Just a reminder about discussing technical data

MarinePMI

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  • Jun 3, 2010
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    All,

    Just a gentle reminder that discussing ITAR technical data on an open forum constitutes an illegal export.

    The Hide is already in the spotlight because of some of it's members' antics, we don't need the State Department involved as well.

    All posts with ITAR controlled data discussions will be deleted from public view.

    MPMI
     

    MarinePMI

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  • Jun 3, 2010
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    I’ll admit this got an eyebrow to raise from me?
    Well, Frank has commented (very loudly I might add) several times that we are being watched, so it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.

    And I don't say that as a slap down to you specifically (not my intent), but more as a statement (again) for people to remember that what they say on here matters...and is likely being watched.
     

    2aBaC̶a̶

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    How do you know if something in regards to information specifically falls under ITAR?

    Ive always understood it as only pertaining to "classified". But general non classified information doesnt fall under ITAR unless the person providing information is part of the supply chain, then its more like a person violating an NDA.

    for example we can discuss the tires used on an F35 without violating ITAR. unless you work for Lockheed or Goodyear or anyone in between.
     

    babyguppy

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    so, if it can be found on the internet, it's ok.. but, if it's not in public use, a no go?
     

    MarinePMI

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  • Jun 3, 2010
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    How do you know if something in regards to information specifically falls under ITAR?

    Ive always understood it as only pertaining to "classified". But general non classified information doesnt fall under ITAR unless the person providing information is part of the supply chain, then its more like a person violating an NDA.

    for example we can discuss the tires used on an F35 without violating ITAR. unless you work for Lockheed or Goodyear or anyone in between.
    You need to check the ITAR USML (United States Munitions List). Depending on the program/technology, yes, even the tires can be ITAR controlled when they pertain to a certain capability.

    As to it being classified, no, it doesn't need to be classified. NV technology is an example of this. In and of itself, it isn't classified, but the tech (needed to produce it) is ITAR controlled. And yes, even discussing it (technical details), is considered as an unauthorized tech export. Space/missile tech is another example of where even discussing it verbally, is considered an unauthorized export. If it isn't in an open source ITAR approved article or slip sheet, then it may very well be ITAR controlled. The best advice is, that if you are unsure, don't talk about it publicly.

    USML Link:
     

    eca7891

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    Well, Frank has commented (very loudly I might add) several times that we are being watched, so it shouldn't come as too much of a surprise.

    And I don't say that as a slap down to you specifically (not my intent), but more as a statement (again) for people to remember that what they say on here matters...and is likely being watched.
    I was more referring to the members and statements that any hffhgvjusdvkl organizations would even care enough to look into.

    It’s not like we are some super secret society. 🤣

    But yeah…..such are the times we live in.

    Then again that all kinda ties into the post I just made.

    So it doesn’t really surprise me I guess.


    😪
     
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    Lowlight

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  • Apr 12, 2001
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    This has not been an issue I am aware of currently, but safety first should be considered.

    There are two elements at play,

    1. Non-gun members who are here to "spy" on you for the opposition party, these members will watch what you are saying; they might even instigate a bit, then they report you for perceived violations real or not. It's a game to them.

    unfortunately, like all of the social media today, there are elements laying just below the surface looking to zap you, me, and the other guy the first chance they get. So they report anything they feel is "illegal" or even, in their mind, "Should be Illegal" they will try every underhanded trick in an attempt to slow us down.

    So I run into . Gov types contacting me for details, if it's close, I have to comply; however, if it's bullshit, I will block it for you.
    In one instance, they wanted owners of PLRF15s identified as they believed they were military-only gear. No, anyone can buy a 15, so go jump in a lake; you're not getting it. But if they say, We think that is stolen, or we need to check numbers, not much we can do.

    2. They see something not knowing the rules but report anyways, this happens a lot, so again, you have to be specific with certain things. I have gotten "reports" of something perceived as illegal or military, and a week later, the government is asking for info, so it happens.

    The main thing is, don't give anyone any excuses to look under the hood because they will ask.

    We get it; certain things are more public than the public realizes; we know what we are doing; however, they don't, which means we have to play defense. The best defense is to be careful upfront.

    I have not been asked to flag anything ITAR-related, but I have seen and fielded a few questions, which means someone found the ITAR page and now wants to apply it to everything we say. So please know what you say is being watched and not always by friendly types.
     

    Lowlight

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  • Apr 12, 2001
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    Normally,

    The ITAR is used as an add-on and not a direct charge unless you are selling information to the Chinese or something

    This would be an additional charge, sort of like the cherry on top; I highly doubt anyone is posting anything on SH that would be considered really against ITAR; you'd have to do some mental gymnastics to make it fit if you ask me.

    Mostly it's mischaracterizations of the rules, this stuff was initially meant for missiles, nukes, et al., and now it's down to our level as if we have that degree of technical knowledge. Nobody is telling you how to build a nuke here.
     
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    JBoomhauer

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    In this case the AP he is asking about is controlled under ITAR.

    The OP was asking for specific materials and dimensions.

    D04FF47E-BE84-46F2-A088-FF5102A8538E.jpeg


    I mentioned it as a heads up to keep forum members out of any sort of awkward situation.
     

    Lowlight

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  • Apr 12, 2001
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    Ya, 20mm might be big enough, but honestly, I don't know if "making a bullet" falls under this scope.

    Maybe, but guys make bullets all the time. I have one here that was originally designed to take a charge in the base that was supposed to ignite and give you more velocity. But a 20mm is big enough to take a payload so it might fall into a bad place. But we have Sabots in shotguns and other stuff so, again, pretty gray.

    I get it, better safe than sorry,
     

    Doc68

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    So no talk about anything gun related on a gun forum because it may in some way or another through someone's opinion may violate ITAR......🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

    Doc
     
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    Lowlight

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  • Apr 12, 2001
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    Unfortunately, it can happen.

    If they really wanted to, they could stop any discussion of ballistic apps; those actually go against ITAR because it's artillery based. Rockets, Bullets, and Ballistics = bad

    But yes, there are certain gun-related things that can't be discussed with people from other countries.

    Like even selling a Mil-Based scope to a Canadian is against ITAR Rules, technically speaking.
     

    sirhrmechanic

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    Exactly

    It's their method, so take heed, but know, when all else fails I will simply blame Mazerblade
    Didn't he do something like pull a thorn out of your paw when he was a child... like Androcles...

    "It happened in ancient times that a slave named Maserblade escaped from the Juvie Squad and fled into the forests near Camp Pendleton, and he wandered there for a long time until he was weary.

    Just then he heard a Marine near him moaning and groaning and at times roaring terribly. And when he tried to get up, there he saw the Marine coming towards him, low-crawling in his Ghillie.

    Instead of attacking him, the Marine kept on moaning and groaning and looking at Maserblade, who saw that the Scout Sniper was holding out his right hand, which was covered with blood and very much swollen. Looking more closely at it, Maser saw a great big thorn pressed into the hand, which was the cause of all the Marine's trouble.

    Plucking up courage, he seized hold of the thorn and drew it out of the Marine's Hand, who roared with pain when the thorn came out, but soon after found such relief from it that he rubbed up against Maser, but not in a gay way, and showed that he knew, that he was truly thankful for being relieved from such pain.

    One day, a number of LAPD Juvie officers came marching through the forest and found Maser, sitting in a diaper and reading an X-men comic. They took him prisoner and brought him back to the town, and he was sentenced into the Marines because he had fled from the Cal-Penal Gladiator Academy. Now it used to be the custom to throw taggers, car thieves, pederasts and other petty criminals into the Marines, and on the appointed day he was led forth into the Grinder.

    The Mayor of L.A. was there that day to make sure Maserblade could never again debauch his city... and gave the signal for the Drill Instructors to come out and attack young Maser. But when one came out of its barracks and confronted young Maserblade, what do you think it did? Instead of jumping upon him, it rubbed up against him (but not in a gay way), and stroked him with his healed hand.

    It was of course the Marine who Maserblade had met in the forest. The Mayor summoned Maser to him. So Maserblade told the mayor all that had happened to him and how the Marine was showing gratitude for his having relieved it of the thorn. Thereupon, the mayor pardoned Maser and ordered the Marines to discharge him and allow him to lead a fruitful life (but not in a gay way).

    The Marine was let loose to enjoy freedom once more and found Snipers Hide.

    I think that's how it happened. It explains a lot.

    Sirhr
     
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    NoDopes

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    Are we allowed to discuss the secret ARs that shoot 5 times faster than any other guns in existence? Biden released this into public domain right?
     

    M4orturnate

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    I was more referring to the members and statements that any hffhgvjusdvkl organizations would even care enough to look into.

    It’s not like we are some super secret society. 🤣

    But yeah…..such are the times we live in.

    Then again that all kinda ties into the post I just made.

    So it doesn’t really surprise me I guess.


    😪
    You kidding? Going to a school board meeting gets you a visit from the feds now and labeled a terrorist.
     

    eca7891

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    You kidding? Going to a school board meeting gets you a visit from the feds now and labeled a terrorist.
    Well yeah….

    We are living in fucking retarded times.

    I forgot we are now in clown world. 🤡

    Just ignore my above post they were made thinking there was some sanity left.
     

    MK20

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    So how do I use the report button to report all those fuckers high up the chain in the USG who directly ordered us to leave PVS 31As and LA-5, etc, etc, in Afghanistan?

    One guy was in charge of a literal fucking conex of PVS 31s and directed the guys to just padlock it as that was considered "secure" and to leave it.

    Fortunately a few friends raised hell and then they told the guy to burn all the units in the conex.

    ITAR is rules for thee and not for the USG.
     

    M4orturnate

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    So how do I use the report button to report all those fuckers high up the chain in the USG who directly ordered us to leave PVS 31As and LA-5, etc, etc, in Afghanistan?

    One guy was in charge of a literal fucking conex of PVS 31s and directed the guys to just padlock it as that was considered "secure" and to leave it.

    Fortunately a few friends raised hell and then they told the guy to burn all the units in the conex.

    ITAR is rules for thee and not for the USG
    So how do I use the report button to report all those fuckers high up the chain in the USG who directly ordered us to leave PVS 31As and LA-5, etc, etc, in Afghanistan?

    One guy was in charge of a literal fucking conex of PVS 31s and directed the guys to just padlock it as that was considered "secure" and to leave it.

    Fortunately a few friends raised hell and then they told the guy to burn all the units in the conex.

    ITAR is rules for thee and not for the USG.
    The nv was bad enough, what about the aircrafts? Are the inside of blackhawks not classified?
     

    DeRico

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    There was a guy here from France trying to buy scopes in the exchange. Kept asking mofo’s to ship high end scopes to France.
     

    eca7891

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    Well.


    We finally got there.

    It’s official. This thread has hit bottom.
     

    Sean the Nailer

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    First off, ya'll are spelling "ITARd" wrong.

    Secondly, things are so ridiculously stupid with regards to that ITARd classification, that there is equipment that Giraud sells, but can't sell to me because I'm a Canadian.

    Canada (and us Canadians) are your ALLIES, man. And we're talking about 'prep' equipment.... not "missile nose-cone gizmo-whatsits" here.

    I can't stress enough, it is a completely ITARded situation. Especially when all ya'lls "higher-ups" (I say that, because they GOTTA be 'high') that left all that infrastructure to the enemies of the world. OOdles and oodles of it all. Might as well have given them flying lessons too.

    Oh wait....

    But we're safer now, aren't we?
     

    LeftyJason

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    Unfortunately, it can happen.

    If they really wanted to, they could stop any discussion of ballistic apps; those actually go against ITAR because it's artillery based. Rockets, Bullets, and Ballistics = bad

    But yes, there are certain gun-related things that can't be discussed with people from other countries.

    Like even selling a Mil-Based scope to a Canadian is against ITAR Rules, technically speaking.
    So we can't discuss selling a mil Tangent Theta to a Canadian?
    Jk. I'm too poor to have one of those.

    Actually selling one yes I can see could be against ITAR. But that's sad.
     

    sirhrmechanic

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    First off, ya'll are spelling "ITARd" wrong.

    Secondly, things are so ridiculously stupid with regards to that ITARd classification, that there is equipment that Giraud sells, but can't sell to me because I'm a Canadian.

    Canada (and us Canadians) are your ALLIES, man. And we're talking about 'prep' equipment.... not "missile nose-cone gizmo-whatsits" here.

    I can't stress enough, it is a completely ITARded situation. Especially when all ya'lls "higher-ups" (I say that, because they GOTTA be 'high') that left all that infrastructure to the enemies of the world. OOdles and oodles of it all. Might as well have given them flying lessons too.

    Oh wait....

    But we're safer now, aren't we?
    Well, at least you can get a welder truck. As long as it’s not equipped with night vision.

    Sirhr
     

    sirhrmechanic

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    So we can't discuss selling a mil Tangent Theta to a Canadian?
    Jk. I'm too poor to have one of those.

    Actually selling one yes I can see could be against ITAR. But that's sad.

    Canadians are prohibited from sharing Poutine recipes and won’t export Laura Secord chocolates. So they need to stop complaining.

    Sorry, Sean.

    Sirhr