I don't have optimism or confidence. I have data. The data are the truth.
- Thread starter supercorndogs
- Start date
Read my mind as I was posting
Thanks for the relevant link. (I had posted from my phone where linking and uploading is a bit tedious.)
The linked publication has a lot more details about Moderna.
It's a really interesting read. I suggest many others read it as well.
Moderna, the leader in mRNA technology, has been trying for years to use the technology in treatments (that's where the money is), but could never get the technology to work safely. As the treatments progressed, so would the side effects, relegating the technology to minimal dosing regimes such as vaccines.
This is why using this technology continually in additional doses ala "boosters" is a bit frightening...
How long till the vax is totally useless. Just how long will they beat this dying horse?
What will be the new mandated rollout for the sheeple?
Maybe the next batch can be combined with a recreational drug.
Call it the STFU vaccine.
What will be the new mandated rollout for the sheeple?
Maybe the next batch can be combined with a recreational drug.
Call it the STFU vaccine.
The majority of "cases" they are counting, are in the unvaccinated, because of the reasons laid out in the O.P. Everyone who is quarantined is counted as a positive COVID case, and people who have been vaccinated are not being quarantined. The majority of people who are being quarantined never get sick. They were simply exposed to someone who tested positive with a recalled test, that has an extremely high false positive rate.Vaccine efficacy is not "yet unknown." It's literally the most studied scientific question in the world right now, and possibly ever, with billions of data points.
The overwhelming majority of new cases are among the unvaccinated by a tremedous margin. Adding "exclusively" to the end of the sentence just repeats the same nonsense: that the vaccine is not perfect. There are breakthrough cases, but they are quite rare and remain so, perhaps not as rare as was hoped, but still rare. Verifying this fact takes mere seconds:
Monitoring Incidence of COVID-19 Cases...
After the COVID-19 B.1.617.2 (Delta) variant reached predominance, fully vaccinated people had less risk of infection, hospitalization, and death.www.cdc.gov
There was a time not long ago where there were 20x more infections in unvaccinated than vaccinated, that number has diminished but it is nowhere near 1. It is several times more than that. Those numbers are not close.
A year ago, we were all hoping for a 60 or 70% effective vaccine. It sounds like you wanted a 100% effective one. I never thought there was going to be a vaccine at all for a coronavirus, so I'm thrilled that it's way more effective than I expected.
To double down on their number doctoring fiasco, they run PCR tests 40 cycles for the un-vaxed and 20 for the vaxed, greatly reducing the false positive rate for the vaxed.
In later news, did you know you can sign up for a program to get tested multiple times per week and get paid 25 dollars for each time you get tested? Seems pretty necessary doesn't it?
It certainly seems to make sense to move forward with them with an abundance of caution. Espceily when dealing with a disease like COVID, with a very low mortality rate, and with safe effective therapeutics.
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This exactly. A blind hurry toward political gains and objectives, a panic rush to provide answers to questions yet unknown, the masses believing lies based on half truths, the absolute refusal to admit mistakes and take responsibility by the scientific and medical fields has led to a failure to provide effective therapeutics and a rational approach to care. And with all this abundantly clear...people will still not think for themselves.
During the early experiments with introducing external mRNA into cells it was discovered that the desired protein production would work for a week or two and then stop. Dr. Malone suspected the immune system being responsible for this, based on his training as an MD.
It easier to trigger an immune response with mRNA than to use it as a long-term therapy for missing proteins in the body. Hence the pivot of Moderna to vaccines.
The difference between mRNA vaccination and traditional 'weakened virus' vaccines is that the latter conveys more characteristics of the virus to the immune system. Therefore, the traditional way can be expected to be more robust towards variants of the virus because the virus would have to change more things to evade the adaptive immune response.
Additional thoughts for you geeks:
Here is the simplified pathway from the instructions encoded in the DNA to proteins in the cells.
The process shown above the DNA section happens every time a cell divides. The two strands of the DNA are complementary, i.e. have the same information but encoded in the opposite direction. Direction is indicated by the 3' and 5' nomenclature on the ends of a sequence. The DNA is duplicated by splitting it in half and then generating the complementing strand from molecular building blocks.
Below the DNA molecule is the transcription process we are trying to hack with external mRNA. Unfortunately, what happens in reality is much more complex than this simplified pathway.
You can deduct this complexity without knowing the details by asking: "How does the cell know how much protein to make and when?" That info needs to be in the DNA too and will most likely be expressed through different pathways.
Here is the intro into this mind-blowing subject: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK21121/
Then we could ask another question: "How does this system audit the results?" Even much simpler processes of our society use quality control and financial audits to assure that instructions are followed to the letter. Do we think a system with ~30 Trillion cells doing things at the same time can get away without something similar? (If you like learning more about this stuff, read the whole books on the NCBI site; it's free.)
The challenge for our society is to make smart decisions while the majority of the decisionmakers is unwilling or unable to dive into these rabbit holes of knowledge. And let's not forget that even the experts are only at the beginning of understanding the full complexity.
Instead of proceeding with respectful caution we are faced today with this
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Based on some of the above info it would seem to make sense that a booster would be less risky if it wasn't mRna based? This shit has to transition into a blend of vaccine and therapeutics. It's obvious vaccination has hit a wall. So, hopefully we see some massive breakthrough in therapeutics.
Moderate-certainty evidence finds that large reductions in COVID-19 deaths are possible using ivermectin. Using ivermectin early in the clinical course may reduce numbers progressing to severe disease. The apparent safety and low cost suggest that ivermectin is likely to have a significant impact on the SARS-CoV-2 pandemic globally.
Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of COVID-19 Infection: A Systematic Review, Meta-analysis, and Trial Sequential Analysis to Inform Clinical Guidelines
Repurposed medicines may have a role against the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The antiparasitic ivermectin, with antiviral and anti-inflammatory properties, has now been tested in numerous clinical trials.We assessed the efficacy of ivermectin treatment in reducing ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has
been identified.
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
been identified.
Review of the Emerging Evidence Demonstrating the Efficacy of Ivermectin in the Prophylaxis and Treatment of COVID-19
After COVID-19 emerged on U.S shores, providers began reviewing the emerging basic science, translational, and clinical data to identify potentially effective treatment options. In addition, a multitude of both novel and repurposed therapeutic agents ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov 
Que blaming the unvaxxed kids.
Next vaxx mandates for kids.
When the same shit happens again they'll manufacture "another"crisis to divert attention.
R
Obvious? The overwhelming majority of new cases are still unvaccinated people. We have the answer. We just have people unwilling do what needs to be done.
I am convinced if we had a draft tomorrow, that the American people would see the US overrun by the enemy before they would enlist. I didn't always think that. And I agree with most of them that the government has no credibility. But I also don't see the point in letting the enemy overrun the United States.
Actually that's just factually not correct and has been refuted by every credible source in the world. The majority of cases, hospitalizations, and deaths are among the unvaccinated because vaccines work. If you don't believe the data, you probably cannot be convinced anyway, but if you can be convinced, 5 minutes with any inpatient nurse working at any hospital in America is probably the only hope of reaching you.
The test is very sensitive, but it is very sensitive for everyone as well. If we had this sensitive a test for measles, we'd be talking about breakthrough measles cases, too.
Well, not true in places like the UK and Israel.
Well, once again, if 100% of the people were vaccinated, 100% of new cases would be breakthrough cases.
It doesn't change that the vaccines make you vastly less likely to get infected, and if you lose that statistical lottery, drastically less likely to be admitted to the hospital or die. The numbers ain't close. The fact that anyone believes otherwise at this point speaks more to the innumeracy of the population rather than the facts.
Only for a short period of time.
It's why places like Israel are scrambling to boost their population, considering anyone 6+ months out of any doses unvaccinated.
You are wasting your time..
I know. I don't plan on engaging in debate.
The fact of the matter is, the reality doesn't line up with the shit that he's selling.
With that, I'm out. If people think these vaccines are the way out of this, they are in for huge disappointment.
Nonsense.
You don't plan on engaging in debate because you're a fundamentalist. There is literally no quantum of proof that could change your mind. The debate is for other people. You're already lost.
This is the most studied quantitative question in the world right now. And your position couldn't be more misinformed than if your response was that you stuck you fingers in your ears and hummed.
The people getting infected, admitted to to the hospital, and dying, are overwhelmingly unvaccinated. That will not change any time in the near future. And if it does, I'll change my mind.
But now, the numbers aren't even close, or even close to close. The evidence couldn't possibly be more overwhelming. Data are the truth.
Ok, Anderson Cooper!
UK to Fauci — We have a big problem…
UK Vaccination rates approach 90 percent but it’s not helping… Cases are exploding despite the very high Vaccination rate …
citizenfreepress.com OK, go ahead. Cite MSNBC and CNN for "all of the accurate numbers"...........
Nonsense indeed.
Yes, obvious. Everyone who wanted it already has it. Those that don't want it aren't going to get it. That's what i mean by hitting a wall. Mandating it will convince some. I don't think mandates will be as persuasive as the government thinks. I think this winds down with a booster round and a transition to therapeutics after the holidays.
If you're talking about overrunning the homeland you're not in touch with reality. The only thing that would evaporate faster than our divisions would be the enemy.
Actually it is factually correct, and exactly how they are counting cases.
The test has been recalled, As "not fit for purpose." At 40 cycles it statically useless for identifying COVID19.
Landmark legal ruling finds that Covid tests are not fit for purpose. So what do the MSM do? They ignore it
Four German holidaymakers who were illegally quarantined in Portugal after one was judged to be positive for Covid-19 have won their case, in a verdict that condemns the widely-used PCR test as being up to 97-percent unreliable.
Dude, I hope you have a master's degree in special education. Otherwise, you are wasting keystrokes.
The ignorant seem to view themselves as virtuous, they are not...only ignorant. We are not fundamentalist, critical thinkers maybe...set aside your fear. When you need us we will be there, it will be easy for you.. because we will be up front sacrificing.
The Unvaccinated Are Looking Smarter Every Week
There is a massive propaganda push against those choosing not to vaccinate against COVID-19 with the experimental mRNA vaccines. Mainstream media, the big tech corporations, and our government have combined efforts to reward compliance and to shame a...
A good summary of where we are on a global level. The narrative is crumbling and as you see in this very thread, the agit prop stooges have little to no credibility. Especially when they just repeat the same tired pravda sanitized script of talking points that has been hilariously and easily debunked by orders of magnitude. I'm done with these clowns and their propaganda.
What do I have to fear? You're the one engaging in ad hominem attacks instead of argument.
A person impervious to evidence is not a "critical thinker." I wish I knew where this crap got started. It's one thing to think and believe the government has zero credibility. It's yet something entirely different to assert that the opposite of anything the government says is true because the government is one of liars. And that's where we're at.
They’ve been bullshitting the numbers since day one, and continue to.
Any argument you have has been throughly thrashed already. We can explain this stuff to you, but we can't understand it for you.
Fear has driven this "pandemic". A statement like "data is truth.." Is ignorant. The vaccine has proven ineffective, with regards to the prevention and transmission of the virus. To say otherwise is ignorant of the data. Does the vaccine help with the severity of symptoms? Maybe...in some cases. The virus affects people differently, a lot comes into play with this one. The response to Covid has been terrible, far worse than the nominal incompetence we expect from government. The statement... that a majority of patients/deaths are from unvaccinated is simply not the case in my area. In other areas it might be true at any given time. Should a person get vaccinated? I can't say nor should I say..age, health come into play. That decision should be made by you and your doctor. The "data" is evolving and should be viewed as such, not taken as truth. In, at least as much, the decision making process with regards to "mandates". What you do and choose is for you and yours, I seek not to debate that choice. Please respect others and their choices. My experience has lead me here, yours may be different.
Half truth is still bs in my world. The vaccines drastically reduce the incident of infection. People who are not infected are not transmitting the virus to anyone. There are studies also showing that vaccinated people who somehow become infected are less likely to transmit the virus than those who are unvaccinated, but that is digging even further down the statistical rabbit hole. The fact is that the overwhelming majority of vaccinated people never get infected and are therefore incapable of transmitting anything to anybody.
I never said people should "fear" or that the government hasn't totally failed in its response, but that doesn't entitle you to your own facts. The statement "the vaccine has been proven ineffective, with regards to the prevention and transmission of the virus" is as close to false as false gets. Even just looking that the divergence between the lines in the graph above of COVID incidence in the vaccinated versus unvaccinated above (posted by someone else) demonstrates that statement is demonstrably, and to a quantifiable degree, wrong.
That people "should" get vaccinated is a policy question that you can decide for yourself. That said, someone would have to have a pretty messed up value system to think the supposed benefits of remaining unvaccinated exceed the potential costs.
FWIW, all of this has been the greatest government failure in the history of government. That doesn't entitle you to your own facts. The vaccines work, really well, way better than we could have expected a year or so ago. No, they're not perfect; I wish they were, but they aren't.
I’m starting on a 10 day quarantine today, as per where I had a nasal swab test done this morning. This hit me a little under 72 hours ago and aside from soaking the bedsheets-chills, fever-dreams, wicked ass cough and zero energy, I can’t say that for me, this is any worse than flu’s I’ve had in years past. I still have normal senses of taste & smell. The Dr. told me that for most folks the first 3 to 5 days are the worst.
Vaccines reduce the likely hood you will be quarantined and counted as an infection or a presumed positive. That was a person who had been exposed to someone who tested positive, until they test negative. That entire category of case is now unvaccinated only, hence the disproportionate amount of unvaccinated "cases" being reported.
Vaccines reduce the likely hood of a false positive from a recalled PCR test because they run them at 20 cycles instead of 40 cycles. That is the reduction in cases you are touting. Likely nothing more considering what is happing all over the world at the moment. I don't think its unlikely we will soon find out the "vaccine" is completely useless.
We need recovery treatments not mandates.
This is THE question. Ignoring the Natural Immunity discredits all of these charts, numbers and stats. It leads me to believe that it is not about science.
Where did all those naturally immune people go? Remember they were demonized as asymptomatic spreaders? Weren't they immune to COVID-19? Then the 100 million plus that caught the China flu and recovered that now have antibodies.
Science? I guess we can chalk this one up with the science that said the earth is the center of the universe, the earth is flat, the stars are gods, the moon is made of cheese and a few other idiotic ideas.
Science? I guess we can chalk this one up with the science that said the earth is the center of the universe, the earth is flat, the stars are gods, the moon is made of cheese and a few other idiotic ideas.
I wish you the best. A quick recovery. And hopefully nobody else in your circle gets it.
There are treatments out there.
You will quickly find out if you need to fire your doctor.
I fired mine, and got a new one but by that time was recovering.
I did register a complaint on liberal dr fucker, for all the good that does with the state.
You will quickly find out if you need to fire your doctor.
I fired mine, and got a new one but by that time was recovering.
I did register a complaint on liberal dr fucker, for all the good that does with the state.
I said the ignorant seem to view themselves as "virtuous"...Thank you for proving my point.
You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts. That is, until you join a political movement, at which point you are not entitled to your own opinions, but you are entitled to your own facts.
Thanks Greasly. This is my 4th full day and I feel like I’m on the mend. The headache & joint pains are gone and I’m only contending with sore ribs from the hacking and sauna like night sweats. Med Express didn’t prescribe anything and their parting advice was to rest and drink lots of fluids. In all seriousness I’ve been having a couple hot toddies everyday with a good amount of black velvet to offset all of the water & gatoraid I’ve been chugging. A cousin of mine and his wife got this a few days before me and their symptoms were a little more severe in terms of actual fever. He hit 104. I never got above 102. Although I normally run a degree lower than 98.6.
I've seen a bunch of studies that say natural immunity is weaker than vaccine immunity and one that said they were equal (that I read in its entirety and it still strongly advised vaccination).
There seem to be some people who are saying that vaccine + natural immunity may be the best we've got.
Let's face it, if there is no natural immunity to COVID (which I do not now and have not ever believed), we are all absolutely screwed, as it's going to take whoever it's going to take and there will be little we can do about it.
But natural immunity is not itself a solution IMO, as there are zero diseases that have ever reached herd immunity on natural immunity alone in the entire history of humanity.
There also were zero vaccines for any human coronavirus until last year, so we are living in cutting edge times. Sadly we have to make choices without perfect or even good information.
You've misunderstood my term " natural immunity".
I meant those who have had covid at least once with mild or almost non existent symptoms.
I know and am part of the population that rarely gets sick whether covid or prior flu outbreaks.
By your statements herd immunity will never be reached and we'll live under the never ending
booster, or those to come like this experimental therapy, indefinitely.
R
