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Jack Hinson

So I don't even know where to begin on this rifle... first, been driving since 4am... and in the worst place in the world.. Boston, Cape Cod, I95, Worcester... god I hate traffic and people right about now. But home safe.

More thoughts on rifle tomorrow, but it is beyond spectacular. I am not sure if I can do a video of the wood, but it is so deep and multi-dimensional... it's on fire when you see it. And, yes, it was done with Aqua Velva or whatever that stuff is. I didn't have a lot of time with Ed today, but he showed me how its done. So cool!

F70D86B8-8D84-41A7-96EC-FC7A1162C721.jpeg


Very faithful replica... cheekpiece is just right. Lock with extra holes from converted flintlock.
AC7594FA-5C1C-45B8-BA4E-6B62CADBC720.jpeg


While it all looks very plain in rust brown and cast iron fittings, little details just pop out everywhere... Lines that you see for the first time. The long toe plate that is actually screwed to the buttplate for strength. And that maple...
695643A7-E2F6-4C19-9876-DD9CDD2855F8.jpeg


The nosecap is missing from the original and family lore said it was German Silver. Ed thinks it may have been pewter. Or iron. But we did this one in German silver.
B58554F6-C527-45AA-85ED-198B71A7BE47.jpeg


More pictures tomorrow when I am not buzzing from several hundred miles. But wow.

Mold is in development... I did get a barrel slug before I left Ed's!!!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
Yes... in the morning. When I am coherent!

Sirhr
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The way my eyes are anymore, I can't seem to use those that are on the barrel. I have a Pedersoli Frontier rifle in flintlock and .45 caliber.

It shoots nice but I didn't like the sights.

So I replaced the front one with a brass blade. I installed the Pedersoli peep sight on the tang. Hopefully it looks period correct. Regardless, I can see the sights better but still need to get it zeroed in.

I've taken a lot of deer with my Whitworth, 44 magnum revolver and a couple with archery tackle but never a flintlock.

I'm resisting the urge to get a Pedersoli Frontier rifle in .36 or .32 caliber for squirrel. Someone talk me out of it.

I must retire to have more play time with toys.
 
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Longshot231 said:
The way my eyes are anymore, I can't seem to use those that are on the barrel. I have a Pedersoli Frontier rifle in flintlock and .45 caliber.

It shoots nice but I didn't like the sights.

So I replaced the front one with a brass blade. I installed the Pedersoli peep sight on the tang. Hopefully it looks period correct. Regardless, I can see the sights better but still need to get it zeroed in.

I've taken a lot of deer with my Whitworth, 44 magnum revolver and a couple with archery tackle but never a flintlock.

I'm resisting the urge to get a Pedersoli Frontier rifle in .36 or .32 caliber for squirrel. Someone talk me out of it.

I must retire to have more play time with toys.
Click to expand...
32 and 36 caliber muzzleloaders are fun. Get both!!
 
Longshot231 said:
The way my eyes are anymore, I can't seem to use those that are on the barrel. I have a Pedersoli Frontier rifle in flintlock and .45 caliber.

It shoots nice but I didn't like the sights.

So I replaced the front one with a brass blade. I installed the Pedersoli peep sight on the tang. Hopefully it looks period correct. Regardless, I can see the sights better but still need to get it zeroed in.

I've taken a lot of deer with my Whitworth, 44 magnum revolver and a couple with archery tackle but never a flintlock.

I'm resisting the urge to get a Pedersoli Frontier rifle in .36 or .32 caliber for squirrel. Someone talk me out of it.

I must retire to have more play time with toys.
Click to expand...
I have a great little Italian .32 squirrel rifle that I used for Primitive biathlon. While everyone else was running around with .54 Hawkens, me and my little peashooter could always make the steel ping. You only had to hit it... you didn't have to uproot it.

All was well and good until I snapped off my wood ramrod on a reload and put it through my hand. That smarted.

New ramrod is brass... painted to look like wood ;-)

Those little .32's are cheap, accurate and fun to shoot. Buy one!

Sirhr
 
Bigfatcock said:
32 and 36 caliber muzzleloaders are fun. Get both!!
Click to expand...

sirhrmechanic said:
I have a great little Italian .32 squirrel rifle that I used for Primitive biathlon. While everyone else was running around with .54 Hawkens, me and my little peashooter could always make the steel ping. You only had to hit it... you didn't have to uproot it.

All was well and good until I snapped off my wood ramrod on a reload and put it through my hand. That smarted.

New ramrod is brass... painted to look like wood ;-)

Those little .32's are cheap, accurate and fun to shoot. Buy one!

Sirhr
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You guys are not helping me. I still need to put a couple of my newly acquired AirForce air rifles to use on tree rats this fall.
 
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Rear sight... is a 'modern' rear sight until we can get a round/load/etc. dialed in.

From the pictures of the original, the rear and front sight were both VERY low. But theoretically with a big .50 long range rifle, one would virtually want a ladder sight. The 'temporary' compromise was to put on a tall rear and a modern front to dial in a load. Then make a new set of 'fixed' sights that give us the zero we want.

There is a lot of apocrypha on the Interwebs about folks saying 'no way could Hinson have made those shots... his cave was too far from the river to make those shots... it's all made up... blah blah blah.'

The reality (and this is referenced in Kenney's book) his shots were 300 - 600 yards and either static or very slow moving targets. He did not shoot from his 'grotto' high up on the banks... no sniper would shoot from their campsite or base. They move to a hide close to their target and withdraw to their living area. And 300 - 600 yards is not an unreasonable distance for a supported rifle with the right bullet and load. Whitworths were shooting a lot further than that.

Family lore and research indicates that Hinson made one shot 'across the Cumberland' which at the time would have been about 1000 yards. This was not the norm, however. Supposedly, a set of three interlocking rings stamped on the rifle was to 'record' his long shot. But I don't know if this is family lore or documented. I suspect the former. Not that the shot is impossible. It is certainly not impossible!

The sights on the original (see below) were much shorter. So my belief at this point is that Hinson was using holdovers and understood how much his bullet would drop. He was reputed to be an expert shot. And as he was planning his 'revenge' for a while. I suspect he did a lot of shooting to figure out how much holdover he needed at longer ranges. He was also shooting down-hill at the river most of the time. So would have had to understand how to compensate for that.

1629297610588.png


Anyway... the Mk 1 sights are for dialing in. Then we'll start putting together a plan for a final set of sights.

FYI, here are sights on the original. Front sight very low German silver blade. Rear buckhorn.

hinson rifle 9.jpg


Note the punches Hinson used to record his targets.

hinson rifle 9f.jpg


There was never a ladder sight on the original or any evidence of any sight other than this fixed one. He must have been using a holdover!

Last, note that the original also had a spectacular piece of wood... The furniture may have been plain, but the original rifle was done to a very high standard.

hinson rifle left side.jpg


Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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Very nice Sir, glad you got this done, it is beautiful. I will be waiting for a range report. :)
 
sirhrmechanic said:
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The internet is bad for me. When I was younger, I'd stand by the mailbox waiting for the Cabela's and Brownell's catalogs to arrive then spend every spare minute circling the goodies that I wanted.

Now I'm clicking the darn "buy" button to darn often.

I picked up a used Pedersoli Indian Trade gun and haven't had a chance to shoot it.

You mentioned Whitworth shooting in one of your posts. I have a P-H Whitworth and with the right bullet & powder combination it will do everything they say it will do.

I almost bought a replica Davison scope that Navy Arms marketed for a short time but didn't like the way it was mounted to the stock. They didn't have a provision for the screw to go through the stock like the original.

Anyway, the furthest that I've shot the Whitworth has been 600 yards. I definitely use the ladder sights for that. However, I've taken a lot of deer with it.

Do you have any idea of the distance that he sighted his rifle at?
 
Longshot231 said:
IDo you have any idea of the distance that he sighted his rifle at?
Click to expand...
Not a clue. That’s why I built one! Experimental history at its best!!!

my bet is something like 200. Only because that’s what I’d do.

He was one of us, really. So we should do what we would do. This is why PhD’s from Harvard can’t figure out shit.

Sirhr
 
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Do you know how tall the rear sight was on the original? Do you have any close ups of the sights on the original?
 
I am at the part of the book where Jack Hinson has picked off the officers on the boats passing by Hurricane Creek. It's kind of difficult to tell by the map in the book but what was the range from his firing point to the boat's location in Towhead chute?

I tried to locate the spot on Googlemaps but no luck.

The one part of the book that the author writes about loading a minie ball with a patch is curious. Was he referring to a paper-jacketed minie ball?

That was not unheard of as the Pritchard round is basically a paper-jacketed round. On the other hand, could he be referring to a conical bullet with a flat base that had the crossed strips of paper for a jacket? Or a bullet with a wrapped paper jacket?

The author also says the Jack loaded 100 grains of powder in the barrel. Unless he had a special mold which would cast a minie ball with thick skirts, he stood a chance of blowing the skirt out and ruining the accuracy.

On the other hand, if he used a flat based conical with crossed strips of paper he could use a heavy charge of powder.

Based on what I am reading, I still have doubts that he used a minie ball. I still think it was a flat based conical bullet.
 
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He could have been talking about a paper patched bullet. Or maybe he was talking about the pre loaded charges with the powder, and bullet wrapped.
 
Longshot231 said:
I am at the part of the book where Jack Hinson has picked off the officers on the boats passing by Hurricane Creek. It's kind of difficult to tell by the map in the book but what was the range from his firing point to the boat's location in Towhead chute?

I tried to locate the spot on Googlemaps but no luck.

The one part of the book that the author writes about loading a minie ball with a patch is curious. Was he referring to a paper-jacketed minie ball?

That was not unheard of as the Pritchard round is basically a paper-jacketed round. On the other hand, could he be referring to a conical bullet with a flat base that had the crossed strips of paper for a jacket? Or a bullet with a wrapped paper jacket?

The author also says the Jack loaded 100 grains of powder in the barrel. Unless he had a special mold which would cast a minie ball with thick skirts, he stood a chance of blowing the skirt out and ruining the accuracy.

On the other hand, if he used a flat based conical with crossed strips of paper he could use a heavy charge of powder.

Based on what I am reading, I still have doubts that he used a minie ball. I still think it was a flat based conical bullet.
Click to expand...

All good points... and part of why I built this thing!

Right now, I am going to start out with the Tennessee Rifle Minie, as I have documentation on its design and it is 'close' to what I think it should be. But I may also have a new mold made with a flat bottom if I don't get happy results with a minie. And I might try paper patching! But until I get a 'first' bullet style and start shooting, I won't know where I am.

Also, there is a chance I will get to examine the rifle in the future. That will answer a lot. And I have contact info for the author and simply have not had time to contact him and ask about some details. Plus a plan to research medical records to see if a bullet was sketched or recorded... which is a long, long shot. But history has been un-raveled with fewer straws to grasp at.

I think paper patching IS a distinct possibility... But don't know yet. Won't know until I see the performance with a minie!

This is 'experimental history' at its purest in a lot of ways. In a case where you have only partial information, one can begin to re-create the parts... and then re-create the narrative. And if it can't be re-created, it does not negate it... but it does create avenues for new explorations.

As for the shooting locations and related geography... You probably won't find much from Google Earth these days. Because what was "The Land Between the Rivers" is now the "Land Between the Lakes..." due to damming and water projects that have created lakes where once there were rapids and chutes. The book has one good map in it... but I think it would be very interesting to try and find some topo maps from the 1920's. Before the dams had been built by the TVA.

From what I understand, Hinson's cave (more of a grotto) is still there and can be visited. It is about 1000 yards from what 'was' the river bank of the Cumberland (again... I may be wrong on this... so until I visit this fall... I am going by the same sources you are). The book and some later talks (on YouTube) indicate that he would descend from his camp/grotto to pre-selected sites along the river bank and fire from far enough back in the woods that the smoke from his rifle would dissipate from the trees and he could escape back up the ledges easily. My guess is that he was trying to get within 100 - 200 yards of the river bank (or closer).

At the same time, the river was, in some places, 500 (or more) yards wide. So if he was shooting at a boat 'hugging the far bank... or using the slow water on the inside of a river bend to make headway... then his shots might be a greater distance.

There are a lot of folks who 'poo poo' the stories because of how far his 'hide' was from the river. But noone should ever confuse a 'hide' with a camping location!

Anyway... I'm going to go see if I can find some early topo maps... Pre TVA. Good lead! Thanks!

Sirhr
 
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I'd be inclined to believe a paper patched solid based bullet -they can be driven very hard, and very accurately.

Regarding the Minnie bullet comments from contemporary sources, it isn't at all hard to believe that the term was used for all non round ball projectiles by a significant section of the population - look at the assault rifle handle an what it gets attached to currently - gun guys know, but most people are not gun guys.

As for muzzleloader accuracy, this guy has quite the internet binge worthy library...

While I'm waiting for my rotator cuff to heal after surgery I'm dry firing this in the office to keep boredom at bay. I'll move it into the workshop with reduced 30 grain loads shortly. It's a .54 Jim Chambers English sporting rifle kit made with a left hand L&R round faced lock. Sure puts a dent in deer.

20210826_075001.jpg
 
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From his previous video, he is using a Lyman Volunteer 450 grain sized to .451, pushed by 60 gr 1 1/2F Swiss - hardly a stroppy load - I guess speed thrill, but accuracy kills.
 
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Finally got to see Shenandoah.... yup, can't believe I had not seen it sooner.

Pretty campy and has a few Hinson themes.. but also a lot of 1950's civil rights themes, rugged individualism and strong anti-communist messages (classic Jimmy Stewart) with digs at 'the state.'

Guess Hinson is sort of the cross between Jimmy Stewart in Shenandoah and Josey Wales. Men who wanted to be left alone.

Good flick. Nothing like what I expected. But good.

Sirhr
 
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SQ54 said:
@sirhrmechanic Just curious, do you own this book? Most likely you already have it.

https://www.amazon.com/Muzzle-Loadi...eloading+cap+lock+rifle&qid=1631738647&sr=8-1

Good info there.

This may not be applicable to your rifle but is interesting none the less.
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View attachment 7703998View attachment 7703999
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Hi SQ 54…. Thanks! Neat stuff and no I don’t have that book. One I referenced earlier talks about these bullets, though. They were not uncommon and were all part of the cool experimentation folks were doing before the war with longer bulkets of smaller caliber.

Whitworth was a huge proponent in the UK and In the USA there were gunmakers working ton stuff and patenting designs left and right. But the Ordnance Dept was so insular and some say inept… it was almost impossible to get advanced designs accepted. Even after the Civil War started, the Ordnance adept was still basically pushing 1840 technology.

The Gatling gun was rejected because it would “waste ammo” and innovative cartridges were rejected because they didn’t want another supply chain item (and there is some validity to the second argument… as the Germans discovered in WW2.

Cool stuff and I will look for a copy of that!

Thanks!

Sirhr
 
sirhrmechanic said:
Hi SQ 54…. Thanks! Neat stuff and no I don’t have that book. One I referenced earlier talks about these bullets, though. They were not uncommon and were all part of the cool experimentation folks were doing before the war with longer bulkets of smaller caliber.

Whitworth was a huge proponent in the UK and In the USA there were gunmakers working ton stuff and patenting designs left and right. But the Ordnance Dept was so insular and some say inept… it was almost impossible to get advanced designs accepted. Even after the Civil War started, the Ordnance adept was still basically pushing 1840 technology.

The Gatling gun was rejected because it would “waste ammo” and innovative cartridges were rejected because they didn’t want another supply chain item (and there is some validity to the second argument… as the Germans discovered in WW2.

Cool stuff and I will look for a copy of that!

Thanks!

Sirhr
Click to expand...

This post could probably be made every fifty years in our history and still be applicable....just update the samples to the "last time" history repeated itself.
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
2


@lowlight checking out the Hinson replica after Precision Rifle Expo.

In this case, the rifle really IS that big!

Cheers,

Sirhr
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Am I the only one cringing because the heal of that beast is resting in the gravel?

Resting rifles is why God gave us the tops of our feet......unless they are GI and you want to slam the deck and make the bolt go to lock back.
 
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pmclaine said:
Am I the only one cringing because the heal of that beast is resting in the gravel?

Resting rifles is why God gave us the tops of our feet......unless they are GI and you want to slam the deck and make the bolt go to lock back.
Click to expand...
I also cringed, lol.
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
Doesn’t bother me a bit. He rested gently and a little bit of patina is not gonna hurt that rifle one bit. I probably did more scratching hauling it up and down the side of the cliffs to Hinsons cave on Tuesday. Cheers
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I figured as much. I hope you really enjoy it, and can’t wait on the range report.
 
sirhrmechanic said:
The mold shipped from Montana on Thursday… I have to find a set of saeco handles…. They are out everywhere except brownell and their online ordering sucks. So working on it!

Sirhr
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I might have a pair. If all else fails you could mod a pair of Lee 6 cavity handles. Will you ladle or bottom pour?


Check out KAL tool and die. I’ve used there handles for years. Very well made. http://www.kal.castpics.net/default.htm
 
Bigfatcock said:
I might have a pair. If all else fails you could mod a pair of Lee 6 cavity handles. Will you ladle or bottom pour?


Check out KAL tool and die. I’ve used there handles for years. Very well made. http://www.kal.castpics.net/default.htm
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Last week went to Dixie Gun works and bought a ladle pot and a ladle. I do t like how my production pot does some bullets. So now going to ladle the big ones.
 
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pmclaine said:
You "modern sized" yours.

I hope it doesnt get Type 2 diabetes.
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We worked off photos and a handful of dimensions.... we got it 'almost' dead nuts. Design wise, we captured everything.

It's about 2" bigger. But considering we had rough dimensions and nothing but Internet Photos to work from... yeah, happy!

Cheers,

Sirhr
 
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pmclaine said:
Am I the only one cringing because the heal of that beast is resting in the gravel?

Resting rifles is why God gave us the tops of our feet......unless they are GI and you want to slam the deck and make the bolt go to lock back.
Click to expand...
After seeing his work on the horn buttplate on another thread, I to cringed at that. But if sirhmechanic is OK with it then I'll uncringe myself.
 
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sirhrmechanic said:
We worked off photos and a handful of dimensions.... we got it 'almost' dead nuts. Design wise, we captured everything.

It's about 2" bigger. But considering we had rough dimensions and nothing but Internet Photos to work from... yeah, happy!

Cheers,

Sirhr
Click to expand...

The likeness is amazing.

You did very well not criticizing.

if your intent is to shoot it it would have made sense to "modern size" it as Im guessing your average CSA member with a custom build would build to what today would equal Cricket dimensions.

PS - Im thinking the photo is also showing some "optical illusion" and the difference is exagerated in picture.
 
pmclaine said:
The likeness is amazing.

You did very well not criticizing.

if your intent is to shoot it it would have made sense to "modern size" it as Im guessing your average CSA member with a custom build would build to what today would equal Cricket dimensions.

PS - Im thinking the photo is also showing some "optical illusion" and the difference is exagerated in picture.
Click to expand...
Hinson was 5'7"... not short by the standards of the day. I'm 5'11". Holding the original... it was 'fine' size-wise.

He was also exactly my age when he started his campaign. And running up and down those cliffs was hard work. I mean hard work. With a 30 pound rifle and a small pack. Captain Jack was one tough hombre.

And you are correct that there is some illusion in the picture that makes the replica look a little bigger. But not much. It's a bit bigger.

Sirhr
 
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