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This lawsuit is worse than the McDonald’s hot coffee

Jgault

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Aug 26, 2020
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Keller, Texas

Michigan car owner sued after Jeep kills mechanic during oil change.​



Short version guy leaves his Jeep for a oil change, a employee who didn’t know how to drive ran over another employee. The car owner is being sued because he “lent” the car to the employee who didn’t have a drivers license. This is now the dumbest argument I’ve ever heard a attorney make.
 
Guess which dealership will probably be closing their service shop due to lack of customers.
 
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There is -some- good news. The trial judge is requiring the dealership to indemnify the jeep owner of a all liability.
If I was the keep owner, I’m thinking of getting on the stand and saying something like “I hope this esteemed jury awards $10 Billion in punitive damages to the plaintiff’s family. (Which the dealer will get stuck with).
THEN the ridiculous Michigan law will get changed ASAP.
 
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This is a legal maneuver for the dead guy’s family to be able to sue the dealership. Workers Comp should be the sole remedy so the family can’t sue the dealership. ( specifics vary by state).

The dealership’s insurance will pay for legal fees and settlements because the owner of the vehicle has no negligence in this case.

I see these claims all the time in the construction/energy space. I am in the insurance business and definitely not a lawyer.

The hot coffee suit is way worse than this one.
 
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This is like suing Remington for a gun used in a crime. Nothing changed when they settled.
 
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So... who parked the damn thing with it still in gear... then trusted a stupid-ass teenager to start it?

AND, who the hell allowed a law to pass that says you can't sue your boss for negligence?
The law actually makes sense, you can sue your employer for negligence if it was the company at fault, you can’t sue the employer for negligence if said negligence is the fault of a employee doing something they weren’t supposed to. In this case the employee most likely didn’t have permission from the employer to operate vehicles but only gopher duties. If say the employer knew he couldn’t drive and let him anyway then the employer could have been held liable.
 
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It is more like suing a homeowner for slipping on ice on their porch.

The court has ordered that the Dealership will indemnify the owner if the owner is found negligent. In other words, the Dealership's insurance is on the hook, regardless of how this pans out...
 
This is a legal maneuver for the dead guy’s family to be able to sue the dealership. Workers Comp should be the sole remedy so the family can’t sue the dealership. ( specifics vary by state).

The dealership’s insurance will pay for legal fees and settlements because the owner of the vehicle has no negligence in this case.

I see these claims all the time in the construction/energy space. I am in the insurance business and definitely not a lawyer.

The hot coffee suit is way worse than this one.
Actually I think it is worse, this is the equivalent of me getting sued because I owned the car that the person spilt hot coffee on themselves in.
 
Just pass the buck. They cannot legally sue the business or the business owner because of the boss negligence thing. So they'll sue the car owner. Then the car owner will sue the dealership. The attorneys just keep making money.
 
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From the article...

According to a summary filed in court on March 1, the court has ordered the Rochester Hills Chrysler Jeep Dodge dealership, where the incident occurred, to indemnify Diaz-Navarro if he is found liable of negligence.


"So in reality, the owner is going to be held responsible, but the dealership’s insurance company is paying," Femminineo told McClatchy News. He said he hopes a verdict in excess of $15 million is awarded.
 
I don’t care if this is a workaround for the family of the dead mechanic, it’s total bullshit that shouldn’t be allowed. Period.

You want a workaround? Sue the unlicensed worker who drove the car or the parents if the driver was a minor. That at least has some moral/ethical merit.
 
I mentioned on another forum that I don't buy the story of the kid running over the co-worker all because he didn't know how to drive a stick. Have you ever seen or trained a n00b how to drive stick before? Do they lose control of the vehicle or do they instantly kill the engine? Personally I feel there was horseplay involved which lead to the death. Not stick shift ignorance.
 
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I mentioned on another forum that I don't buy the story of the kid running over the co-worker all because he didn't know how to drive a stick. Have you ever seen or trained a n00b how to drive stick before? Do they lose control of the vehicle or do they instantly kill the engine? Personally I feel there was horseplay involved which lead to the death. Not stick shift ignorance.
My first vehicle was a standard transmission GMC Sierra. I also had to cut keys at my job, back when that was still a manual skill. And, I had to teach new employees how to cut keys. I used my truck key because it was worn and 2 sided. (Worn keys are harder to cut and make work- as are 2 sided keys- so it was a good example for new users). We had a new person start and I was showing her how to cut the key. The final test was to actually use it, so I pointed to my pickup and said "Go make sure it works." She ran outside and started the pickup. Thankfully the curb in front of the tires was both tall and squared off, because when she dropped the clutch, the pickup jumped almost a foot into the air. I totally believe this could happen, because I have seen it happen.
 
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One more perspective from my personal experience.

As a sixteen yo, I worked for a local Food dealership as a prep boy. That meant cleaning out cars, washing them and any other menial jobs that others don’t want to do. Shortly, they had me moving cars in lot, undercoating them with garbage tar crap (that was sold as a brand name rustproofing product) and operating other machinery and equipment. Great for me as I gained valueable experience and early knowledge of how many businesses cut corners and do shady things for money.

Then one day they had me driving cars 30 miles away to another dealership, never asking me if I had a license, not caring. When I mentioned to the adult I worked for that I didn’t have a license, he told me to just follow him, no problem. Okay.

Point being that while the minor may have been physically at fault, he wanted the job and did as he was told. This still falls on the business owner and whomever the minor directly reported to. You know that the minor don’t just decide to drive the Jeep because he wanted to do so.
 
I mentioned on another forum that I don't buy the story of the kid running over the co-worker all because he didn't know how to drive a stick. Have you ever seen or trained a n00b how to drive stick before? Do they lose control of the vehicle or do they instantly kill the engine? Personally I feel there was horseplay involved which lead to the death. Not stick shift ignorance.
The only reason I can see stick shift ignorance is because in my sons garage he has 5 mechanics working, none can drive a stick shift. He literally has to move the car for them.
 
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The McDonald's lawsuit hinged on whether the company knew they were serving coffee hot enough to cause injury if spilled. They did. That is negligence...
 
The McDonald's lawsuit hinged on whether the company knew they were serving coffee hot enough to cause injury if spilled. They did. That is negligence...

That was some fucked shit right there. For those who don't know, the reason why McDonald's used to serve their coffee so freaking hot was to discourage people from getting refills because by the time it managed to cool down, the customer would already be done with their food and on their way out the door. Must be some expensive coffee if they had to be so conservative with it. Soda on the other hand they just give that shit away.

As a guy I cringe everytime that story gets brought up because I have spilled hot soup on my lap many times and was nowhere near how hot McDonald's coffee is. :eek:
 
That was some fucked shit right there. For those who don't know, the reason why McDonald's used to serve their coffee so freaking hot was to discourage people from getting refills because by the time it managed to cool down, the customer would already be done with their food and on their way out the door. Must be some expensive coffee if they had to be so conservative with it. Soda on the other hand they just give that shit away.

As a guy I cringe everytime that story gets brought up because I have spilled hot soup on my lap many times and was nowhere near how hot McDonald's coffee is. :eek:
Wait so a woman bought a cup of HOT coffee and took the lid off and drove in a car and she spilled the HOT coffee in her lap and the HOT coffee burned her………..
oh since you put it that way well sure, in fact I got brain freeze at Dairy Queen the other day I’m gonna sue those fuckers…..
 
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@7.62willdo and others

Some back story on the McDonald's Hot Coffee case...

At the time, the woman was sitting in the passenger seat of a parked car, and while removing the lid to the cup (with it braced between her knees) the cup tipped over and spilled. The woman, Stella Leibeck, was 79 years old at the time.

Corporate policy at McDonald's was to keep and serve coffee at 180-190 deg F. That is hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns in 3 seconds. (Go ahead, boil some water and pour it on your nuts. We'll wait...)

Other restaurants kept coffee at 150-160 deg F- which will cause 3rd degree burns in about 30 seconds. And, your coffee pot at home keeps coffee at 130-150 deg F. Those that are saying the coffee wasn't THAT hot are full of shit. And, if you still don't believe me, go ahead and brew up a fresh pot of coffee at home, pour yourself a cup, and dip your balls in it like a teabag. Report back here how long it takes to burn them.

Beyond that, McDonald's had received over 700 complaints that the coffee was dangerously hot, without changing policy.

Her recover took 2 years and required skin grafts. She also spent 6 months attempting to get them to settle for covering part of her medical expenses- which they refused, offering her $800- before deciding to sue.

The facts of the case are that McD corporate knew the the product was dangerously hot and actively ignored that danger. Like it or not, that fits the legal definition of gross negligence. The lawsuit was appealed and ultimately settled for less than $600,000. Initial awards (after assessing fault- and she was found to be 20% at fault for spilling the drink) were $640,000 (combined compensatory and punitive damages).

(The facts of the case are not hard to research, and I found the above in about 5 s with a google search)

The case in the OP is very different, but the McD case was brought up and it seems that many have strong opinions about it built on nothing more than their imagination.
 
@7.62willdo and others

Some back story on the McDonald's Hot Coffee case...

At the time, the woman was sitting in the passenger seat of a parked car, and while removing the lid to the cup (with it braced between her knees) the cup tipped over and spilled. The woman, Stella Leibeck, was 79 years old at the time.

Corporate policy at McDonald's was to keep and serve coffee at 180-190 deg F. That is hot enough to cause 3rd degree burns in 3 seconds. (Go ahead, boil some water and pour it on your nuts. We'll wait...)

Other restaurants kept coffee at 150-160 deg F- which will cause 3rd degree burns in about 30 seconds. And, your coffee pot at home keeps coffee at 130-150 deg F. Those that are saying the coffee wasn't THAT hot are full of shit. And, if you still don't believe me, go ahead and brew up a fresh pot of coffee at home, pour yourself a cup, and dip your balls in it like a teabag. Report back here how long it takes to burn them.

Beyond that, McDonald's had received over 700 complaints that the coffee was dangerously hot, without changing policy.

Her recover took 2 years and required skin grafts. She also spent 6 months attempting to get them to settle for covering part of her medical expenses- which they refused, offering her $800- before deciding to sue.

The facts of the case are that McD corporate knew the the product was dangerously hot and actively ignored that danger. Like it or not, that fits the legal definition of gross negligence. The lawsuit was appealed and ultimately settled for less than $600,000. Initial awards (after assessing fault- and she was found to be 20% at fault for spilling the drink) were $640,000 (combined compensatory and punitive damages).

(The facts of the case are not hard to research, and I found the above in about 5 s with a google search)

The case in the OP is very different, but the McD case was brought up and it seems that many have strong opinions about it built on nothing more than their imagination.
There was a documentary on netflix about this case too. They highlighted how the media narrative was false, and excluded the facts of the case, pretty informative piece. Used the false narrative to gain momentum to make it harder for people to sue corporations for neglegence.

Branden
 
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1. why are you trying to hold hot coffee with your balls?....regardless of the temperature?....

2. dont be a fucking idiot and the whole thing couldve been avoided

3. i tried to hold a hot clothes iron with my dick and it got burned...im gonna sue the iron mfg!!!


4. ok, and?....how many complaints do you think they get a year over stupid shit?....do they have to respond to every karen who hurts themselves by being fucking retarded

5. i bet they get hundreds of complaints a year about someone getting sick after drinking water from their toilets


6. again, all of which were her own damn fault for trying to hold coffee with her cooch.


7. "dangerously hot".....yeah, its fucking coffee....its all "dangerously hot".....

8. what if someone pours 150 degree coffee on their nuts and leaves it for 30 seconds.....is that also Mcdonalds fault?.....

9. how long is an acceptable level of time to pour hot coffee on my nuts before it becomes my fault and not Mcdonalds?



10. or does McDonalds have to start serving room temperature pre-chewed food so the autistics in our society dont harm themselves?




11. for a group of people who happily cheer for Darwin award candidates....yall are quick to come to the defense of a lady who apparently hasnt learned how to handle hot liquids in her 79 years on earth.....most normal people learn that before the age of 10.
Point 1 and 2- It is hard to remember, but in 1992, it was rare to have a cup holder in a car. In fact, this very case ushered in the era of common cup holders in US vehicles. I remember my dad setting his coffee mug on the dash of our Oldsmobile and thinking, "why doesn't this care have a place to put a coffee mug?"

Point 3- If the iron was designed by the manufacturer to be substantially hotter than industry norms, AND they knew that the design posed an increased risk, AND they actively ignored that risk, you might have a case.

Point 4- They probably get a bunch of complaints about a bunch of stuff. But, they actively ignored complaints about a product that posed an unacceptable risk. (An unacceptable risk, at least in the judgement of the jury and the judge) That is negligence.

Point 6- Goes back to point 1 and 2. And, she was apparently holding it with her knees, and the cup spilled backwards toward her.

Point 7- 150 deg coffee was the industry standard. Again, the coffee that McD was serving was substantially above that. They created the increased risk by intentionally serving coffee that was hotter than the norm.

Point 7 (Dangerously hot)- Yes, you can be burned by coffee that is 150 deg. However, it takes about 30 sec of continuous exposure to get 3rd degree burns from this temp. You have time to eliminate the problem before the worst of the effects. But, at 180-190, you only have about 3 seconds (not enough time to really react effectively) before essentially melting your skin.

Point 8- Cases of negligence assign fault, and both parties can be assigned partial fault. Leibeck was assigned 20% fault, because she did spill the cup. But, McD was assigned 80% fault because of their refusal to serve coffee within the norms of the industry, and they willfully ignored previous complaints that the coffee was an increased burn risk. In your example, you would retain 100% fault.

Point 9- This isn't about time. It is about negligence. Let's look at the legal definition... [failure to use reasonable care, resulting in damage or injury to another]. By ignoring the complaints, and serving the coffee at a temp well above industry standards, they failed to use reasonable care. Leibeck also failed to use reasonable care (by spilling the cup), but the jury found her fault to be smaller, and that McD had created the larger share of the problem by serving overly hot coffee.

Point 10- The smoothie joints already have the market cornered on pre-masticated sustenance.

Point 11- I remember my grandmother's hands being so twisted from arthritis that she could barely hold a cup of coffee. I'm giving Leibeck (79 at the time- well beyond Darwin Award age) the benefit of the doubt that the reason she was holding the coffee between her knees was because she needed both hands to remove the lid to add the cream and sugar and whatever to her coffee.

My first vehicle was a stick shift GMC Sierra and I remember holding many beverages with my legs, because it did not have a cup holder. I also learned to shift with my left hand, as my right was occupied with a drink or draped around the shoulder of a pretty girl. But, the most I risked was wet pants and some shrinkage (Seinfeld reference), because I don't drink coffee.

I'm not a lawyer and I don't drink coffee- but I have stayed at a Holiday Inn.
 
no it wasnt...some dumb cunt was trying to hold an open cup of coffee in her lap while in a moving car....all the injuries sustained were her own damn fault.

dont blame other people for your own stupidity....life cant be moron proof.

if you are that stupid, stay in a fucking padded room.

"BuT ThE CoFfEE WaS ToO HoT!!!!"......yeah no shit dumb fuck, its coffee....

because you are a fucking retard, the rest of us get you enjoy a nice luke warm cup of 90* coffee so the autistics dont hurt themselves.
She got third degree burns, was hospitalized for 8 days, had to get skin grafts, and two years of treatment. I'd say that's fairly significant. It's easy to dismiss something like this as "an idiot spilled their coffee," but that seems an unfair assessment. I get that it's the poster child for frivolous lawsuits, but that sounds fairly serious. Sometimes you gotta put your assumptions aside and look past the surface on these things.
 
I remember the little cup-holder things you would attach to the window - possibly slot in alongside the glass?

I think my first vehicle with cup-holders might have been a '98 Dodge Caravan (which we bought when my daughter was about to be born).
 
why would you stand directly in front of a vehicle in-between another fixed object?

Who cares if the guy didn’t have a license he was not on a public road.
But he is a dumbass who killed somebody, albeit another da.
 
I hope the car owner sues the hell out of that greedy family and their scumbag lawyer for intentionally causing him extreme emotional distress and taking his time and making him have to go through all that when he clearly had NO fault at all regarding the matter.

Then go to the state legislature and make sure the law is changed so vile greedy scumbags can't try to pull this B.S. again.
 
This is a legal maneuver for the dead guy’s family to be able to sue the dealership. Workers Comp should be the sole remedy so the family can’t sue the dealership. ( specifics vary by state).

The dealership’s insurance will pay for legal fees and settlements because the owner of the vehicle has no negligence in this case.

I see these claims all the time in the construction/energy space. I am in the insurance business and definitely not a lawyer.

The hot coffee suit is way worse than this one.

The McDonalds suit is studied in law school a fair amount....and most people that study it go "oh...that makes sense".

McDonalds had more than one lawsuit about their "instant 3rd degree burn" coffee. They left it at boiling temperature because it was profitable to make it impossible for a customer to get a refill if they ate breakfast in the restaurant. Even past the law suit payouts to date.

The plaintiff in the case requested her medical expenses of about $20k be covered, and admitted fault for spilling the coffee. McDonalds countered with $800. The jury then said "wow...McDonalds is run entirely by dickheads....here is $2.8m".

Put another way....it would be like making a product that blew your hand off when it failed within the warranty period specifically to give you something else to think about other than seeking a repair.

McDonalds had a profit motive that caused their coffee to ONLY be safe under certain controlled circumstances that would not have been necessary or desirable absent the profit motive. This unsafe condition was outside the reasonable expectations for a cup of coffee's ability to cause harm, thus reducing the care with which a consumer might handle the live grenade they handed you at the drive through.

If the coffee had had a deaths head symbol (the lady almost died, no shit it was that hot) with flames coming out of its eye sockets and "Instant Death if Spilled" on the cup it would have been fine.
 
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coffee gets brewed around 180 degrees....the woman got a cup of coffee consistent with what comes out of a coffee maker.....McDonalds didnt artificially heat the coffee to abnormal levels.
This is false, and the crux of the negligence claim. Except for McD at the time, restaurant coffee was brewed, held, and served at 140-150 deg F. And, home coffee pots brew and hold coffee at roughly 130-140 deg F. The plaintiff was able to convince the jury that serving coffee 30-40 deg above industry norms met the definition of failure to exercise reasonable care that results in loss to or injury of another.

Edited because I don't drink dirty bean water...
 
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BS quality coffee should and is brewed at 200 to 205 degrees. All bunn machines do this.
Cheap drip makers brew at 160 to 180 typically but that is there flaw not a feature.
I would not buy coffee brewed at 180.
 
Black tea on the other hand needs boiling water to brew it properly, but then usually you let it sit and cool as it steeps before trying to drink it.
 
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That is the brewing temperature. In the industry there is "brewing temperature" and "service temperature". ST is the temp you handed the cup to a customer at.

McDonalds was found to serve coffee at a temperature that reduced the 3rd degree (you are fucking cooked medium-well right fn'g now) burn time to about 3 seconds. Other fast food restaurants served coffee at temperatures that gave you about 20 seconds to remediate what you had done by pulling clothes away from your body etc.

They were 30 degrees hotter than the other restaurants and that meant something at the end of the day.
 
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why are you trying to hold hot coffee with your balls?....regardless of the temperature?....

dont be a fucking idiot and the whole thing couldve been avoided

i tried to hold a hot clothes iron with my dick and it got burned...im gonna sue the iron mfg!!!


ok, and?....how many complaints do you think they get a year over stupid shit?....do they have to respond to every karen who hurts themselves by being fucking retarded

i bet they get hundreds of complaints a year about someone getting sick after drinking water from their toilets


again, all of which were her own damn fault for trying to hold coffee with her cooch.


"dangerously hot".....yeah, its fucking coffee....its all "dangerously hot".....

what if someone pours 150 degree coffee on their nuts and leaves it for 30 seconds.....is that also Mcdonalds fault?.....

how long is an acceptable level of time to pour hot coffee on my nuts before it becomes my fault and not Mcdonalds?



or does McDonalds have to start serving room temperature pre-chewed food so the autistics in our society dont harm themselves?




for a group of people who happily cheer for Darwin award candidates....yall are quick to come to the defense of a lady who apparently hasnt learned how to handle hot liquids in her 79 years on earth.....most normal people learn that before the age of 10.
So no reasonable expectations on anything? So, its ok if the tap of your knuckle or fingernail ignites a primer? Its a "fucking bullet", right?

I think its reasonable to expect that if you spill hot liquid its gonna burn. Red legs, maybe enough to blister. I think you expect that if a person is walking with coffee and your kid bumps their arm, your kid gets burned, but needing skin grafs as a result, cmon......

Maybe Google the images of her legs....its out there.
 
So no reasonable expectations on anything? So, its ok if the tap of your knuckle or fingernail ignites a primer? Its a "fucking bullet", right?

I think its reasonable to expect that if you spill hot liquid its gonna burn. Red legs, maybe enough to blister. I think you expect that if a person is walking with coffee and your kid bumps their arm, your kid gets burned, but needing skin grafs as a result, cmon......

Maybe Google the images of her legs....its out there.
I guess we need to ban coffee.. for the old people! I mean if it prevents one old person burning themselves its worth it!!
 
drain cleaner is intended to be poured down a drain...would you support a person suing Dran-o because they spilled it all over themselves and got chemical burns?.....

If drano had engineered their product to cause instant death on skin contact...instead of just a burn..because it cut down on lawsuit payouts...

Then yes - it would be time to discuss their product safety with them.

McDonalds knew their product was more dangerous than it had to be because profit.
 
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im sorry, did McDonalds coffee 360 no scope insta-kill anyone?

were talking about burns.....lets compare them to burns.....


lol, now were bashing people for wanting to make a profit?.....christ, did yall get your talking points from twitter?

you going to bring up the fact that McDonalds is run by "CIS White Men!" next?

also, not that it matters, but is there any proof of this claim?......because i really doubt the $1 cup of coffee refill is really cutting into McDonalds profit margin.
1. Yes. Burns kill people. The hotter something is the more the burn from it injures someone. 3rd degree burns which the McDonalds coffee caused in 3 seconds are especially likely to kill people.

2. Yes. I’ll bash people that decide a little more profit is enough motivation to change the nature of a product thats already highly profitable until it easily causes severe injury.

3. Yes. It was proven in court McDonalds burnt the fuck out of people because it made them millions in additional profit each year based on non-refill customers.

 
There are some that get it, and no explanation is needed.
There are some that don't get it, and no explanation is possible.

Which one are you?
 
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holding an open cup of hot liquid in your lap isnt the equivalent of a "light tap"....thats the equivalent of intentionally hitting primers with a hammer and going "oh why did this happen to me!!!"


so we need common sense coffee regulations..."for the children"...?

stop bringing up straw man arguments...your fictional scenario didnt happen.


ive seen them....like i said before, the severity of the injury doesnt suddenly shift blame....

"oh she had 3rd degree burns!"
"oh she was old!"
"oh look how bad she was hurt"

you are trying to shift the frame of the argument by trying to appeal to a persons sympathies.



the facts are:
1) pouring coffee on your lap is not how coffee is intended to be used or consumed.
2) the cup and the lid did not fail, they operated as intended.
3) a person misused the intended product and directly created the environment that caused their injuries.



drain cleaner is intended to be poured down a drain...would you support a person suing Dran-o because they spilled it all over themselves and got chemical burns?.....

or is a person expected to handle certain products a certain way to not harm themselves?

it would be one thing if they made certain claims about being "skin safe" or "will not harm"....but that isnt what happened here.


no one thinks its alright to spill hot liquids on themselves of any "hot" temperature......so the consumer didnt have a "false sense of security" which Mcdonalds violated.
So no temperature is too hot?
 
Life sucks . Inside my truck smells like a fucking coffee pot, and my Keurag wont brew past 190 deg. ,
.
 
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The product is made to be handled and even have the lid removed. I don’t understand why accountability starts and stops with the customer, they knew what they were doing. I remember my grandfather cursing the temp of McDonald’s coffee, and he could drink stuff that softened the stirrer. Though to be fair, he cursed nearly everything at one point or another. McDonald’s clearly regards Americans as for-profit dumpsters, and seems like that attitude was about 40% of their 80% fault. Like I tell my kids, play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
 
1652188631084.png

Excuse me, but I'm going to need to see where the coffee did some damage.

But seriously, that case changed a lot of things. That judges decisions created the ability for people to not be held responsible for their own actions. And now its always somebody else's fault not mine....Whaaaaaaa.....
 
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Just pass the buck. They cannot legally sue the business or the business owner because of the boss negligence thing. So they'll sue the car owner. Then the car owner will sue the dealership. The attorneys just keep making money.
Yup.

Scumbag politicians and scumbag lawyers

All parasites that need the same remedy


If I pay someone to work on my house and they don’t pay the guy doing the work (the sub) they can put a lein on the house then I have to sue the person I paid to do the work.

All about keeping the theft scheme going.