Mosin Nagant Build question

gszeto99

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Anyone know a good smith who can help me chamber a barrel blank to 7.62x54r and rebarrel a mosin nagant rifle? Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you

Gene
 

Clark

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I have rebarreled a number of them, but I am not for hire.

From ~ 1891 to ~1942 they had inner C rings.
From ~1943 to ~ 1958 the did not have inner C rings.

How much would you have to pay for a flat bottomed action with inner C ring manufactured today?

Those are good actions.
I would use the Lapua brass.
I would get the floating pilot reamer.
I would consider the .308" groove barrels, not the .311" groove barrels, for bullet availability.
 

gszeto99

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Thanks for your replies thus far. Clark, it's a bummer you are not for hire. I plan to buy a lothar walther blank, rebarrel the mosin nagant change the bolt knob, and restock with the stock pillar and epoxy bedded. If you know anyone who has experience and can do a good job please do not hesitate to chime in.

Thank you

Gene
 

bohem

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I've done it, and I didn't limit the caliber to 54R, at one point I had one in 30-30 and 22-250. I was learning how to work on things and it was a cheap action to learn on if I screwed it up.

Currently I'm thinking about making one into a 45-70.

I agree with Clark, I would use a 308 barrel blank, the floating pilot reamer is generally better IMO, but it depends on exactly what you want to do with this. I turned a reamer from a piece of A2, and used it to cut several chambers, the all shoot just dandy.

If you want a sub MOA hammer you can get that by making your own reamer, if you want a 1/4 MOA stick go buy a reamer from Mr. Kiff or someone who makes them for a living.

As much as people like to knock the CR rifles, remember that 70 years ago people used them successfully to kill enemy soldiers at the ranges we all shoot matches with. I have a k31 that will first round hit a 8" square plate any day of the year at 400y. Open sights and surplus ammo. Just like the 9mm vs. 45 debate; whomever thinks that they're absolute junk go stand at 600y and let me take 5 shots at them.
 

gszeto99

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

The advice is greatly appreciated thus far but is there anyone for hire that will do the rebarrel job? I don't have a lathe so i can not chamber the new barrel blank and I do no have the tools to remove the old barrel. Please let me know if you are available for hire for this project.

Thank you

Gene
 

sinarms

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I have one doing nothing that I should make into a 45-70, how hard is it to get them to feed right?
 

bohem

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I don't have a reamer for the thing or an 01 license, I only carry a CR license and I think that might count as "business" which is expressly forbidden. Also, if it's gettng a new barrel in anything other than the 54R cartridge it's not CR anymore and I can't transfer it back. Sorry


To make the 45-70 feet you need to either open the bolt face up 30 thou or turn the rims back 30 thou, because of the thing ring on the bolt face I opted for trimming the rims back a little. The magazine is the tricky part, it requires some ability to form the sheet metal, but it isn't too much more than an afternoon worth of work. The round nose seem to make life easiest too feed from the magazine. Turning the rims on the 45-70 back instead of opening up the bolt face also facilitates feeding the cases from the magazine and running them in a stripper clip if you make that choice.
 

gszeto99

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Ok I going to try to change the post title since I am just getting people who are talking about their builds. I thank the people who gave me some insight on how they would work their own mosin nagants but let's not get sidetracked with people only talking about their own mosin nagant builds. <span style="font-weight: bold">I need a gunsmith for hire who is willing to work on rebarreling my mosin nagant.</span> That is the original intent for this listing. If you are a gunsmith for hire willing to work on my rifle please post here. If you know of a good trustworthy gunsmith for hire who is willing to work on a mosin nagant action, then please post his name and contact information.

Thank you

Gene
 

m48shooter

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

cliff and chuck huston 727 894 7981.... they are local boys who used to big in high power... they re-bbl my m48 and started me down this slippery slope... i know they work on the mn action...

hope it helps
 

carlile.ryan

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I am currently in the same boat looking for a gunsmith to rebarrel my MN with a Lothar Walther 7.62X54r long chamber, .308 dia fluted barrel? Was cliff and Chuck Huston help? Thanks
 

Clark

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I am in the process of doing two things with 91/30 sporterization that I have seen vague pics of on the internet:

1) Welding over the split rear bridge and moving the bolt handle to behind that point. This way there can be a scope mount behind the magazine.

2) Adapting a Timney aftermarket trigger with safety to fit.

The 91/30 collectors may want Tula Arsenal war years, but for my sporterizing, I look for mid 1942 or earlier for an inner stop ring.


Here is a pic of cut chambers and extractor relief cuts on the breeches of a 91/30 barrels, one made in 1943 by Russians [on the bottom] and one made by me in 2008 [on the top].
 

landcbeitner

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Nice work! Do you have any recomendations considering the strength of these actions? I hung a #5 contour fluted off mine chambered in 260 rem... I'm running pressures very low although I should be fine to run up pressures according to bolt thrust calculations.
 

Clark

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Thanks,
But I am not a real gunsmith.
I have only re barreled a couple dozen of my rifles in my life.

A real gunsmith that re barrels all the time would do a better job, and faster.

I have worked up 7.62x54R loads in a 91/30 until the bolt jammed.
The 260 Rem cannot get up to that kind of bolt thrust without loosening the primer pocket. The 260 case head is an 1889 7.65x53mm case head with large Boxer primer pocket. That kind of case head, with deep extractor groove, is only good for ~65kpsi.
The 7.62x54R case head has no extractor groove, and so is stronger, and the primer pocket does not get loose until pressure get much higher.
 

carlile.ryan

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Pressure wise I should be fine running .308 out of a 7.62X54r with an 8" twist? Local gunsmith thinks I'm crazy and need to take thermodynamics to understand pressure. lol

Any recommendations for gunsmiths to help me get this mounted up?
 

landcbeitner

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Thanks for the info... coupple more questions you might have some answers for...

Is there enough carbon in the steel to safely have the actions hardened? Are all the Nagant actons just case Hardened?

Mine was origionally somewhat experimental but it shoots so well I want to do whatever it takes to insure that I can use the rifle for the rest of my godforsaken life. I made a custom scope mount that's very solid, and I don't find filling in the rear bridge and moving the bolt handle back to be necessarry at all (got a Nightforce sitting on it now).
 

carlile.ryan

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

To that Lothar is willing to do the breach threading for me, or should that de done by the gunsmith that will mount the barrel?

Still no takers (gunsmiths) on my pleas for help.
 

Greg Langelius *

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Suggestion.

The problem with another party threading the shank is that normally, the shoulder would have to be adjusted for headspace purposes. It usually takes a trained 'smith and significant shop equipment to do this.

This is where the barrel nut feature of the basic Savage 110 action design can eliminate a major headache, because it makes the shoulder/headspace adjustment just that, an adjustment.

At this point, the crucial factor changes to be the protrusion measurement.

Greg
 

Clark

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

The 91/30 breech face and threads are about as hard as re barreling a 1903 Springfield.
It is harder than a Mauser [no extractor relief cut and a simple breech]
It is harder than a Rem700 [no extractor relief cut, but a stepped breech.]
It is easier than a Sav99 [two relief cuts and a stepped breech].
If the gunsmith has a lathe and a mill, he can almost certainly do it. Just start calling all the gun smiths and gun stores in your local yellow pages.
The extractor relief cut can be done by hand with a die grinder, files, or what ever. I do it on the mill.

The extractor relief cut must clock with the extractor sweep.
The barrel is threads and screwed into the receiver tight. The barrel is marked.
The barrel is removed and the extractor relief cut is made.




Here I am making an extractor relief cut with my mill on a Shilen barrel that I have chambered to 45/70 and putting on a 91/30 action.

I have put a barrel up against a stop in the mill vise and made a cut. Then raised the quill, and slightly rotated the barrel in the vise, and made another cut.

This is an easy way to do it. You put the old barrel in the vise, up against the stop, and tighten the vise. You adjust the quill and table until the end mill is flush. Raise the quill and put the new barrel in the vise. Lower the quill, raise the quill. Loosen the vise and rotate the new barrel a few degrees. Repeat until done.

This is a first day of shop class project. You can do it. Any gunsmith with a mill can do it.



This is my rotary table, my brother's mill, and a friend is putting a Springfield barrel on a 91/30. You don't need this kind of accuracy on a relief cut, unless you are a fanatic.

This 91/30 extractor relief cut is being made in a rotary table that has a through hole big enough for a barrel.
I got the rotary table at an auction, but most gunsmiths will not have one that large. Most gunsmiths could not lift it.

Notice the pipe wrench marks on the old barrel being used as the model:)


 

carlile.ryan

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Nice talked to Benchmark Rifles, and they mount my barrel!!! Finaly, 220-240gr justice about to come
 

landcbeitner

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Benchmark Rules! That's very cool, but I'm a little supprised. Ron told me he didn't want a bunch of Nagants comming in for rebarreling... but they do such a great job. I'm certian it will surpass your expectations. Mine shoots about as good as anything out there....

Already used in a competition and it's only been done a few weeks!
 

USMCj

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I would neck down Lapua 54R brass to 7mm and run 168 bergers out of it if I were you. It has enough boiler room to run them fast.
 
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carlile.ryan

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I must have made some impression. I think he seemed happy to help when I told him gunsmiths here in Reno wouldn't do it. I'm very excited and very happy to know that it is going to be done and done right. Thank you guys for all the help, I'll post pictures when I get it all done.
 

landcbeitner

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Yes... My Mosin is rebarreled by Benchmark in 260 rem... It's the funny looking rifle with the wood stock in the pic above. It shoots better than a Nagant should be allowed to shoot.
 

ar15is223

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

i would be awesome if you posted some close up detailed picture of that rifle. its really unique, it looks nice.
 

landcbeitner

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Not sure if you're asking me... mine's 260 not 270. It's not a necked down version of the origional cartridge (although that would be a good way to go (probably what I'd do if I had to do it again). I had the bolt face filled in to work with the standard .473" bolt face.
 

carlile.ryan

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

got it, I wanted to use the same cartridge but use a .308 bullet instead of the .311-.312 I apologise for not being clearer before in my question.
 

landcbeitner

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

No sweat. The dies I got for shooting the rifle with the origional barrel(Lee)were actually were set up for .308" bullets (I think many 7.62x54R dies are that way). I just sized the brass and loaded. Mine was origionally a .308" barrel (some of the other Finn Nagants were as well).
 

carlile.ryan

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I have heard that, I have Lee dies as well, should be good to reload then. Thanks for the help.
 

jwSubMOA

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Hello there!Love your rifle!I have a pile of "junk" Mosin Nagant hex actions and have built a few weird rifles with them in the past.I read your build page,very interesting but may I point out a few things?The MN action,particularly the old hex actions like yours,are very strong and rigid.The rear bridge adds little to the action rigidity.These actions are very thick and the left sidewall adds alot of strength to the action.They do have a third lug,the bolt rib that the handle attaches to.I really like your scope mount.I have seen a couple of heavy barrel rifles in 300WM on MN actions and there were no problems.If I can find the parts,I have a replacement bolt head that I made with a standard bolt face,I'll try to post pics.Someone makes an adjustable trigger for them but I can't remember who,Bold,Timney?I wish those stocks were available,they rule.Anyway great job!
 

Broadsword

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Anyone mind if I drag this thread back out? I'm looking at a project Mosin Nagant that will require a re-barrel as well. What I intend to do is have a rifle built that, from outward appearance looks like a WWII era PE sniper. On the inside I want to have a match quality barrel set up for 54R shooting .308 bullets, one of these replacement triggers http://www.combathunting.com and a professional bedding job.
I've already made arrangements to send the bolt out to be reworked and bead blasted by this guy http://www.angelfire.com/gundam/boltman/bolt_work/ and will be looking closer at this base and mount http://www.accumounts.com/
I don't know much about the repro PE scopes so I'm not sure what route I'll take with the glass. I have an old Unertl 4X I might try. Anyone else done this? Any opinions or advise?
Thanks,
Broadsword
 

The_Hoff

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

Sounds like a good project, I had this idea when i first started shooting got the mosin but smithing and parts were too pricy at that time.

a few tips:

1. You will need a good smith to remove the old barrel, and too rebarrel the action (I am not sure of too many that will work on nagants though)

2. For your trigger I believe timney makes a match grade adjustable trigger for nagants. It goes for about 80 to 90 dollars but has very good reviews and is from a quality manufacturer.

3. Do LOTS of research on reproduction PU scopes. Many on the market today are low quality piles of crap. Lots of into at
www.7.62x54r.net on PU scopes and how to get a good one. Also has lots of info on the rifles themselves.

4. Ammo will have to be reloaded! Mil-surp ammo is has poor consistency and not accurate at all it is also corrosive and just nasty stuff. get good boxer primed brass and handload your own rounds (no use spending good money to fix up a mosin just to ruin it with inferior ammo) dies might get pricey however since it is a strange caliber to reload for. Lee has a hand loading kit for this caliber but presses make life a lot easier.

5. If you do get this completed it should be an awesome rifle and might just get me off my lazy a$$ to finish mine! just remember have fun with it. even if you can only do a little at a time it should be a fun project rifle.

** on an ending note I will say I love my nagant, just the history in these rifles is amazing and a quality rebuild would be an awesome tribute to these war relics.

- The_Hoff
 

MTFalconer

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Hello there!Love your rifle!I have a pile of "junk" Mosin Nagant hex actions and have built a few weird rifles with them in the past.I read your build page,very interesting but may I point out a few things?The MN action,particularly the old hex actions like yours,are very strong and rigid.The rear bridge adds little to the action rigidity.These actions are very thick and the left sidewall adds alot of strength to the action.They do have a third lug,the bolt rib that the handle attaches to.I really like your scope mount.I have seen a couple of heavy barrel rifles in 300WM on MN actions and there were no problems.If I can find the parts,I have a replacement bolt head that I made with a standard bolt face,I'll try to post pics.Someone makes an adjustable trigger for them but I can't remember who,Bold,Timney?I wish those stocks were available,they rule.Anyway great job!
Sorry to drag this thread back out but did you say 300WM? I pulled my MN out of the safe(finn MN, hex receiver) and a 300wm snaps right into the bolt face. Hmmmmm...I would wonder about the pressures of a factory 300 wm on the bolt face. Anyone got anything on this?
 

Clark

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Is this thread resurrected?
I just build 223 Mosin Nagant and a 7mmRemMag Mosin Nagant and took them to the range 3 weeks ago.
Those were with old Rem700 take off barrels.

Today I am working on a 300 Win Mag with a Krieger barrel.

Here is a vid of how I get 3.34" 7mmRemMag] unfired cartridges to eject
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZp6R2sim7k223 Mosin Nagant 3-15-2015.JPG7mmRemMag Mosin Nagant 3-15-2014.JPGInletting Mosin Nagant stock 3-14-2014.jpg
 

jeremiah_the_gunslinger

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hey man im gonna be installing a barrel on a mosin soon. never done it before and was wondering how you blueprinted the barrel to get correct headspace and everything
 

Clark

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Mosin Nagant barrel thread drawing from old out of print book 3-21-2014.jpgMosin Nagnat Rem700 7mmRM take off barrel conversion 1-27-2014 gamma reduction.jpg

It is like any other rifle.
Rem700, 98 Mauser, and Sav110 do not need extractor relief cuts on the breech.
But some rifles do, and the Mosin Nagant is one of them.