SH ColdBore Challenge ! Test yourself...

[Lowlight]

Also, my shooting position.... Really...? You should know bringing your strong side leg forward brings most of the torso off the ground to minimize the effects the breathing and puts less pressure on the arm that controls you trigger finger. Widely used in many types prone shooting.

Ignorance is bliss...

if you break at the bottom of your breathing cycle, your breathing has nothing to do with it.

The offset position you are copying it used for Sling shooting and not with a bipod... that other crap you just said is just that, crap.

Using a bipod, shooting straight back and square is the preferred position.

You're clueless, try taking a class.

 

[Graham]

SH ColdBore Challenge ! Test yourself...

Wouldn't getting into a helicopter bring ALL of my torso off the ground?!!

 

[Lowlight]

He saw a picture on the internet, so it has to be right.

Hold on while i tie one arm behind my back... to take the pressure off.

 

[InkedIan]

Here we don't define 'expert' as a man from out of town - regardless of whether he carries a briefcase.

I'm thinking that temperature probably affects velocity regardless of the type of primer used...

And 'cold bore' does not refer to a cold temperature barrel that 'can' change its point of impact when warm. If your point of impact wanders after the first shot you have a rifle problem.

Point of impact refers to where your bullet hits in comparison to where you are aiming. So unless your core bore shot hits in the same spot as the rest of your group, then the cold bore shot does have a different POI. Alsooooo, cold bore is refering to the barrel being a lower temp before your first shot and a higher temp after....

 

[Lowlight]

There are dozens of references where the bullet goes through the same hole, Cold,

The cold bore myth has been proven false as far as Cold vs Hot is concerned, Like I said try taking a class or at least catching up to 2010, as you are stuck in 1978.

Look Graham posted in this thread,

You are coming to this fight unarmed on so many levels

 

[InkedIan]

Ignorance is bliss...

if you break at the bottom of your breathing cycle, your breathing has nothing to do with it.

The offset position you are copying it used for Sling shooting and not with a bipod... that other crap you just said is just that, crap.

Using a bipod, shooting straight back and square is the preferred position.

You're clueless, try taking a class.

I have.... Every year I shot expert in the Marine Corps which was every time I shot qual... I know you are a self proclaimed expert on everything ever so is disagreeing with you gonna get me suspended again?

 

[Lowlight]

How am I am self proclaimed expert...

The facts are here, in this thread, you are wrong, your information is old.

I shot Expert in the USMC too, I also graduated Sniper School, and taught privately for many years, to people you only saw from a distance.

Tell us your background in shooting beside boot camp ..

I actually go and do what I say, I don't talk about shit I have no idea.

You're clueless, the sooner you realize that the better off you'll be, especially since I am not the only disagreeing with you.

 

[InkedIan]

There are dozens of references where the bullet goes through the same hole, Cold,

The cold bore myth has been proven false as far as Cold vs Hot is concerned, Like I said try taking a class or at least catching up to 2010, as you are stuck in 1978.

Look Graham posted in this thread,

You are coming to this fight unarmed on so many levels

So your one target disproves a decades old theory and a reason a lot of competitions allow spotter shots....

 

[Lowlight]

One target are you fucking high, there are dozens of examples on here, we have proven this over and over.

Spotter shots have nothing to do with it.

It's wrong, it's old information,

Please hang it up, you're out of your league

 

[Lowlight]

You do realize this is my job,

Beside having gone through every myth and theory over the last 14 years of this website. We have demonstrated it on numerous occasions.

I was a full time instructor teaching some pretty high end shooters, so honestly your issue with me is clouding the facts of the matter, your information is not only old it's been proven wrong.

You repeating what you read doesn't make it right, keep digging, you lose credibility with every post

 

[MAGUA]

Damn ! I wish it was still 1978

 

[psinclair]

I observed a .3 mil drop going from 48 degrees to 17 degrees at 107yds out of my front door, but it it's was 2000mr which is a bit temp sensitive.

Not my results....

I've shot at minus 40F up here in the winter, to 110F in mid-summer with zero POI change at 100 yards....that's a little more temp swing that you had .3 at. That sounds like an equipment issue to me.

 

[TOP PREDATOR]

Michael Buffer - Let's get ready to rumble 1 - YouTube

 

[InkedIan]

I've never been to a comp where spotter shots were allowed?? Around here you best be ready from the gate as no freebee's or skirt shots are allowed.

Palma and F-class are a few. Some allow 3 shots before shooting for score for "depending on your belief" fouling and/or cold bore shot and to allow the shooter to make the adjustments needed to get on the x-ring before score.

Not my results....

I've shot at minus 40F up here in the winter, to 110F in mid-summer with zero POI change at 100 yards....that's a little more temp swing that you had .3 at. That sounds like an equipment issue to me.

Well, I doubt you are using the same rifle and handloads as me... There's no doubt every rifle is going to react differently, but for someone to say the temp only affects external ballistics seems ridiculous to me and goes against my personal experiences.

Ignorance is bliss...

if you break at the bottom of your breathing cycle, your breathing has nothing to do with it.

The offset position you are copying it used for Sling shooting and not with a bipod... that other crap you just said is just that, crap.

Using a bipod, shooting straight back and square is the preferred position.

You're clueless, try taking a class.

Trying to have a discussion with you is like talking to a high school kid. We disagree that's fine..... Shooters have had varying opinions based off experiences since the beginning. As far as my shooting position type in f-class championships or long range competitions in google or bing images and half shoot the same way I do and half shoot like you.... It's all about consistency, natural point of aim, and comfort when it come to a shooting position.

 

[Mendy300wm]

Google or bing images.... Jesus Christ

Excuse for everything, if you had your shit dialed in you would've known and could account for your POI change. This web site is kinda for people who don't get to take 2-3 warm up shots...

 

[Lowlight]

He's probably never shot a match in his life, nor knows why they do what they do...

As if every yard line you need a "cold bore warm up" to get into the X Ring...

Stop using Google and you might learn something.

It cracks me up when people come into my work and tell me how to do my job and they answer is google it... LOL As if he would go into his car dealer and tell them what to do. He probably barely shoots 200 rounds a month and he is gonna tell me who shoots 3x a week what is going on with a "cold bore"

As I noted, Ignorance is truly bliss.

 

[InkedIan]

He's probably never shot a match in his life, nor knows why they do what they do...

As if every yard line you need a "cold bore warm up" to get into the X Ring...

Stop using Google and you might learn something.

It cracks me up when people come into my work and tell me how to do my job and they answer is google it... LOL As if he would go into his car dealer and tell them what to do. He probably barely shoots 200 rounds a month and he is gonna tell me who shoots 3x a week what is going on with a "cold bore"

As I noted, Ignorance is truly bliss.

As usual you only read what you want, exaggerate, and twist words. I've seen it so many times in other posts it's really no surprise.


oh yeah, this guy must be an idiot shooting bent leg from a rest.... No sling..... Oh wait, that's the Captain of the U.S. F-Class Open class team..... but low light says that a sling only position so he needs to take a class....

 

[Lowlight]

He' s using a big old front rest, they call that belly bench rest for a reason. He could get off the rifle and shoot it from the side it wouldn't matter. In that game his body position is meaningless. You do know that rest has a pin in the ground holding it in place right?

I have actually shot F class have you?


Admit you have no clue except what you read, and saw in pictures.

Tell us all too how the cold bore matters in f class especially after you shot multiple strings.

 

[InkedIan]

Google or bing images.... Jesus Christ

Excuse for everything, if you had your shit dialed in you would've known and could account for your POI change. This web site is kinda for people who don't get to take 2-3 warm up shots...

Also a website full of people could never hit a 5" x-ring at 1000 yards constantly... Not saying I could do it but i'm also not the one belittling another style of long range shooting.

 

[Who Dat]

Cold bore to those who know what the definition is, is very simple, no warm up, no fiddle fucking around, you take your weapon and you make one shot whether that means you take it out of the case, sit or sleep with it all day it does not matter. If your weapon is zeroed properly and your body mechanics are right you will hit exactly what you are aiming at. If you are good the second follow up shot should hit where the first round went with no third or fourth shot, as Lowlight stated temp, barometric pressure and elevation are nothing at 100 yards. To be serious if someone you know is being held hostage and you have to send it with one round at 300 yards or less can you get the job done. Nothing like stress, duress and adrenaline to fuck up your day, if you are lucky one round is all it will take but you had better be damn well be prepared to send a second to get the job done. competition is never real life, a very simple motto that some stick to: "Train to fight or the reversal fight to train". Other words training will only take you so far what happens after that in the real world is on you!

833 yards clean barrel cold bore with an immediate follow up shot both rounds touching, as some would say where is the third round to show a good group, my response I don't need it.

 

[InkedIan]

He' s using a big old front rest, they call that belly bench rest for a reason. He could get off the rifle and shoot it from the side it wouldn't matter. In that game his body position is meaningless. You do know that rest has a pin in the ground holding it in place right?

I have actually shot F class have you?


Admit you have no clue except what you read, and saw in pictures.

Tell us all too how the cold bore matters in f class especially after you shot multiple strings.

Yeah, it's called a belly bench rest because you shoot it from the prone and isn't setting much higher than most bi-pod and the only reason he's using that rest is because it's open class vs F-TR. Also, did you know the shooting mat from the match in my picture has pockets to hold the bipod in place right?

Admit it your ego rules over your reasoning or logic.

Tell me where I said that a cold bore shot was the only factor and always affects POI...

 

[Lowlight]

You're too clueless to respond too anymore

you barely have a working knowledge of this and have shit on this thread enough..,

my ego has nothing to do with the level and degree of my knowledge. This is what I do for a living. I know this stuff without the aid of reference and have done more in terms of shooting than you ever dreamed.

 

[InkedIan]

You know Lowlight you really remind of President Barack Obama. He went to harvard law and went on to teach constitutional law and probably knows the constitution word for word yet for some reason has little to no understanding of it and thinks that no matter how he twists it he's always right and anyone who disagrees is stupid.... Yeah, you have the same mentality....

 

[Graham]

SH ColdBore Challenge ! Test yourself...

You know Lowlight you really remind of President Barack Obama. He went to harvard law and went on to teach constitutional law and probably knows the constitution word for word yet for some reason has little to no understanding of it and thinks that no matter how he twists it he's always right and anyone who disagrees is stupid.... Yeah, you have the same mentality....

Similar to our Commander in Chief, whether you like him or hate him there's no denying that he's brighter than you, more accomplished than you are, has more political acumen and knows his stuff in his field. To argue with either or them you need more than a cursory knowledge of the chosen subject matter.

 

[Snoball]

Similar to our Commander in Chief, whether you like him or hate him there's no denying that he's brighter than you, more accomplished than you are, has more political acumen and knows his stuff in his field. To argue with either or them you need more than a cursory knowledge of the chosen subject matter.

^^^^^ Ok this wins... one of the best "you're wrong and here's why" sayings I've read in a while. Might have to use this as my signature if you're OK with it. Have to admit, although it does look like an argument between knowledge and stubbornness, there is quite a bit of good info in Frank's video and explanation. Thanks Frank!

 

[Graham]

Might have to use this as my signature if you're OK with it.

No worries, mate.

 

[0311 Hesco]

"Well, I doubt you are using the same rifle and handloads as me... There's no doubt every rifle is going to react differently, but for someone to say the temp only affects external ballistics seems ridiculous to me and goes against my personal experiences." [MENTION=17825]psinclair[/MENTION], Shut up psinclair, what do you know about shooting!.....I think I find this the most humorous. Everything else is just spewed from him is just pathetic.

 

[Punisher29073]

So..... I should not cock my leg and should keep my cartridges in my pants to maintain proper powder temperature? I'm just sayin....

Ryan

 

[jbell]

833 yards clean barrel cold bore with an immediate follow up shot both rounds touching, as some would say where is the third round to show a good group, my response I don't need it.

Nice job even if it is only 2 shots.

Also props to BattleAxe, good to see people testing the CB at distance.

I need to get off my ass and get involved in this thread, it is one of the more useful ones.

 

[ShtrRdy]

Not my results....

I've shot at minus 40F up here in the winter, to 110F in mid-summer with zero POI change at 100 yards....that's a little more temp swing that you had .3 at. That sounds like an equipment issue to me.

..... and if you look at Mr. Sinclair's Cold Bore Challenge target, you can see that his position is about as good as it gets. I wish I could be that consistent.

 

[BGE541]

He saw a picture on the internet, so it has to be right.

Hold on while i tie one arm behind my back... to take the pressure off.

Im picturing drown proofing with a rifle... lol

 

[pinsandpitons]

Just printed this off. well see how it goes! Will be shooting my AR-15 in .223

Whew! So anyway......

Did you ever get to this clayne-b? How'd it go?

 

[clayne_b]

I did not... Sold the AR-15 and go a bolt action in 6.5 Creedmoor, I will have to try it with that.

 

[Monmouth]

Cold bore to those who know what the definition is, is very simple, no warm up, no fiddle fucking around, you take your weapon and you make one shot whether that means you take it out of the case, sit or sleep with it all day it does not matter. If your weapon is zeroed properly and your body mechanics are right you will hit exactly what you are aiming at. If you are good the second follow up shot should hit where the first round went with no third or fourth shot, as Lowlight stated temp, barometric pressure and elevation are nothing at 100 yards. To be serious if someone you know is being held hostage and you have to send it with one round at 300 yards or less can you get the job done. Nothing like stress, duress and adrenaline to fuck up your day, if you are lucky one round is all it will take but you had better be damn well be prepared to send a second to get the job done. competition is never real life, a very simple motto that some stick to: "Train to fight or the reversal fight to train". Other words training will only take you so far what happens after that in the real world is on you!

833 yards clean barrel cold bore with an immediate follow up shot both rounds touching, as some would say where is the third round to show a good group, my response I don't need it.

Awesome! Thats why I come to read here, because men like you, graham, lowlight, etc get it done.... Consistently.

 

[Monmouth]

I'm going to print this up tomorrow and start the challenge.

 

[RobertB]

Just finished my last bullseye a few minutes ago. 70*F, only a slight breeze and clean air.

Cold bore fouled, cold bore clean, it didn't seem to matter.

Cold bore/clean bore= "Urban Myth".....to me anyway. I have had one or two rifle barrels that "threw" the first shot. They ended up in the garbage.

I don't get many chances to test the CCB vs CB.

Me and surgeon shooter went out a few weeks ago and I had cleaned both my surgeon with a Krieger and my GAP with a bartlien. Both are great shooters but the Krieger turned into like a 3MOA gun, maybe more,the GAP bartlien was as perfect as could be. I was impressed. And the scope was just put back on. I had been testing the scope lately and have found zero impact when remounting in the great badger rings in the same slots on my Templar. Very happy to say the least. I'm loving these bartliens. I shot the last one with no break in to 1000 rounds before cleaning. Didn't move a bit, cleaned at 1750 when I shot the time that I mention now. No need to clean much and no need to worry. Gun is a perfect laser.

 

[bm11]

Getting this back on track a bit.

My dumb ass didn't remember there was a required target. I hadn't seen this thread in months, and decided before going to the range to start this up.

In any case, here is where I start, today, with my AIAX. Barrel was swapped back on and cleaned 50 rounds ago, but zero'd from a bench. Maybe my zero was off .1 mil because of it? Who knows. In any case, I adjusted my zero down .1 mil and the rest of the rounds fired today were dead on elevation. AINA 22" .260 barrel, 900 and change rounds on it, Berger 140g Hybrid.

 

[jbell]

Here is my entry for the last 3 cold bore shots for my (new to me) AIAW. I only have 100 rounds on the rifle when I started this target trying a few different bullets. The first one on 2/1 was shot just after doing a load work up and the rifle was not zeroed for that load. I know it somewhat defeats the point of the thread by not being able to hit within 1 moa, but I figured what the hell. I had the ammo zeroed for the second target on 2/21 and am not sure why I am .1 up and right but the CB shot was in the main group. Same at the following day (today) CB was in the main group. All 3 targets so far have been shot with a dirty bore and have been 5 rounds. I will continue to shoot 5 rounds but will clean the bore for the next CB shot to get me some better info.



So far the rifle seems to be consistent and with this load is holding just around 0.5 MOA. I am going to stick with this load to see how it does at distance (when ever the snow melts up here so we can put out targets). I do think with a load better suited for short range the rifle could shoot a bit better. However I would rather have more speed, I need all the help I can get with the wind...

 

[cshann55]

Looks like a good test to try
Printing now

 

[Graham]

SH ColdBore Challenge ! Test yourself...

I zeroed my rifle at Rifles Only two days ago. A front came through. The barometer went from 29.97 to 30.12. I then gave the rifle to a friend who had never shot it before, with instructions to fire a cold bore and four follow-up shots at 100 yards. Here is the result:

 

[Emouse]

He' s using a big old front rest, they call that belly bench rest for a reason. He could get off the rifle and shoot it from the side it wouldn't matter. In that game his body position is meaningless. You do know that rest has a pin in the ground holding it in place right?

I have actually shot F class have you?





Admit you have no clue except what you read, and saw in pictures.

Tell us all too how the cold bore matters in f class especially after you shot multiple strings.

Frank ,..you shot F Class???

The shame of it,..how will we bear it LOL

 

[Graham]

SH ColdBore Challenge ! Test yourself...

OK, so to get as much of a cold bore deviation as possible I did the following:

1) Zeroed with an outside temp and ammo temp of 85F, on a dirty bore with 300 rounds fired, at 100 yards.
2) Cleaned all the copper from the bore.
3) Ran a patch of Kroil through the bore with no dry patch following it.
4) Very lightly coated the chamber with Shooters' Choice rust prevent using a chamber mop.

Then I shot five rounds with an ammo temp and outside temp at 35F, at 100 meters.

Here are the results, point of impact started .3 Mil low of the point of aim, and you can see the zero coming back with the copper fouling:

The final required adjustment for POA to equal POI was .2 Mils up.

 

[jbell]

I thoroughly cleaned the barrel and added a cold clean bore to my target. I am starting to get more comfortable with the AW after 5 years of a TRG.

 

[Lowlight]

I know it is a bit old, the conversation part, but here is me at the Spirit of America - F Class / Palma Match in Raton. Shot it several time.

That is me shooting with Michelle Gallagher with her Palma Rifle. She came a day late or something and was squadded with the F Class guys at the end next to me so her and I traded off off a relay.

But what I do I know compared to Dr. Google.

 

[jbell]

That is me shooting with Michelle Gallagher with her Palma Rifle.

Couldn't you have found a better coach? But in all seriousness how did you like slinging up with irons? I find it addictive...
How did you score?

 

[-R-]

Cold bore to those who know what the definition is, is very simple, no warm up, no fiddle fucking around, you take your weapon and you make one shot whether that means you take it out of the case, sit or sleep with it all day it does not matter. If your weapon is zeroed properly and your body mechanics are right you will hit exactly what you are aiming at. If you are good the second follow up shot should hit where the first round went with no third or fourth shot, as Lowlight stated temp, barometric pressure and elevation are nothing at 100 yards. To be serious if someone you know is being held hostage and you have to send it with one round at 300 yards or less can you get the job done. Nothing like stress, duress and adrenaline to fuck up your day, if you are lucky one round is all it will take but you had better be damn well be prepared to send a second to get the job done. competition is never real life, a very simple motto that some stick to: "Train to fight or the reversal fight to train". Other words training will only take you so far what happens after that in the real world is on you!

833 yards clean barrel cold bore with an immediate follow up shot both rounds touching, as some would say where is the third round to show a good group, my response I don't need it.

http://i1096.photobucket.com/albums/g327/whodat8/IMG_1583-2JPG.jpg[/MG][/URL][/QUOTE]

You just didnt want to mess up your group with a 3rd shot, everyone knows 2 shot groups dont count. :rolleyes:

/end sarcasm

Awesome shooting.

 

[Ring]

Also a website full of people could never hit a 5" x-ring at 1000 yards constantly... Not saying I could do it but i'm also not the one belittling another style of long range shooting.

you realize being a good bench shooter dont make you a good shooter right?... it makes you good at reloading...

a trained monkey could shoot as well with the same bench setup

 

[jbell]

you realize being a good bench shooter dont make you a good shooter right?... it makes you good at reloading...

a trained monkey could shoot as well with the same bench setup

There is actually more to it than being able to reload well. You need to match your loads to the conditions (some atmospherics can make a big change in a load when you split hairs that much), but the big one is as always the wind. Also getting your rest and rifle set up to track properly is not always that easy. Its just a different style of shooting, but I agree there is less human influence shooting benchrest at any distance than field shooting. Just my .02

 

[Graham]

I've heard people say that their zero changes when they go somewhere to shoot a match. So I zeroed at Rifles Only, sea level and 85 degrees. Then I come back to Michigan and shoot a cold bore at 750 feet and sixty five degrees. Not much of a zero shift:

 

[Lowlight]

I've heard people say that their zero changes when they go somewhere to shoot a match. So I zeroed at Rifles Only, sea level and 85 degrees. Then I come back to Michigan and shoot a cold bore at 750 feet and sixty five degrees. Not much of a zero shift:

Lies, Black Magic, Voodoo... Impossible.

Clearly you sold your soul to the devil in order to accomplish this, my guess it was on that hairpin corner towards Jacob's house, he is known to camp out there waiting for souls to entice.