IMR 8208 XBR AND 77gr SMK IN A GAS GUN

[flogxal]

There is a difference between a lazy, entitled attitude (even one dressed up in many pararagaphs of text) and showing that you are at wit's end with a problem you've taken time to review, consider and research.

The internet has a lot of Spoiled Child attitude everywhere you look. Not great to defend Spoiled Children, it makes you one of them. Just speaking for myself, I do not have any obligation whatever to tell a Spoiled Child what I know. Not one.

One of the things that distinguishes this forum from many other rifle/firearm/shooting forums is the lack of Spoiled Child heaviness in the commentary. In contrast, places like technomodern rokkkkslyyyyde or barfcom fifteen, they are larded with redditor Spoiled Children. I'd like to see this forum stay as it is.

 

[Edsel]

He could be looking for 5.56 pressure and charges as opposed to the .223 pressures that are in the book. He could be making sure he’s not going to blow up his gun or go blind reloading.

Just ignore them.

They’re narcissistic little bloviators - that’s all there is to it.

Not so much .223 vs. 5.56mm NATO, though…

It’s just that all of the quoted charge weights for Mk262 clones are easily in excess of most (if not all) powder manufacturer recommendations, even QuickLOAD’s simulations.

That was the question I was posing.

It does make me wonder if “Mk262 brass” should be relegated to bolt gun use after perhaps three gas gun firings.

And this is Sniper’s Hide, after all - which for some reason has been awash with petty little cunts compared to the pre - 2014 era. If you’d look into many of the questions posted by other folks, the answers frequently demonstrate so much tangentiality to the question posted and are so bereft of basic reading comprehension, that it makes you wonder if we’re really still in America.

 

[alamo5000]

He could be looking for 5.56 pressure and charges as opposed to the .223 pressures that are in the book. He could be making sure he’s not going to blow up his gun or go blind reloading. He is asking questions and that’s the important part. It’s irritating seeing someone be a snob when dude is obviously doing his homework. Everybody doesn’t have the same level of knowledge as you. Share what you know or don’t.

Point taken, however it's not being a snob at all. My point wasn't just to be an ass either. My point was that there is a full on 15 part documentary with over 8 or more hours specifically of loading that one bullet in 223 and 5.56 configurations. If I'm not mistaken he used over 20 different types of powder, and tested them all. And it was created by a guy with however many decades of reloading experience. And it's all free.

In those videos there was literally not a single stone that wasn't turned over in the quest for the best possible solution.

At present there still isn't any other better or more comprehensive publicly available resource out there on that specific topic. Literally hours of distilled data including real world results and testing all laid out and produced nicely all using a single bullet type that covers pretty much everything.

Those 8 hours of videos took months or even years to compile and cost who knows how much money just in components alone.

 

[Edsel]

And yet, that series of videos shows nothing beyond flattened primer pockets and rims, correct?

Which are artifactually misleading in numerous examples of perfectly fine, once - fired Federal and Hornady cases, right?

Not once did he mention getting signs of incipient case head separation by paperclip test on say, the third firing.

Or ANYTHING concretely addressing potential safety concerns down the line, right?

So why should one care about videos that do not even address the original question?

 

[Edsel]

It’s irritating seeing someone be a snob…

You know you have a petty little cunt posting when the first thing they mention is the very patronizing “…have you looked up a reloading manual?”

The funny thing is, the most helpful post on safety in this thread comes from the anecdote that mentioned 23.6 grains of IMR 8208 XBR under a 77 grain SMK can loosen Lapua and Lake City brass primer pockets in bolt guns.

 

[alamo5000]

And yet, thst series of videos show nothing beyond flattened primer pockets and rims, correct?

Which are artifactually misleading in numerous examples of perfectly fine, once - fired Federal and Hornady cases, right?

Not once did he mention getting signs of incipient case head separation by paperclip test on the third firing.

Or ANYTHING concretely addressing potential safety concerns down the line, right?

Again, not setting out to be an asshole about anything, but data from a forum, video series, or even a manufacturer can only get anyone so far.

At a certain point testing has to be done by the individual. Not all rifles are the same, not all brass or chambers are the same, and not all environments are the same.

I can't speak for anyone else but myself, but to me it definitely didn't come across as a reasoned out question especially after a number of replies including mine. No one knows each other's skill or experience level, but a series like that can get most people 90% of the way there. The other 10% has to be done by the individual. To me it came across as though as these very specific resources were just ignored.

At a certain point people are going to get frustrated or just quit helping, and it gets more frustrating when it doesn't at least appear that whoever it is has done their part.

100% of my post was that, and that alone.

 

[Edsel]

At a certain point people are going to get frustrated or just quit helping, and it gets more frustrating when it doesn't at least appear that whoever it is has done their part.

Then don’t post if it bothers you so much.

Go hump a post or something if you wish, just take your self - righteous indignation elsewhere.

Simple.

 

[amcclintock]

Point taken, however it's not being a snob at all. My point wasn't just to be an ass either. My point was that there is a full on 15 part documentary with over 8 or more hours specifically of loading that one bullet in 223 and 5.56 configurations. If I'm not mistaken he used over 20 different types of powder, and tested them all. And it was created by a guy with however many decades of reloading experience. And it's all free.

In those videos there was literally not a single stone that wasn't turned over in the quest for the best possible solution.

At present there still isn't any other better or more comprehensive publicly available resource out there on that specific topic. Literally hours of distilled data including real world results and testing all laid out and produced nicely all using a single bullet type that covers pretty much everything.

Those 8 hours of videos took months or even years to compile and cost who knows how much money just in components alone.

And I myself watch and revisit that series of videos often. Especially when I started loading last year. It is a wealth of information I agree. I would love to see an updated version as well. The reason I say that is because some components have advanced in the last few years. Barrels are getting better because shooters are asking for more speed, ability to load hotter etc. I also listen to a lot of Erik Cortina’s videos that are 4 years old and some of what he says can’t be contradictory in a sense to what Johnny showed us lol. But I come here bc were like minded and we are a community. We have to always lift each other up. Help each other learn. Point in the right direction. …
Not getting too long winded. What I noticed about mk262 is that it’s hot. Even though I’ve not seen any speeds really over 2750 with an 18” SPR I have seen pressure signs on the cases which was kind of a shocker but hey it is what it is. I’ve loaded stuff “cloning the load” that I thought was pretty hot and had zero pressure signs. Going by what Johnny shows us. I’d stop with the testing I’ve done. Listening to Erik Cortina’s interview with Lou Murdica there may be a little more room for experimentation and testing…..

 

[Edsel]

The reason I say that is because some components have advanced in the last few years.

Not just that.

Consistency in components deviates a lot, too.

For instance, on the Brian Enos forum, 6 grains of Alliant’s Power Pistol under a 9mm HAP (measures .356”) was considered an established, accurate load.

While my metal pistols could handle it, my Glock 17L’s frame would flex excessively and the trigger pin would walk out while firing that load! In both plastic and metal pistols, I could feel that I was in +P+ territory even using the more typical, looser .355” bullets…

It was way too hot, even down to 5.7 grains.

So even those videos need to be taken with a grain of salt.

 

[alamo5000]

Then don’t post if it bothers you so much.

Simple.

It's not because questions bother me. Not at all.

It's the "someone should be helpful and Google that for me" type of mindset that turns people off. In this case assistance was offered in the way of providing specific reference material from a somewhat reputable source.

As others have pointed out as well, this is how it came across. That to me is where people including me were getting rubbed the wrong way.

As for now, this is beating a dead horse and is overdue to fade away.

 

[Edsel]

It's the "someone should be helpful and Google that for me" type of mindset that turns people off.

So it’s your prejudice, and your own self - image of exceptionalism, that led to your snarky little outburst.

As for now, this is beating a dead horse and is overdue to fade away.

Go and provide “reputable sources” that do not address the actual question elsewhere, how about it?

If you’re not really helping, just leave.

Go elsewhere.

 

[sinister]

The issue I have with the Johnny's Reloading Bench video series is his failing to mention particulars of his White Oak Precision barrel. He mentions it has a 1-8 twist but not whether or not it has a target, Wylde, or military 5.56mm throat.

Mil-spec GI guns like the M4 and USAMU-built custom SPR or match barrels will have (longer) 5.56mm NATO throats and leades.

SAAMI or commercial match and Wylde leades are shorter -- which can contribute to higher pressure as minimal freebore jump or bullets kissing or jammed into the leades raise or spike chamber pressure, contributing to flattened or pierced primers.

Again -- the military specifies and Black Hills uses crimped primer pockets -- something civil handloaders don't know, forget, or disregard.

A bolt gun with a longer barrel will also hold pressure longer than a 77 un-corking from a 14.5, 16, or 18-inch tube, even with a suppressor.