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New GAP Extreme Hunter in 6.5 SAUM

A10XRIFLE said:
Guys Whidden Gunworks sells die sets for the 6.5 SAUM the resizer and seater are based off our reamer so they should be perfect!! Another great source for this cartridge.


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George,
Do you use their dies? How do they compare with Redding Comp dies? Just give us a little info for those that have never used Whidden Dies! I have been looking for an excuse to order their Pointing Die Set so maybe I throw these dies in the order?


Thanks boss man!
 
A10XRIFLE said:
It's plenty safe. Retumbo is slower so using the same 61 grain charge on the 140's will be fine. 63 on the 130's.


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Thanks, I didn't want to take the chance ruining my new Norma 300 SAUM brass like I did with some Norma 6.5-284 brass which was blowing primer pockets a grain lighter than Lapua 6.5-284 brass.

and for the Whidden die tip.
 
I placed a deposit on a 6.5 SAUM Nontypical before Christmas. I hope the rifle shows up in time for spring bear season but that may be a little optimistic.

I could not find any 140 grain hybrids forsale. I assume the hunting VLD loads would be similar?
 
Because the Reamer change seems to have a lot of guy’s concerned I thought I would measure different bullets to the lands in both chambers for everyone so everyone can understand the need for the change.
Measurements are COAL to the lands
Case: Rem 6.5 SAUM 4S

Old Reamer Most rifles built had this chamber through July of 2013

140 Berger Hybrid 2.960
140 JLK 2.965
130 JLK 2.965
130 Berger VLD 2.910
140 AMAX 2.880

New Reamer after July or 2013

140 Berger Hybrid 2.920
140 JLK 2.925
130 JLK 2.925
130 Berger VLD 2.860
140 AMAX 2.830

Basically a .040 - .050 depending on type of bullet
 
psinclair said:
2.930" COAL
2.185" BTO

How long was the wait for those?
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Pat,
I ordered the 130 JLKs in November and that was during there run on the 130 JLKs. Swampy said all orders would filled but would have few left. I received them right
before Christmas. I should of bought more. Swampy told me he would do another run early in the year and to test them ASAP and get another order in.

The 130 JLK looks a lot like the "old" 130 Berger VLD? (bearing surface/meplate) which also have around the .595-600 BC I believe. I have few of those left as well.

130 JLKs look very promising from what some of you guys are posting.

Thanks Pat,

Michael
 
I have ordered a seat of whiddon dies, can somebody please tell me what bushings I need for both 7mm and 300 saum brass for the no turn reamer? Thanks
 
psinclair said:
630m001.jpg


They "drill".
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Off the 6.5saum topic but holding onto the Berger topic. I was curious what you think of , or experienced with the 95-105 Hunting VLD Berger in .243 . I have a Remington SPS .243 varmit model 26 inch barrel. I think I got lucky with this barrels short range accuracy as it drives Federal factory 85 Sierra bthp at about 3/8 inch at 100 yards. I've dropped 3 dear with this bullet. The farthest being a 4x4 buck in MT at 256 yards. The others were 150 yards and 248 yards. Not a huge fan of the Sierra but the 3 deer were DRT so my complaints are minimal and or would like a little tougher bullet with better BC. I don't know how accurate this factory barrel will be past these ranges because I have never practiced with it beyond these ranges . I would certainly like to take this rifle out farther and use the Berger's instead. I will send it into GAP when my 6.5 saum is done for some modifications like fluting the barrel and bolt, obviously a new stock, and inspecting the action. I was curious if its twist rate of 9.25 ( Remmingtons website specs read ) is the correct twist that I would want to be dumping a lot of coin into this barreled action for these bullet weights of 95-105 . I would use this rifle to punch paper , deer ( 2nd in line behind my future 6.5 saum ) and little critters and have it ready for my kids to shoot ( currently ages 7 and 8 ) ..............................They will have to wait to shoot the 6.5 , LOL
 
Read the WHOLE thread! This rifle is unbelievably exciting, I'd love to drink the kool-aid, but unfortunately cannot possibly pay the cover charge yet, guess I'll start saving, and see what happens with the brass from a major manufacturer situation. I REALLY hope George finds a way to make this caliber go big. Good luck this week George!!!!
 
I shot them out of my 8 twist bbl and they shot well at 3000 fps. I have an 8.5 twist bbl as well and shot one group so far. First two were touching and the third landed about 3/4" low. I am guessing that it was me. I am trying to get out to shoot again if the wind would quit blowing. We've had 35 mph winds with 60mph gusts for the last 4 days!!
 
A10XRIFLE said:
Retumbo , Use the same amounts as H1000
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George,

I know H1000 is de rigeur but - temperature sensitivity of ball powders notwithstanding - have you tested Ramshot Magnum or Accurate MagPro for use in the 4S? My QL runs show that keeping under 56kpsi Magnum matches H1000 and MagPro gives a tad more velocity than H1000. Just wondering.

Steve
 
I know you were addressing George but I found the same thing on QL. I have used Ramshot magnum almost exclusively with both of mine. Ramshot line of powders are also surprisingly temp stable.
 
CPGFAN said:
I know you were addressing George but I found the same thing on QL. I have used Ramshot magnum almost exclusively with both of mine. Ramshot line of powders are also surprisingly temp stable.
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Thanks for your insights, CPGFAN.

When you say "both of mine" in your reply, do you mean both of your rifles are GAP Xtreme Hunters in 6.5 SAUM 4S? My experience with ball powders in general and Magnum/MagPro in particular is that they are more susceptible to temperatures swings between July and November more than many Hodgdon "Extreme" powders.

I am asking George about these other powders (especially the MagPro) because they give same or more velocity than H1000 and they can still run at lower pressures. But if there were gotcha's in them that George's 3K+ rounds unearthed, that it would be good to know.

For the record, I am getting too lazy to be out in too many "Extreme" temperature outings anyway.

Thanks again,
Steve
 
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ci11 said:
Thanks for your insights, CPGFAN.

When you say "both of mine" in your reply, do you mean both of your rifles are GAP Xtreme Hunters in 6.5 SAUM 4S? My experience with ball powders in general and Magnum/MagPro in particular is that they are more susceptible to temperatures swings between July and November more than many Hodgdon "Extreme" powders.

I am asking George about these other powders (especially the MagPro) because they give same or more velocity than H1000 and they can still run at lower pressures. But if there were gotcha's in them that George's 3K+ rounds unearthed, that it would be good to know.

For the record, I am getting too lazy to be out in too many "Extreme" temperature outings anyway.

Thanks again,
Steve
Click to expand...
Had. Nice chat with Dan at Ramshot today as I have some Magnum headed my way to experiment with when my build is complete, it was very encouraging because we have wild temp swings here in Colorado. I don't think it will be as sensitive as most think out of a ball powder, I also think it will be more friendly to the throat compared to stick at the same or lower pressures. So I gotta try it
 
Reloader 25 also looked good when I ran it through QL, but as it's a double base powder I ruled it out, which is a shame because I have plenty of it.

Are Ramshot powders double base?
 
FYI, my gunsmith used GAP's reamer but I had him throat it to 2.268" to ogive on the Berger 140 hybrid or approx 3.020" OACL. With 63 grains of Retumbo in a 8 twist 29" barrel I'm getting 3178fps. The primers don't look any different than they do at 60 grains. I haven't even gotten to the point of developing a load yet but just trying to find max pressure before I load a up rounds for a ladder test.

I'm guessing throated the way GAP intended, and using Retumbo, a load will be compressed but might work fine. H-4831 would be another alternative to H-1000.
 
steve123 said:
FYI, my gunsmith used GAP's reamer but I had him throat it to 2.268" to ogive on the Berger 140 hybrid or approx 3.020" OACL. With 63 grains of Retumbo in a 8 twist 29" barrel I'm getting 3178fps. The primers don't look any different than they do at 60 grains. I haven't even gotten to the point of developing a load yet but just trying to find max pressure before I load a up rounds for a ladder test.

I'm guessing throated the way GAP intended, and using Retumbo, a load will be compressed but might work fine. H-4831 would be another alternative to H-1000.
Click to expand...

Steve, what is your intended purpose for the rifle? It's obviously going to single feed, and with a 29 inch barrel would I be right in presuming targets?

In my F class rifles I choose a bullet to shoot, predominantly the Berger 7mm 180 gr VLD, if it doesn't shoot I change the powder, luckily there's plenty of powders to choose from, getting hold of them is another matter.
With George's outline of what he set out to achieve with the 6.5 4S (which might not be yours) it looks to me like there's only two real choices of powder (in my opinion) those powders are H1000 and Retumbo, both are single base and slow burning, producing low pressure and generating good velocity and hopefully good barrel life. I will be happy to get 2K, let alone 3K of barrel life!
I did run V N170 through QL, but it couldn't generate the velocity, N165 could but then it went over 58000 psi, which is a pity as it's known as quite a forgiving cool burning powder favoured by many F class shooters using 7 WSM's.

So to me it looks like if something isn't working then selecting a different bullet would be the logical option? We're fortunate to have so many to choose from to suit the 6.5 Saum, I can think of at least eight between 130gr to 140gr.
 
IanB said:
Steve, what is your intended purpose for the rifle? It's obviously going to single feed, and with a 29 inch barrel would I be right in presuming targets?

In my F class rifles I choose a bullet to shoot, predominantly the Berger 7mm 180 gr VLD, if it doesn't shoot I change the powder, luckily there's plenty of powders to choose from, getting hold of them is another matter.
With George's outline of what he set out to achieve with the 6.5 4S (which might not be yours) it looks to me like there's only two real choices of powder (in my opinion) those powders are H1000 and Retumbo, both are single base and slow burning, producing low pressure and generating good velocity and hopefully good barrel life. I will be happy to get 2K, let alone 3K of barrel life!
I did run V N170 through QL, but it couldn't generate the velocity, N165 could but then it went over 58000 psi, which is a pity as it's known as quite a forgiving cool burning powder favoured by many F class shooters using 7 WSM's.

So to me it looks like if something isn't working then selecting a different bullet would be the logical option? We're fortunate to have so many to choose from to suit the 6.5 Saum, I can think of at least eight between 130gr to 140gr.
Click to expand...

I forgot to mention that this rifle is a Surgeon XL long action and I'm using it as a repeater.

I have a 30-375R barrel for it for ELR and now the 6.5S. The 6.5 barrel is for a particular long range match I shoot here in AZ called the AZPRC. Recoil management goes a long way towards success in this match because we shoot at each steel twice. If we can see where we hit or miss we can correct better for the 2cnd shot. For me a heavy rifle and good muzzle brake coupled with the least wind drift is a clear advantage. The rifle and scope weighs nearly 24 lbs.

I don't know if I can resist pushing the velocity to the highest node, at least not for a few matches anyway. If I can get 2000 rounds on this barrel pushing mid 3100's I'll be happy.

If Berger made a 130 hybrid I'd use it, otherwise I'm sticking with the 140 hybrid. I don't like having to keep standard VLD's tuned for depth as the throat wears forward. I had to do that with my 6x47L and 6.5-284 before which was a PITA.

I'll post a thread about the beasty in a few weeks.
 
Any word from Gerorge on the Shot show, 6.5 4S brass production? I'm waiting Until factory brass shows itself before I send my parts off to be built. If I can get 100-200pcs of brass I will be a 4S owner.
 
Crotalus said:
Any word from Gerorge on the Shot show, 6.5 4S brass production? I'm waiting Until factory brass shows itself before I send my parts off to be built. If I can get 100-200pcs of brass I will be a 4S owner.
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Keep waiting. :D

Just buy what's available right now. It's obvious that 100 pieces will be plenty of brass for you.
 
Papagallos said:
Keep waiting. :D

Just buy what's available right now. It's obvious that 100 pieces will be plenty of brass for you.
Click to expand...

Just getting tried of having to search the dark corners of the earth for reloading components. And yea 100-200pcs ought to be plenty to get me by for a while, If people really are getting 10 firings out of their brass. Scavenging any SAUM brass I can find and spending all the time to prep..... Yea I have the patients to wait and see what comes up, I don't need it NOW. Just looking forward to a run of production brass, in which case I would buy as much as I could.
 
Crotalus said:
Just getting tried of having to search the dark corners of the earth for reloading components. And yea 100-200pcs ought to be plenty to get me by for a while, If people really are getting 10 firings out of their brass. Scavenging any SAUM brass I can find and spending all the time to prep..... Yea I have the patients to wait and see what comes up, I don't need it NOW. Just looking forward to a run of production brass, in which case I would buy as much as I could.
Click to expand...


Copper Creek and Myself have plenty of brass right now???? Brass is out there, Norma added 7mm saum to their line this year!
 
SHOT SHOW UPDATE

Correct Headstamp Brass will be available by this time next year. Im not at yet 100% sure who it will be. 2 companies are very interested but I am waiting on Delivery and Price before I spill the beans. It will not be Lapua or Nosler.

I saw the New 26 Nosler round. Its big and hugely overbore. Basically a 7mm Dakota necked to 6.5. no-one at nosler would answer barrel life questions, someone there guessed 800. At any rate its a Long action only cartridge and waists alot of powder and barrel. There is no dought that it will be fast!!! factory loads are boasting 3400 with a 129. Hand loaders could probably get 3500 with a 130 berger.
 
Crotalus said:
Just getting tried of having to search the dark corners of the earth for reloading components. And yea 100-200pcs ought to be plenty to get me by for a while, If people really are getting 10 firings out of their brass. Scavenging any SAUM brass I can find and spending all the time to prep..... Yea I have the patients to wait and see what comes up, I don't need it NOW. Just looking forward to a run of production brass, in which case I would buy as much as I could.
Click to expand...

Brass is plentiful, actually. Copper Creek has it on their site ready to go.
 
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Great news on the Headstamped brass. Stampede!!!

what will the brass headstamp read: 6.5 Saum , 6.5 4s, 6.5 GAP, ?
 
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HodgdonExtreme said:
Is CC selling it without the $1.65/piece labor fee to neck and turn?
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Email him and ask. But in the end it's worth it to have CC do the labor for you. As you will spend a good chunk of change to get the dies, bushings, and other parts to turn this down. Buying prepped brass is the most economical way and will save you a LOT of time.
100 pieces can last you for the equivalent of 1000 rounds fired. And I would say you can go well over 10 loadings on Remington brass.
 
KYS said:
Email him and ask. But in the end it's worth it to have CC do the labor for you. As you will spend a good chunk of change to get the dies, bushings, and other parts to turn this down. Buying prepped brass is the most economical way and will save you a LOT of time.
100 pieces can last you for the equivalent of 1000 rounds fired. And I would say you can go well over 10 loadings on Remington brass.
Click to expand...

Thank you, I'll email.

I have bushings and tools to do this processing, so it wouldn't save me money to pay him to do it for me.

I understand, however, he invested in a large quantity with the intent of adding value to it.

Thanks again, I'll ask him.
 
A10XRIFLE said:
SHOT SHOW UPDATE

Correct Headstamp Brass will be available by this time next year. Im not at yet 100% sure who it will be. 2 companies are very interested but I am waiting on Delivery and Price before I spill the beans. It will not be Lapua or Nosler.
Click to expand...

Great News! and good work, Can I pre order now? :)
 
Thanks for the effort George!!!!! That's exciting, I'll start saving money!
 
A10XRIFLE said:
I saw the New 26 Nosler round. Its big and hugely overbore. Basically a 7mm Dakota necked to 6.5. no-one at nosler would answer barrel life questions, someone there guessed 800. At any rate its a Long action only cartridge and waists alot of powder and barrel. There is no dought that it will be fast!!! factory loads are boasting 3400 with a 129. Hand loaders could probably get 3500 with a 130 berger.
Click to expand...

Did they mention the parent cartridge? I thought it was going to be 375 Ruger based.
 
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