The truth needs to be discovered on this

G

Gunga

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Full Member
Minuteman
Nov 9, 2013
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#1
The truth needs to come out on this.

Family Alleges VA Police Killed Vet | The Daily Caller

“Later on, one of the nurses at the VA Hospital in Loma Linda took Norma Montano aside, and told her that her husband didn’t fall, but was slammed to the ground by the VA Police, that Norma Montano was being lied to, and that it wasn’t right what the VA Police did to Jonathan Montano,” the suit alleges.

Read more: http://dailycaller.com/2014/05/27/family-alleges-va-police-killed-vet/#ixzz331ANpRvD
 
#2
I saw that but didn't post because there are too many bad cop stories posted here. Doesn't mean they aren't true.
 
#7
I'm not one to see a scandal in everything. My grandfather in the advanced stages of dementia became combative, having security help restrain him was common. Its a sad story, but say cops killed may be little extreme. It hurts to lose a family member but I don't understand the need to assign blame in every situation.
 
#8
Maybe, just maybe there are some fucked up people in this world. Politicians, Doctors, Lawyers, Firemen, Fucken Cops, Priests, Military Personnel, Fathers, Uncles, Yada Fucking Yada. Jesus Christ, get over it already. And if ya wanna keep the fuck fuck games up then get off your asses and do something about it. There absolutely has to be something else to fixate on, but probably not.

Regarding this fucked up incident we'll see. But I'm telling ya, outta all those fucked up Cops out there those VA Mother Fucking Cops are the worst of the worst. They gotta be. Look at all the fucked up Vets they gotta put up with. Hopefully this is dumbed down to the hater level.

1J04

Out
 
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#9
For whatever it is worth, there are many really good people in LE...the problem is that there are also many truly horrible ones. The guys I used to work with were among the really good ones that never beat people, planted evidence, or lie to make things go their way. They followed the rules and accepted that following those rules meant that the bad guys would sometimes win.

What we (the group of us that functioned that way) learned was that the truly "professional" crooks also followed the rules that both sides understood, and when the rules were followed, there were no hard feelings when we would bust 'em, and similarly, no hard feelings when one side or the other lost. Most of the "professional" crooks realize that occasionally getting busted was simply the price of doing business...just as we accepted the occasional loss.

The problem is that with law enforcement, and warfare, it isn't the professionals that screw things up, it is the amateurs that foul things up so badly. And we had an intense hatred of crooked cops, or anyone in law enforcement who didn't follow the rules as they fucked up so much of the hard work we struggled to build.

But, bad crooks, and bad cops all come from the same population base, so it makes sense that there will be bad apples in almost every barrel.
 
#10
DocUSMCRetired said:
Maybe their are just too many bad cops?
Click to expand...

Or one might choose to think that there are to many bad LE leaders adapting bad policies and protocols with insufficient training for the marginal candidates that they hire and the inability to get rid of the bad ones.

I might argue that, when most of this is root caused, its failed policy/training/recruitment and retention that is the issue and not individual LEO's. And, yes, there are dill weeds in every org.
 
#11
Unknown said:
For whatever it is worth, there are many really good people in LE...the problem is that there are also many truly horrible ones. The guys I used to work with were among the really good ones that never beat people, planted evidence, or lie to make things go their way. They followed the rules and accepted that following those rules meant that the bad guys would sometimes win.

What we (the group of us that functioned that way) learned was that the truly "professional" crooks also followed the rules that both sides understood, and when the rules were followed, there were no hard feelings when we would bust 'em, and similarly, no hard feelings when one side or the other lost. Most of the "professional" crooks realize that occasionally getting busted was simply the price of doing business...just as we accepted the occasional loss.

The problem is that with law enforcement, and warfare, it isn't the professionals that screw things up, it is the amateurs that foul things up so badly. And we had an intense hatred of crooked cops, or anyone in law enforcement who didn't follow the rules as they fucked up so much of the hard work we struggled to build.

But, bad crooks, and bad cops all come from the same population base, so it makes sense that there will be bad apples in almost every barrel.
Click to expand...

EDIT: not right to put that on your shoulders... thanks for your Insight

Thank you for taking your job seriously and hopefully doing it the Constitutionally Correct way. Wish there were more like you.
 
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#12
Unknown said:
For whatever it is worth, there are many really good people in LE...the problem is that there are also many truly horrible ones. The guys I used to work with were among the really good ones that never beat people, planted evidence, or lie to make things go their way. They followed the rules and accepted that following those rules meant that the bad guys would sometimes win.

What we (the group of us that functioned that way) learned was that the truly "professional" crooks also followed the rules that both sides understood, and when the rules were followed, there were no hard feelings when we would bust 'em, and similarly, no hard feelings when one side or the other lost. Most of the "professional" crooks realize that occasionally getting busted was simply the price of doing business...just as we accepted the occasional loss.

The problem is that with law enforcement, and warfare, it isn't the professionals that screw things up, it is the amateurs that foul things up so badly. And we had an intense hatred of crooked cops, or anyone in law enforcement who didn't follow the rules as they fucked up so much of the hard work we struggled to build.

But, bad crooks, and bad cops all come from the same population base, so it makes sense that there will be bad apples in almost every barrel.
Click to expand...

HD1911 said:
EDIT: not right to put that on your shoulders... thanks for your Insight

Thank you for taking your job seriously and hopefully doing it the Constitutionally Correct way. Wish there were more like you.
Click to expand...

This^^^^
 
#14
My question is, Where were the other vets at. We need to help protect each other. This should never happen to any vet or any citizen when they are trying to get help. The new generation of police officers think they are military and treat people no respect. We need to get that back.
 
#16
Unknown said:
For whatever it is worth, there are many really good people in LE...the problem is that there are also many truly horrible ones. The guys I used to work with were among the really good ones that never beat people, planted evidence, or lie to make things go their way. They followed the rules and accepted that following those rules meant that the bad guys would sometimes win.

What we (the group of us that functioned that way) learned was that the truly "professional" crooks also followed the rules that both sides understood, and when the rules were followed, there were no hard feelings when we would bust 'em, and similarly, no hard feelings when one side or the other lost. Most of the "professional" crooks realize that occasionally getting busted was simply the price of doing business...just as we accepted the occasional loss.

The problem is that with law enforcement, and warfare, it isn't the professionals that screw things up, it is the amateurs that foul things up so badly. And we had an intense hatred of crooked cops, or anyone in law enforcement who didn't follow the rules as they fucked up so much of the hard work we struggled to build.

But, bad crooks, and bad cops all come from the same population base, so it makes sense that there will be bad apples in almost every barrel.
Click to expand...

I wish more LE took this stance. You hear about crooked cops every day and supposedly good cops chime in and say that there are very few crooked ones. But when a "good" cop protects his crooked brother it makes them just as guilty. My hats off to you and your department if it is run like you said it is run and I have respect for that. I wish there were more like that. Hell... All departments should be run that way.
 
#17
I completely agree that anyone who protects a crooked officer is just as guilty of not doing things the right way. That is one of the rules that good guys are SUPPOSED to play by.

I took lots of crooks to jail, and once they realized that I would neither lie, or set them up, they began to accept the bust with less anger towards me. After a time, those who I repeatedly took to jail stopped blaming me for their problems, and began to realize that it was their own mistakes that caused the problem. I was just doing my job, and when I accepted that them being crooks wasn't anything against me personally, I realized that they too were just doing their job.

Law enforcement is like any other profession. I have run into lousy, crooked cops, lawyers, judges, doctors, and just about any other profession. The problem is that those in law enforcement are more visible, and are (rightly) held to a higher standard of conduct. Many people disagree with me about the "rightly" held to a higher standard of conduct, but I felt that it was the price of hoping to earn the public's trust. Other professions that are usually held to a higher standard of conduct (besides law enforcement) are politicians, clergy, doctors, and just about any other group that wants more of the public's trust and/or respect.

I was raised to believe that if you want someone's respect and/or trust, either one has to be earned. No person is entitled to respect, or trust without earning it first. Sure, you can respect the rank without respecting the person, but that is different...the actual person has to earn trust and/or respect. I never minded earning either.
 
#18
take it how you want. they are being taught to deal with citizens as though they are combatants and threats is what he means. they are told each traffic stop could be your last even though there are less police killed each year than convenience store clerks. they are allowed to put on their nazi gear and kick down doors write their own warrants. confiscate things and sell them for money for themselves. now if that does not invite corruption then i do not know what would. shoot people who are fleeing in cars. i remember a time when a police man could not draw his gun unless he sees a weapon. the militarization of our police forces should be of grave concern to all that love freedom in my opinion.
 
#19
Unknown said:
I completely agree that anyone who protects a crooked officer is just as guilty of not doing things the right way. That is one of the rules that good guys are SUPPOSED to play by.

I took lots of crooks to jail, and once they realized that I would neither lie, or set them up, they began to accept the bust with less anger towards me. After a time, those who I repeatedly took to jail stopped blaming me for their problems, and began to realize that it was their own mistakes that caused the problem. I was just doing my job, and when I accepted that them being crooks wasn't anything against me personally, I realized that they too were just doing their job.

Law enforcement is like any other profession. I have run into lousy, crooked cops, lawyers, judges, doctors, and just about any other profession. The problem is that those in law enforcement are more visible, and are (rightly) held to a higher standard of conduct. Many people disagree with me about the "rightly" held to a higher standard of conduct, but I felt that it was the price of hoping to earn the public's trust. Other professions that are usually held to a higher standard of conduct (besides law enforcement) are politicians, clergy, doctors, and just about any other group that wants more of the public's trust and/or respect.

I was raised to believe that if you want someone's respect and/or trust, either one has to be earned. No person is entitled to respect, or trust without earning it first. Sure, you can respect the rank without respecting the person, but that is different...the actual person has to earn trust and/or respect. I never minded earning either.
Click to expand...

Your a rare one, brother, because unfortunately, the next quote is true, and as doc said above, it scares me.

supercorndogs said:
take it how you want. they are being taught to deal with citizens as though they are combatants and threats is what he means. they are told each traffic stop could be your last even though there are less police killed each year than convenience store clerks. they are allowed to put on their nazi gear and kick down doors write their own warrants. confiscate things and sell them for money for themselves. now if that does not invite corruption then i do not know what would. shoot people who are fleeing in cars. i remember a time when a police man could not draw his gun unless he sees a weapon. the militarization of our police forces should be of grave concern to all that love freedom in my opinion.
Click to expand...

Once you know who is really behind that militarization and understand why...well, its a real eye opener.
 
#21
supercorndogs said:
take it how you want. they are being taught to deal with citizens as though they are combatants and threats is what he means. they are told each traffic stop could be your last even though there are less police killed each year than convenience store clerks. they are allowed to put on their nazi gear and kick down doors write their own warrants. confiscate things and sell them for money for themselves. now if that does not invite corruption then i do not know what would. shoot people who are fleeing in cars. i remember a time when a police man could not draw his gun unless he sees a weapon. the militarization of our police forces should be of grave concern to all that love freedom in my opinion.
Click to expand...

This is one of our biggest problems right now. We have a military, its not the police's job to be it.
 
#22
DocUSMCRetired said:
Maybe their are just too many bad cops?
Click to expand...

In reality there is really not. MOST of us go to work everyday, do our job to the best of our ability and take pride in what we do. MOST of us don't accept bribes, beat people up for no reason, or are trigger happy. The liberal media just like to harp and post the negative when they rarely see the many good things we do on a daily basis.
 
#28
Pusher591 said:
In reality there is really not. MOST of us go to work everyday, do our job to the best of our ability and take pride in what we do. MOST of us don't accept bribes, beat people up for no reason, or are trigger happy. The liberal media just like to harp and post the negative when they rarely see the many good things we do on a daily basis.
Click to expand...

I hate dirty cops as much as anyone but we've got to be fair.


News Distribution Network, Inc.

the militarization of our police forces should be of grave concern to all that love freedom in my opinion.
 
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#30
1J04 said:
Maybe, just maybe there are some fucked up people in this world. Politicians, Doctors, Lawyers, Firemen, Fucken Cops, Priests, Military Personnel, Fathers, Uncles, Yada Fucking Yada. Jesus Christ, get over it already. And if ya wanna keep the fuck fuck games up then get off your asses and do something about it. There absolutely has to be something else to fixate on, but probably not.

Regarding this fucked up incident we'll see. But I'm telling ya, outta all those fucked up Cops out there those VA Mother Fucking Cops are the worst of the worst. They gotta be. Look at all the fucked up Vets they gotta put up with. Hopefully this is dumbed down to the hater level.

1J04

Out
Click to expand...

So...why are the cops the only group that earned a 'fucken'? Fucken 1J04, if ya ask me
 
#32
SniperCJ said:
So...why are the cops the only group that earned a 'fucken'? Fucken 1J04, if ya ask me
Click to expand...

Settle down Betty. Do a little research like what side of the fence I'm on before I smudge your lens :)

Because I'm a Vet and an Officer. My dark humor. Thought it would fit in well for the Hater Club. :)
 
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#33
A little cut and paste, I guess those of you that are not Vets don't know this, the rest of us do:
By 1973 U.S. federal law, the guard force was abolished and the VA Police (0083 series) was established. The President and Congress made this decision due in part to the changing needs of the VA and an increase in police-related matters not usually handled by a guard force or community law enforcement agencies. The agency has expanded in size since its inception and it now constitutes the largest uniformed federal police agency in the United States.
 
#34
dynamic research said:
Eddie NFL You can take that remark anyway you want. I am a retired combat wounded vet and have been in the VA system for the last 11 years. As I said we need to take care of each other and that's the end of the story.
Click to expand...

Well, what did you mean? Your sentence equates GIs (I was one) with militaristic police who do not treat people with respect.
The new generation of police officers think they are military and treat people no respect.
Click to expand...
 
#35
EddieNFL said:
Well, what did you mean? Your sentence equates GIs (I was one) with militaristic police who do not treat people with respect.
Click to expand...

I would assume he meant that some police officers walk the street like they are walking the streets of a combat zone, and that every person whom they feel looks the least bit outta place should be beaten/shot. Which there is nothing wrong with that in a combat zone in another country. Ie military. However that mentality may be going a little to far dealing with the majority of citizens headed to the walmart ie police.
 
#36
the jeep has it correct. You cant treat free people like they have no rights. We treated our noncoms better then some of the police treat our own citizens. To serve and protect does not apply anymore. Try fighting a traffic ticket where the video has no evidence showing any wrong doing. It becomes he said, she said, and the cop will always win because he is the professional and they don't lie. Look at the video of the police officer threating to shoot a ccw holder during a traffic stop. Was he fired, no and the evidence was on video. it took two more reported incidence for this officer to be punished, If you did the same thing you would be in jail so fast its not funny. But police officers know that they are covered. Tell me if someone caring a gun told you that he was going to put 10 rounds from his glock in your head and go home tonight and sleep well, and his partner would back him up that it was a justified shooting. What would you do. As docUSMCretired stated, why don't they publish shootings and excessive use of force to the public. These are questions we need to ask ourselves and decide is this the way we want to be treated? There are many more stories I an personally attest to from my time as a paramedic.
 
#37
I worked at a job once where there were some serious asshats. No one really paid much attention.
I worked at this other place where there was some serious asshats, and the bosses backed them up 100%.
I worked at this other place where there were some serious asshats, and they got fired immediately.

One of those three is your police, and all of those three are your police.

Smokey says, only you can prevent forest fires.
 
#38
thejeep said:
I would assume he meant that some police officers walk the street like they are walking the streets of a combat zone, and that every person whom they feel looks the least bit outta place should be beaten/shot. Which there is nothing wrong with that in a combat zone in another country. Ie military. However that mentality may be going a little to far dealing with the majority of citizens headed to the walmart ie police.
Click to expand...

I'm sure he did. His sentence structure didn't quite pull it off. No harm/no foul. Just pointing out how it could be misunderstood.
 
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