Mosin Nagant Build question

sarco789

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Jun 8, 2020
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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I have rebarreled a number of them, but I am not for hire.

From ~ 1891 to ~1942 they had inner C rings.
From ~1943 to ~ 1958 the did not have inner C rings.

How much would you have to pay for a flat bottomed action with inner C ring manufactured today?

Those are good actions.
I would use the Lapua brass.
I would get the floating pilot reamer.
I would consider the .308" groove barrels, not the .311" groove barrels, for bullet availability.
Please tell me if you know whether the Finns, or more specifically, the Civil Guard, made any attempts at re-hardening their Mosin receivers. Thanks in advance.
 

Wannashootit

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Not that I'm aware, was never needed.
To be clear, the receivers were not case-hardened AKA Mausers.

Check the MN forum at Gunboards for more info on Finn conversions.

When re-barreling be sure to carefully inspect for cracks as with any milsurp. I did have one once that had a crack straight through the bottom of the receiver/action screw hole that wasn't visible until after blasting. I suspect the barrel was overtorqued when it was built and luckily never let go.
 

sarco789

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Thank you so much. My smith said he would blast twice before refinishing/rebarreling, so that’s covered. Another question: could it hurt to re-harden? Thanks again
 

Wannashootit

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Honestly, I don't see a reason to do so.
Unlike some other milsurps of questionable alloy/heat treat esp during wartime production MN's did not have this issue. The most prolific rifle ever built to my knowledge with nearly 40 million produced.

Rebarreling these is mostly straightforward, the extractor cut is a bit of a pain in the ass, and earlier receive rs with the inner C ring may require a relief cut on the breech of the barrel if there's wear to the lug abutments.
 

sarco789

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Jun 8, 2020
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Honestly, I don't see a reason to do so.
Unlike some other milsurps of questionable alloy/heat treat esp during wartime production MN's did not have this issue. The most prolific rifle ever built to my knowledge with nearly 40 million produced.

Rebarreling these is mostly straightforward, the extractor cut is a bit of a pain in the ass, and earlier receive rs with the inner C ring may require a relief cut on the breech of the barrel if there's wear to the lug abutments.
All right
Honestly, I don't see a reason to do so.
Unlike some other milsurps of questionable alloy/heat treat esp during wartime production MN's did not have this issue. The most prolific rifle ever built to my knowledge with nearly 40 million produced.

Rebarreling these is mostly straightforward, the extractor cut is a bit of a pain in the ass, and earlier receive rs with the inner C ring may require a relief cut on the breech of the barrel if there's wear to the lug abutments.
All right, Wannashootit, you convinced me.
I’m attempting to follow the methods of the Finns as closely as possible, and didn’t know whether they did anything else before re-barreling. Thanks for the reassurance.
 

Disfunctional_Engineer

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Re: Mosin Nagant Build question

I've done it, and I didn't limit the caliber to 54R, at one point I had one in 30-30 and 22-250. I was learning how to work on things and it was a cheap action to learn on if I screwed it up.

Currently I'm thinking about making one into a 45-70.

I agree with Clark, I would use a 308 barrel blank, the floating pilot reamer is generally better IMO, but it depends on exactly what you want to do with this. I turned a reamer from a piece of A2, and used it to cut several chambers, the all shoot just dandy.

If you want a sub MOA hammer you can get that by making your own reamer, if you want a 1/4 MOA stick go buy a reamer from Mr. Kiff or someone who makes them for a living.

As much as people like to knock the CR rifles, remember that 70 years ago people used them successfully to kill enemy soldiers at the ranges we all shoot matches with. I have a k31 that will first round hit a 8" square plate any day of the year at 400y. Open sights and surplus ammo. Just like the 9mm vs. 45 debate; whomever thinks that they're absolute junk go stand at 600y and let me take 5 shots at them.
If you don't mind me asking a question what did you do to harden your reamer? I tried to do this once for a home brew9mm reamer and it didn't seem to harden correctly.
 

sarco789

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Jun 8, 2020
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I saw a bolt action in 45-70 up for auction awhile back. I believe it was an Enfield.
 

bohem

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If you don't mind me asking a question what did you do to harden your reamer? I tried to do this once for a home brew9mm reamer and it didn't seem to harden correctly.
I got some drill rod and heated it up til cherry red, then dropped it in a can of motor oil.

Normalized it by sticking it in a toaster oven on "toast" for about 30 mins

It worked OK. I wouldn't do it that way these days. That was back when I had a lot more time than disposable income.
 

sarco789

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I entered here with the question of whether I should do anything about the level of hardness of my hexagonal Mosin receiver before building it into a modified Finnish M28/30. My question concerning hardness has been answered.
I did the re-design of the project, but I’m farming the work out to a gunsmith and a woodworker. Is anyone here still interested in what I’m doing, or is this forum purely for the hands-on type?
 

Disfunctional_Engineer

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I entered here with the question of whether I should do anything about the level of hardness of my hexagonal Mosin receiver before building it into a modified Finnish M28/30. My question concerning hardness has been answered.
I did the re-design of the project, but I’m farming the work out to a gunsmith and a woodworker. Is anyone here still interested in what I’m doing, or is this forum purely for the hands-on type?
Post pics anyways. Should be a fun build.

I got some drill rod and heated it up til cherry red, then dropped it in a can of motor oil.

Normalized it by sticking it in a toaster oven on "toast" for about 30 mins

It worked OK. I wouldn't do it that way these days. That was back when I had a lot more time than disposable income.
I did 9mm which is a bit simpler than a bottle neck cartridge. Shame that I ran into issues with the hardening. I need to fire my Atlas up and cut another one.
 
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sarco789

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Don’t know how long it will be in the shop, but I’ll document its progress here asap. I stripped the rust and finish myself before taking it to the shop, but unfortunately didn’t take any before shots.
 
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Wannashootit

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The Finns did produce limited barrels with a .308 groove diameter.
For handloaders, it's advantageous to use a .308 vs .311 barrel due to the huge selection of bullets available.

The .45-70 is an easy conversion, and feeds with minor modification to the internal box mag. Great hog-sticker :)
They were also commercially modified to .30-06 (in a manner widely regarded as unsafe by setting back the barrel and rechambering) by Bannerman back in the day. High dolla collectibles...

Good luck with it.
 

sarco789

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Jun 8, 2020
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Don’t know how long it will be in the shop, but I’ll document its progress here asap. I stripped the rust and finish myself before taking it to the shop, but unfortunately didn’t take any before shots.
The Finns did produce limited barrels with a .308 groove diameter.
For handloaders, it's advantageous to use a .308 vs .311 barrel due to the huge selection of bullets available.

The .45-70 is an easy conversion, and feeds with minor modification to the internal box mag. Great hog-sticker :)
They were also commercially modified to .30-06 (in a manner widely regarded as unsafe by setting back the barrel and rechambering) by Bannerman back in the day. High dolla collectibles...

Good luck with it.
For a few years now I’ve been looking for a platform for the 6.5x47 Lapua. What would be involved in the Mosin conversion? Bolt face, magazine follower and barrel, right?
 

James40004

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Understand, it's a neat unknown wildcat. I want one someday. Close to 6.5 prc speed from a mosin.
James
 

sarco789

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Jun 8, 2020
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I just had a disappointing phone conversation with a barrel manufacturer who makes barrels threaded for Mosins but not in 6.5x47 Lapua. I need some input here from some Mosin builders with experience, please.
I’ve read about unusual calibers like 45-70 and 30-06. If they’re do-able, seems to me that a lighter caliber like 6.5 would be easy by comparison. It’s just a matter of properly ramping the chamber and modifying the bolt face and mag follower - correct? Or is there more to it? Thanks in advance.
 

sarco789

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Jun 8, 2020
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The Finns did produce limited barrels with a .308 groove diameter.
For handloaders, it's advantageous to use a .308 vs .311 barrel due to the huge selection of bullets available.

The .45-70 is an easy conversion, and feeds with minor modification to the internal box mag. Great hog-sticker :)
They were also commercially modified to .30-06 (in a manner widely regarded as unsafe by setting back the barrel and rechambering) by Bannerman back in the day. High dolla collectibles...

Good luck with it.
Wannashootit - I just purchased another Mosin pattern receiver cheap.
I’ve been salivating over the idea of loading and shooting 6.5x47 Lapua for some time now, but haven’t been able to decide on the platform. Why couldn’t I use the Mosin receiver? Cut threads, set up the feed ramp, alter the bolt and modify the mag follower - isn’t that all that’s involved? I wanna hear from someone experienced at making Mosin rifles in different calibers...
 

Disfunctional_Engineer

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Wannashootit - I just purchased another Mosin pattern receiver cheap.
I’ve been salivating over the idea of loading and shooting 6.5x47 Lapua for some time now, but haven’t been able to decide on the platform. Why couldn’t I use the Mosin receiver? Cut threads, set up the feed ramp, alter the bolt and modify the mag follower - isn’t that all that’s involved? I wanna hear from someone experienced at making Mosin rifles in different calibers...
I would think the interruptor/ejector could need sime mods too but just a guess and it depends on the case shape.
 

Wannashootit

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I just had a disappointing phone conversation with a barrel manufacturer who makes barrels threaded for Mosins but not in 6.5x47 Lapua. I need some input here from some Mosin builders with experience, please.
I’ve read about unusual calibers like 45-70 and 30-06. If they’re do-able, seems to me that a lighter caliber like 6.5 would be easy by comparison. It’s just a matter of properly ramping the chamber and modifying the bolt face and mag follower - correct? Or is there more to it? Thanks in advance.
McGowen, I assume...

Anyway, you can chamber and fit the barrel, and modify the boltface/bend the extractor for just about anything.
Getting it to feed from the mag is whole 'nother issue. I did a .44 mag once (pic below)- but it was a single-shot. Didn't even need to bush the boltface, but the case was way to short to mag feed. Guy just wanted something unique, for some target plinking (not that it wouldn't put a substantial hole in game).
The mag is single stack, and shaped specifically for the 54R case. Often the sides of the mag need to be cut out/modified- as well as some stock work inside- to try to make it work.
As noted, the ejector/interrupter would likely also need to be modified.
Google "Bannerman Mosin-Nagant" and you'll get an idea of what was done for the '06.

Fun and challenging for a guy that DIY's his own rifles- but when you get beyond "fit and chamber" into all the other shit needed it becomes an expensive proposition to pay a smith for the work, especially if he hasn't done it before and needs to spend the time to "figger it out".

If you want an interesting- and competitive- conversion/wildcat consider the 6.5 x 54R. Won the Olympic Biathlon. Will build one for myself if I can ever find the time, Manson has a print for it.

 

sarco789

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Jun 8, 2020
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McGowen, I assume...

Anyway, you can chamber and fit the barrel, and modify the boltface/bend the extractor for just about anything.
Getting it to feed from the mag is whole 'nother issue. I did a .44 mag once (pic below)- but it was a single-shot. Didn't even need to bush the boltface, but the case was way to short to mag feed. Guy just wanted something unique, for some target plinking (not that it wouldn't put a substantial hole in game).
The mag is single stack, and shaped specifically for the 54R case. Often the sides of the mag need to be cut out/modified- as well as some stock work inside- to try to make it work.
As noted, the ejector/interrupter would likely also need to be modified.
Google "Bannerman Mosin-Nagant" and you'll get an idea of what was done for the '06.

Fun and challenging for a guy that DIY's his own rifles- but when you get beyond "fit and chamber" into all the other shit needed it becomes an expensive proposition to pay a smith for the work, especially if he hasn't done it before and needs to spend the time to "figger it out".

If you want an interesting- and competitive- conversion/wildcat consider the 6.5 x 54R. Won the Olympic Biathlon. Will build one for myself if I can ever find the time, Manson has a print for it.

Wannashootit, thanks again. Lots of good info. Your guess was right.
But I had a reassuring conversation with my pro today. He fixed a Swedish Nagant Revolver for me and wanted to update me on it. I took the opportunity to run my Mosin 6.5x47 Lapua proposal past him and he basically said he’d do it. It’ll be awhile before he starts it, but it’s a go.