Account HACKING will defeat most efforts to block scammers.
Does that happen here?
Does that happen here?
- Thread starter Lowlight
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It's going to have to be a multipronged solution.
-Waiting period for new members
-Post count requirements
-Possibly accounts that have to be "approved " by an existing member whos on the approved list already?
-Badge system approvals to make post or pm?
-Require 2 step verification for members?
I'm sure there are others we can come up with concerning how names are allowed to be created(ie: no punctuation ect)
There's just going to have to be a list of things like this that can be implemented and done so with rules for the system to follow.
-Waiting period for new members
-Post count requirements
-Possibly accounts that have to be "approved " by an existing member whos on the approved list already?
-Badge system approvals to make post or pm?
-Require 2 step verification for members?
I'm sure there are others we can come up with concerning how names are allowed to be created(ie: no punctuation ect)
There's just going to have to be a list of things like this that can be implemented and done so with rules for the system to follow.
It just boggles my mind how hard and persistent people will be just to defraud another party. Imagine if they spent their time and energy on something truly beneficial.
Yeah, there used to be a 100 post rule. But, that just led to a bunch of “Cool.” “Wow.” “Awesome.” Etc. posts in the other fora. At the end, these posts were often followed by “legit” members asking “only X posts to go until we see what you’re selling in the PX. Can’t wait…”
You gotta work real hard to be this lazy…
Nigerian Prince get rich schemes.
Add a "Seller" big color box any time the thread originator posts on the PX thread. Require responses in threads.
That way, the fake person won't have the color/label/box.
That way, the fake person won't have the color/label/box.
I like the “I’ll take it” button idea. Like a buy now on an auction site.
That automatically marks the sale as pending and automatically starts a conversation with the OP. No info about the buyer goes in the sale ad
That automatically marks the sale as pending and automatically starts a conversation with the OP. No info about the buyer goes in the sale ad
This is good, but not sure we can add it, but I CAN Ask them for better method if they have it and just build it better
Those that remember the “Ukrainian” that shall not be named, will remember that he was (by all accounts, and with assistance of legit design and financial assistance) on the cusp of releasing a truly innovative rifle. But, in the 11th hour, he did what all conmen do. He revealed the con and ran away with the cash. He likely could have built a business and developed a legit revenue stream, but to these ___ the lure of “fast money” is too strong.
I would totally invest in a complete solution like a private, "I'll take it button" or see what sales system they have we can incorporate, I have no problem investing a better solution if they have it
I like the time stamped "Pending" idea.
That wouldn't help with the fake account PMs though unfortunately
And I don't think people would want to post payment and shipping data publicly
@Lowlight
Here's something a bit weird.
I was just looking through the PX and noticed the wind sail tails for sale with a newer ad.
Just out of curiosity, I clicked on the sellers name and it popped up with a period at the end of the user name.
I figured I would post that bit of weirdness just so you're aware of it.
Once I got back on this thread, I did the same with the first unread post.
It didn't add the period...
Weird.
Here's something a bit weird.
I was just looking through the PX and noticed the wind sail tails for sale with a newer ad.
Just out of curiosity, I clicked on the sellers name and it popped up with a period at the end of the user name.
I figured I would post that bit of weirdness just so you're aware of it.
Once I got back on this thread, I did the same with the first unread post.
It didn't add the period...
Weird.
Bottom line is, you can’t fix stupid. Buyers have to do their homework.
Sorry I can’t help with a solution.
I post “I’ll take it” on purpose just to bait them in.
Sorry I can’t help with a solution.
I post “I’ll take it” on purpose just to bait them in.
I was thinking of putting up a couple WTB's for the same reason, something rare and hard to find.
A small, suitcase nuke. Have cash.
Something to that effect would be a large, bright colored banner across the page when PM'ing someone with ZERO feedback.
I abide by the rules and have not posted any WTB adds, but would like to see this rescinded. I'm willing to take responsibility if I allow myself to get scammed. The Hide is a great place to find exotic stuff. I can spot a scam and feel pretty confident in answering a WTB between phone calls, image searches, buyer feedback/presence on the hide and additional photo's etc. Before the prohibition on WTB's, I posted a WTB for an M96 Robinson Arms Expeditionary rifle. Fellow answered the add and mentioned he was looking for a Parker Hale 85...even trade worked out great.
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I'm not sure if you are an evil genius, hilarious, or an evil bastard, maybe all three, but that is awesome. Did he 1SG and your buddy ever figure it out?
For every one of you there are 10-50 whining crybabies that can’t see the steal over the “screaming deal” they’re about to get on the wonder widget they desire…
I have no idea how this is set up on the back end, but it works really well.
Screen shot below, see the buy it tag upper right on the add. Click that and it puts you directly in contact with the OP & I think records a copy with time stamp for the back end.
Know one knows who clicked buy it accept the OP & mods.
Haven't seen a single example of this scam on that sight FWIW.
Edit: questions about the add etc just go in thread same as here.
- Nov 3, 2010
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After a while they figure it out. Maybe it was me laughing so loud that gave it away?
That looks like you are seeing the tail end of the underline that is added when you click on a username. The underline is broken by the tail of the “y” as the last letter of the username. Looks like but is not actually a period.
If you type @ then the username it will pull up the potential users. In this case the guy you tagged above is the only one in here. No period
I type my name in once in a while when I’m selling stuff. Just to see if a duplicate account pops up
Example
As soon as I post "I'll take it", I start a conversation with the person that is selling the item.
Any other person that would send me a message without responding to my original message, must be a scammer.
Any other person that would send me a message without responding to my original message, must be a scammer.
What you’re looking at is an interrupted underline not a period.
I wouldn’t just shut it down. It generates $ for the site and gives all of us a chance to try new thing, upgrade and what not without having to buy new. You can try 10 different chassis options and only loose on shipping costs basically by buying in the px.
Frank has said a lot that it’s up to us to look out for ourselves. He’s just helping out by posting this thread and pursuing this. He certainly can just tell people to pound sand when they get had
This site is the best on the internet for knowledge and high end gear. 3/4 of what I buy for shooting comes off this site alone
The reason the scammers are using the method they are is not many people accept PayPal G&S. If they did the scammers would switch over to buyers and start scamming the sellers. PayPal almost always sides with the buyer and will lock things down if the word gun is even mentioned (gun sale or not).
@Lowlight
There are a lot of options that have been mentioned, but I think most of them have the following problems:
1. they are only going to make the scammers a bit slower and switch tactics
2. they probably will mostly just cause annoyance or are way too much stupidity and hassle for legitimate sellers / buyers
3. They will probably entail lots of admin work going forward
Here is my two cents worth of suggestions
Make sure the ability to hide your profile is disabled including older accounts.
Change the site programming so that any account that is new, shows for the first 90 days or such a big highlighted red banner flag that says Unknown New Account. It could also display the same message for zero posts accounts.
Make it a rule and a sticky in the PM that all buyers and sellers MUST complete a phone call or preferably video call before finalizing the sale and before funds are exchanged and payment details must be discussed during that video call. If either party refuses that then it's walk away time. (if you can access this website you can do a video call on your phone or laptop).
If scammers know that on both the buyer and seller side, they are going to be forced to do a video chat, that's going to make them want to move on.
Folks that choose to ignore that and are in a huge hurry will still be easy prey but the scammers will find things way harder.
The above won't fix every problem but it will do a pretty good job of fixing the scammer gangs and their various scams on the buyer / seller side, ripping people off for either money or items.
There are a lot of options that have been mentioned, but I think most of them have the following problems:
1. they are only going to make the scammers a bit slower and switch tactics
2. they probably will mostly just cause annoyance or are way too much stupidity and hassle for legitimate sellers / buyers
3. They will probably entail lots of admin work going forward
Here is my two cents worth of suggestions
Make sure the ability to hide your profile is disabled including older accounts.
Change the site programming so that any account that is new, shows for the first 90 days or such a big highlighted red banner flag that says Unknown New Account. It could also display the same message for zero posts accounts.
Make it a rule and a sticky in the PM that all buyers and sellers MUST complete a phone call or preferably video call before finalizing the sale and before funds are exchanged and payment details must be discussed during that video call. If either party refuses that then it's walk away time. (if you can access this website you can do a video call on your phone or laptop).
If scammers know that on both the buyer and seller side, they are going to be forced to do a video chat, that's going to make them want to move on.
Folks that choose to ignore that and are in a huge hurry will still be easy prey but the scammers will find things way harder.
The above won't fix every problem but it will do a pretty good job of fixing the scammer gangs and their various scams on the buyer / seller side, ripping people off for either money or items.
I'm curious if it's possible to code a widget that a prospective buyer can click 'I'll Take It' that automatically sends a PM to the seller and marks the thread pending anonymously. This circumvents the public announcement of it being taken by the member, marks the thread so other prospective buyers see its sold pending funds, and notifies the seller of the offer. Shouldn't be too hard to code, solves all problems.
Understand, but was thinking more along a stand alone, nation wide service.
Just a couple of questions...
But How about no name changes at all, whatsoever? Should be simple to simply not allow an account to change a name once account is created. Hey, you mis-type your name when you join? Too bad. That's your name or go away.
Another (sort of suggested above) idea is back to the certain number of posts. Can the post count be linked to 'access' to the PX. Can't get in without 500 posts. Maybe exception is commercial members, but to become one you have to provide a store front web site, vetting, etc. I think Commerical Supporter is a different price point and so the extra vetting can be part of the 'value' of a commercial supporter. Of course, if this can't be automated it's moot. But if the software only unlocks the PX after a certain post count threshold then that may be helpful.
Last... maybe a simple message could appear on or with every ad in the PX? Any post in the PX gets a window popping open saying "Verify the seller. Verify the buyer. Check the exact syntax of the handle. Arrange a phone call. Request a picture of the item next to your Private Message." It would be a bit annoying and intrusive. But if you want to buy something, clicking away a pop-up telling you the next steps to not get scammed... is at least better than getting scammed. Again, who knows if the software forum allows it.
I'll ask my buddy who runs the S&W forum how he deals with it... I think you've talked to him before.
Cheers,
Sirhr
But How about no name changes at all, whatsoever? Should be simple to simply not allow an account to change a name once account is created. Hey, you mis-type your name when you join? Too bad. That's your name or go away.
Another (sort of suggested above) idea is back to the certain number of posts. Can the post count be linked to 'access' to the PX. Can't get in without 500 posts. Maybe exception is commercial members, but to become one you have to provide a store front web site, vetting, etc. I think Commerical Supporter is a different price point and so the extra vetting can be part of the 'value' of a commercial supporter. Of course, if this can't be automated it's moot. But if the software only unlocks the PX after a certain post count threshold then that may be helpful.
Last... maybe a simple message could appear on or with every ad in the PX? Any post in the PX gets a window popping open saying "Verify the seller. Verify the buyer. Check the exact syntax of the handle. Arrange a phone call. Request a picture of the item next to your Private Message." It would be a bit annoying and intrusive. But if you want to buy something, clicking away a pop-up telling you the next steps to not get scammed... is at least better than getting scammed. Again, who knows if the software forum allows it.
I'll ask my buddy who runs the S&W forum how he deals with it... I think you've talked to him before.
Cheers,
Sirhr
Maybe you missed that they are largely organized crime syndicates. This is their job and they make way more money
this way than any legitimate business venture. It may not be beneficial to others, but they care not.And how do you propose that this Rule be enforced? Because he said so?
He already made a rule regarding WTB ads and you see how well that one is followed.
If theres no gun involved, why mention gun. If they wont go with G&S just walk away. Its not worth the headache. Pretty simple.
For sales, a simple partial solution is make the rule the seller NEVER contacts the buyer first, and anyone doing so should be assumed a scammer. But we know how well things like that work out.
Not a cure-all but having post counts, join dates, and feedback showing would help.
I check feedback before I'll contact a seller. As it is now, yea it takes a couple clicks but not everyone can be bothered with that little bit of effort, though. If they have their info blocked, fuck 'em, I move on.
I check feedback before I'll contact a seller. As it is now, yea it takes a couple clicks but not everyone can be bothered with that little bit of effort, though. If they have their info blocked, fuck 'em, I move on.
Could you as Administrator send out a blanket ‘l will take it’ test message to every for sale thread in the PX, daily to smoke the con artists ability to pounce on that phrase? Maybe short term until a better system of checks can be initiated?
So if we are talking about the current problem of spoofing usernames...
Don't we already have the mechanism in place? The feedback system? Everyone's feedback is in big bold numbers under their username in every conversation. Is it too much to ask for a buyer to look to the left and see the accounts feedback? Even click on it to do a quick review? And if it is 0-0-0 every spidey sense you have should tell you to be careful with this seller.
I dunno, maybe I am misunderstanding the current scam.
Don't we already have the mechanism in place? The feedback system? Everyone's feedback is in big bold numbers under their username in every conversation. Is it too much to ask for a buyer to look to the left and see the accounts feedback? Even click on it to do a quick review? And if it is 0-0-0 every spidey sense you have should tell you to be careful with this seller.
I dunno, maybe I am misunderstanding the current scam.
Part of the issue,
You have to let new people BUY, it's not just a Selling Issue, but a BUY issue as well
yes these guys are spoofing accounts to get paid, but you cannot prevent people from buying
Also some of the accounts are started pre_Spoofed, they are not all changing the account to meet the user name, they make new accounts and not every account is flagged.
I suppose we can approve new accounts every day, but it's anywhere from 20 to 50 a day, that said, the stuff our system catches is about 75% when the system flags the email (This is mainly do the reports). if the account is simply banned it's one set of rules, if I can SPAM It that is another set of rules that will find them quicker and easier
If people were able to see the user is a fake up front we can immediately report them and isolate the account, but guys are not doing that. I can find 10 accounts links, because I know what I'm looking at, and lookin for, however members are NOT looking at all and dont' see the 0 post count or ' on the end of the user name
You have to let new people BUY, it's not just a Selling Issue, but a BUY issue as well
yes these guys are spoofing accounts to get paid, but you cannot prevent people from buying
Also some of the accounts are started pre_Spoofed, they are not all changing the account to meet the user name, they make new accounts and not every account is flagged.
I suppose we can approve new accounts every day, but it's anywhere from 20 to 50 a day, that said, the stuff our system catches is about 75% when the system flags the email (This is mainly do the reports). if the account is simply banned it's one set of rules, if I can SPAM It that is another set of rules that will find them quicker and easier
If people were able to see the user is a fake up front we can immediately report them and isolate the account, but guys are not doing that. I can find 10 accounts links, because I know what I'm looking at, and lookin for, however members are NOT looking at all and dont' see the 0 post count or ' on the end of the user name
Capital punishment? After being assraped, of course.
I think you should impose any buyers or sellers should provide a copy of their DL to the seller or buyer. I am pretty sure that will fix a lot these issues with a sticky note of their forum name.
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