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Isssues with Superior Tactical Solutions

MichaelCox said:
1. The BBB is complete and total bullsh!t, I've been in business for close to 20 years in one way or another and when I was younger I thought (like many people do) that the BBB was actually there to help protect the consumer. IN reality the business pays a fee to the BBB to be a member. Now how can an organization take my money and also claim to protect the consumer when I'm the one paying them? (NO. I've never had a complaint filled against me with them.)
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The BBB exists to arbitrate disputes, between consumers and businesses. To that end, they attempt to inform consumers of predatory businesses and practices. Consumers may use their arbitration services, for free. Business may not, unless they are members. That's really it.
 
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I didn't read the whole thread so sorry if I'm repeating someone else.
It may not be worth it to get a lawyer, especially if the other side is willing to go the distance. I've seen parties pay six figures fighting over $10,000. If you have deep pockets and want to punish your opponent the process -- and its costs -- are often punishing.
Did you try the local bar association of the biggest nearby city? Ask them for a referral for the situation you're in. Many lawyers will give you a free consultation to help figure out if they can help you and what it might cost. The longer the other side fights the more it is going to cost.
I looks like the KY District Court system is where cases under $5,000, and small claims cases under $2,500 can be brought. This may or may not be helpful: http://courts.ky.gov/courts/Pages/DistrictCourt.aspx Check resources/legal forms too. I'm not sure if that's enough to get you your money and your property. But you can represent yourself in small claims. How much will it cost you to appear there? Then again, you can probably represent yourself in pro per in a regular case too. Probably not a good idea if the other side gets a lawyer. Did you pay with credit card? Did you dispute charges yet? I'm not licensed in Kentucky and I'm not your lawyer. I'm just some guy on the internet thinking out loud. Seek legal counsel to get legal advice.

And thank you for reminding me why I never trust vendors who respond to my email questions with "why don't you just call me and we can talk about it..." ALWAYS GET ANYTHING INVOLVING MONEY YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO LOSE IN WRITING!

Good luck to you and whether or not any of this is true there are plenty of other smiths out there to put myself in a position to have to worry about this one.

Edit: Does the ATF, in issuing FFLs, have any sort of anti-fraud/left department you can complain to?
 
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Well here's the latest:
I'm on my 3rd attorney due to the fact that I was living in Florida, the dispute is in Kentucky and I have since moved to VA.
Due to the total amount in dispute.. a bit north of $13,500 this will have to go to circuit court.
The BBB offered to arbitrate the case, which I agreed to. Unfortunately STS refused. I think they are well aware as I that any reasonable individual or panel will side with me and do not want to risk putting it in their hands. I have all of the documentation ready and prepared from the initial email to the refusal to ship.
I understand where many of you are coming from in that that legal litigation could be very costly and it's something I have tried to avoid.
Even if i dispute he credit card payments with my banks it won't get me the equipment back, which is where the majority of everything is tied up. It has been $3,945 is payments and nearly $10,000 in the scope, chassis and related equipment that I sent to STS to complete the system.
I'm quite sure that, as many have said, that STS used my deposit to pay off other builds. Then didn't have the capital to order my action and complete the build. Delays are completely understandable, especially when parts are sourced by the smith but to deceive the customer is not tolerable.
I did agree to settle to the terms that STS outlined in order to recover my rifle and equipment, they still refused to ship. I didn't post this thread until after they revoked the release agreement, then after it was sent a second time by their attorney, I signed it ad agreed to not further discuss the issue as long as the equipment was shipped. They refused to ship, even after the agreement was signed, it was after that point that I updated the thread to reflect the on going issue.
It's still an ongoing battle, and will continue for sometime. I've very much learned that whatever Mr. Turner says can not be trusted and STS will do whatever they can to delay and postpone.
As the matter moves forward I will update. I hope that this has shed some light on some shady business practices. Thanks to all for the support and welcomed advice and comments
 
strike33 said:
Well here's the latest:
I'm on my 3rd attorney due to the fact that I was living in Florida, the dispute is in Kentucky and I have since moved to VA.
Due to the total amount in dispute.. a bit north of $13,500 this will have to go to circuit court.
The BBB offered to arbitrate the case, which I agreed to. Unfortunately STS refused. I think they are well aware as I that any reasonable individual or panel will side with me and do not want to risk putting it in their hands. I have all of the documentation ready and prepared from the initial email to the refusal to ship.
I understand where many of you are coming from in that that legal litigation could be very costly and it's something I have tried to avoid.
Even if i dispute he credit card payments with my banks it won't get me the equipment back, which is where the majority of everything is tied up. It has been $3,945 is payments and nearly $10,000 in the scope, chassis and related equipment that I sent to STS to complete the system.
I'm quite sure that, as many have said, that STS used my deposit to pay off other builds. Then didn't have the capital to order my action and complete the build. Delays are completely understandable, especially when parts are sourced by the smith but to deceive the customer is not tolerable.
I did agree to settle to the terms that STS outlined in order to recover my rifle and equipment, they still refused to ship. I didn't post this thread until after they revoked the release agreement, then after it was sent a second time by their attorney, I signed it ad agreed to not further discuss the issue as long as the equipment was shipped. They refused to ship, even after the agreement was signed, it was after that point that I updated the thread to reflect the on going issue.
It's still an ongoing battle, and will continue for sometime. I've very much learned that whatever Mr. Turner says can not be trusted and STS will do whatever they can to delay and postpone.
As the matter moves forward I will update. I hope that this has shed some light on some shady business practices. Thanks to all for the support and welcomed advice and comments
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:-( I have read through this entire post. I'm sorry that someone has taken from you. I'm surprised how level-headed you appear to be on the boards. Good luck.
 
strike33 said:
Well here's the latest:
I'm on my 3rd attorney due to the fact that I was living in Florida, the dispute is in Kentucky and I have since moved to VA.
Due to the total amount in dispute.. a bit north of $13,500 this will have to go to circuit court.
The BBB offered to arbitrate the case, which I agreed to. Unfortunately STS refused. I think they are well aware as I that any reasonable individual or panel will side with me and do not want to risk putting it in their hands. I have all of the documentation ready and prepared from the initial email to the refusal to ship.
I understand where many of you are coming from in that that legal litigation could be very costly and it's something I have tried to avoid.
Even if i dispute he credit card payments with my banks it won't get me the equipment back, which is where the majority of everything is tied up. It has been $3,945 is payments and nearly $10,000 in the scope, chassis and related equipment that I sent to STS to complete the system.
I'm quite sure that, as many have said, that STS used my deposit to pay off other builds. Then didn't have the capital to order my action and complete the build. Delays are completely understandable, especially when parts are sourced by the smith but to deceive the customer is not tolerable.
I did agree to settle to the terms that STS outlined in order to recover my rifle and equipment, they still refused to ship. I didn't post this thread until after they revoked the release agreement, then after it was sent a second time by their attorney, I signed it ad agreed to not further discuss the issue as long as the equipment was shipped. They refused to ship, even after the agreement was signed, it was after that point that I updated the thread to reflect the on going issue.
It's still an ongoing battle, and will continue for sometime. I've very much learned that whatever Mr. Turner says can not be trusted and STS will do whatever they can to delay and postpone.
As the matter moves forward I will update. I hope that this has shed some light on some shady business practices. Thanks to all for the support and welcomed advice and comments
Click to expand...

I still would've gone the criminal proceedings route, considering he's stolen a gun, essentially but, bravo to you, keeping your shit together.

I think we should go as far as stickying this, so many bad experiences, this asshole should straight up be blacklisted just based on his business ethics.
 
I'm working with my attorney and the Kentucky State Attorney's office in regards to a criminal complaint, the problem I'm running into is that because its an ongoing civil matter, law enforcement doesn't want to get involved. At the very least I would like them prosecuted for fraud. As they advertised and guaranteed a particular product and service, that I paid for and then failed to deliver in both respects.
Thanks again gents
 
It would be great if this were a sticky; one positive spin-off of this ordeal could be that no Hide member or visitor ever gave this a$$hole another dime.

Joe
 
scudzuki said:
It would be great if this were a sticky; one positive spin-off of this ordeal could be that no Hide member or visitor ever gave this a$$hole another dime.

Joe
Click to expand...
And even better if he specifically knew this was why none of us will ever give him a dime. Who knows? That might--might--actually change his behavior.

Yours,

David
 
Very sorry to hear about this and thank you for being prepared to get the word out. It sounds like you have a really good case and you might be able to find a lawyer willing to work on contingency (they work for a % of the winnings) and save yourself some money. It shouldn't matter how good a lawyer he has, he was contracted to provide a service and did not provide service as advertised. However I'm unfamiliar with U.S small claims courts (in Canada this guy would get his pants sued off). Best of luck, keep us updated.
 
Thanks,
Their new attorney is being just as much of an ass as the rest. They stated that they would have the new offer/paperwork to my attorney by last friday, the 29th. Right now they seem to be hiding. I believe that all the attorneys that STS has tried to retain have basically told them that they have no legal foundation. Right now its just a waiting game. Its been tough trying to keep calm, especially the last few months but in the end justice will be done. I'm glad that the thread has been kept alive to help warn others of potential problems and fraud.
Again, thanks for all the support
 
Strike, keep your head up! Every time I check updates on this it seems weirder and weirder. This stuff is expensive and I can't even imagine someone keeping my stuff! I hope it all works out!
 
forgive me for sounding curt, its not meant as such: But, at what point do you drop the Civil crap that might barely get you back your investment money, and go for him after the theft of your property?? The guy has stolen YOUR goods, and when it goes into criminal court, you're not the one paying for the lawyer anymore.

I do feel for ya, had that happen on a trailer I needed re-done: that f*cktard kept blaming the russian mafia for everything. ;P I lost 2/3 of the money I paid him. In hindsight, Id have skipped the closure, and called the cops when he said I wasn't getting the stuff I paid for.
 
What he's hoping for is to draw things out until you can no longer afford to pay for an attorney. Starve you out, so to speak. It's one of the bullshit loopholes of the legal system. Is your attorney hourly or on contingency? It's something oil companies up here do all the time to avoid lawsuits.
 
Thanks guys,
I did contact the Sheriff's Department in Henderson, they sent a deputy out there to ensure that the rifle was still in his possession but because the issue is with the lawyers they don't want to get involved. I did contact the state Attorney's office but I haven't received a response.
Now that my PCS move is over I'm in a stronger position to just take some leave, drive out there and make a face to face with the Sheriff.
The ATF wants a police report from the State/Local LEO's before proceeding.
I've been fortune enough with my attorney's that I haven't have to pay for any services, although when/if it goes to court i'm sure that will be a different story
 
are you still in service? Are you using a JAG or civilian lawyer? I don't know because I've never had to use a JAG but I would think this could be in their realm of expertise outside of DUI's and Assults
 
Unless things have changed a lot, JAG's cannot act as SM lawyers for civil matters.
 
Hey guys,
For those that were tracking this whole dramatic crap shoot:
STS hired a new a new attorney that provided my lawyer with a notice that said he would be reviewing the case. My lawyer in KY made contact and STS's attorney stated taht he would have a letter out to my attorney by Mar 29 stating the position of STS and any further offers. Well its now mid May. I started calling the attorny several weeks ago and after 3 weeks, 4 phone calls and email i finally received a message from the attorney's receptionist: " We are still waiting on information from our client". Seems like Mr. Turner and STS are determined to keep dragging this issue out.
The good new is that I have some use or lose leave and may just find myself at the Henderson County Sheriff's office to file a new complaint in person.
If anything else develops I'll put it out.
 
Man, that is some rough shit. I'm reading a lot lately about issues with gunsmiths coming from a shortage of parts, or mismanagement of funds, and just general logistical fuckassery.

I think I ought to go into business with a good gunsmith. Some skill, some equipment, my pieces of paper with fancy lettering... We could Six Sigma our way to an awesome gun business!

Really though, it seems some of the places that are less than successful are missing the business side of the business. Resource management and customer relations, etc...
 
sentry1 said:
Man, that is some rough shit. I'm reading a lot lately about issues with gunsmiths coming from a shortage of parts, or mismanagement of funds, and just general logistical fuckassery.

I think I ought to go into business with a good gunsmith. Some skill, some equipment, my pieces of paper with fancy lettering... We could Six Sigma our way to an awesome gun business!

Really though, it seems some of the places that are less than successful are missing the business side of the business. Resource management and customer relations, etc...
Click to expand...

"Fuckassery"... my new favorite term. thanks much
 
Strike - keep up the good fight!
For what it's worth - While I am out on medical I have some free time. If I can help you out with anything, case research or such, please let me know I would be glad to help.

hopefully, Mr Turd-er will be dealing with criminal charges while he gets a nice dose of karma hit and run. That guy is a serious DICK!
 
Tahoe333 said:
Strike - keep up the good fight!
For what it's worth - While I am out on medical I have some free time. If I can help you out with anything, case research or such, please let me know I would be glad to help.

hopefully, Mr Turd-er will be dealing with criminal charges while he gets a nice dose of karma hit and run. That guy is a serious DICK!
Click to expand...

Tahoe...thanks for the offer. I'm quite sure this "wonderful" guy will get what's rightly deserved in the end. The battle rages on.
Hope you make a speedy recovery from you medical absence. Best of luck friend
 
These threads are extremely valuable to us all as a group. Good thing this POS is not a site advertiser or the thread would have been locked after the OP.

Sucks you have to use leave for BS like this, good luck.
 
Well I gave this guy and his attorney every possible chance to make things right...with no response.
The ATF and the State Attorney (again) have been notified.
Hopefully I get some good news back. I'll let you guys know

stay safe
 
Keep up the fight buddy.This guy is just trying to take the wind out of your sails and get you to give up.
For me it would be out of spite by now to get this guy
Not that you knew at the time, but you should have went the ATF/LEO route first,then turn around and hammer at him with an attorney/civil suit.
Stay in there,Sooner or later Karma will get Mr.Turd-er,What goes around comes around.
 
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Im really interested in hearing what the local LEO and ATF do to help you.
Sounds like this guy deserves some jail time for fraud by deception.

Have your lawyer send in a letter stating a time frame you want a decision by or you will seek to go to criminal court.
 
State Attorney General and the State Police are looking into it now. Still waiting to hear back from the ATF. Hopefully they weren't all furlouhed.
I'll let you guys know it progresses
 
The Henderson post of the KY State Police are starting a case. May not be much they can do but were very helpful. Thanks to the Troopers for their help.
 
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Well it's been another 3 months since STS's attorney said he would have a resolution to me. He still refuses to return my calls and emails. Seems like there must be something in the water out there in Henderson that disables the mind and common courtesy/ respect of individuals. Still hoping that this can get resolved soon.
Gratefully the rifle i have at PCR is nearing completion. Huge thanks to Brad and Keith for keeping me sane
 
You are way too patient.do you ever intend on making a trip up there to get this resolved once and for all? I can get you some standby tickets with US airways to get you up there...
 
That's a generous offer. Getting away from work is real issue. When I talked with the State Police I asked if they would send an officer with me to collect should the need be and the were more than happy to help. The real problem is I don't want to spend the time and money to make the trip only to get bogged down with more legal obstacles. I gave the warno to my supervisors and they are aware that a trip in looming on the horizon.
I will pick it up in person, I don't trust this guy with sending me ALL of the parts and equipment that I have sent.
 
I am helping by getting the word out. I posted this forum link on Facebook!!
 
Thanks!
My big concern now is that he has had all my equipment for so long that it is either missing or being abused. The Sheriff's office confirmed that the rifle is still there but there so many other accessories that I have no visibility on.
It's sad that STS along with some of the other notorious companies that are known here, continue to pull these types of nonsense.
Continued thanks to you guys for being a sounding board
 
It makes me damn glad I deal with APA. Jered as are a lot of other gunsmiths is a very stand up guy, and I am thankful for knowing him. Good luck with all this shit...
 
Yes thankfully there are so extremely profession and courteous builders out there. I have had some personal messages from a number of them regarding this whole thing and the support has been great. Now if I could only get the year and half back as well as my $13,500 I could get a few other builds with these gentlemen
 
I am continually impressed by your restraint.
If I were out that kind of $$$ I'd have probably taken a road trip and done something legally unadvisable by now.

I really hope you get most or all of your money back and the @sshole(s) responsible get what's coming to them.

Joe
 
It's been tough, but I'm not going to risk my clearance over someone like this, just not worth it (well not at this point). The first weeks weeks then months were bad, at this point I'm expecting the bullshit so I've settled in for the long haul. Luckily my new stick should be done in the next few weeks and I can start putting rounds down range again.
Fear not though..a road trip is in the works
 
strike33 said:
It's been tough, but I'm not going to risk my clearance over someone like this, just not worth it (well not at this point). The first weeks weeks then months were bad, at this point I'm expecting the bullshit so I've settled in for the long haul. Luckily my new stick should be done in the next few weeks and I can start putting rounds down range again.
Fear not though..a road trip is in the works
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Be sure to post pics of your pcr build! They did a rebarrel/ cerakote job on my savage and i was quite happy. I'm shortly behind you on a full 338 build with them.
 
Tag. It seems Mssrs Turner and Rooney (Tactical Rifles) have sipped from the same well.
 
MosesTheTank said:
Tag. It seems Mssrs Turner and Rooney (Tactical Rifles) have sipped from the same well.
Click to expand...

Throw George Lieghty from Aztec in there as well. I hear some of the guys that bought in to the 2009 SH build are STILL WAITING on their guns.
I had to threaten him with legal action in my state which would have caused him to travel to defend himself. Then when we questioned him at SHOT Show, he literally ran off.

It's sad to see these guys doing this now. I guess we are lucky to have placed like GA Precision, Short Action Customs, APA, Black Ops, etc to take care of us.
 
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