting in the mag and getting under the lip in the action. At least it is supposed to. It also shortens max coal. I’ve read that you can also have that little lip milled so that bullets don’t get caught...

Just in case you don’t know what I’m talking about with the binder plate. Scroll down for explanation.

Shop MDT AICS Magazines for Bolt Action Rifles

MDT AICS Magazines offer reliable feeding in your hunting or competition bolt action rifle. Available in 3 to 12 round and polymer or metal from .223 to .338.
mdttac.com mdttac.com
 
hlee said:
Does your magazine have a binder plate? This will keep the cartridges from shifting in the mag and getting under the lip in the action. At least it is supposed to. It also shortens max coal. I’ve read that you can also have that little lip milled so that bullets don’t get caught...

Just in case you don’t know what I’m talking about with the binder plate. Scroll down for explanation.

Shop MDT AICS Magazines for Bolt Action Rifles

MDT AICS Magazines offer reliable feeding in your hunting or competition bolt action rifle. Available in 3 to 12 round and polymer or metal from .223 to .338.
mdttac.com mdttac.com
Click to expand...
This.

Savage actions typically can run the long coal mags fine but I think most Remington 700’s need to be notched for them.
 
Am i missing something here? If this is normal. How is it ok to sell a rifle packsge that has a known issue with off the shelf factory ammo?
 
2aBaCa said:
Am i missing something here? If this is normal. How is it ok to sell a rifle packsge that has a known issue with off the shelf factory ammo?
Click to expand...
Because thats how every remington is...
What mag are you using? (see hlees link above for decription and illustration)
 
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It came with a pmag ac so that's what I'm using for now.

If I modify the feed ramp could I use AW mags?
 
2aBaCa said:
It came with a pmag ac so that's what I'm using for now.

If I modify the feed ramp could I use AW mags?
Click to expand...
That is strange that its happening with the magpul, saw your blue follower and figured it was an mk machining in an arc mag or something. But I can see the magpul wall geometry now. Does seem weird that the magpul is letting that happen...

No, you cant easily get the aw to fit, the action would need to be opened up an then a longer release lever to get it at the proper height.
Notice that the aics is much skinnier, and that its a single feed. You would need to open up the feed port in the action to even allow it to be inserted and then you have to overcome the fact that single stacks present the round relatively higher than the double stack does.
7045730

(also notice that the aics has a binder plate present, that stops the bullet from being so far forward that it catches under the feed lip as demonstrated in the MDT link from hlee)


What caliber are you running and what ammo is that? Im guessing thats the sierra tipped matchking or gamechanger?
 
6.5CM It's a dummy round from a pack I bought off Amazon. Its oal is shorter than the Hornady Match 140s. Which hit it just by inserting the mag. The dummy's dont always hit, maybe every other mag one slides forward just enough. With an empty mag inserted I can reach in, push down the follower and feel the lip under the feed ramp.

Edit for clarity.
 
Last edited:
2aBaCa said:
6.5CM It's a dummy round from a pack I bought off Amazon. Its oal is shorter than the Hornady Match 140s. Which hit it just by inserting the mag. It doesn't always happen, maybe every other mag. With mag inserted I can reach in, push down the follower and feel the lip under the feed ramp.
Click to expand...
Strange, first time Ive ever heard of the magpuls not feeding properly. I would call up APO on the phone and have them discuss it with you.
 
5 minutes with a dremmel and its done. ?


video uploading.

Before and after pic. Looking through the bottom of the Pmag installed. Floorplate removed. You can clearly see the feed ramp lip the one on the left that the bullets used to hit. On the right smooth sailing. Cycled about 100 dummy rounds not one jam up.
 

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2aBaCa said:
5 minutes with a dremmel and its done. ?


video uploading.

Before and after pic. Looking through the bottom of the Pmag installed. Floorplate removed. You can clearly see the feed ramp lip the one on the left that the bullets used to hit. On the right smooth sailing. Cycled about 100 dummy rounds not one jam up.
Click to expand...


Nice! - Cycles the dummy rounds fine now?
 
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