- Thread starter Mark williams
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It's all a matter of perspective. Frankly, I am happy to see my world and your world collide once again. If we ever agree too much, I think that is the message from the heavens I just need to off myself.
The way the NCAA works is this.. all those that play "amateur" sports are not allowed to market themselves. Back in the old days, a player was able to get paid handsomely without even showing up to work for a "job". These days, players are not even allowed to have certain jobs.
What if say a player paid for his own way through college? Or maybe had an agent pay for him? You think he would be allowed to have his own endorsements and shoe contract? Nope! The NCAA does not want their slaves profiting. They want the whole pie for themselves.
If you watched the 2 aTm losses last year... well all I can say is those should have been wins. Or at the very least one should have been a win. If aTm would have just got one of those 2, they would be the 2012-2013 National Champions and not Bama.
If my aunt had balls, she would be my uncle
yup, like I said, the Slave Holders want to keep their slaves in check.
The problem Eric, and where the rules stemmed from, was back in the "old days" when players were paid then only the "big" schools were able to afford the best players. Schools like BSU and even some schools from "major" conferences wouldn't stand a chance against the checkbooks of the rabid alum of the major players. I don't think it would make for great football if we eliminate about 90% of the schools from being competitive and only watch those who are willing to pay huge. I'm not going to argue about fairness or whether or not players should be allowed a bigger stipend, etc. But the fact of the matter is the rules are in place now and if you break them you take the chance on the repercussions. Also, let's be honest; IF JFU is guilty, he wasn't trying to get money for gas, or to go to the movies or on a date. He was getting money to build a fat bank account and party like a rock star.
In your last statement you have two separate arguments. First, if a player paid his own way through school he wouldn't be on scholarship and under the umbrella of the NCAA rules regarding work. Now endorsements and a shoe contract are different because they fall under the category of amateur sport in general, but for the normal student paying their own way, they can work just like any other student paying their own way. ALL football events are classes and with few exceptions anyone is allowed to enroll in that class. Schools cannot deny participation (of the class, not traveling or playing in a game) as long as the student meets the criteria. As far as an agent goes, I don't know the exact laws or rules but I would doubt that an agent would be willing to gamble and front a great deal of money for a player that (may) not be good enough to even receive an athletic scholarship. That's a HUGE gamble and one I wouldn't be willing to take.
Funny all this talk about "Johnny screw up" Just so happens I know two of the coaches very well that were at the Manning Football Camp. He will have a ton of work to do to erase the "ass" he made of himself. I was told that it was "incredibly unbelievable" how Peyton handled this (and I'm quoting) "punk" Actually it was said that Peyton probably saved his football career.
It's a shame as the kid did some pretty amazing things last season.
Like Mike mentioned above, all this preseason rhetoric and rankings mean absolutely nothing. It actually doesn't even make good conversation for me. We'll all get to see what happens when the "rubber meets the road" shortly.
It's a shame as the kid did some pretty amazing things last season.
Like Mike mentioned above, all this preseason rhetoric and rankings mean absolutely nothing. It actually doesn't even make good conversation for me. We'll all get to see what happens when the "rubber meets the road" shortly.
I am not sure if Johnny Football wanted to be there. Big deal, so a kid does not listen to a bunch of low paid coaches. He's got bigger fish to fry. Manning save his career??? HAHAHAHAAH! That was a good one.
1) Competition - There is not much competition now.
- The big dogs will stay big dogs because they got market share, and they can pay coaches big bucks. It is said that one player is only 1/22 of a team, and even that one can be replaced.. but a coach is 100% of the team, and most likely you cannot just replace him. Not my quote, and may not be 100% true, but you get the idea.
- The little teams do not get a home and home, they have to play all their OOC games on the road. How is this even competition?
- Big money does not always means wins. See Los Angeles Dodgers. It will work itself out.
- This is not so much about competition, but more of a MAN givin what is due to him.
2) Agents and Shoe Contracts -
- Players are not allowed to have Representation (agents). That is just how it is. The Slave owners want to keep it this way.
- No endorsement of any kind to the players. Can't even make TV commercials. This here is a clear cut case of taking a man's right to work away so the Slave Holders can get the profits.
- Agents and Boosters pay for players all the time. They are still doing it now. We should just make it public and let the players pay the universities for tuition with their own income. Let the players be free men instead of slaves.
well, I don't really have a lot of respect for gun guys in general. they do not pay my bills, and for the most part I see most of them as Losers. So I like it when the Losers look down on me. I would not have it any other way.
Hey dag, how are the tigers going to be? I know their loaded with talent and people around here always view them as our top foe! What's your thoughts?
I think they will be better than the pre-season rankings show. No offense but I think their schedule this year is a bit tougher than yours. But that is how the cards fall, and I think that is partially why they didn't fare so well in this initial ranking.
I think they will be a good football team. Have a new Offensive coordinator, Thank God!!! If Les will keep his nose out of the offense who knows we might just beat a few folks!! lol
I think they will be a good football team. Have a new Offensive coordinator, Thank God!!! If Les will keep his nose out of the offense who knows we might just beat a few folks!! lol
If qb puts consistency there I think their offense will be there. They are always the team that can physical up with us!
-"Competition" is relative. If you think there isn't any competition now, I guarantee if you make it an open market there would be far less. One player is only one of 22, but schools get 85 scholarships, so it's not about only one player nor would schools only pay one player.
- The little teams play their OOC on the road because they play BIG teams and are able to get a large check either through partial gate sales, TV revenue or what have you. The point is Tennessee-Martin is not playing TAM to be a spoiler, they're playing to get a budget for next year.
-You're absolutely right, Big money does not mean a win and the Yankees are another example. But if a kid has a chance to get paid he may choose that school based on his paycheck not the chance of the school winning.
- The MAN is not due anything. Let's not forget that probably >90% couldn't afford to attend college and of that 90% a majority couldn't qualify to attend based solely on their academic abilities so get off the entitlement high-horse and realize that those players are already getting roughly $50K for tuition alone (U of A), >$200K if you're talking a school like USC. So the "MAN" is already getting what he's due.
And to be honest, I'm not going to discuss this any further with your bullshit hyperbole of "Slave Owners" as if they're not already given a HUGE opportunity. But I will address your last points.
- No one is "taking a man's right to work away". Any of those kids are more than welcome to NOT go to COLLEGE and go get a REAL JOB. They are being given a gift that, as stated above, most likely would not be available to them if it wasn't for their athletic ability. And here's more BS "Slave holders can get the profits". You mean the schools themselves? Or do you mean the programs that aren't "big time" and would have very little or NO funding. Last time I checked women's field hockey wasn't drawing the huge TV contracts but you know those teams aren't complaining when they're able to order Nike uniforms and top notch equipment and field care due to the big name football program supporting them. This entitlement mentality is absolute bullshit.
Now, believe it or not, here is a point where we may (at least partially) agree. I would WELCOME what college football would be with pay and kids paying for their college on their own. If you think the NFL is full of primadonnas imagine even less mature kids being paid big money. And again, if you're a sports agent are you going to front big money on potential? I bet Maurice Clarett's agent would be a little pissed don't you?
If you want to do that, just eliminate college football entirely and start NFL minor leagues.
What are "gun guys in general"? Can you paint a with a more broad and ignorant brush?
And I'll say this, we all know college success does not equate to NFL success. Add that JFU is only a freshman tells me that he's got a lot of physical and mental growing up to do. If I was a betting man like our friend Eric, I would lay odds that not only does JFU NOT make it in the NFL, but the rest of his college career is mediocre. I might even lay odds he doesn't stay until his senior year due to nefarious means.
Cartman, you remind me of my mother in law. She likes to talk and argue with shit she has no clue about. I like to always ask her to give me her experiences on her expertise. The answer is always , well I didn't but I'm old and this is what I've heard, fucking lame and ignorant. So I want you to tell me, mike, and dag your real life experience with big time college athletics.you may have played, I'd just like to know? When she comes to my house she is to sit in other room where I'm not at and keep her mouth shut . My wife knows this and make sure it happens since I've had whole family in tears on a couple occasions . You'll never here me argue about gun questions on this forum since I know enough about guns and great marksmanship to be stupid, so I just look and learn. As for the gun guys on this forum ,a lot are and have been in our military so I respect the hell out of those guys. Again I will wait on your experience with UA and all other big time programs!
Competition:
I don't see how you think by keeping things the way they are now, how you are creating a more competitive situation. Also who cares about competition. That will work itself out. Imagine if a little school like SJSU (in the Silicon Valley) could get boosters to pay for a kids education, and use sponsorship to market a big name? I hope you see your own point how there is no competition now. Small teams play big teams for money, it's not about being "competitive", it's about getting a pay check.
Football for Scholarships:
You can give me a $10,000 pet rock for free, but it does not mean it's worth 10k to me. Most players do not really care for scholarships, they want to play football . Most quality football players do not have an education above the 4th grade. Yet you are going to hand them a degree they do not earn? Each School in the SEC gets $30 Million a year from ESPN alone, so in a way you are not really GIVING the kid anything. It's quite the opposite really, HE IS A SLAVE, working for free.
Scholarship:
Lots of kids get scholarships and they do not even play football. I myself do not know why a football player is forced into slavery. In no other sports are there such demands as those put on football players. Actually I know why it is, it's so the Slave Owners can profit big! while the slaves have to work for food.
Slavery:
It's a all a matter of perspective. I have called these guys slaves for a good part of a decade now. Southpark 2 years ago made an episode based solely on the slave trade that is going on now in the NCAAF Crack Baby Athletic Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
NFL Minor Leagues:
There is no need for an NFL minor league. The NFL gets the development of players for free, it's called College Football. Why should the NFL change this? On the flip side, why should the NCAA change this? There is no need for them to change either. They get slaves for free, and do not have to pay them while they themselves earn Billions.
Please Discuss...
I have met a lot of gun guys in my life, and yes most of them are losers. I myself LOVE GUNS, but try to distance myself from the gun guys ;-) ahahahah
I like Johnny like the way I like RGIII and Russel Wilson, all are pass first and run 2nd. I think as a pure passer, RGIII could do quite well. They ran that poor guy (RGIII) way too much.
It's very hard to succeed in the NFL as a QB, so the odds pretty much say that Johnny will more likely flop in the NFL than succeed (this goes for all QBs, and I am not just calling out Manziel).
Just look at the 3 greatest College Quarterbacks in the past 15 years? Vince Young, Matt Leinart, and Tim Tebow. All 3 flopped in the NFL. Though I don't know if you really say VY and TT flopped. Young had some decent play at times. Tim Tebow won a playoff game. All 3 may have been big disappointments to the eyes of most, but lets be honest, compared to all their College Football Peers, they made it way further than most.
Competition:
I don't see how you think by keeping things the way they are now, how you are creating a more competitive situation. Also who cares about competition. That will work itself out. Imagine if a little school like SJSU (in the Silicon Valley) could get boosters to pay for a kids education, and use sponsorship to market a big name? I hope you see your own point how there is no competition now. Small teams play big teams for money, it's not about being "competitive", it's about getting a pay check.
- No you are talking what I said out of context. I didn't say we're creating a MORE competitive situation, I'm saying it would be much less competitive than we are now.
- "Imagine if a little school like SJSU (in the Silicon Valley) could get boosters to pay for a kids education, and use sponsorship to market a big name? I hope you see your own point how there is no competition now. Small teams play big teams for money, it's not about being "competitive", it's about getting a pay check."
I'm well aware of San Jose State. I actually laughed when you said that as SJSU is nothing to be proud of. Your marketing plan is flawed for a number of reasons due to many factors such as SJSU has virtually ZERO recocgnition outside of the SF area, and it's a D1 school but from a small, no name conference. I think in a perfect world that might work much as in a perfect world communism might work.
There is competition now and you know it. You're cannot honestly say out of the top 15-20 teams who's going to win anything this season. I don't care how well versed one is in research and betting, nothing is certain. Now if you want to discuss the span or depth of competition we can have that conversation but there is competition.
Football for Scholarships:
You can give me a $10,000 pet rock for free, but it does not mean it's worth 10k to me. Most players do not really care for scholarships, they want to play football . Most quality football players do not have an education above the 4th grade. Yet you are going to hand them a degree they do not earn? Each School in the SEC gets $30 Million a year from ESPN alone, so in a way you are not really GIVING the kid anything. It's quite the opposite really, HE IS A SLAVE, working for free.
Sorry Eric, but your logic is flawed. That pet rock may not be worth 10K to you, but others are waiting in line to pay 10K for that pet rock. And it's childish to say "they just want to play football". Great, we all would like to do what we want but there's this thing called reality. Too bad, they can't live out their fantasy and have to work for a living. In fact, one can argue that since most players do not have an education above the 4th grade they should not be allowed to go to college at all. They should not be handed a degree, they should have to earn it, which many don't and that is a personal pet peeve of mine. But regardless, that scholarship took a place in the university away from a deserving student and so, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, a tangible benefit/cost is there regardless if the perceived value is not. And HE IS NOT A SLAVE. To use that term is shameful and an insult to actual slaves.
Scholarship:
Lots of kids get scholarships and they do not even play football. I myself do not know why a football player is forced into slavery. In no other sports are there such demands as those put on football players. Actually I know why it is, it's so the Slave Owners can profit big! while the slaves have to work for food.
Few kids get FULL scholarships. They may get a few bucks thrown at them here and there but to have the university stroke a tuition check, R&B, and other incidentals is few and far between. But we know why, the collective of football brings a great deal of money to the university and that money is spent on much more than the football program. Again, no one is forced to play a sport for a free education.
Slavery:
It's a all a matter of perspective. I have called these guys slaves for a good part of a decade now. Southpark 2 years ago made an episode based solely on the slave trade that is going on now in the NCAAF Crack Baby Athletic Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's really not a matter of perspective. Slavery consists of NO freedom whatsoever and legal ownership of one human over another; not to mention the value of human life. I don't care what they call it but to call it slavery is utterly ridiculous.
NFL Minor Leagues:
There is no need for an NFL minor league. The NFL gets the development of players for free, it's called College Football. Why should the NFL change this? On the flip side, why should the NCAA change this? There is no need for them to change either. They get slaves for free, and do not have to pay them while they themselves earn Billions.
You either play by the rules or you don't. If you choose not to, you pay the concequences when caught. It's that plain and simple.
I don't see how you think by keeping things the way they are now, how you are creating a more competitive situation. Also who cares about competition. That will work itself out. Imagine if a little school like SJSU (in the Silicon Valley) could get boosters to pay for a kids education, and use sponsorship to market a big name? I hope you see your own point how there is no competition now. Small teams play big teams for money, it's not about being "competitive", it's about getting a pay check.
- No you are talking what I said out of context. I didn't say we're creating a MORE competitive situation, I'm saying it would be much less competitive than we are now.
- "Imagine if a little school like SJSU (in the Silicon Valley) could get boosters to pay for a kids education, and use sponsorship to market a big name? I hope you see your own point how there is no competition now. Small teams play big teams for money, it's not about being "competitive", it's about getting a pay check."
I'm well aware of San Jose State. I actually laughed when you said that as SJSU is nothing to be proud of. Your marketing plan is flawed for a number of reasons due to many factors such as SJSU has virtually ZERO recocgnition outside of the SF area, and it's a D1 school but from a small, no name conference. I think in a perfect world that might work much as in a perfect world communism might work.
There is competition now and you know it. You're cannot honestly say out of the top 15-20 teams who's going to win anything this season. I don't care how well versed one is in research and betting, nothing is certain. Now if you want to discuss the span or depth of competition we can have that conversation but there is competition.
Football for Scholarships:
You can give me a $10,000 pet rock for free, but it does not mean it's worth 10k to me. Most players do not really care for scholarships, they want to play football . Most quality football players do not have an education above the 4th grade. Yet you are going to hand them a degree they do not earn? Each School in the SEC gets $30 Million a year from ESPN alone, so in a way you are not really GIVING the kid anything. It's quite the opposite really, HE IS A SLAVE, working for free.
Sorry Eric, but your logic is flawed. That pet rock may not be worth 10K to you, but others are waiting in line to pay 10K for that pet rock. And it's childish to say "they just want to play football". Great, we all would like to do what we want but there's this thing called reality. Too bad, they can't live out their fantasy and have to work for a living. In fact, one can argue that since most players do not have an education above the 4th grade they should not be allowed to go to college at all. They should not be handed a degree, they should have to earn it, which many don't and that is a personal pet peeve of mine. But regardless, that scholarship took a place in the university away from a deserving student and so, whether you want to acknowledge it or not, a tangible benefit/cost is there regardless if the perceived value is not. And HE IS NOT A SLAVE. To use that term is shameful and an insult to actual slaves.
Scholarship:
Lots of kids get scholarships and they do not even play football. I myself do not know why a football player is forced into slavery. In no other sports are there such demands as those put on football players. Actually I know why it is, it's so the Slave Owners can profit big! while the slaves have to work for food.
Few kids get FULL scholarships. They may get a few bucks thrown at them here and there but to have the university stroke a tuition check, R&B, and other incidentals is few and far between. But we know why, the collective of football brings a great deal of money to the university and that money is spent on much more than the football program. Again, no one is forced to play a sport for a free education.
Slavery:
It's a all a matter of perspective. I have called these guys slaves for a good part of a decade now. Southpark 2 years ago made an episode based solely on the slave trade that is going on now in the NCAAF Crack Baby Athletic Association - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It's really not a matter of perspective. Slavery consists of NO freedom whatsoever and legal ownership of one human over another; not to mention the value of human life. I don't care what they call it but to call it slavery is utterly ridiculous.
NFL Minor Leagues:
There is no need for an NFL minor league. The NFL gets the development of players for free, it's called College Football. Why should the NFL change this? On the flip side, why should the NCAA change this? There is no need for them to change either. They get slaves for free, and do not have to pay them while they themselves earn Billions.
You either play by the rules or you don't. If you choose not to, you pay the concequences when caught. It's that plain and simple.
I like RGIII both on and off the field. I hope he has a full recovery and a long NFL career.
From a QB standpoint, I'm not either a VY or a TT fan. I thought they were at their peak in college and ONLY had success because they could run. If either one of them had to rely on their arm they would have played DII at best. Neither one will succeed as a QB in the NFL and I'm surprised VY had stayed as long as he has given how stupid he is (are you aware of his Wonderlic score?) TT has been so successful because he's a nice guy and people want him to succeed.
Matt Leinart is on a different plane. He won B2B NC's with USC and he's stayed longer (although without success) up to this point than VY and TT combined. He will stay around because he can actually pass the ball.
Schools like Ohio State and Bama will always get theirs. No need for them to change anything, even with change, they still will get theirs (quality coaches and recruits). The Bay Area is a Pro Sports Area, and there is really not that much excitement for College Football. Cal and Stanford are big time programs, but generate no wear near the interest of say Arkansas or Alabama.. or even Clemson. Reason I picked SJSU as my example is because it's in the Silicon Valley, where lots of SJSU grads are Millionaires now. Imagine if one of these boosters/agent was able to work out a deal with the athlete individually and pay for his college while at the same time getting him a nice pay check.
I still don't see how you think the current system makes things more competitive. I do not see it. If anything, it drives away competition.
I understand where you're coming from with the Alum and SJSU may be a good example but I think if it happened it would be few and far between. Not enough to really make a difference in recruiting or general attractiveness.
What does being competitive mean to you?
What flawed logic? What I am saying cannot be expressed by a Logic Equation. That's the problem with most people, they try to make everything into a mathematical equation. 99% of things in real life does not have a concrete mathematical answer. Trust me, I know logic better than 99% of the Population. I have a Bachelors in Electrical Engineering, and if you know EE, it's 100% logic. Most people can't hang with EE because most people lack logic.
I am just saying that most Football Players do not play College Football to get the education. They go to play football in hopes of becoming bigger and better (few do).
I played football with guys who got Full D1 Athletic Scholarships, my team had 3 guys who got Scholarships to major D1 program. I also know guys who were tutors to College Athletes (who later became well established pros). Football players are not the normal students. I do not want to call anyone out, but there are reputable guys in the Pros now, who never studied a lick. They were given the answers to the test and they still failed... but yet still managed a B+ on the report card.
College Football Players were once REAL STUDENTS, that day was long ago.. these days, College Football players are nothing but RINGERS.
If you gave me a choice of "bailing that hay" or "getting the whip", I do not see that as much of a choice.
If you are a 4 Star High School Football Player, your only alternative is College Football. There is no choice, that is your only choice. It's like Bryce Harper, who dropped out of High School when he was a junior, play JC, so he can get drafted by a MLB team... and now he is a ultra millionaire.
For all sports except football, there are choices. For Football there is no choice.
Well that is your "Light Switch" definition of Slavery. If you stick with that Definition of Slavery, than College Football Players are not really slaves.
If you see things only as black and white, then you are not wrong.
However, I do not see Slavery (and most other things as well) as a light switch. I see Slavery more as a volume knob, that there are levels of Slavery.
This one here goes up to 11! ahahahahah
I agree, Slaves have to play by the rules ore get whipped. That's just how it is.
Eric, you're an educated man and you know that logic is not always broken down to a mathematical equation; there's more the logic than Boolean Logic to which you seem to be referring. Perhaps it's me and your analogy of the 10K rock is more of a fallacy.
I am with you 100%. Most college football players do not go to college to get an education. The obvious exceptions are those few schools who hold athletes to a higher academic standard than others, i.e. Cal, Stanford, USC, ND, to name a few. But let's not confuse desire vs. the opportunity. Opportunity exists whether or not it's taken advantage of.
Here is an example of why I agree with you completely on the above statement. I had a friend when I was in Jacksonville who was a UM (Miami) grad who always bragged about how great the school was and how great the football team was (this was back in the early 2000's). In the Jacksonville paper they were talking about this exact same subject and what caught my attention was the quote opening the article where a defensive lineman was quoted as saying "that's the way I was learned". The article pointed out that of the three main football schools in Florida (UF, FSU, UM) the football players had the following averages: GPA 2.2, SAT score 770. The highest average was UF for GPA (which was around the mid 2's if I remember) and the highest average SAT score was from UM and it was in the VERY low 800s. So I know exactly what you're talking about. It's a shame though that those valuable opportunities are wasted, especially by those who could benefit the most.
I long for the days where college athletes are students first. I know it's a pipe-dream but I'm not going to change.
I'm not black and white on everything, I take the subject matter and context into consideration. To me, slavery is a dark spot on human existence and to be thrown around nonchalantly is in poor taste. Now there are scenarios where a definition of slavery exists but giving a kid a legitimate opportunity for a free $250,000 education is no where near being tied up and whipped.
So when you get caught speeding and get a ticket does that mean you're getting whipped?
I agree with mike and cartman on some of the issues. I think players should get some kind of payment. If the NCAA could figure out a way to make it weekly allowance would be good. The problem would then become how to police it. Some players could receive a promise of more benifits than others creating bidding wars. What are your thoughts on that? I lived in athletic dorm at msu and I know from experience that a lot of the athletes have no car, money or any means of doing much. I didn't haveuch either but a lot more than some. But let's get back to the scholarship. It affords things to them that will long term benefit them when a lot of the guys couldn't qualify or afford college. So if the student athlete will do what he is supposed to do on and off the field he can be rewarded financially and intellectionally . The scholarship gives a lot of people a chance at success when the do what their supposed to do. It's a good dilemma for people to try to work out and be fair!
I do not believe in that Logical Fallacy guide book. I believe that book was created by Lawyers for Lawyers. To me, things either have a concrete mathematical proof, or they don't.
You can replace the "Pet Rock" with just about anything. An "Elvis Signature", an "old worn down inoperable M1-carbine with low serial number"... just because someone is willing to pay $100,000 for it, does not mean it's worth $100,000 to me or the Football Players.
I myself would not pay today's exorbitant amount to get a Engineering Degree with my OWN money. Back in my day, college was relatively cheap. However, I did not even have to pay back then, I got my College Education for "Free" thanks to the GI Bill, not only got my tuition and books paid for, but also had a little left over to finance a car and money for spring break. (though some may argue taking 4 year Active Duty Enlistment is NOT free).
Short answer is "yes". I should have bailed the hay instead.
A science mind, I love it. How do you explain scientific theories that do not have "proof"? But I digress...
Your "pet rock" example is misguided. I get that you don't feel there is a value to it at "X" price, but that doesn't take away from the fact it does have a value. Now a prospective student/athlete may not perceive or care about the value as well but the value is there based off of supply and demand. I don't believe gold is worth >$1000. oz but obviously it is to some people.
College tuition is sick and it pisses me off as I will soon be looking at options for my kids. I, like you, could not afford to pay for the school I attended but was fortunate to receive a full (athletic) scholarship. I chose to take advantage of the free education as I realized the importance of its necessity later in life.
You are correct, lots of Scientific Theories do NOT have proof. That is why they are called THEORIES and not PROOFS. Evolution might be true, but it is just a Theory. There is nothing that points out that Evolution is NOT true. All evidence points to Evolution being true, however, there is no concrete proof that evolution is 100% Truth, so therefore it is still just a PROOF.
As for higher education. Some degrees like my EE Degree is a dam good degree. However, they charge way too much money now. Then there is also the fact that they charge everyone the same for all classes and all degrees. I do not see paying $35k a year for a Business, Biology, Economics, or Basket Weaving Undergrad Degree as VALUE. If you see it as value, then I am fine with that too and I am not going to persuade you otherwise.
The Student Loan Debt is now at over 1 Trillion Dollars! People may not know this, but when Grants and Loans became more available the cost of Education Sky rocketed. If there were no student loans or grants, cost would have stayed low. I don't see cost decreasing unless people stop enrolling, and let the schools (at least some of them) go bankrupt.
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Yeah I wish for those days too. However, those days are long gone. Sooner or Later, we have to wake up and see reality for what it really is, bad or good... then again, probably better to just live the lie and stay dumb. Life is much more pleasant this way.
Don't need to give them anything other than rights.
A player should be allowed to transfer whenever he wants to, as many times as he wants to and not be punished for it. Why can a PAID coach, leave whenever he wants but a player has to sit out a year?
Why can't a player have "jobs" (even if they do not have to show up for said job)? If someone wants to pay him for his work, then he should be paid. Heck it's an American Right to get paid for sitting around doing nothing sometimes.
Why can't a player be allowed to seek his own endorsement deals while a coach can get all the Endorsement Deal he wants?
I know I know.. Rules are Rules! In the Crack Baby Athletic Association players do not have rights because that is what the RULES say.
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I'm sorry Eric but your entitlement attitude is way too over the top for me. You want athletes to have carte blanche without any responsibilities or rules to abide by. That's way out of line.
One has two choices, change the way things are or deal with it. Everyone bitched about how we needed a playoff system and to get rid of the BCS; it's finally here. Maybe eventually we will see a slacking or removal of rules regarding players in college. However as I've said before, I think it's a joke to have them go to college at all at that point. Just make a minor league system like baseball and call it a day. Remove football from college entirely or make them two entirely different sports with no interaction at all.
One has two choices, change the way things are or deal with it. Everyone bitched about how we needed a playoff system and to get rid of the BCS; it's finally here. Maybe eventually we will see a slacking or removal of rules regarding players in college. However as I've said before, I think it's a joke to have them go to college at all at that point. Just make a minor league system like baseball and call it a day. Remove football from college entirely or make them two entirely different sports with no interaction at all.
Entitlements? or rights?
College Football is not going away. It's probably the 3rd biggest and most popular Sport in the country, with only the NFL and MLB being higher. Big money is at stake and no one is going to let go of their piece of this huge pie.
College Football Players have stopped being students long ago. They are all RINGERS now, have been for a long time.
I am also OK with a player being a Slave and in lockdown, hey if that is how it is, that is how it is. I though would rather everyone be honest about it and just call them slaves. Maybe it would be best if we just close our eyes and live in make believe?
Cartman, you have some good points there. So let's talk about them in the big picture.. Marcus lattimore, for instance now would love for rules to be that way. Players are the guys that get crippled and hurt, so why not give them financial reward. I agree on that if somehow it wouldn't destroy college athletics, I believe it would. If they gave them free reign like your talking about it would be a circus. Back in the older days where commitment and loyalty meant something, some of the issues could have worked. I don't think so now. People are different and it's a ME world now so all they would look for is best deal. When a player is offered a scholarship their paper has all of the rules on them. When the coach gives scholarship he should be loyal to that player as long as he goes to class, gets his grades and does the right thing on and off the field . As long as the player gets treated fairly I think he owes the institution the same loyalty. If the player gets hurt , he should keep his scholarship. If he's not good enough to play, he should also be able to try elsewhere without being penalized . If players were just allowed to transfer at will it would truly become a circus. The rules have to be their for more reasons that I know. Every time a rule or law is made it takes away some freedom, that's the way it is like it or not. I see things this way, all the talk and crying about fixing football are mostly done by people that get their asses beat. They think their entitled to what everyone else is in this world. I think the people who prepare, work the hardest to be the best is what sports is all about. People not willing to work as hard and do the right things don't deserve what the other guy gets. People this day and time think their entitled to things and there not.thats a HUge problem with our country. I tell my kids all the time if your not going to outwork people , expect not to be first. Nick saban is successful because he's not going to be out worked. He has worked for and earned his success. Remember that all a winner is, that he's willing to do what the loser won't. I'm not smart enough to figure out all the right , fair thing to do and make it all work so I will just let the educated folks handle that.
Here is what sports is supposed to be about in my opinion.1. Develop character 2.create a healthy body 3. Develop mental toughness. 4. Develop people skills . 5. Learn how to fail. 6. Learn how to succeed. 7. Learn how to fight" scratch and claw". 8. Figure things out. 9. Have goals. 10. Hard work. 11. Patience. 12. Sacrifice. 13. Competitiveness. 14. Team work. That's what sports were made for in my opinion. I do athletic lessons for kids and I tell the parents if they can learn these things mentioned above, anything more would just be icing on the cake!
This will most likely be the last thing I'll say on it. Eric, it's been a decent conversation up to now but I'm not going to let you continue to bait me with terms like "slavery" and your entitlement attitude.
Yes, it's entitlement, it's not rights. You do not have the right to work. You do not have the right to do anything you want.
I agree with what you say about the money aspect along with everything else with that regards. Although it is rather sad.
I know we will never return to a true "student/athlete"; there's no question.
You are making a lot of assumptions. You sir sound like a Communist and Socialist. Lucky we have all these rules to keep us all inline.
that's all fine and dandy when you are 8 years old. However, I am talking about grown up 20 year olds who are still at it.. you know the guys trying to get to the next level and make big bucks?
When you have different rules for different people in the same game (rules of coaches vs. rules of players), I do not see it as entitlement. Why not make the coaches play by the same rules? Why not give coaches Scholarships, and make them sit out a year before transferring?
College Football is not really a noble venture anymore. Things change with the times. College Football is a Huge Business. It is not a noble venture like it once was where students play each other in after school activities. As with any business, the people at the top want to KEEP the income they have coming in. They do not want to share the wealth.
How do they keep the wealth as well as getting richer? They keep the slaves in check, you know, the people that work for pennies on the dollar. Some people think that if the Schools provide housing and tuition money to these "students", they are taking care of these "students", these "poor inner city kids". I do not see it that way. They way I see it, these Ringers.. I mean these "students", ARE TAKING CARE OF THE SCHOOLS!
Mike, thanks for holding back on the Personal Attacks for once. I know it's very hard for you to attack the subject and NOT the person. LOL HAHAAHHAAHAHAH
I also do not blame you for bailing out of this conversation. Life sucks when we find out the truth. So much better just to live in our own closed in sheltered world. Finding out about the real world is tough! So again, I do not blame you for bailing out.
I also do not blame you for bailing out of this conversation. Life sucks when we find out the truth. So much better just to live in our own closed in sheltered world. Finding out about the real world is tough! So again, I do not blame you for bailing out.
Eric,
Do you find any irony that we're talking about something I have personal experience with and you don't yet I'm the one in the "wrong"?
And for the record I'm bailing because I'm not going to stand for your ridiculous hyperbole. I know the point you're trying to make but I feel you're off the mark about many aspects. We are not going to change either others mind so we've come to an impasse.
You sir have now showed your level of ignorance which will be forever remembered! It's like that old saying" you can't fix stupid" ! Not that unusual for most of the Engineers I know, and I know quite a few! See ya lefftist!
Yea mike, he never answered my questions about his personal experiences, yep"mother in law"!
