Mass shootings and PTSD

[hermosabeach]

Having a discussion with friends about the former marine shooting up the country bar.

One of them said that we need to disarm everyone with PTSD until they can show they are healthy.

My comment was 2 parts to start

1- this would prevent a lot of people from seeking treatment
2- there were 16 million people in the US military in World War 2

For some reason, no one did a mass shooting post WW2. In WW 2 you could also bring home war trophy’s - nazi machine guns - fine to bring home

The US has changed- if we don’t want to address this change, we will never solve the mass shooting. We will never solved the black on black violence in chicago

The culture has changed- so we want to address the change or disarm women so they can be easier victums.



In

https://warfarehistorynetwork.com/daily/wwii/expanding-the-size-of-the-u-s-military-in-world-war-ii/


How are you discussing the recent events?

 

[ArmyJerry]

Your friend needs to march up and start knocking on doors and demand they hand over weapons.

 

[...]

why? Is that gonna somehow stop mass shootings?

Also...just vets? Or anyone with ptsd?

We don’t even know yet that ptsd was even a factor in the shooting...so we’re just going to deprive thousands of americans of their rights because.... reasons?

What about all those other mass shooters who didn’t have ptsd?

When are people going to learn that laws can’t keep you safe.... and bad people are going to do bad things regardless?

 

[quietmike]

A WWII soldier did a mass shooting in New Jersey with a Luger in the late 40s IIRC.

I do agree the culture has changed. Nearly every modern mass shooter has been on psychotropic drugs, whose side effects include suicidal/homicidal ideations.

 

[Bandit31]

This may turn out to be a long fiery rant but I've experienced this to an extent and what I've been hearing and seeing, especially being not far from this ordeal, I'm a little fired up

I watched it happened some years ago with Obama and his cronies. Tons of guys I know stopped or refused treatment for PTSD because, under the BS that was going on, they feared their 2A rights would vanish. It also happened to guys needing treatment for TBI, my self-included, because of the lazy fucks at the VA and civs at the hospitals on base were trying to treat TBI patients for PTSD because it was "easier". I just went through the same experience again with a civ doctor for my TBI too. Seven years after getting blown up, my TBI is magically cured and poof, I now have PTSD. No explanation why the DR just decided to act like a cunt when I questioned his opinion and said "Do you just want us to wave a magic wand and make your head injury disappear? Too bad, we're not and I'm just going to give you these mood-altering pills and see you in three months". Doesn't really encourage me to re-seek treatment, especially now when shooting was one of the only things that I benefited from when trying to recover instead of the toe touching and snake oils.

The VA is also known to red flag vets seeking treatment. I don't think that really encourages those that need to seek treatment to do so only to have their rights violated. I also believe that the social stigma isn't doing anyone any favors in seeking treatment either. So far in my experience, those that are hootin' and hollerin' to disarm those that seek or sought treatment for PTSD are the same ones that ramp up the social stigma in the first place.

Then what about those that suffered from domestic abuse or sexual assault? In my hometown in CA, the Sherriff hands out CCW's no problem, and from what I've witnessed women especially. Why? Because in this cesspool of progressive filth, crime keeps going up, and up, and up. Last year was the worst I heard about sex trafficking, with girls going missing, stalked, harassed, assaulted. Would that cause a traumatic event in a young woman's life? I'd think so. Last year was also the most I've seen millennial females in my area want to be armed so they don't become victims or be victimized again. So if any woman goes through a traumatic experience, seeks help for it, and gets diagnosed with PTSD, they're now a threat to society, become disarmed, and to be what victims again? Hell, within the past year we already had a mass shooting here for a love triangle gone wrong, where a guy killed his estranged spouse and four others. We also had a girl get chased by an ex, who reportedly harassed her in the past, get hacked up by him with a machete. She lived, so now the snowflakes want her to be defenseless?

How in the world does that make any sense? I thought these progressive fucks were supposed to be the champions of women's rights and people of color? And Dem's are now trying to portray people with PTSD as the problem? And who gets to decide the "standard" of basing whether someone is healthy or not? The progressive doctors who are wildly known as incompetent? The liberal horde? Seems like a giant crock of shit to me.

 

[supercorndogs]

It doesn't, but that is the normal mode of operation.

 

[Lowlight]

These are just really complicated Suicides for the most part.

Why is it unpredictable, why is it unstoppable, because you'd need Tom Cruise in Minority Report in order to get into people's head.

It needs to be classified as a form of Suicide unless the shooter gives up, but when a majority of them kill themselves, it's pretty easy to see, Suicide.

 

[ArmyJerry]

Well I am not surprised and you might be right Frank but I think there is something more sinister with the majority of these cases. The demographic and political affiliations trend heavily in one direction. 90+ % or higher.

 

[Lowlight]

The other issue is, this guy got into a Motorcycle accident in 2015 and was on Pain Med, and his neighbor said it all changed after he started using the pain meds.

I most of these guys are on some sort of medication, that is another common thread to these

 

[oneshot86]

i never considered the suicide, yes, i agree.
we see suicide by cop..., person is raising hell till cops come, acts out, gets it,
these guys for some reason, main, then suicide or suicide by cop

the drugs also.

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

Make everyone else feel the pain that you feel, an especially immature suicide. Drugs do usually lead to less mature decision making so good points all around.

When will organizers of large events be required to have a real security presence? When will police start carrying pistol ARs and treat their Glocks like the old .38 ??

Talk to your buddies, help stop this all, and maybe we get to keep our hobby... They can't take all the firearms but they probably can take away the cool and fun and hyper precise ones like we like to use on nasty old Mr. Target or to keep up with the Joneses (whether they be zombie, zombie Commie, zombie vampire or woodchuck)

 

[mdmp5]

If PTSD caused mass shootings, there would be about 10 a day in each state

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

It's not the PTSD - it's the fact that our modern society, for whatever/unknown reason, is making mass murderers. We have not yet studied *why* this is happening...we blame the weapon, the Gun, or all kinds of stuff but until we determine the Root Cause of these murders we are all just pissing in the wind.

Something in our Society is creating a huge number of people who are so fucked up that they need to kill their neighbors. It ain't the weapons, it's the people.

Why? What is happening?

VooDoo

 

[mdmp5]

mass shootings or killings are nothing new. they are just sensationalized today, making them seem unique to the times. And there isn't a greater incidence of them either.

 

[Deleted member 113831]

In the mind of a delusional, it is better to be infamous than anonymous.

 

[Roo_man]

We just had a nutter here in Melbourne attacking civilians with a knife til he was shot by cops. If someone is set on killing, they'll get it done gun or no gun.

 

[Peterpan]

Just solve the problem by taking guns away from liberals. 99% of mass shootings are not
Done by conservatives

 

[Schroedernd]

Just solve the problem by taking guns away from liberals. 99% of mass shootings are not
Done by conservatives

Do you actually believe what you just said or is that to deflect the real issue? https://www.politifact.com/new-york...y-mass-shooters-end-being-democrats-rep-tenn/

 

[RRG]

I heard a report on the radio yesterday that this guy was crazy before he went into the military. He supposedly attacked PE teacher or a coach, can’t remember the details, but he had problems before the combat experience.

 

[Blutroop]

It’s the pills. Wake up. I have been told (at one time while still in) I have ptsd, clinical to severe depression, anxiety, paranoia, (just cause your paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t trying to kill you) and guess what most of the warning labels said “may cause homisidal or suisidal tendicies” when one isn’t working they are quick to hand you another. Most of those pills take up to 2 months to tell if it’s working. If it takes that long to get on, then how long to get off?? WHY is no one making this connection.. when we first started having kids shoot up schools (columbine?) they were all on prescriptions.. why does the media try and ignore this?? Why is there a Muslim mosque across the street from the Houston v.a.? Anyone that’s ever tried to find parking at Houston v.a.. can you seriously tell me they aren’t encouraging us to snap?? 2008 right wing rationalization report?? Light reading for anyone that wants to see how our gov thinks about vets.. I’m Alaskan now, but Texas raised so.. if you want my guns.. “Come And Take It” if you ain’t smart enough to see that they must keep we the people divided and they must disarm or kill vets before they can do anything major then your as useless as cannon fodder.. actually you’d be a parasitic drain until you could be given the opertunity to be cannon fodder. Do you have to ask a infantryman why tankers call them “crunchies”?

 

[Blutroop]

Op wants to talk about ww11 vets and ptsd back then when your grandpa would wake up screaming buddies names in the middle of the night it was normal. Back then the cops would see you sumbling home from the bar and give you a ride. People would try and get him to captain a shrimp boat all the time, but after leading men in war he would never again take a leadership position. They fought for our rights. They fought against communism. They fought for our 2nd adm. they gave us the best gift they could with their blood and their lives. And were is that gift now?? We let illegals wipe there ass with it. We let a closet Muslim that wasn’t even born here in the White House. We let communism into politics and we actually have people so bought into these hidden agendas that they protest the gov to take away guns??? WTF! We let gov take away guns in New Orleans and nothing happens.. we let them take away guns from individuals in commie states here in America! I am ashamed to tell any ww11 vet this happened on my watch. There are places in America we’re your not allowed to keep rainwater that falls on your roof.. there are places were it’s illegal to talk about Muslims but this nation founded on Christianity doesn’t even have the same protections.. and re revolted over taxes and debters prisons yet a judge can throw you in jail indefinitely for not paying child support, reguardless of weather you even have s job. Irs can take all your Money directly from your bank account any time they want. The government can even label you a terrorist and completely deny you any of your rights. How could we let this happen? What are we gonna do about it?

 

[FS1]

When we start disarming groups of people, its only a matter of time till they get to your group.

The answer is not that hard. Arm people don't disarm them. The real choice becomes who is more dangerous? Your armed neighbor or the armed Govt that disarmed him.

I would rather have to arm myself to protect myself, than be disarmed and at the mercy of the Govt. I would have no protection or real defense from them. Unbridled Govt, runs wild with power. They already think my power comes from them. When we all know it's supposed to be the other way around.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Part of the equation here is a failure on the side of medical care.
Doctors are scared to properly diagnose their patients for fear of being sued or creating a stigma in the mind of the patient.

These people must have proper diagnosis and treatment or they have no chance of a better life.

I believe that HIPA regulations need to change to allow placing a red flag into the NICS system. Of course that red flag can be abused so it's a slippery slope.

 

[johnnycat]

Part of the equation here is a failure on the side of medical care.
Doctors are scared to properly diagnose their patients for fear of being sued or creating a stigma in the mind of the patient.

These people must have proper diagnosis and treatment or they have no chance of a better life.

I believe that HIPA regulations need to change to allow placing a red flag into the NICS system. Of course that red flag can be abused so it's a slippery slope.

I agree with first part to some extent, but it is still more complicated than that. I do agree with failure of medical care and medical system because most MD's just want to give a medication for a symptom (I'm guilty of this too, I just don't treat depression/PTSD/anxiety) and get on to the next patient. But PTSD is very complex and our anti-depressive meds are WAY overused. Not to be Tom Cruise or anything, but a lot of people would be much better off not taking anti-depressive meds.

On the red flag in NICS - absolutely not! Many doctors think guns are the enemy. Many would look forward to restricting a citizens' ability to legally purchases a firearm. When I was in med school we had an Emergency Room physician preach to us that it was our job to lobby for gun control - and that was back in the 90's before the liberals really took over.

 

[...]

I believe that HIPA regulations need to change to allow placing a red flag into the NICS system. Of course that red flag can be abused so it's a slippery slope.

ah yes....more govt oversight that allows peoples rights to be stripped away without due process....thatll solve it!!

thats not a "slippery slope"....thats straight up "jumping off the cliff"

 

[ArmyJerry]

nope, fuck hippa, the gov has no business in our medical at all. They have no business restricting rights at all. nobody asked them the constitution does not allow them, fuck that.

 

[GrandpaDeadLegs]

In addition to Pills, I would blame the Internet for making it so incredibly easy to "publish" your thoughts for billions to be forced to see based on their addiction to New Content.

I could go downtown naked with a big orange paintball gun and every single one of you would know about it before dinner without me saying a word.... And I would get to sit in jail giggling away at all of you taking a collective two billions minutes to look at my butt while I crazy yell at local cops. That's over 33 million man hours! Even in lower wage markets that's me robbing the planet of millions of dollars of productivity.

Let's get off our phones!

 

[Peterpan]

Do you actually believe what you just said or is that to deflect the real issue? https://www.politifact.com/new-york...y-mass-shooters-end-being-democrats-rep-tenn/

I definitely believe my statement . Look at just the school shootings. They were either democrats or raised by parents that are democrats. Also Kansas and other conservative states just don’t have the mass shootings that the more liberal states have. That stems from our values and culture.

 

[FS1]

I would not click it unless it said GrandmaDeadlegs naked with paintball gun.

 

[Mike Casselton]

And this is what I love about the Hide.
I put up an idea that in its infancy sounds like a good idea.

The responses I get from that idea show where my sense of logic is flawed.

More gov't oversite?
No thank you, you're correct.

Fucked up doctors with fucked up agendas?
No thanks!

How about we go back to enforcing the laws already on the books and remove bad laws.
Sounds good at the present.

PSA on PSA, they are having a sale. Buy more ammo and a new gun or three.

 

[ArmyJerry]

90+ % of them are democrats, period, registered fucking democrats, I been tracking each one for r=years, they are democrats and most are n pain or antidepressants. End of the day, make their families liable civilly for not taking care of their spawn lets see how many happen after that.

I definitely believe my statement . Look at just the school shootings. They were either democrats or raised by parents that are democrats. Also Kansas and other conservative states just don’t have the mass shootings that the more liberal states have. That stems from our values and culture.

 

[RNWRKNP]

Enacting stricter laws on guns didn’t help the victims of this crime that happened in one of the most restrictive states in the nation. Chicago would be another example of that folly. Agree with everybody that suggests that we are not addressing the root cause. I can’t express my disgust and outrage toward those who would vilify our veterans? If those in government want to take away guns we should start with their protection details first and their personal fire arms second. Ya know........lead by example. God bless you vets for standing a post and saying not on my watch. I will always be grateful.

 

[Redmanss]

I won't even justify the PTSD comments of the OP's ignorant co-worker with a proper response. Instead, I'll respond by stating I want to ban anyone from exercising their constitutional right to vote if they suffer from liberalism until they're cured.

Okay, one response... Rape victims are also afflicted heavily by PTSD. Tell them they're not allowed to arm and defend themselves until they're "healthy".

 

[Blutroop]

Part of the equation here is a failure on the side of medical care.
Doctors are scared to properly diagnose their patients for fear of being sued or creating a stigma in the mind of the patient.

These people must have proper diagnosis and treatment or they have no chance of a better life.

I believe that HIPA regulations need to change to allow placing a red flag into the NICS system. Of course that red flag can be abused so it's a slippery slope.

Bigpharma is the problem. You can’t constantly look for scapegoats. Doctors aren’t trained to make you better, only to treat the effects, not the cause itself. Read about Rockefeller and how oil money started the “medical system” we have today and then let’s talk about doctors. Have you ever been in a car wreck? Simple people that aren’t capable of mentally handling combat can and have got ptsd from things as small as a car wreck or getting mugged. You want to red flag people with ptsd? That makes a lot of sense, go after the victims. You need us vets to save you when they come for your gun once they made it that far down the list. You need us to have the best assault rifle we can, not your grandpas old musket. We protected you already, now you need to do your part to protect us. No One Is Free When Anyone Is Oppressed. You need to be fighting against these divide and conquer tactics, not allowing yourself to drink the cool-aid. If you don’t like it there are plenty of countries out there you can move to that don’t have guns.. look up stabbing deaths in those countries first though. Look up the Warsaw ghetto of ww11. One of the survivors was qouted as saying his only regret was not having a submachine gun. You know the Nazis started by disarming certain groups first. Read your history or your doomed to repeat it.

 

[Mike Casselton]

Bigpharma is the problem. You can’t constantly look for scapegoats. Doctors aren’t trained to make you better, only to treat the effects, not the cause itself. Read about Rockefeller and how oil money started the “medical system” we have today and then let’s talk about doctors. Have you ever been in a car wreck? Simple people that aren’t capable of mentally handling combat can and have got ptsd from things as small as a car wreck or getting mugged. You want to red flag people with ptsd? That makes a lot of sense, go after the victims. You need us vets to save you when they come for your gun once they made it that far down the list. You need us to have the best assault rifle we can, not your grandpas old musket. We protected you already, now you need to do your part to protect us. No One Is Free When Anyone Is Oppressed. You need to be fighting against these divide and conquer tactics, not allowing yourself to drink the cool-aid. If you don’t like it there are plenty of countries out there you can move to that don’t have guns.. look up stabbing deaths in those countries first though. Look up the Warsaw ghetto of ww11. One of the survivors was qouted as saying his only regret was not having a submachine gun. You know the Nazis started by disarming certain groups first. Read your history or your doomed to repeat it.

New hide member...

I'll just put this here to let you know I don't want, need or wish for more government intrusion into my life or the lives of my family and friends.

Before you make any more unfounded assumptions, make sure you're aware of your audience and their background. Didn't Uncle Sam teach you that?
He taught it to me throughout my military career.

 

[Blutroop]

One more comment.. one of my buddies I served with, Chris Mintz was at a Oregon campus when a shooter came. He helped people get out and then stood in a doorway and took 7 bullets refusing to let the shooter in the classroom were everyone else was hiding. People like the op buddy and people in favor of red stripes because they didn’t know better. If your hiding in that classroom while someone is literally taking a bullet (or 7) for you, even though he can’t stand your political anti gun views, and that person has already been through combat, wouldn’t you want him to be armed?

 

[Blutroop]

I agree with first part to some extent, but it is still more complicated than that. I do agree with failure of medical care and medical system because most MD's just want to give a medication for a symptom (I'm guilty of this too, I just don't treat depression/PTSD/anxiety) and get on to the next patient. But PTSD is very complex and our anti-depressive meds are WAY overused. Not to be Tom Cruise or anything, but a lot of people would be much better off not taking anti-depressive meds.

On the red flag in NICS - absolutely not! Many doctors think guns are the enemy. Many would look forward to restricting a citizens' ability to legally purchases a firearm. When I was in med school we had an Emergency Room physician preach to us that it was our job to lobby for gun control - and that was back in the 90's before the liberals really took over.

I’d let you patch me up.

 

[Blutroop]

New hide member...

I'll just put this here to let you know I don't want, need or wish for more government intrusion into my life or the lives of my family and friends.

Before you make any more unfounded assumptions, make sure you're aware of your audience and their background. Didn't Uncle Sam teach you that?
He taught it to me throughout my military career.

I’m just responding to the comments I’ve read. I used to be able to Ass-u-Me that on a gun site people would be pro gun, and anyone pro gun should be pro 2nd. I’m tired of reading comments were people want to take away my guns. You took the same oath I did.. the constitution is under attack. It’s time for us to get to work

 

[Mike Casselton]

Well, you ass-u-med wrong about me.

You're playing into the divide and conquer routine.
Im not your enemy, nor anyone on this site except for maybe papa rock, bang bang and Mr Kristian. And, maybe a few like them.

Personally, I think the clock needs to be turned back on many/most gun laws.

The only one I would personally support is preventing violent felons from possessing.

As we all know, that law unto itself wouldn't do shit. Criminals don't care about laws or they wouldn't be criminals.

Some times, people make statements to get a discussion going. Devil's advocate of you will.

A civil discussion does a lot more good than a personal attack.

 

[Spblademaker]

Due Process

 

[Blutroop]

I’m just responding to the comments I’ve read. I used to be able to Ass-u-Me that on a gun site people would be pro gun, and anyone pro gun should be pro 2nd. I’m tired of reading comments were people want to take away my guns. You took the same oath I did.. the constitution is under attack. It’s time for us to get to work

Well, you ass-u-med wrong about me.

You're playing into the divide and conquer routine.
Im not your enemy, nor anyone on this site except for maybe papa rock, bang bang and Mr Kristian. And, maybe a few like them.

Personally, I think the clock needs to be turned back on many/most gun laws.

The only one I would personally support is preventing violent felons from possessing.

As we all know, that law unto itself wouldn't do shit. Criminals don't care about laws or they wouldn't be criminals.

Some times, people make statements to get a discussion going. Devil's advocate of you will.

A civil discussion does a lot more good than a personal attack.

I was not intending to attack you directly but after going though previous messages I couldn’t help notice you were originally in favor of ptsd flags. I have been open on this site that I was diagnosed with ptsd. You attacked me first, although I take it that wasn’t your intentions. Your a vet so we need to be on each other’s side. I have been indirectly attacked a lot just this morning on a few different posts. I’m all for being civil though. I apologize for having blanket statements with a lack of direction

 

[Blutroop]

New hide member...

I'll just put this here to let you know I don't want, need or wish for more government intrusion into my life or the lives of my family and friends.

Before you make any more unfounded assumptions, make sure you're aware of your audience and their background. Didn't Uncle Sam teach you that?
He taught it to me throughout my military career.

And not trying to stir the pot, but I was just a infantryman. For being aware of our audience they taught us fields of fire, and for background they taught us range estimation..

 

[Seymour Fish]

I agree with first part to some extent, but it is still more complicated than that. I do agree with failure of medical care and medical system because most MD's just want to give a medication for a symptom (I'm guilty of this too, I just don't treat depression/PTSD/anxiety) and get on to the next patient. But PTSD is very complex and our anti-depressive meds are WAY overused. Not to be Tom Cruise or anything, but a lot of people would be much better off not taking anti-depressive meds.

On the red flag in NICS - absolutely not! Many doctors think guns are the enemy. Many would look forward to restricting a citizens' ability to legally purchases a firearm. When I was in med school we had an Emergency Room physician preach to us that it was our job to lobby for gun control - and that was back in the 90's before the liberals really took over.

Johnny Cat, it seems you are under pressure to “move on quickly” to the next one. This is tragic for doctors and patients alike. Doctors participated in the big corporation/labor union boondoggle of “health insurance” as a bargaining chip, and profited handsomely. They suckered for Medicare at its inception, as the pay scale for this slow data mining govt intrusion was often 3x the going rate. They jumped on board the HMO train as could “practice medicine” from the golf course and have a phone bank of nurses stonewall the patients. Doctors abdicated their responsibility to patients in the process. Then the noose of data mining from the combine of insurance companies and Medicare tightened. Patient care is given lip service while these entities skim off the majority of national medical expenditure and micro manage You, a mere commodity, replaceable with a low quality foreign graduate, as no discrimination on the basis of quality is allowed, putting more downward pressure on your already thin bargaining position. AntiDepressants if anything are underutilized, and under-dosed by those bold enough to try. They are misused in personality disorders, PTSD can be treated with a combination of beta blockers, antidepressants, calcium blockers, and gabapentin successfully, but only if the patient discerns you give a shit and can be trusted. Takes time your owners won’t allow. No incentive for you to study the literature, or stick your neck out. Bipolar folks are largely misdiagnosed, and often become manic when given antidepressants. Lithium is demonized, yet effective in doses much lower than generally recognized. Not much profit margin. Thus the inordinate number of shooters on antidepressants begs the question of misdiagnosis and inappropriate treatment with medicine in decline. A psychopath is born, but a sociopath is created. Don’t take this diatribe as an attack. I empathize with the position you are in and wish you the best

 

[Blutroop]

I ask anyone that thinks ptsd should be nics flaged, Do you think all pit bulls should be put down?

 

[Mike Casselton]

@Blutroop
We're good man. No worries.
Infantry huh?
It could a been worse, you could have gone (ch)Air Force like I did.

 

[Blutroop]

@Blutroop
We're good man. No worries.
Infantry huh?
It could a been worse, you could have gone (ch)Air Force like I did.

Lol I tried but had to many arrests. So much for innocent till proven guilty. My brother in law is Air Force jet mechanic in England right now

 

[Mike Casselton]

I ask anyone that thinks ptsd should be nics flaged, Do you think all pit bulls should be put down?

I don't believe PTSD should be a red flag at all. It affects people differently and blanket rules should never be applied to anything.

I like the pit bull analogy.
My pooch is 50% but never gets treated like one because of outside appearances.

 

[Mike Casselton]

One of the things I overlooked in this entire thread was the title.
Had I noticed it containing PTSD, I would never have made the points I included in the first two replies.

My apologies go out to anyone and everyone that has any PTSD issues. I'll try and be more careful with my responses and make sure I read thread titles.

 

[Vodoun daVinci]

I need to add a couple things, then I have had my say. Number one: this is not a case of wild reporting- it didn't happen 50 years ago. Something unwholsome and un diagnosed has happened to make people mass murder their neighbors.

Number two: I'm a professional troubleshooter with 42 years of experience and have taught troubleshooting. Here is the root: we will not solve this by opinion or conjecture, politics, nor bans. We can't fix any problem/failure unless we correctly and positively diagnose the exact failure. And we have shit loads of opinions but have yet to discover what and why people are murdering innocents at a record pace. We have not even touched the surface of it. Something in our society is driving people so insane they need to kill innocents.

What. Went. Wrong.

VooDoo

 

[ArmyJerry]

Agree daVinchi, its like the MSM and their narratives and message pedaling is causing a lot of it in my book, the politics of racial and entitlement group think creates a pool of envy and hatred for fellow Americans based on nothing but thinking you are offended over a missed entitlement or a perceived affront where there is none. The politics of envy and entitlement is a weapon used by communists to fracture and destroy countries like ours around the world, real Alinsky.

This douche bag in Cali is probably a registered democrat Bernie supporter based on the lack of info coming out about him. The gov fears retaliation and they are right but their tools to suppress info and obscure patterns are not working anymore.

Buy more ammo.