PortaJohn

[theLBC]

Vaccine Development, Testing, and Regulation

Systems for developing and testing vaccines emerged after the 19th century, when many vaccines began to be used. The current system for developing, testing, and regulating vaccines developed during the 20th century as the groups involved standardized their procedures and regulations.

www.historyofvaccines.org

One of the few scenarios I can approve of the government intervening. There needs to be more intervention when it comes to pharma, in my opinion. I will wear that conspiracy theorist badge proudly knowing that I don't trust a new type of vaccine, that was rushed through in less than a year, when the safe way to do it has taken more than a decade, and ESPECIALLY when there has never been a successful vaccine for any type of coronavirus. And we're the idiots

i agree in principal that oversight is needed, but the problem is that the "government" cannot be trusted.
more oversight means more bribery and corruption.

look at how they controlled HIV treatments, getting rich off AZT that was killing people, not helping them.
this was the government and fauci in action.

IRS, DOJ, FBI, CIA, DEA, FDA, CDC...
all of these have been proven corrupt and while we know there are criminals throughout, there is little if any prosecution.

you can even add a layer of oversight on top of the oversight, and you would just get more corruption.

 

[Choid]

See post 4,564

It's a fair position to take, especially with the idea of a new type of vaccine. I am certainly more likely to take the J&J variant as my risk category is vanishingly low, and I'd prefer to take something I understand. That said, for years the FDA had a strict safe AND effective standard, which was disastrous because drugs proved safe for one disease could not be used widely for another until proved effective for the new one, despite the established safety standard. We have generally moved passed that in exigent circumstances, but there is still a major issue in that the process is so onerous that only about six or so pharmaceutical companies can bring a product to market, which is a major driver of costs as it drives down competition.

Again, I don't agree with your point of view on it, but I don't think it is an unreasonable one to take.

 

[theLBC]

^ i suppose i have to agree...
that at least they don't let scumbag bill gates use his deadly or crippling experimental vaccines on americans and he can only murder kids in india and africa, so far.

 

[W54/XM-388]

i agree in principal that oversight is needed, but the problem is that the "government" cannot be trusted.
more oversight means more bribery and corruption.

look at how they controlled HIV treatments, getting rich off AZT that was killing people, not helping them.
this was the government and fauci in action.

IRS, DOJ, FBI, CIA, DEA, FDA, CDC...
all of these have been proven corrupt and while we know there are criminals throughout, there is little if any prosecution.

you can even add a layer of oversight on top of the oversight, and you would just get more corruption.

If you opened them all up to being directly sued and having to pay stuff out of their own pockets that might actually help things a bit.

 

[TexPatriot]

i agree in principal that oversight is needed, but the problem is that the "government" cannot be trusted.
more oversight means more bribery and corruption.

look at how they controlled HIV treatments, getting rich off AZT that was killing people, not helping them.
this was the government and fauci in action.

IRS, DOJ, FBI, CIA, DEA, FDA, CDC...
all of these have been proven corrupt and while we know there are criminals throughout, there is little if any prosecution.

you can even add a layer of oversight on top of the oversight, and you would just get more corruption.

Fuck no LB, the government can't be trusted. You can trust they're not looking out for your health and best interest and are only interested in controlling you. If they can't, then exterminating you. The red blooded Patriots of America have become quite the problem for the NWO Globalists.

That used to be tinfoil, crazy talk twenty years ago but the smart kids today have caught on.

Like I stated earlier, when nurse friendly is going over your med. history and asks if you own any guns and have been vaccinated for Covid, both completely irrelevant to why you're in there, you know somethings up.

 

[Solid7]

if they were identified as a covid case, yes. many died "with" covid, but only a fraction of the listed deaths died from covid/pneumonia

So... are there no forensic audits being done on death records? Can't imagine that there isn't anyone with a vested interest in finding that kind of information out.

 

[308pirate]

rope please

Hunting season

 

[Pritch]

pharma makes no money out of healthy people

just cos gov wants an answer right now is just pharma teasing more money out of an easily led Multi Billionaire paid for by taxes

The knowledge that is had in the higher tiers of Pharma is disgusting if only their only objective was to get the job done.

 

[Solid7]

The red blooded Patriots of America have become quite the problem for the NWO Globalists.

You do realize that practically every far left group, is also anti-globalist? Both here and abroad. And they are far more direct in their methods than any "red blooded Patriots" on record, to date. From Seattle, to Honk Kong, to Paris.

Do you not consider that there is a concerted "divide and conquer" strategy, to destroy political discourse in America? And that threads like this one, lay it bare?

I'd even go so far as to say that this whole matter of Covid-19, isn't even the problem. It's just a symptom of a much larger problem.

 

[pmclaine]

So... are there no forensic audits being done on death records? Can't imagine that there isn't anyone with a vested interest in finding that kind of information out.

In case you missed the vid when the link was messed up.....

How Illinois counts Covid....

 

[theLBC]

So... are there no forensic audits being done on death records? Can't imagine that there isn't anyone with a vested interest in finding that kind of information out.

there are taxpayer protection groups that have tied covid payouts to over-counting of covid cases and deaths, sure.
do you think anything will happen?
that is the problem with government payouts, from welfare to payroll protection plans. free money is impossible for many to resist.
add the fact that the government basically outlawed elective surgeries that hospitals rely on for income, they were almost forced to over-report to survive in some cases.

 

[308pirate]

What's one race when we stole an ENTIRE election in November?

‘We Can’t Be Concerned With Optics’: Democrats Continue Campaign To Overturn Iowa Congressional Election

'I don't ever question Republicans' ability to conflate what's actually happening with the facts.'

www.conservativereview.com

If that's not reason enough for secession, I don't know what is.

 

[Pritch]

It isn't bout who is right or who is left its about who remains is the better question

command and control, if they control you with what you perceive is yours is it really yours outright

 

[308pirate]

From the most conservative point of view, the denigration of these vaccines because they were fast is extremely troubling.

My turn just came up last week and I passed.

I'll let others (like possibly you) be my long term side effect lab rats.

If I even take it, it won't be any sooner than next summer.

 

[Solid7]

In case you missed the vid when the link was messed up.....

How Illinois counts Covid....

That is a bit troubling, for sure.

I misunderstood you before. I mistakenly thought that you had said that all deaths were being treated as Covid deaths.

So the base formula is, Covid + death = Covid death. Got it.

 

[Choid]

My turn just came up last week and I passed.

I'll let others (like possibly you) be my long term side effect lab rats.

If I even take it, it won't be any sooner than next summer.

That's fine. I think everything should be an individual choice. My problem is with the idea that these should be judged as dangerous because the government didn't do enough oversight on them. I just never thought I would hear that position from self styled conservatives and free thinkers.

 

[Choid]

I think if the political and social ways of thinking or philosophies to be conserved is what the founders envisioned and set out in the COTUS then most here would consider themselves conservatives.

But, if what is to be conserved is the current thinking of republicans in office today, I do not see much that needs to be conserved. The neo-con way of thinking has long since deviated from the original idea of strong property rights, individual liberty, limited government in both size and scope, as well as striking a proper balance between federal powers and states' rights.

Argue at the stasis of definition if you like. Now show me how increased central agency power over medicines which creates virtual cartels is totally in keeping with what the founders imagined? It is literally an argument for more of the dreaded "deep state." Literally, the opposite of strong property rights, individual liberty, limited government and federal/state balance.

 

[308pirate]

That's fine. I think everything should be an individual choice. My problem is with the idea that these should be judged as dangerous because the government didn't do enough oversight on them. I just never thought I would hear that position from self styled conservatives and free thinkers.

Conservatism is not the absence of government. It's the limitation of government to its strictly constitutional roles.

I judge the vaccine dangerous because no one can tell me how, or even if, it will negatively affect my health 1, 5, 15 years down the road.

Do you know why they can't? Because no testing has been done to check that.

 

[Choid]

Conservatism is not the absence of government. It's the limitation of government to its strictly constitutional roles.

Show me the part of the constitution that creates the powers the FDA, and other government agencies, have.

 

[theLBC]

You do realize that practically every far left group, is also anti-globalist? Both here and abroad. And they are far more direct in their methods than any "red blooded Patriots" on record, to date. From Seattle, to Honk Kong, to Paris.

Do you not consider that there is a concerted "divide and conquer" strategy, to destroy political discourse in America? And that threads like this one, lay it bare?

I'd even go so far as to say that this whole matter of Covid-19, isn't even the problem. It's just a symptom of a much larger problem.

nope.
they were anti-globalist in the last century, but they flipped and are funding by soros, zuckerberg, gates and their ilk now.

 

[Solid7]

I think if the political and social ways of thinking or philosophies to be conserved is what the founders envisioned and set out in the COTUS then most here would consider themselves conservatives.

But, if what is to be conserved is the current thinking of republicans in office today, I do not see much that needs to be conserved. The neo-con way of thinking has long since deviated from the original idea of strong property rights, individual liberty, limited government in both size and scope, as well as striking a proper balance between federal powers and states' rights.

I chuckle a bit when people use the term "neo-con". The political ideals espoused by modern republicans, is Neoliberalism. It's the gospel that all of the talking heads preach.

It's all fine and good, until you start to realize that you empower/hijack certain aspects of Capitalism, to the point that your state and private industry, become 2 sides of the same coin. That's when people end up saying stupid shit like, "too big to fail". We're still trying to make "free market" arguments, when they're often not applicable.

Example: a pharmaceutical company has all the resources in place, to tell you exactly what the problem is - and you don't have any means of refuting. They own the personnel, the research, the knowledge, and certainly the politicians. And no matter what party you belong to, your favorite politicians are in their pockets. (remember when it came to light that tobacco companies were playing both sides of the aisle?)

 

[Choid]

I judge the vaccine dangerous because no one can tell me how, or even if, it will negatively affect my health 1, 5, 15 years down the road.

Do you know why they can't? Because no testing has been done to check that.

That's fine. But 5 and 15 year health effects are generally not part of the approval process under any circumstances. And for good reason. If it took 15 years to approve a drug, we'd be a much poorer world.

Again, I don't think your personal decision is wrong. In fact I'd say that the people who should most likely take the vaccine without much thought are those in most danger of bad covid reactions, and they are the ones who also have less to worry about with long term issues.

I would never argue against a position like that.

I do agree that limiting the legal liability of companies has created a cartel like environment. Take away their legal protections and the problem solves itself.

But, the issue is what happens when the cartels cause damage and don't want to be held liable for the damage they caused. The issue is that the common person has almost no recourse in the current environment. It's easy to see why people are calling for the ones with the power to intervene when the entities causing the damage are shielded from liability.

I do agree that the conservative argument would be more along the lines of removing the liability shielding provisions of current legislation instead of asking for government intervention.

It isn't just the limiting of liability. It is the pure cost of doing a drug trial, much of which is just wasted money. It means that only companies with huge balance sheets can produce new drugs, so emerging companies get bought up by the big companies, or the have to "partner" with them to get a drug through. Either way, very few can do it, and it will stay that way, which will keep competition down and prices up. So the existence of the cartels, which are formed by government policy, is a problem in and of itself, and it is not limited to any obvious damage they cause, meaning the damage is far wider spread.

 

[Solid7]

You just dont know shit....you think you do, but you just dont! Your feelings of moral superiority and intelligence cloud your own common sense. Youre ignorant, because you think your not!

Please tell me more about my hatered of education and intellect, and your whatnot!

Hop out of your allegory cave, put some shades on, and learn your just like the rest of us....no smarter, no less, just clouded because you have have been down in the cave thinking you are something youre not.

Youre stupid, just like the rest of us, just like "them", even though you think your something youre not!

Never mind, go stick your head up a horses ass, where it belongs.....dolt!

That's really the best response you could muster? Fuckin' hell. You poor bastard.

 

[MCSO1357]

Conservatism is not the absence of government. It's the limitation of government to its strictly constitutional roles.

I judge the vaccine dangerous because no one can tell me how, or even if, it will negatively affect my health 1, 5, 15 years down the road.

Do you know why they can't? Because no testing has been done to check that.

Testing is being completed with every jab administered, all who take the vaccine are the lab rats.

 

[Solid7]

nope.
they were anti-globalist in the last century, but they flipped and are funding by soros, zuckerberg, gates and their ilk now.

So who's the ones throwing rocks in the streets, then?

Republicans today cannot be anti-globalist, when their very ideology is laid upon the neoliberal principles that actually enable globalism. It makes no sense to state otherwise.

I'd beg to differ that the left is no longer anti-globalist. They have been temporarily side-tracked by the "woke" movement. But the anti-globalist movement is still very much alive and well in cities. Have you not heard of the "Tax Amazon" movement? Bezos is supposedly one of those who is spearheading Socialism in the US, so he should enjoy unfettered support from the left...

 

[308pirate]

Show me the part of the constitution that creates the powers the FDA, and other government agencies, have.

I'm not entirely disagreeing with you but the commerce clause of the Constitution can be construed many ways.

 

[308pirate]

Which is a great observation of one of the many ways the Courts and Congress have gone so far off the rails.

The more governmental regulations you remove, the closer to a contractual issue it becomes. If it is a purely voluntary transaction, then it becomes whether any information which makes up the basis of the contract was fraudulent or not and whether both parties upheld the terms of the contract.

This is a scenario that almost seems like speaking a foreign language in modern medicine. Although the solution is dirt simple, it would sufficiently bring the cost down in the scenarios you described.

It's hard to imagine a more distorted and unfree market as health care.

 

[spelled right]

The unconstitutional security measures that were put in place following 911 were simply version1.0
We were told, you must give up some of your rights so we can protect you from the boogeyman. The terrorists. The mantra then was "never forget" and now it is "always remember". Always remember to wear your mask, social distance, and stay home. The terrorists have now become us. We are the greatest threat to the public. It never was a war on terror, but a war on politics.

Checkpoints at the airport where only the beginning. I see a future of similar screenings in order to enter a stadium or a retail store, Without proof of vaccination, your freedom to travel or gather in groups will not be possible. But as one MSM journalist stated...your vaccination card is your ticket to freedom. With all my sincerity, God help us.

 

[308pirate]

That's fine. But 5 and 15 year health effects are generally not part of the approval process under any circumstances. And for good reason. If it took 15 years to approve a drug, we'd be a much poorer world.

Maybe 15 is a bit far to go, but 2 - 3 years would be reasonable for me.

Personally, I'm not afraid of this disease. At the end of the day, we're all dead men walking. We just don't know the time and date of our "execution".

 

[Solid7]

G20 in Hamburg: Who are the protesters?

Pictures of protesters clashing with police have gone out across the world - but what do they want?

www.bbc.com

"Far-left extremism has become a feature of protests in recent years, and Hamburg - known for its squatter scene, which developed in the 1980s - is not stranger to violent protests. Clashes broke out at this year's May Day protest in the city, while in 2008 cars burned as extremists battled police on the streets for several hours. It meant Hamburg police were already aware of the potential issues ahead of the G20, drafting in police from around the country."

These are not conservatives.

So... tell me again how the left is no longer anti-globalist.

 

[Pritch]

Waiting for the rain here but here goes nothin

science is as it can do doesn't matter what your affiliation, a vaccine if available works or it doesn't

from all i can tell Politicians are working on feelings and spin doctors

science works on a litmus test it is either yes or no or to what degree

so maybe put it to the test believe the bullet as was said by one well versed individual

a lot of the argument i found through what they taught me was the way in which they test

They involve things like placebo's in a lot of their research this skews results from what i have noted

the only answers you are going to get is accuracy through volume run enough head of stock through a treatment see what the results are

problem with that is where do u get the data for the watching of the herd if u cant control the paddock or observe it first hand

 

[308pirate]

But as one MSM journalist stated...your vaccination card is your ticket to freedom.

At some point this trend needs to be bucked or this won't be a planet worth living in.

And people who have no more fucks to give about life can be the most dangerous. Especially when they're smart, intelligent, and educated.

 

[308pirate]

Waiting for the rain here but here goes nothin

science is as it can do doesn't matter what your affiliation, a vaccine if available works or it doesn't

from all i can tell Politicians are working on feelings and spin doctors

science works on a litmus test it is either yes or no or to what degree

so maybe put it to the test believe the bullet as was said by one well versed individual

a lot of the argument i found through what they taught me was the way in which they test

They involve things like placebo's in a lot of their research this skews results from what i have noted

the only answers you are going to get is accuracy through volume run enough head of stock through a treatment see what the results are

problem with that is where do u get the data for the watching of the herd if u cant control the paddock or observe it first hand

Science is in many ways dependent on government funding.

Science is performed by humans

Humans are corruptible

Do you need me to spell out what comes next?

 

[Solid7]

At some point this trend needs to be bucked or this won't be a planet worth living in.

And people who have no more fucks to give about life can be the most dangerous. Especially when they're smart, intelligent, and educated.

it's really simple - find a doctor friend. Or a doctor friend of a friend. Give them a financial incentive. Have them load up the syringe, and squirt it on the floor. A vaccine has been administered, it's on your record.

This may or may not have already been done.

There are no problems which are without creative solutions.

 

[TexPatriot]

Conservatism is not the absence of government. It's the limitation of government to its strictly constitutional roles.

I judge the vaccine dangerous because no one can tell me how, or even if, it will negatively affect my health 1, 5, 15 years down the road.

Do you know why they can't? Because no testing has been done to check that.

Testing begins when you get the shot.

 

[Charger442]

That's fine. I think everything should be an individual choice. My problem is with the idea that these should be judged as dangerous because the government didn't do enough oversight on them. I just never thought I would hear that position from self styled conservatives and free thinkers.

I don't think it has shit to do with the government oversight, but everything to do with scientific studies. There's not been enough time.

Case in point: got a friend who's pregnant. She asked the doctor if she should get vaccinated. He said hell no, there's not enough data or studies available to say if it's safe for her or the unborn baby.

On the flip side, another pregnant girl wants to get the vaccine and the doctor is all "ok, why not?"

How does the vaccine interact with heart medication? What about diabetes? Is there a drop in fertility? Etc and so on

 

[theLBC]

So who's the ones throwing rocks in the streets, then?

Republicans today cannot be anti-globalist, when their very ideology is laid upon the neoliberal principles that actually enable globalism. It makes no sense to state otherwise.

I'd beg to differ that the left is no longer anti-globalist. They have been temporarily side-tracked by the "woke" movement. But the anti-globalist movement is still very much alive and well in cities. Have you not heard of the "Tax Amazon" movement? Bezos is supposedly one of those who is spearheading Socialism in the US, so he should enjoy unfettered support from the left...

i'd have to disagree.
climate hoax is globalist income redistribution - via the left
gun control and the idea that the UN should set rules for members is globalist crap - supported by the left
universal healthcare and the "right for every human to free healthcare" is a leftist globalist idea.
no borders is leftist globalist bullshit.

the left protested the wto as globalist because of who controls the money.
now that money feeds the left...woke culture.

 

[308pirate]

it's really simple - find a doctor friend. Or a doctor friend of a friend. Give them a financial incentive. Have them load up the syringe, and squirt it on the floor. A vaccine has been administered, it's on your record.

This may or may not have already been done.

There are no problems which are without creative solutions.

I don't need to do anything of the sort

 

[308pirate]

Testing begins when you get the shot.

I know. That's why I'm letting others be the rats.

 

[Pritch]

@308pirate nah mate just got done with the finger pointing and to think any talk at this time would reveal much other than the fact that damned if you do damned if you don't

 

[theLBC]

"Now we are not going to be able to, basically, if this continues, publish any more clinical research data because the pharmaceutical companies are so financially powerful today, and are able to use such methodologies, as to have us accept papers which are apparently methodologically perfect, but which, in reality, manage to conclude what they want them to conclude," said Lancet EIC Richard Horton.

 

[pmclaine]

there are taxpayer protection groups that have tied covid payouts to over-counting of covid cases and deaths, sure.
do you think anything will happen?
that is the problem with government payouts, from welfare to payroll protection plans. free money is impossible for many to resist.
add the fact that the government basically outlawed elective surgeries that hospitals rely on for income, they were almost forced to over-report to survive in some cases.

I understand also families are being fucked by insurance companies due to this.

If someone dies in a legit covered "accident" but than is found to be covid and the death cert says "covid", death and disability says "Oh natural death, nothing to cover here"

It certainly would be a good political kiss to Insurance Company political donors to give them a means to avoid payouts.

I have heard this but have no legit case of it happening..............So under WAPO/NY Times rules of journalism this is fact.

 

[Solid7]

i'd have to disagree.
climate hoax is globalist income redistribution - via the left
gun control and the idea that the UN should set rules for members is globalist crap - supported by the left
universal healthcare and the "right for every human to free healthcare" is a leftist globalist idea.
no borders is leftist globalist bullshit.

the left protested the wto as globalist because of who controls the money.
now that money feeds the left...woke culture.

Disagree as you like, but the left has just as many confusions and contradictions in their thought/word/deed, as the right does. (again, my references to neoliberalism, and divide and conquer)

This is a game of chaos. You're all losing.

 

[pmclaine]

If that's not reason enough for secession, I don't know what is.

They are trying to do same to Marjorie Taylor Green now.

Will of the voter doesnt matter if congress decides to vote your representative off the island/out of their exclusive club.

 

[Solid7]

"Now we are not going to be able to, basically, if this continues, publish any more clinical research data because the pharmaceutical companies are so financially powerful today, and are able to use such methodologies, as to have us accept papers which are apparently methodologically perfect, but which, in reality, manage to conclude what they want them to conclude," said Lancet EIC Richard Horton.

This is exactly what I was saying before, when I stated that Capitalism has been hijacked. And yet, you'll have people standing strong in their defiance of the notion, for fear that they might be seen as some sort of "socialist". If Fox News tomorrow ran an apologist piece on big pharma, that shit would be swallowed, hook, line, and sinker.

Divided and conquered. Whomever is doing whatever, has done a brilliant job of using the momentum of every single group of people in this country, against themselves, and everyone else.

 

[pmclaine]

That is a bit troubling, for sure.

I misunderstood you before. I mistakenly thought that you had said that all deaths were being treated as Covid deaths.

So the base formula is, Covid + death = Covid death. Got it.

Which if that isnt bullshit than what is?

Especially in Illinois where a Company of people get taken out on the South Side each weekend.

Neat way to lower crime stats.....another one ventilated by 9mm dies of covid....nothing to see here.

 

[pmclaine]

Show me the part of the constitution that creates the powers the FDA, and other government agencies, have.

Congress abrogating its responsibility to unaccountable agencies so come election time they have no accountability to explain to the electorate.

Provides plausible deniability.

Same as DOD relying on contractors.

 

[Solid7]

Further, the pharmaceutical companies grossly profit off of the backs of the American healthcare system, and then turn it into political influence in other countries, by subsidizing their healthcare. They do this by selling their products at a fractions - or fractions of fractions - of what we, in the US would pay.

 

[Solid7]

Which if that isnt bullshit than what is?

Well, early Covid reporting - and maybe even the current, I'm unsure - was conflating the statistics, by treating every single Covid positive result, as a unique instance. Even in cases where it was someone who was a repeat tester. Even if it was simply not a fully recovered patient. Even if it was a false positive.

The false positives are easier to write-off, because the nature of reporting would make that difficult to capture. But the other, not so much...

 

[theLBC]

Disagree as you like, but the left has just as many confusions and contradictions in their thought/word/deed, as the right does. (again, my references to neoliberalism, and divide and conquer)

This is a game of chaos. You're all losing.

don't confuse antifa with the left in general, although it might be considered a tool of the left.
they only want chaos to create fear.
once the public is in fear, they will trade freedom for protection.