Advanced Marksmanship Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

TorF

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Col. Stang invented this event, now called just Stangshooting, as the Krag Jørgensen rifle became the official Norwegian army rifle at the end of the 1890'ies. The rules are simple: Put as many rounds as you can in a target in 25 seconds. Typical target and range varies but usually it is a head sized target at 230m. Here's one of the best in action. Rifle is SIG SSG3000 aka Sauer STR 6.5x55 with open sights. He get 17 hits in 25seconds: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SfY899uNOk0


This is from national TV. Krag demo at app 13min. The shooting starts app 7minutes into the program. Electronic targets with realtime scoring for the audience: http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/279486
 

mark5pt56

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

That looks like alot of fun. Very interesting bolt manipulation. I really liked the public interest and news coverage.

I recall when I was in then FRG(West Germany) I was an MP and our sister Feldjager unit would get together at their Marburg facility and shoot. It was alot of fun getting to shoot the G3's
 

LoneWolfUSMC

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mark5pt56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That looks like alot of fun. Very interesting bolt manipulation.</div></div>

It's a straight pull bolt. No lift.

Man he's smooth though.
 

Ares

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

LoneWolfUSMC no, it is normal bolt operating rifle, not straight pull bolt. Hand movement is very typical.

SSG3000 bolt
minsk_ssg3000.jpg


Sauer STR bolt
sauer200str.jpg
 

mark5pt56

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

Did you notice the trigger was pulled via the middle or ring finger. I practice that with my duty pistol to simulate injuries, never tried it on a rifle.
 

sb_pete

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

Wow, that's pretty impressive. Head sized target at 230m? That's cool. Do you have any images of the target? I'd be interested to see what he is shooting at.
I have done some accross the course highpower shooting and seen guys do well with bolt guns, but the going for the center of a large black ring is easier with irons than going for a target that is only the size of a head, period.
Thanks for sharing.
 

TorF

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

In the video from TV they show the semi final targets at 2:00minutes. Range = 240m.

First semi final shooting starts at 3:10 ( number of hits in the display )

Final: 130m. Very small target,"face". Hits are displyed live on screen.

Have a look at G3 shooter at 24:33min. Group is less than 10cm.

Winner starts at 26:11min.

The leader from semifinal and "youtube"-man starts at 28:10 misses one shot i final.
 

Just Jim

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

Splendid! The Brits were taught a similar system, and wild reports from the German trenches insisted that every "Tommy" was armed with a machine gun.

Cheers... Jim
 

Afy

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

I think I am going to try and get something simillar going in France...

At least at my shooting club...
smile.gif
 

RTA

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

His shooting hand manipulation of the trigger finger as mentioned above is the key. It helps with the lifting and pulling the bolt back and forward into play very fast. Awesome shooting and form in prone with iron sights. Would not want to be on the buisness end.
 

beezaur

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: RTA</div><div class="ubbcode-body">His shooting hand manipulation of the trigger finger as mentioned above is the key. . . </div></div>

This is the kind of thing I am interested in. I just don't see how I can manipulate my trusty Ruger like that (tried it, no luck).

Can a Sako TRG-22 be run that way?

Scott
 

Brown Dog

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

Just took the time to watch the Norwegian TV clip.

Incredible!

If you'd told me blokes with bolt actions could beat blokes with G3s in a speed shoot I'd have just laughed!

Incredible!

smile.gif
 

1SMALLJOHNSON

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

Well, there you have it. The guy is slung up. I'll be anybody a dollar that the same shooter or any other could not have engauged that target with as many successful shots with a bipod. Thanks for the video. Us dumb US shooters need to get back to fundamentals. Bipods are for conscripts!
 

JeffinTX

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

looks like he manipulates the bolt with just the index finger, similar to how D Tubb describes in his books. there is a lot less hand movement needed
 

TiroFijo

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

WOW! very, very impressive. Thanks TorF
smile.gif


People always talk (exaggerate?) about the mythical lee-enfields and pre-WWI proffessional british army fast firing techniques, it seems that with any slick bolt action the same results can be achieved ...with lots of training.

The modern rifle's detachable mags and oversize, well positioned bolt handles do help.
 

Greg Langelius *

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

I think Jeff Cooper would have smiled on this.
 

Chris F

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

Wow! That guy is shooting like a Rattle Battle cadence!!

I found this which shows more detail on the bolt manipulation technique.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8qqfE2t8i0
As other's pointed out, similar to the Brits and their Enfield, with the Middle Finger working the trigger.

Speaking of Brits, and straight pull bolts, I also ran across this (American Highpower Course of Fire. 10 shots in 70sec);
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5msQt9zzNA

...any one find this ironic?
 

TorF

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

YouTube shooter John O. Ågotnes at the 2009 finals from National television. HQ video of shooting. Absolutely fantastic gun handling. 6:00min into the video shows his 2008 championship winning final and 24:13 into the video shows his 2009 final wich gave him 2. place: http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/521030

Take a look ar 2009 champ Rinde at 31:18. He shoots a G3. Look at his eyes. Not much flincing there.

 

The Mechanic

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Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

I guess when you are born with a rifle in your hand, and things like shooting are as common as the NFL in that country you get a lot of GOOD shooters.
That is like 1 or 2 moa with iron sights rapid fire...... That right there is good shootin'
 

lowlight

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: deadly0311</div><div class="ubbcode-body">240 m at a head sized target Frank</div></div>

    8" can be a "head sized target" what is the actual target size, 6", 8", or 4"... at 240 meters, maybe i will do this weekend on a 6" target and see what happens, 2 MOA in 25 seconds, see how many hits I can muster.
     

    sobrbiker883

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    I'd be interested in the results.....

    The "stang" vid TorF posted had me thinking recently about looking into setting up a Tikka 595MS for precision matches.
     

    TiroFijo

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    I'm also interested in the target size and shape
    smile.gif


    For me, it would be an 6" circle like LL said. Please post your results, LL.
     

    Sean the Nailer

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    Some months ago when I'd seen shoots like this (courtesy of TorF) I'd asked if there were any "English Simulcasts" because something like this would be great to see broadcast, let alone compete in, here in North America.
     

    The Mechanic

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    Maybe Frank can look over the list of members and see if any are in Norway and can translate the rule book from the web site.
     

    lowlight

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    I have a bunch of days off and will still be RO so I will knock this out on a Fed Qual target that has a head and scoring ring there in... see what I can do.

    Although to qualify, no open sights here unless I use an M4, so it will have to be a scoped bolt action.
     

    Graham

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">... see what I can do.</div></div>Slung-up prone, right? Something tells me that the longer length of pull, shooting jacket, and sling help lock-in the rifle at the shoulder for rapid-fire.
     

    TorF

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    I can translate.

    LL, I can also ship you some real paper targets if you want

    The Stang-shooting is a Norwegian event organized by DFS. See http://www.dfs.no/en/

    DFS ( and the similar shooting orgs. in Sweeden and Denmark ) has standarized on the Sauer STR200/SSG3000 and G3( in Norway). It's still legal to use the old Krags and Mausers.

    The rulebook is here in Norwegian: http://www.dfs.no/no/Regelverk/Skytterbo...a_08_09_web.pdf
     

    lowlight

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    Torf,

    That would be awesome, send them to RO:

    Rifles Only
    188 South F.M. 772
    Kingsville, TX 78363 USA

    Let me know what it cost and I will reimburse you.

    What size is the head target ? (CM is ok)
     

    lowlight

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    I planned on doing it with what I have available, but if the rules state something else I have no problem giving it a try either way.

    I don't have a high power rifle with irons, so I would generally just use what is here, and then simply engage the target as much as I can in the time given.

    I was thinking about doing it lefthanded though so I can run the bolt with my support hand, that would be the only real modification I could see being done.
     

    The Mechanic

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    You could always toss on a 1X scope if you got one. Also may be fun to get the spec on the final targets that require resetting position for the three different targets. The distance between each target and distance. It looks like they are closer than the other head shot targets. Would like to do this also. TorF can you do a rough translation on size of targets and distances for the two?
     

    TorF

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    The targets with mesurers and rangelimits are shown in chapter 9, page 9-3 in the rulebook. The target in the stang finals is "Småen" = "Tiny". This target measures w/h = 25,5cm(10")/30,5cm(12"), max range 300m/recomended range250 (G3 mr 150m/rr 120m). Semi final target is "1/4". These are all 3 posision targets that in a competition are shot prone, kneeling or standing without support.
     

    9H_Cracka

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: LoneWolfUSMC</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: mark5pt56</div><div class="ubbcode-body">That looks like alot of fun. Very interesting bolt manipulation.</div></div>

    It's a straight pull bolt. No lift.

    Man he's smooth though. </div></div>

    Naw that is a regular turn bolt.

    Gary Anderson used to put on a demonstration shooting a right handled rifle but shot left handed, sling coat and irons, just as fast.
     

    HotIce

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could always toss on a 1X scope if you got one. Also may be fun to get the spec on the final targets that require resetting position for the three different targets. The distance between each target and distance. It looks like they are closer than the other head shot targets. Would like to do this also. TorF can you do a rough translation on size of targets and distances for the two? </div></div>
    Iron sights have some problems more WRT a 1x scope.
    With a 1x scope you don't have to care about front/rear sight alignments, front sight focus - blurry target issues, and so on.
    So a 1x scope test would not match the iron sights IMO.
     

    steven04

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Chris F</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Wow! That guy is shooting like a Rattle Battle cadence!!

    Speaking of Brits, and straight pull bolts, I also ran across this (American Highpower Course of Fire. 10 shots in 70sec);
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5msQt9zzNA

    ...any one find this ironic?

    </div></div>

    I know the guy in this video. I shoot Civilian Service Rifle matches here in the UK with these guys. After the full-bore centerfire semi-auto rifle ban, we decided not to roll over and die, but continue shooting. Hence the straight-pull AR's. We have regular bolt guns too of course.

    I personally have 5 AR's, 3 Enfields, Sako TRG and a .50bmg...We're still shooting, despite the restrictions.

    Thanks for the video by the way Torf, great stuff.
     

    The Mechanic

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    I know this would not be the same as using irons. However Lowlight said in his post before I suggested a 1X

    quote "Although to qualify, no open sights here unless I use an M4, so it will have to be a scoped bolt action." unquote.

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: HotIce</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: The Mechanic</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You could always toss on a 1X scope if you got one. Also may be fun to get the spec on the final targets that require resetting position for the three different targets. The distance between each target and distance. It looks like they are closer than the other head shot targets. Would like to do this also. TorF can you do a rough translation on size of targets and distances for the two? </div></div>
    Iron sights have some problems more WRT a 1x scope.
    With a 1x scope you don't have to care about front/rear sight alignments, front sight focus - blurry target issues, and so on.
    So a 1x scope test would not match the iron sights IMO.
    </div></div>
     

    jthyttin

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
    Gary Anderson used to put on a demonstration shooting a right handled rifle but shot left handed, sling coat and irons, just as fast.</div></div>

    Sounds strange (difficult bolt manipulation).

    Or was he just demonstrating that he could shoot fast even though he shot left handed?

    If somebody's gonna run a test, how about Mad Minute? 12" target at 300y, prone, irons, no sling (although I presume the whole target was bigger for easier sight picture, and I haven't found a definitive source on rules). Do an internet search for "Sergeant Snoxall", that should get you started (38 hits in one minute).
     

    HotIce

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    Not a service rifle?
     

    steven04

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    <div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: NineHotel</div><div class="ubbcode-body">How about people down range while they fire?</div></div>

    NRA rules permit firers at different distances to shoot on the same range as long as they have 10 targets separation per 100 yards between them.
     

    The Mechanic

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    Re: Rapid fire field target shooting in Norway

    Thought I might resurrect this thread as it always interested me and I am sure many new SH members may not have seen this.