- Thread starter Vamike9
- Start date
On February 26th and 27th, the Virginia Senate voted to pass a number of the anti-gun bills that crossed over from the House.
House Bill 2 passed by a vote of 23-17. It criminalizes private transfers of firearms without first paying fees, with limited exceptions. Most transfers between friends, neighbors, or fellow hunters are not exempted. These proposals would have no impact on crime and are completely unenforceable.
House Bill 674 passed by a vote of 20-20 after Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax broke the tie. It allows the seizure of an individual’s firearms on baseless accusations without a hearing or other opportunity for the person to be heard in court. It permits the government to seize firearms based on weak and nebulous standards of evidence.
A person subject to a suspension of a Constitutional right should be entitled to high evidentiary standards, an opportunity to be heard, and the right to face his or her accusers. Civil liberties advocates from across the political spectrum have expressed concerns on these “red flag” bills and how the procedure might lead to abuses of the process because of insufficient due process protections in the bill.
House Bill 421 passed by a vote of 22-18. It allows local governments to enact their own gun control ordinances, potentially resulting in a patchwork of laws and the Second Amendment not being protected across the state.
House Bill 812 passed by a vote of 21-19. It arbitrarily rations an individual’s right to lawfully purchase a handgun to once within 30 days.
House Bill 9 passed by a vote of 20-20 after Lt. Gov. Fairfax broke the tie. It victimizes gun owners who suffer loss or theft of their property with a fine if they don’t report a lost or stolen firearm within 24 hours of discovering them missing.
House Bill 1083 passed by a vote of 22-18. It severely restricts parental decisions about firearms in the home while attaching excessive penalties for violations.
House Bill 1080 passed by a vote of 21-19. It limits the ability of school boards and school administrators to make their own
House Bill 2 passed by a vote of 23-17. It criminalizes private transfers of firearms without first paying fees, with limited exceptions. Most transfers between friends, neighbors, or fellow hunters are not exempted. These proposals would have no impact on crime and are completely unenforceable.
House Bill 674 passed by a vote of 20-20 after Lieutenant Governor Justin Fairfax broke the tie. It allows the seizure of an individual’s firearms on baseless accusations without a hearing or other opportunity for the person to be heard in court. It permits the government to seize firearms based on weak and nebulous standards of evidence.
A person subject to a suspension of a Constitutional right should be entitled to high evidentiary standards, an opportunity to be heard, and the right to face his or her accusers. Civil liberties advocates from across the political spectrum have expressed concerns on these “red flag” bills and how the procedure might lead to abuses of the process because of insufficient due process protections in the bill.
House Bill 421 passed by a vote of 22-18. It allows local governments to enact their own gun control ordinances, potentially resulting in a patchwork of laws and the Second Amendment not being protected across the state.
House Bill 812 passed by a vote of 21-19. It arbitrarily rations an individual’s right to lawfully purchase a handgun to once within 30 days.
House Bill 9 passed by a vote of 20-20 after Lt. Gov. Fairfax broke the tie. It victimizes gun owners who suffer loss or theft of their property with a fine if they don’t report a lost or stolen firearm within 24 hours of discovering them missing.
House Bill 1083 passed by a vote of 22-18. It severely restricts parental decisions about firearms in the home while attaching excessive penalties for violations.
House Bill 1080 passed by a vote of 21-19. It limits the ability of school boards and school administrators to make their own
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Now, while the iron is hot, I'm going to remind you folks that all the demonstrations in the world will NOT change the minds of assholes with an agenda.
You were fucked all along, but you figured you could change minds and influence people.
Wrong!
I told you to stay home, and not play their game. I told you not to walk into their playground. You told me to shut up, that I was not contributing.
And now, because I was right, I'm going to be the goat.
And because you were wrong; now the assholes have you to point at and claim that what you tried to do there is doomed everywhere else, too.
Thanks.
Right on!
Greg
You were fucked all along, but you figured you could change minds and influence people.
Wrong!
I told you to stay home, and not play their game. I told you not to walk into their playground. You told me to shut up, that I was not contributing.
And now, because I was right, I'm going to be the goat.
And because you were wrong; now the assholes have you to point at and claim that what you tried to do there is doomed everywhere else, too.
Thanks.
Right on!
Greg
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Except for the fact that the "Assault Weapon Ban" was not accepted and sent to the Governor's Desk to sign into law. Had we not shown up, called, emailed, and rallied, we'd have an "Assault Weapons Ban" right now, going into law on July 1.
If you don't think that we affected HB961 and the other watered down bills then you are sorely mistaken my friend.
Dems wanted an AWB, stronger Red Flag Laws and many others that they didn't get.
Yes, we are against the wall but we will not give up.
We Did make a huge difference and will continue to make that difference.
Yep, and that all makes you the winner.
Not.
Equivocate all you want, you're still f*cked, regardless of your failed campaigns.
I... told... you... so...!
I warned you, but you would not listen.
Done with this, can't talk to people who refuse to listen.
So just put me on ignore and save yourselves having to listen bad old me.
Congratulate yourselves until the cows come home.
Wake up, buddy. We're in a war. Playing nice and all has gotten you precisely where you are.
When the other shoe drops, I honestly hope you're up for that task, too.
Greg
Not.
Equivocate all you want, you're still f*cked, regardless of your failed campaigns.
I... told... you... so...!
I warned you, but you would not listen.
Done with this, can't talk to people who refuse to listen.
So just put me on ignore and save yourselves having to listen bad old me.
Congratulate yourselves until the cows come home.
Wake up, buddy. We're in a war. Playing nice and all has gotten you precisely where you are.
When the other shoe drops, I honestly hope you're up for that task, too.
Greg
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I see comments like that all the time yet I never read about anyone in the entire United States doing the things you say we should be doing. Lots of talk, zero action, even from those who all say if they were our shoes, they'd already acted.
Did we win? No. We lost. We lost a lot. Could we have lost a hell of a lot more if we didn't try? Absolutely.
I'm glad you aren't my surgeon. You'd walk in and say "He's bleeding, what's the point, he's going to die, leave him alone".
Did we win? No. We lost. We lost a lot. Could we have lost a hell of a lot more if we didn't try? Absolutely.
I'm glad you aren't my surgeon. You'd walk in and say "He's bleeding, what's the point, he's going to die, leave him alone".
Look, don't get me wrong, I think you folks are doing the best you can in a fixed fight. I respect you and applaud you; but you're going to lose this because your eyes are on the wrong ball. You're wasting resources on a losing strategy.
I'm not your surgeon, and I'm glad about that because I'm not qualified to do surgery. There are better folks who can do that stuff and I stay out of their way.
...Or would you rather I leap in anyway? I know you don't want that and you know that wisecrack came straight outta your ass.
I disagree with your game plan, have explained it to you, and I'm telling it to you straight. I'm not wearing any gloves anymore.
When I first told you my mind, I was naysayed and ignored. I'm no longer shutting up and watching the trainwreck.
Now you're out of pocket, and I doubt you still have as much of the support as you once had.
That's on you, not on me. You shot your wad doing a dubious thing. When you go back to that well, you're probably going to come up shorter.
The democratic process and the courts don't work when they're crooked, and you know they are.
But you keep playing their game. Einstein had a saying about that.
But actually folks are wrong about that. You are, too.
I'm not your surgeon, and I'm glad about that because I'm not qualified to do surgery. There are better folks who can do that stuff and I stay out of their way.
...Or would you rather I leap in anyway? I know you don't want that and you know that wisecrack came straight outta your ass.
I disagree with your game plan, have explained it to you, and I'm telling it to you straight. I'm not wearing any gloves anymore.
When I first told you my mind, I was naysayed and ignored. I'm no longer shutting up and watching the trainwreck.
Now you're out of pocket, and I doubt you still have as much of the support as you once had.
That's on you, not on me. You shot your wad doing a dubious thing. When you go back to that well, you're probably going to come up shorter.
The democratic process and the courts don't work when they're crooked, and you know they are.
But you keep playing their game. Einstein had a saying about that.
But actually folks are wrong about that. You are, too.
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Are you seriously here to gloat about us having to weather this storm?
We are not doing this to be the ones who are right, we do this to protect our rights.
We know the climate in which we are in.
I have called much of this before it happened but that doesn't matter to me, I am on this thread to update.
As I have said if you want to debate people shift your focus to the other side.
Yes, yes I am. The truth is simple, even if you're unwilling to face it. I'm gloating because you're being adamant about doubling down in a losing fight.
I don't see you talking about any lawsuits. We tried that in NY. The folks of NY are far more thoroughly f*cked than you are now; so we can see how eager the courts are to aid the fight.
You are not protecting your rights, you are wasting your resources, people and money, by playing their game by their rules. You are, as some socialists once said, being the convenient fool. Lead on, straight to the death camps.
When the other shoe drops, a lot of folks who have put their trust in you are are going to be looking at you real funny; and all those resources you wasted will be gone, good money after bad.
Telling me and others to shift focus is just another way of doing what you've been doing.
It's the sound of you copping out. If all you're here to do is report, it's clear you've already done that.
You defend 2A, but you're scared sh*tless of actually using it the way it was intended.
No gloves, remember?
Your fight in Virginia is lost, is unwinnable. Just like it was in NY. Lost from the beginning, as are all efforts to lock horns with the unscrupulous. The losses accumulate, the genuine gains elude.
I left NY because the lesson of the Titanic was clear, only the lifeboats still worked, and death was a really bad option. I picked my corner, and I'm waiting for the other shoe. I'm conserving resources, and the worse is coming.
The fight is fixed. Wake up. Prepare for their next gambit.
Pick your fights, instead of being good subservient game players. You're fighting a good fight, but it's the wrong one.
I tried, but I'm done with you and done with that now, too.
Best fortune Virginia, I wish you the very best. But I doubt you're the one who will prevail. Hope is not a strategy.
Greg
I don't see you talking about any lawsuits. We tried that in NY. The folks of NY are far more thoroughly f*cked than you are now; so we can see how eager the courts are to aid the fight.
You are not protecting your rights, you are wasting your resources, people and money, by playing their game by their rules. You are, as some socialists once said, being the convenient fool. Lead on, straight to the death camps.
When the other shoe drops, a lot of folks who have put their trust in you are are going to be looking at you real funny; and all those resources you wasted will be gone, good money after bad.
Telling me and others to shift focus is just another way of doing what you've been doing.
It's the sound of you copping out. If all you're here to do is report, it's clear you've already done that.
You defend 2A, but you're scared sh*tless of actually using it the way it was intended.
No gloves, remember?
Your fight in Virginia is lost, is unwinnable. Just like it was in NY. Lost from the beginning, as are all efforts to lock horns with the unscrupulous. The losses accumulate, the genuine gains elude.
I left NY because the lesson of the Titanic was clear, only the lifeboats still worked, and death was a really bad option. I picked my corner, and I'm waiting for the other shoe. I'm conserving resources, and the worse is coming.
The fight is fixed. Wake up. Prepare for their next gambit.
Pick your fights, instead of being good subservient game players. You're fighting a good fight, but it's the wrong one.
I tried, but I'm done with you and done with that now, too.
Best fortune Virginia, I wish you the very best. But I doubt you're the one who will prevail. Hope is not a strategy.
Greg
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Well, then we know where you stand.
We are anything but scared, we are on the frontlines actually making the difference.
Armchair warriors are a dime a dozen.
You just keep talking that line.
That is precisely where I stand.
I'll watch, and I'll remind you every time you lose another battle. Unless, or course, you choose the more courageous approach and simply 'ignore' me. Silence that dissent. Keep it far away.
You ducked the AWB. Fine, and for how long? Not long enough, I reckon. The differences you are making are in no small part only permanent in your own mind. We did that too, in NY. BTDT, and you don't want to hear it. A lot of the Jews couldn't believe Hitler really hated them that much, either.
You can call me anything you want. you're still leading the rest to market. I'm not doing that to you, name calling is the loser's tactic. Puff up your chest an call me an armchair warrior. It's beginning to suit you. When the time comes for you to eat those words, I'll just smile.
You are mistaken, and you can't even admit it to yourself. Bad things are coming your way, but you just want to tilt that windmill, over and over.
Stay frosty. I've got better things to waste my time on.
Greg
That is precisely where I stand.
I'll watch, and I'll remind you every time you lose another battle. Unless, or course, you choose the more courageous approach and simply 'ignore' me. Silence that dissent. Keep it far away.
You ducked the AWB. Fine, and for how long? Not long enough, I reckon. The differences you are making are in no small part only permanent in your own mind. We did that too, in NY. BTDT, and you don't want to hear it. A lot of the Jews couldn't believe Hitler really hated them that much, either.
You can call me anything you want. you're still leading the rest to market. I'm not doing that to you, name calling is the loser's tactic. Puff up your chest an call me an armchair warrior. It's beginning to suit you. When the time comes for you to eat those words, I'll just smile.
You are mistaken, and you can't even admit it to yourself. Bad things are coming your way, but you just want to tilt that windmill, over and over.
Stay frosty. I've got better things to waste my time on.
Greg
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What have you done?
If you are not going to be productive then either shut up or get out of the way because I am involved.
20,000+ Patriots are not talking the talk, we walked that walk.
If you want to criticize us for being analytical and planning, well that's your choice.
I will no longer debate you on a thread that I started to help educate and update folks on how to help.
I've put in the time and work so good day sir!
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And I guess that's your final word, shut up, anyone who disagrees is in the way. But you're not, you're being productive. So we see, with all those other, less important(?) bills becoming law.
I put in the time and work in NY, talked the talk, and walked the walk for years; but that's a big nothing as far as you're concerned. I told you where that course leads, and you think doing the same thing will end up different.
I'm not criticizing you for being analytical and planning. I'm pointing out to you that what you're doing ends badly. That's my choice, not something you dreamed up to make yourself look logical and wise.
OK, you be the better patriot.
We're watching; and you're not debating. Right...
Your words:
A few more days like this, and you'll have them right where you want them. Sure thing.
There will be more days like this, and I'll be right there with the salt shaker, rubbing it in. Take your medicine, Mike, you'll be deserving it, You know it. You claim the fight, you eat the losses. If you can.
Dissent has it's place, and you're not having any. I spoke my mind, and you picked the fight. When you duck the point, when you play the hero, you're losing. I don't need to be the hero. I don't need to win anything. I concede. Now it's all up to you.
You're the patriot, as you say.
And please don't call me your brother.
Greg
I put in the time and work in NY, talked the talk, and walked the walk for years; but that's a big nothing as far as you're concerned. I told you where that course leads, and you think doing the same thing will end up different.
I'm not criticizing you for being analytical and planning. I'm pointing out to you that what you're doing ends badly. That's my choice, not something you dreamed up to make yourself look logical and wise.
OK, you be the better patriot.
We're watching; and you're not debating. Right...
Your words:
A few more days like this, and you'll have them right where you want them. Sure thing.
There will be more days like this, and I'll be right there with the salt shaker, rubbing it in. Take your medicine, Mike, you'll be deserving it, You know it. You claim the fight, you eat the losses. If you can.
Dissent has it's place, and you're not having any. I spoke my mind, and you picked the fight. When you duck the point, when you play the hero, you're losing. I don't need to be the hero. I don't need to win anything. I concede. Now it's all up to you.
You're the patriot, as you say.
And please don't call me your brother.
Greg
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Look man, I'm not saying I am anything but someone who loves his country and state.
Many of us are active and are doing things to push back against tyranny.
If you study history, you'll find that many of those who had a part in our beautiful 2A weren't ready to go to war as the first option.
I know that if I were you I'd watch my words closely as you telegraph everything on here.
So this is my last words to you, let's keep this thread flowing the right way, and if you want to start one about kicking off a war, well then see how long your thread will last.
Unfortunately that's what ruined a previous thread I had on here because of idiots who spoke about violence.
I don't have time for this foolishness though.
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Me neither, and me too.
I feel the same way you do about idiots and violence. Is said so once, and got gutted for it. Maybe you remember that one.
But I never give up, and I'm still here.
I hope you get what you're fighting for. If you don't, there may be some who will pick up after; I hope so, anyway.
You make good points about telegraphs. I'm not stupid enough to take on Juggernauts.
I have damned little left to telegraph; sick old man with a viewpoint. Probably dead soon enough anyway. I'm harmless at best; I can't even run 50 steps.
For me, for now, it's just about me and a few decent folks who are friends.
I did the other part some years back in NY. FWIW, we lost; save Virginia.
FUAC.
Greg
I feel the same way you do about idiots and violence. Is said so once, and got gutted for it. Maybe you remember that one.
But I never give up, and I'm still here.
I hope you get what you're fighting for. If you don't, there may be some who will pick up after; I hope so, anyway.
You make good points about telegraphs. I'm not stupid enough to take on Juggernauts.
I have damned little left to telegraph; sick old man with a viewpoint. Probably dead soon enough anyway. I'm harmless at best; I can't even run 50 steps.
For me, for now, it's just about me and a few decent folks who are friends.
I did the other part some years back in NY. FWIW, we lost; save Virginia.
FUAC.
Greg
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Not a fan of the news station but here's what's happening all around us in Va.
wset.com
Second Amendment supporters attend militia muster call in Campbell County
CAMPBELL CO. , Va. (WSET) -- Campbell County joins the growing list of localities holding militia muster calls. At least 300 people showed up to the militia muster call in Campbell County to protect their Second Amendment rights on Saturday. The muster call was held on Leesville Road in...
wset.com 
No, not getting out and voting got us where we are.
Its easy to type negativity. What do you suggest? That we all arm up and storm Richmond.
Not a fan of the news station but here's what's happening all around us in Va.
Second Amendment supporters attend militia muster call in Campbell County
CAMPBELL CO. , Va. (WSET) -- Campbell County joins the growing list of localities holding militia muster calls. At least 300 people showed up to the militia muster call in Campbell County to protect their Second Amendment rights on Saturday. The muster call was held on Leesville Road in...
Grew up deep in Campbell County. Redneck to the dick. Proud of my homies.
People are just plain fed up with dictators and tyrants around here!
I'm still waiting to here Greg's plans on what we're supposed to be doing here. Lawsuits? You can't file them until the law is actually passed, ya know? Right now, there are zero bills signed into law. The lawyers are all ready to go, so as soon as the bills are signed into laws, then the lawsuits will be filed.
The thing some people don't seem to understand. Virginia is not New York. Virginia is not California. If you are in one of those states, you might think we're the same, but we're not.
They can do most anything they want down there at the Capital. When the red wave sweeps nationally through Virginia in November and we toss out a long term Senator and a newbie Congresswoman, it's going to be a shot across the bow to knock off this shit in the 2021 session. They can do what they want in the 2021 session again, but it will be at their own peril and the laws they put in place July 1, 2021 will be removed Jan.2022.
I've seen the posts about the Tree of Liberty needs to be watered with blood so many times and yet, the ground is still dry. How can that be, because clearly there are so many internet warriors waiting to swoop into action?
We'll be fine in Virginia. We've been dealt a shit hand by our own doings, and we'll undo all this shit soon. Just have to put up with a little irritants for a little longer. We've undone their stupid shit before, we'll undo it again when the time comes, and it will come.
The thing some people don't seem to understand. Virginia is not New York. Virginia is not California. If you are in one of those states, you might think we're the same, but we're not.
They can do most anything they want down there at the Capital. When the red wave sweeps nationally through Virginia in November and we toss out a long term Senator and a newbie Congresswoman, it's going to be a shot across the bow to knock off this shit in the 2021 session. They can do what they want in the 2021 session again, but it will be at their own peril and the laws they put in place July 1, 2021 will be removed Jan.2022.
I've seen the posts about the Tree of Liberty needs to be watered with blood so many times and yet, the ground is still dry. How can that be, because clearly there are so many internet warriors waiting to swoop into action?
We'll be fine in Virginia. We've been dealt a shit hand by our own doings, and we'll undo all this shit soon. Just have to put up with a little irritants for a little longer. We've undone their stupid shit before, we'll undo it again when the time comes, and it will come.
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We need to sign this guys as this will affect us greatly come election day.
oneclickpolitics.global.ssl.fastly.net
SUPPORT the SJ 18 redistricting resolution!
SUPPORT the SJ 18 redistricting resolution! It is important to all Virginians that redistricting is done fairly and impartially. SJ 18 provides that kind of mechanism. Please pass SJ 18 out of c...
oneclickpolitics.global.ssl.fastly.net My plan is to back off, shut up, and watch the train wreck.
I have made my suggestions and been shouted down.
Dissent is apparently something you folks simply can't abide.
That's a lesson for the rest of us.
You have the floor. Give 'em hell. Win back your state. I hope you succeed in every way that's important to you. I'd rather I be wrong and you be right.
Lots of eyes will be on you; so please, do them proud.
No, I don't, and I have already made that clear. By setting up sanctuaries, militias, and mobilizing; you are backing yourselves into a corner where you will have to respond with force.
You are daring them to cross a line, to come at you. They most assuredly will, because the only thing they understand is how to oppress; and they're getting better at it with your help. There are elements here that are similar in some ways to how McCarthy pushed the Commies, and how their response brought not only him down, but any others who might have followed.
You are the mice in their lab, with them seeking to find the right pressure points that push all of us into the gulag. By engaging them along their own chosen lines, you are helping them refine their tactics intended to stomp 2A flat, once and forever.
Their entire point is to demonstrate that you are willing to step over lines and do the things they can prosecute you for, and you're doing everything it takes to help them do so.
It takes two to fight. They're fighting and they're winning. The difference is that they have the law, however dubious, irresponsible, and yes, unconstitutional, on their side. They have laid their minefields and by your defiance you are marching straight at them in lockstep.
Take that step, and you will immediately be mired in a years long battle simply to attain even your release. Act in haste; repent at your own leisure.
By instead leaving them with no response, by leaving them twisting in the wind, unable to draw any useful conclusions about how well they're succeeding, you're being the pin that drops in a vacuum.
Their only followup is to escalate, and when they do, they will disgust the rest of America. You won't need to use violence, the rest of the nation will do it for you. It their own suicide that's going to end them.
When your opponent is screwing up, don't interrupt.
Or..., you can stay on your current course, and they can Gulag you; and worse; they can do it to your families and friends as well. It's called conspiracy.
You're right, this is not NY. Back in NY, we put ourselves on record with lawsuits that are still, years later, crawling their way to get beyond even the initial readings in SCOTUS.
You are playing their game, under their rules; biased and skewed beyond any realistic expectation of getting out of this without violence. In the endgame, for some of you, the outcome will be indistinguishable from just going ahead and slitting your own throats right this minute.
Moreover, the shot will be heard, once again, around the world. You will be bringing an uprising to all our doorsteps.
It that what you want? Because that's precisely the demon that you are summoning.
You probably can't accomplish anything of lasting value while the reins are in the hands of the tyrants. While they remain in office, there is no winning, they'll just legislate themselves around your successes.
Vote them out if you can. Prepare for what they'll do next if you can't.
Understand; they don't just want to disarm you.
I can't offer advice to folks who insist upon swimming with sharks.
Greg
I have made my suggestions and been shouted down.
Dissent is apparently something you folks simply can't abide.
That's a lesson for the rest of us.
You have the floor. Give 'em hell. Win back your state. I hope you succeed in every way that's important to you. I'd rather I be wrong and you be right.
Lots of eyes will be on you; so please, do them proud.
No, I don't, and I have already made that clear. By setting up sanctuaries, militias, and mobilizing; you are backing yourselves into a corner where you will have to respond with force.
You are daring them to cross a line, to come at you. They most assuredly will, because the only thing they understand is how to oppress; and they're getting better at it with your help. There are elements here that are similar in some ways to how McCarthy pushed the Commies, and how their response brought not only him down, but any others who might have followed.
You are the mice in their lab, with them seeking to find the right pressure points that push all of us into the gulag. By engaging them along their own chosen lines, you are helping them refine their tactics intended to stomp 2A flat, once and forever.
Their entire point is to demonstrate that you are willing to step over lines and do the things they can prosecute you for, and you're doing everything it takes to help them do so.
It takes two to fight. They're fighting and they're winning. The difference is that they have the law, however dubious, irresponsible, and yes, unconstitutional, on their side. They have laid their minefields and by your defiance you are marching straight at them in lockstep.
Take that step, and you will immediately be mired in a years long battle simply to attain even your release. Act in haste; repent at your own leisure.
By instead leaving them with no response, by leaving them twisting in the wind, unable to draw any useful conclusions about how well they're succeeding, you're being the pin that drops in a vacuum.
Their only followup is to escalate, and when they do, they will disgust the rest of America. You won't need to use violence, the rest of the nation will do it for you. It their own suicide that's going to end them.
When your opponent is screwing up, don't interrupt.
Or..., you can stay on your current course, and they can Gulag you; and worse; they can do it to your families and friends as well. It's called conspiracy.
You're right, this is not NY. Back in NY, we put ourselves on record with lawsuits that are still, years later, crawling their way to get beyond even the initial readings in SCOTUS.
You are playing their game, under their rules; biased and skewed beyond any realistic expectation of getting out of this without violence. In the endgame, for some of you, the outcome will be indistinguishable from just going ahead and slitting your own throats right this minute.
Moreover, the shot will be heard, once again, around the world. You will be bringing an uprising to all our doorsteps.
It that what you want? Because that's precisely the demon that you are summoning.
You probably can't accomplish anything of lasting value while the reins are in the hands of the tyrants. While they remain in office, there is no winning, they'll just legislate themselves around your successes.
Vote them out if you can. Prepare for what they'll do next if you can't.
Understand; they don't just want to disarm you.
I can't offer advice to folks who insist upon swimming with sharks.
Greg
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I must say, I have no idea what your plan is after reading that? Shut up, back off, and watch the trainwreck?
So we shouldn't have tried to stop them at all? We shouldn't have fought to have bills amended to protect some of our rights? We shouldn't have fought to stop a bill that banned most rifles and pistols that already exist in our homes?
Because if that's what you mean and that's your plan, then no wonder it didn't work worth a shit in NY.
So we shouldn't have tried to stop them at all? We shouldn't have fought to have bills amended to protect some of our rights? We shouldn't have fought to stop a bill that banned most rifles and pistols that already exist in our homes?
Because if that's what you mean and that's your plan, then no wonder it didn't work worth a shit in NY.
You got the first part right, you clearly have no idea what my plan is. Your username is becoming prophetic.
Damn straight I can shut up, back, off and watch the train wreck; especially when the prevailing advice is for me to shut up and and leave all this adult stuff to the professionals. Good advice; I'm taking it.
And then, putting words in my mouth is a recognizable tactic, and I'm not taking the bait. Jump through your own hoops; I'm not interested in playing games with you. You and others have tried painting me as advocating violence. I don't, and I've addressed that above; maybe you should try reading my posts again.
I am not red flag bait, and your suggesting such things is a blatant effort to make me so.
Since you, and just about everyone else in this topic who has chosen to engage me has done so aggressively, maybe even belligerently; my answer is that I am in no way obligated to explain anything to you; so that's not going to happen. If you want me to advise you, I'll just say that I've been advising you, and it's beginning to look like trying to do so any further would be a total waste; you're just so fascinated with your own work so far that none need suggest otherwise.
As said before, you're handling dissent just great for someone who's dissenting, yourself. So, what's next; calling me a traitor? Been tried before.
What happened in NY is just precisely what I'm trying to help you prevent, but all you want to do is argue. You mock me and the other folks in NY, who are looking back at you from right where you're headed. Nice to have your viewpoint.
Like I said; I can't offer advice to folks who insist on swimming with the sharks. All you've contributed here regarding my views is insults. You can only play the superior for so long, and then you have to prove it.
What you have left is for me to shut up, back off, and watch the train wreck; which I can do just fine without any further aggravation from you.
If anyone else has similar advice for me, I believe they should save it.
Greg
Damn straight I can shut up, back, off and watch the train wreck; especially when the prevailing advice is for me to shut up and and leave all this adult stuff to the professionals. Good advice; I'm taking it.
And then, putting words in my mouth is a recognizable tactic, and I'm not taking the bait. Jump through your own hoops; I'm not interested in playing games with you. You and others have tried painting me as advocating violence. I don't, and I've addressed that above; maybe you should try reading my posts again.
I am not red flag bait, and your suggesting such things is a blatant effort to make me so.
Since you, and just about everyone else in this topic who has chosen to engage me has done so aggressively, maybe even belligerently; my answer is that I am in no way obligated to explain anything to you; so that's not going to happen. If you want me to advise you, I'll just say that I've been advising you, and it's beginning to look like trying to do so any further would be a total waste; you're just so fascinated with your own work so far that none need suggest otherwise.
As said before, you're handling dissent just great for someone who's dissenting, yourself. So, what's next; calling me a traitor? Been tried before.
What happened in NY is just precisely what I'm trying to help you prevent, but all you want to do is argue. You mock me and the other folks in NY, who are looking back at you from right where you're headed. Nice to have your viewpoint.
Like I said; I can't offer advice to folks who insist on swimming with the sharks. All you've contributed here regarding my views is insults. You can only play the superior for so long, and then you have to prove it.
What you have left is for me to shut up, back off, and watch the train wreck; which I can do just fine without any further aggravation from you.
If anyone else has similar advice for me, I believe they should save it.
Greg
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I think you might be reading just about 100% of what I said incorrectly in how I meant it. I honestly have no damn clue what you are talking about or saying we were supposed to have been doing. That's why I asked. Wasn't putting words in your mouth, wasn't trying to make you into anything, I'm simply trying to understand what you suggested we were supposed to be doing. I haven't followed all your posts throughout this thread so I was genuinely asking what your suggested course of action was. I still don't know.
I'm not trying to red flag you, bait you, make you post stuff on the internet that gets you in trouble, I'm simply trying to understand what else we are/were supposed to do. That's all.
But thanks for reading all that into my post. You've apparently misunderstood my posts about as much as I've misunderstood yours. I haven't been combative to any other posts you've made, that I'm aware of, I'm just trying to figure it all out, nothing more, no hidden meaning, nothing.
In no way am I superior to anyone on this site, nor do I pretend to be. I simply asked what your advice for us was, that's all.
I'm not trying to red flag you, bait you, make you post stuff on the internet that gets you in trouble, I'm simply trying to understand what else we are/were supposed to do. That's all.
But thanks for reading all that into my post. You've apparently misunderstood my posts about as much as I've misunderstood yours. I haven't been combative to any other posts you've made, that I'm aware of, I'm just trying to figure it all out, nothing more, no hidden meaning, nothing.
In no way am I superior to anyone on this site, nor do I pretend to be. I simply asked what your advice for us was, that's all.
Greg, you know I respect you. We've had some great off thread conversations and I hope to visit you in Arizona when I get out that way again. Id love to learn more about LR shooting from you.
But I have expressed the same question: If we are doing it wrong, what is your advice. Keep it simple.
Thanks,
Mag
Well, that changes the discussion, and I'm taking you at your word. I am sorry I got it wrong. Fresh start.
OK, here goes...
My advice is that it's time to take a step back and review the history of this dispute in Virginia. Judging from the flurry of bills, it's not achieving truly meaningful results. An AWB postponed is not an AWB defeated. It will come back, they will cram it down your throats sidewise while they bide their time. The rest was passed simply because by baiting you folks with an unworkable AWB, they were able to convince the legislature that something less onerous was actually acceptable because it seemed that they were giving something back. Even you guys are buying that.
They gave nothing back; it was always unworkable, it was always going to fail.
In NY, they got it done on the first try, late at night on a weekend, nobody allowed to watch or listen. Nobody saw it coming, and nobody was prepared to deal with it effectively. There was no way to deal with it effectively, because they were, and remain, unprincipled thugs in pin stripe suits. They're doing what all thugs do when they get the green light.
Where your situation is concerned, they played you, you took the bait, and with regard to the bills that did pass, it worked. You're new to this, and they're not. They're organized on the national level, and at the state level, you're new and it shows.
I look at those pictures of SWAT garbed civilians and do a facepalm. That stuff plays to their strengths, and to your weaknesses. Your tent is not big enough to cater to that.
You have to stop letting them define the fight. They toss out the bait and you good folks do what seems effective. It's not. In order for what you've created to work, somebody has to be violent. Them, you, it really doesn't matter who; force will be applied, and you will be presented with the choice between shooting or standing down. That choice is no choice. Other options are not inherent to the strategies you're putting in place.
My suggestion is that when they throw the bait, ignore it; and force them to throw more. When they do, they expose another portion of their thuggery. That's where things stand right now in NY. In NY, the laws are standing, and damned near nobody is obeying them. That's NOT a viable tactic. I left NY because, just like on the Titanic, only the lifeboats still worked there in NY. It's the same in CA, and it will be the same in VA unless you change your direction. I left NY because they will come for the guns, there will be blood, and I'm not having any part of that sh*t. I think that eventually, you can expect the same.
You have to stop letting them provoke you, letting them force you to escalate.
You really are the the victims here. They understand that their victim gambit works in two directions, both ways; so long as the non-victims insist they are, and the actual victims insist they're not. They're not and you are. it's the Big Lie, all over again, and they've got the entire FSA singing their tune, loudly.
As long as you are the victims, and you are; whatever they throw at you, it's all equally unjust, the outcome is the same, and they are going to just keep piling it on. They recognize that any dog will show its teeth if you keep on poking it with the stick. If you're going to use those teeth, first take away the stick.
Let them pile it on. If you blink first and throw a tantrum, like you're doing with the sanctuaries and the militias, they achieve their goals. They will have managed to paint you as wackos, and that shade of paint isn't washing off any time soon.
Be the more evolved. Turn the cheek. Point it out and let the rest of America see it for what it is; and you for what you are, the unjustly oppressed. At that point, all they can achieve by doubling down is to paint themselves more brightly as the actual ogres in town.
Understand that how you play this out affects all the rest of us. Please get this right.
Greg
OK, here goes...
My advice is that it's time to take a step back and review the history of this dispute in Virginia. Judging from the flurry of bills, it's not achieving truly meaningful results. An AWB postponed is not an AWB defeated. It will come back, they will cram it down your throats sidewise while they bide their time. The rest was passed simply because by baiting you folks with an unworkable AWB, they were able to convince the legislature that something less onerous was actually acceptable because it seemed that they were giving something back. Even you guys are buying that.
They gave nothing back; it was always unworkable, it was always going to fail.
In NY, they got it done on the first try, late at night on a weekend, nobody allowed to watch or listen. Nobody saw it coming, and nobody was prepared to deal with it effectively. There was no way to deal with it effectively, because they were, and remain, unprincipled thugs in pin stripe suits. They're doing what all thugs do when they get the green light.
Where your situation is concerned, they played you, you took the bait, and with regard to the bills that did pass, it worked. You're new to this, and they're not. They're organized on the national level, and at the state level, you're new and it shows.
I look at those pictures of SWAT garbed civilians and do a facepalm. That stuff plays to their strengths, and to your weaknesses. Your tent is not big enough to cater to that.
You have to stop letting them define the fight. They toss out the bait and you good folks do what seems effective. It's not. In order for what you've created to work, somebody has to be violent. Them, you, it really doesn't matter who; force will be applied, and you will be presented with the choice between shooting or standing down. That choice is no choice. Other options are not inherent to the strategies you're putting in place.
My suggestion is that when they throw the bait, ignore it; and force them to throw more. When they do, they expose another portion of their thuggery. That's where things stand right now in NY. In NY, the laws are standing, and damned near nobody is obeying them. That's NOT a viable tactic. I left NY because, just like on the Titanic, only the lifeboats still worked there in NY. It's the same in CA, and it will be the same in VA unless you change your direction. I left NY because they will come for the guns, there will be blood, and I'm not having any part of that sh*t. I think that eventually, you can expect the same.
You have to stop letting them provoke you, letting them force you to escalate.
You really are the the victims here. They understand that their victim gambit works in two directions, both ways; so long as the non-victims insist they are, and the actual victims insist they're not. They're not and you are. it's the Big Lie, all over again, and they've got the entire FSA singing their tune, loudly.
As long as you are the victims, and you are; whatever they throw at you, it's all equally unjust, the outcome is the same, and they are going to just keep piling it on. They recognize that any dog will show its teeth if you keep on poking it with the stick. If you're going to use those teeth, first take away the stick.
Let them pile it on. If you blink first and throw a tantrum, like you're doing with the sanctuaries and the militias, they achieve their goals. They will have managed to paint you as wackos, and that shade of paint isn't washing off any time soon.
Be the more evolved. Turn the cheek. Point it out and let the rest of America see it for what it is; and you for what you are, the unjustly oppressed. At that point, all they can achieve by doubling down is to paint themselves more brightly as the actual ogres in town.
Understand that how you play this out affects all the rest of us. Please get this right.
Greg
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Interesting observations, and I think, at least partially correct.
I cant speak as to how the national level sees us but I think the gathering in Richmond did do a lot of good. It showed that unlike the antifa whacks who have their tantrums, burn pillage and loot, we could peaceably assemble with 0 instance of violence and only 1 arrest, and actually clean up after ourselves. At least locally that got a lot of peoples attention. Again, I cant speak for the national perception especially as I dont watch television. I do agree that showing up dressed like swat or special forces sets a poor image. We are citizens, first.
"Be the more evolved. Turn the cheek. Point it out and let the rest of America see it for what it is; and you for what you are, the unjustly oppressed. At that point, all they can achieve by doubling down is to paint themselves more brightly as the actual ogres in town"
I couldnt get the above to highlight so I copied it. Unfortunately, with the changing population demographic, rural rapidly changing to urban, with less NEED for firearms, and the continuing spate of mass shooting, thats unlikely to happen. I see it as a largely losing battle and we're just buying time. If you dont have a NEED for something and are taught to view it as evil its natural to want it eliminated even if it is sacrificing essential liberty (especially that of others) for a little security.
VA guys, you have my sympathy and concerns.
I will continue to contribute to the VCDL in hopes that will help. If nothing else it should at least help with the legal constitutional battles to come.
I will not, unlike others now that the wolf is at the door, try to teach wolf breeding mitigation tips.
Nor would I ever gloat over the misfortune of others.
Keep the faith guys!
I will continue to contribute to the VCDL in hopes that will help. If nothing else it should at least help with the legal constitutional battles to come.
I will not, unlike others now that the wolf is at the door, try to teach wolf breeding mitigation tips.
Nor would I ever gloat over the misfortune of others.
Keep the faith guys!
I think that you folks got lucky in Richmond, very lucky. It could have gone a lot of other ways, and you were not in control of any of them. I don't think you could get away with it again, Antifa for one...
As for 1J, put him on ignore. I did; with flap jaw morons, the nuclear option is the only way to be sure.
If you see this as a losing battle, and are willing to accept that it's just a tradeoff of time for..., what? Then maybe you're not who you think you are. Personally I think you are, but if you think you're losing, you're losing. You just need to figure out that you're the one who decides who's losing, and decide you're not. You don't lose until you give up.
The not giving up part is what I'm talking about when I tell you that you need to prepare for the next phase of this fight. It's not about taking back the 2A, that can't be taken back because no matter what they do, it's still a God given right., and it can never be take away in the first place.
It's about defeating the rot at this country's very core.
If anyone thinks that one person can make that plan, or win that fight, alone; they're not us, they're them. Don't demand that I be that person, because I'll be dead long before that one comes to fruition.
Sanctuaries are their weapon and it's a fraud. Adopting it does not change any of that.
Militias are going to be there regardless. I hope they do the right thing, but I'm not counting on them to win this either.
This country became a country on the backs of the Minutemen; solitary individuals with the means, the intention, and the honest before God commitment. Being the Grey man, The Minuteman, is not doing nothing; it's doing everything you can do legitimately and without threatening the decent folks, values, and institutions that form this country. Be ready in a minute, threaten no one, be the example that others can follow.
None of this is new, or offensive to liberty and freedom.
...And yes, someone did say "Arizona".
When the big one comes to town for the big fight, it's coming to Arizona.
I'm already there and waiting. Pick a minute; any minute. If I'm alive, I'm ready.
Greg
As for 1J, put him on ignore. I did; with flap jaw morons, the nuclear option is the only way to be sure.
If you see this as a losing battle, and are willing to accept that it's just a tradeoff of time for..., what? Then maybe you're not who you think you are. Personally I think you are, but if you think you're losing, you're losing. You just need to figure out that you're the one who decides who's losing, and decide you're not. You don't lose until you give up.
The not giving up part is what I'm talking about when I tell you that you need to prepare for the next phase of this fight. It's not about taking back the 2A, that can't be taken back because no matter what they do, it's still a God given right., and it can never be take away in the first place.
It's about defeating the rot at this country's very core.
If anyone thinks that one person can make that plan, or win that fight, alone; they're not us, they're them. Don't demand that I be that person, because I'll be dead long before that one comes to fruition.
Sanctuaries are their weapon and it's a fraud. Adopting it does not change any of that.
Militias are going to be there regardless. I hope they do the right thing, but I'm not counting on them to win this either.
This country became a country on the backs of the Minutemen; solitary individuals with the means, the intention, and the honest before God commitment. Being the Grey man, The Minuteman, is not doing nothing; it's doing everything you can do legitimately and without threatening the decent folks, values, and institutions that form this country. Be ready in a minute, threaten no one, be the example that others can follow.
None of this is new, or offensive to liberty and freedom.
...And yes, someone did say "Arizona".
When the big one comes to town for the big fight, it's coming to Arizona.
I'm already there and waiting. Pick a minute; any minute. If I'm alive, I'm ready.
Greg
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Greg, I appreciate the clarification of your suggestions. I agree with a great deal of it and have said many of those things in this thread and others. I've been saying all along that the worst thing that could happen is something suit up and go postal on people. That would just cement the other side into their battle and bring a lot more money and people from their side into the battle. I think that's an idea that's not going to do us any good.
I don't pretend to have the answer, as I have stated many posts ago in this thread, I'm not a retired Special Forces guy, I'm a small business owner. I'm not the guy to look to for direction. I'm probably not even the right guy to follow directions because if I think it's a bad idea, I'm probably not going to follow you far
I'm just trying to take advice and direction from people (like the VCDL) who have been in this fight for a while and do what I can do with the limited resources (brain power) that I have.
The leader of the VCDL made it very clear early on, we're screwed and all we can do is try to stand still instead of going backwards but make no mistake, there is no chance of any forward movement in this session. It's like going through a divorce. No matter what you do, it's going to suck and you're not going to be happy but you have to take what you can at this point in time and listen to the advice of those who do know, and carry forward.
Appreciate you taking me at my word and explaining your side. I don't think we have very different opinions of this topic at all.
I don't pretend to have the answer, as I have stated many posts ago in this thread, I'm not a retired Special Forces guy, I'm a small business owner. I'm not the guy to look to for direction. I'm probably not even the right guy to follow directions because if I think it's a bad idea, I'm probably not going to follow you far
I'm just trying to take advice and direction from people (like the VCDL) who have been in this fight for a while and do what I can do with the limited resources (brain power) that I have.The leader of the VCDL made it very clear early on, we're screwed and all we can do is try to stand still instead of going backwards but make no mistake, there is no chance of any forward movement in this session. It's like going through a divorce. No matter what you do, it's going to suck and you're not going to be happy but you have to take what you can at this point in time and listen to the advice of those who do know, and carry forward.
Appreciate you taking me at my word and explaining your side. I don't think we have very different opinions of this topic at all.
That’s exactly right.
His main issue now is after 2 dismal debate performances no one is going to have him be their nominee as Trump would eat his lunch face to face.
Doesn’t stop him from throwing money at it though and throwing money at things that aren’t his concern.
"If you see this as a losing battle, and are willing to accept that it's just a tradeoff of time for..., what? Then maybe you're not who you think you are. Personally I think you are, but if you think you're losing, you're losing. You just need to figure out that you're the one who decides who's losing, and decide you're not. You don't lose until you give up."
I was speaking of in the ultimate long term for all of us. Refer to my mention of the changing population demographic. What happened in Virginia is exactly representative of the larger scale...More people moving to cities and becoming more and more Nanny Staters. Its virtually inevitable. Does that mean Ill lay down...absolutely not, Ill fight as long as there is a drop of blood left, but Im also smart enough to see and admit that 'Change Happens" and not always for the best. Look at your own NY. A huge rural area controlled by a few square miles. California...same scenario, the huge rural areas controlled ba a couple population centers, Washington, New Mexico, Oregun, and on and on. Texas is in their sights.
There is a dark evil force amidst us. Its been working out its plan of control and dominance for eons. Ultimately it will fail but not without great tribulation.
I agree, and we aren't...
I won't go into depth about it, but if some think that Virginians will accept unconstitutional gun control, well then they are not opening their eyes.
They can pass all of their feel good fairy tale laws that they want, that doesn't mean that people will comply.
In Va, we are well armed, many well trained and never willing to lose our freedom.
Many better men than I, have paid for this freedom with their blood, why would we not defend it?
Still, we all know that it is the ballot box, soap box, jury box and then and only then, God forbid, the ammo box.
Nobody wants things to ever get that bad, well some do but certainly not anyone sane.
I think we will beat this by being smart and the crooked politicians will pay dearly at the ballot box, come 2020 & 2021.
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