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Rifle Scopes Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

M

MarkAlan

Private
Minuteman
Sep 30, 2010
30
0
57
Florida
I am stuck bettween the following:

NightForce F1
IOR 3.5-18X50
Vortex Razor

It’s going on a DMPS LR-308 that is used for both hunting and range work to 600 yards. Low light ability is a must as we do a lot of Hog hunting at night at ranges between 100-300 yards. I am currently using the Bushnell 4200 3-12x42 FFP and would like to step up to a scope with better low light ability.
Any help would be appreciated. I have only seen the F1 In person.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

IMHO you can't go wrong with the NF. I don't have any experience with the other scopes so I can't help too much. I have been very impressed with all NF scopes I've ever handled or looked through.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

I was in the exact same place you are, and I decided to go with the Razor over the Nightforce, because the Vortex had all of the same features as the Nightforce for a little less. The 35mm tube seemed like a mess when it came to mounting with the lack of options, but Badger is currently in the works for 35mm rings, and Vortex accually makes good rings for it already. You can't really go wrong with either though, as both are amazing scopes. I didn't really have a chance to research the IOR any, but people seem happy with them.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

Also seriously shop the used section if you have not already, there are some amazing deals to be found there. Good luck!
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MarkL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am stuck bettween the following:

NightForce F1
IOR 3.5-18X50
Vortex Razor

It’s going on a DMPS LR-308 that is used for both hunting and range work to 600 yards. Low light ability is a must as we do a lot of Hog hunting at night at ranges between 100-300 yards. I am currently using the Bushnell 4200 3-12x42 FFP and would like to step up to a scope with better low light ability.
Any help would be appreciated. I have only seen the F1 In person.
</div></div>

I'd pick the IOR out of the 3 choices.Best glass,10 mil knobs,ZS,push button illum,MP-8 ret,ocular does not turn with mag.It only has 22 mil total elev which could be better but no big deal if you're only going to be shooting out to 600Y.Also for night shooting/low light shooting the .1 mil line thickness is really going to help on low magnification.IMO best value per $ spent.

Incidentally I just bought a F1 but it has the H-58 reticle,HS,ZS.It's a really kick ass scope with these particular features,no regrets at all and it's a keeper for sure!If I didn't like the H-58 reticle so much I would have saved the $1000,got the IOR and not thought twice about it,mostly because I have the IOR 6-24x56 to compare with,which is a fantastic scope in it's own rite.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">It only has 22 mil total elev which could be better but no big deal if you're only going to be shooting out to 600Y.</div></div>

I've been using my IOR 3.5-18x50 on a 19.5" 6.5 Grendel, and I've been out to 700 yards without any sort of MOA slope on my mount (American Defense), and more than enough travel remaining to get to 1000.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smokin99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">German glass is so much better than Jap glass.....IOR hands down </div></div>The quality of the finished product, meaning ground and coated glass made into a scope lens, is not dependent on what nationality it claims to be. Besides, glass is one of the least important factors in choosing a scope. There is no comparison between the NF and the other two.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poorboyshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NF not made in usa nor IOR or VORTEX</div></div>

Nightforce F1 scopes ARE Made in USA... Says so clearly across the top... and on the NF site. NF F1 MADE IN USA

as well 22 MIls is huge, the average 308 only needs 11.5 Mils to 1000 yards why would you need better than 22 mils, that is silly. A S&B 4-16X only has 13 mils total.

Lastly, IOR has great glass and a terrible track record for reliability, so what good does glass do if the scope doesn't track ?

of the bunch the best one is the Nightforce, with Vortex being close by.

This is why the internet sucks, comparisons on "good glass" yet sub par reliability and false information on where things are made.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
Lastly, IOR has great glass and a terrible track record for reliability, so what good does glass do if the scope doesn't track ?

of the bunch the best one is the Nightforce, with Vortex being close by.

This is why the internet sucks, comparisons on "good glass" yet sub par reliability and false information on where things are made. </div></div>

I always say glass is not the most important thing in a scope but people never listen. Being able to see you target is great but if your internals don't work then you will be able to just see your misses nice and clear
wink.gif


NF or Vortex would be my choice. Have owned and used both and they both work well.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

I'm not a fan of the Vortex adjustments, and 35mm is worse than useless because you can't mount the scope low enough. But that's just my opinion.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

35mm rings aren't any higher than the 34mm I use on my S&Bs. I have mounted my Razor on a couple rifles and never had a problem with it being too high. Lowest set is .95". Not much higher than the NF low .885" but the F1 actually comes with 1" height rings.

The Vortex adjustments are pretty nice actually in that when you set zero you don't have to be a click high or low as sometimes happens. You can set a true zero as with the outer elevation knob off there are no clicks, only graduation lines. You can set it between the lines to be right on.

 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

You guys need to make a trip out here to MT and do some PDog shooting with us at long range, then maybe you would see what Im talking about, come when Augustis is holding a match and we could go do that too. Not talking about the old IORs I agree they have a shaddy track record Im talking about the new ones, glass is awesome and they track flawless!

I must of really messed up in selling 6 NF and replaced them with IORs....I think not but thats my opinion

 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smokin99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys need to make a trip out here to MT and do some PDog shooting with us at long range, then maybe you would see what Im talking about, come when Augustis is holding a match and we could go do that too. Not talking about the old IORs I agree they have a shaddy track record Im talking about the new ones, glass is awesome and they track flawless!

I must of really messed up in selling 6 NF and replaced them with IORs....I think not but thats my opinion

</div></div>

Please,

Which is why IOR has the "Gen 4" of the same scope which has only been out for a few years... there is a reason it's listed as GEN 4, because GENs, 1 through 3 didn't work.

Glad you like your IOR, I'll stick to stuff that works.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

I'll differ with some here a bit and say in my opinion for hunting in low light and at night glass quality is very important. Especially when that's the whole reason the OP wants a new scope in the first place. Good easily adjustable illumination is also important.

Of those three I'd go with the IOR.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Smokin99</div><div class="ubbcode-body">You guys need to make a trip out here to MT and do some PDog shooting with us at long range, then maybe you would see what Im talking about, come when Augustis is holding a match and we could go do that too. Not talking about the old IORs I agree they have a shaddy track record Im talking about the new ones, glass is awesome and they track flawless!

I must of really messed up in selling 6 NF and replaced them with IORs....I think not but thats my opinion

</div></div>

Please,

Which is why IOR has the "Gen 4" of the same scope which has only been out for a few years... there is a reason it's listed as GEN 4, because GENs, 1 through 3 didn't work.

Glad you like your IOR, I'll stick to stuff that works. </div></div>

I agree with you and Rob concerning the older IOR's.You're telling the truth about the problem Gen 1-3 IOR's.Although I doubt it was "every" model of scope they made.I have a close friend that owned 2 of the problem scopes.IOR replaced them with newer Gen models.

I'm sure I'm not telling you guys anything you don't already know concerning scope reliability issues with "all the brands".You must also hear about allot more problems than I do.They all have had problems here and there.For instance I had a NF that had a problem with the elevation turret.Another guy who's a Mod here on the Hide had a F1 that was DOA.My same friend with the IOR's bought a Razor and had to send it right back because it didn't track correctly.I know 2 tactical shooters that had their S&B's go down during matches.One of them was likely in contention for 1st place.The other said he had to send his back overseas more than a few times.I saw a Leupold quit dialing elevation altogether and I pulled the only Leupold I have left out of the case a couple weeks ago discovering that the side focus was broken off.PH had various problems,another friend of mine had shifting zero problems at the TPRC with one.A couple months ago a guys objective unscrewed on his USO and my USO has been sent back once.

So maybe it's time to give IOR some mercy ? You'd give Leupold a second chance when they fix their issues won't you ?
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

Time will tell on the new Gens. Hopefully they made improvements.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: poorboyshooter</div><div class="ubbcode-body">NF not made in usa nor IOR or VORTEX</div></div>

Nightforce F1 scopes ARE Made in USA... Says so clearly across the top... and on the NF site. NF F1 MADE IN USA

as well 22 MIls is huge, the average 308 only needs 11.5 Mils to 1000 yards why would you need better than 22 mils, <span style="color: #FF0000">that is silly.</span> A S&B 4-16X only has 13 mils total.

Lastly, IOR has great glass and a terrible track record for reliability, so what good does glass do if the scope doesn't track ?

of the bunch the best one is the Nightforce, with Vortex being close by.

This is why the internet sucks, comparisons on "good glass" yet sub par reliability and false information on where things are made. </div></div>

Not if you shoot at a mile on occasion and would rather not holdover a for the rest and that's even with a flat shooting cartridge.
wink.gif


For comparison the Razor has 36 mils total elevation and the NF about 30 mils.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

The Razor was, arguably, a better choice even before they addressed the ocular issue, and updated the reticle to the EBR2B.

F1 and IOR pretty much left in its dust now...
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

Glass quality between them all is comparable. IOR is the best in that category but unless you have amazing eyeballs or are really picky you won't notice or won't care. What you really need to do is look at the knobs, reticles, and other features and make your decision based on that.

Also, all these scopes are heavy; if you are hunting with it you won't want to carry it far. You could probably do what you want to do with an IOR 2.5-10 or NF 2.5-10 and save a few bucks. I have seen several guys on here hunting with nf 2.5-10's and they all sounded happy with them, and the IOR 2.5-10 is FFP with great glass, illumination and has historically better reliability than the 3-18x42 (predecessor the 50MM you are looking at). Just my 2 cents, take it for what it is worth.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

If you shot a mile, change your zero... pretty simple and not many scopes offer more than 22 mils, not to mention this guy didnt say anything about shooting a mile with his DPMS 308, I get, it says LR, but seriously.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

When someone says "made in America" I assume everything was made in America. I would say it was ASSEMBLED in America but highly doubt the parts were made in America. I believe the glass for the NF is made in Japan but don't hold me to that.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

You'd be surprised what NF is doing... many didn't get to see the "Beast" at SHOT as it was not out for public display, but let me tell you, it is also Made in USA including the glass.

Once the "Beast" is release for the public all bets are off, the design is new, giving an eye box and eye relief that can only be compared with Hensoldt, the glass coatings are new, vivid is a word I would use, in fact the only optic to come close to the new NF offering is a Leica Spotting scope. That is the new standard they are setting for themselves.

Nightforce has always focused on Resolution and not high color or contrast like other scopes. But I have never not seen or hit a target because I was using a Nightforce scope...
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

I have owned all three scopes. I still own a IOR. That said I run a NF 2.5-10x32 NXS on m POF 308. I think if your gonna use it to hunt you would go with something lighter.

If you must have one of the scopes you posted, I would go with the NEW Vortex HD. I had the older one and like everything about it, but the eye box. Since they have fixed that problem they (IMO) would be better the NF.

I am an IOR fan. However, I don't have any experience with it shooting in lowlight conditions and the IOR has a yellow tint too it. This yellow tint, to me, makes it look less bright than a S&B scope; so for lowlight conditions wouldn't be my first pick.

Glass: IOR glass, to me, is better than NF or Vortex HD in day light conditions. NF and Vortex HD, to me, are the same quality of glass. You won't go wrong with any of them. For me I would go with something lighter for hunting.

Jamie
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

Between those 3, the F1.

IOR's reliability is way too in question for me. If the new Gen 4's are solid that's great but they couldn't get the first 3 right so they are going to have to really prove themselves for awhile before I'd consider one.

Vortex....it has nice features and glass, but I absolutely will not own a scope with that HUGE of knobs, I don't care why they had to make it that big, but any bigger and you'd need both hands to turn the thing. Also personally I don't think the Razor has proven itself, maybe after another year. 35mm tube was just flat out stupid, I'm sorry I know companies will slowly make rings for them but 34mm was the standard, there were tons of great 34mm mounts already ready to go.

The F1, maybe not top glass, but there's a reason you almost never hear of people complaining about NF scopes either breaking or not tracking right etc. etc. NF never brings anything to market that has not be tested, and retested, unlike other optic companies that let their early buyers be beta testers to work out the kinks. It's not perfect either, but of those 3 it's the only one I'd own.

It will be interesting to see the Beast, but frankly if this is going to be another $3500 or god forbid higher scope offering I won't be buying one anyway, not to mention it's vaporware for the civilian market, until it's on store shelves it's not even worth considering.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body"><div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MarkL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am stuck bettween the following:

NightForce F1
IOR 3.5-18X50
Vortex Razor

It’s going on a DMPS LR-308 that is used for both hunting and range work to 600 yards. Low light ability is a must as we do a lot of Hog hunting at night at ranges between 100-300 yards. I am currently using the Bushnell 4200 3-12x42 FFP and would like to step up to a scope with better low light ability.
Any help would be appreciated. I have only seen the F1 In person.
</div></div>

I'd pick the IOR out of the 3 choices.Best glass,10 mil knobs,ZS,push button illum,MP-8 ret,ocular does not turn with mag.It only has 22 mil total elev which could be better but <span style="color: #FF0000">no big deal if you're only going to be shooting out to 600Y.</span>Also for night shooting/low light shooting the .1 mil line thickness is really going to help on low magnification.IMO best value per $ spent.

Incidentally I just bought a F1 but it has the H-58 reticle,HS,ZS.It's a really kick ass scope with these particular features,no regrets at all and it's a keeper for sure!If I didn't like the H-58 reticle so much I would have saved the $1000,got the IOR and not thought twice about it,mostly because I have the IOR 6-24x56 to compare with,which is a fantastic scope in it's own rite. </div></div>

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Lowlight</div><div class="ubbcode-body">If you shot a mile, change your zero... pretty simple and not many scopes offer more than 22 mils, not to mention this guy didnt say anything about shooting a mile with his DPMS 308, I get, it says LR, but seriously. </div></div>

Concerning the 22 mils elevation on the IOR.

Since I don't know what the OP's individual personal priorities/preferences in a scopes features would be ??? I was just presenting some specifics for him in case it was a consideration.Who knows...maybe later he'd be mounting whatever scope he buys on another rifle like a 338L for instance and wishing he had more elevation.There's a few times I can look back at scope purchases and wishing I'd done things a little differently because I thought a certain feature didn't matter at the time.I didn't realize I was being so silly,LOL.

I'm glad you informed us about the new Beast that NF will be bringing out! By you're description I want one already
grin.gif
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Swan</div><div class="ubbcode-body">The Razor was, arguably, a better choice even before they addressed the ocular issue, and updated the reticle to the EBR2B.

F1 and IOR pretty much left in its dust now...</div></div>
+1
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: steve123</div><div class="ubbcode-body">
I'm glad you informed us about the new Beast that NF will be bringing out! By you're description I want one already
grin.gif
</div></div>

Considering it has 25 mils in a single turn, you probably would...
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

Thank's everyone I have a call into Scott. I am going to try the IOR. As far as weight I use a 45-70 guide gun with scout scope. My LR-308 is for laying down hogs out of a tall box blind. Which we drive to in a Polaris ranger.

PS. I do have a LR-338 upper on order.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

Speaking of new scopes wait till you see the new 12-52x56 IOR with 100MOA of adjustment, we have it in our shop now and Ill do some testing with it on Tuesday.

We put a 4-14x56 IOR with the HR5 reticle on Randy Andersons and Shawn Hydens rifle (Coyote Callers makers of Calling all Coyotes videos) and the low light shooting with these scopes are outstanding! Yes these are great low light scopes.

MarkL congrats on your new purchase, make sure you give us a review when you get your scope in.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

Scott was on the road and shipping all the Vortex PST's that came in today (there will be a lot of you that ordered the PST that should have them in your hands this week). I caught him on the road midafternoon and talked scopes. Then I called IOR and Vortex just to see what I get. After an Hour on the phone with Vortex answering my questions, I was sold. Their customer service is the best I have ever experienced. Just got off the phone with Scott and should have the Vortex Razor HD 5-20X50 on Friday. Thank you for all the help. It should serve me well and with the help that Vortex provided today, I truly believe that I will always be in good hands.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MarkL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I am stuck bettween the following:

NightForce F1
IOR 3.5-18X50
Vortex Razor

It’s going on a DMPS LR-308 that is used for both hunting and range work to 600 yards. Low light ability is a must as we do a lot of Hog hunting at night at ranges between 100-300 yards. I am currently using the Bushnell 4200 3-12x42 FFP and would like to step up to a scope with better low light ability.
Any help would be appreciated. I have only seen the F1 In person.
</div></div>I would like to suggest, whatever brand/model/county of origin etc, get an IR! As you plan on hunting hogs, this really comes in handy-The laws in the Southern states regarding night hunting etc. are changing and as long as you are shooting hogs you can hunt all night in some places-here in TN we are even allowing the use of dogs-something the state almost doesn't allow for hunting big game. (if you have a minute, check out the Tennessee Wildlife and Resource Man. Website, no limit 365-the state wants them all). The pigs are hard to see, but with a spotlot, and IR on a good scope you'll be "bringing home the bacon"-I had to say it.
 
Re: Stuck On New Scope Purchase!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: MarkL</div><div class="ubbcode-body">We use 2 SENDERO RPG 1500L Hog lights and we can see over 200 yards with our scopes.

http://www.feederlights.com/ </div></div>
Sir, that sounds good-real good, how is the hunting? Post some photos if you have any! Are you using dogs? Tell us a little about your bullet selection, and how they've worked out. Pig hunting is something, every hunter in the U.S. should try-they'll get hooked!
 
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