DeLane Dev Grp V-22S Single Shot Support
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
If you are asking me, it all depends on what stock you are using, and if it has pillars, and has been bedded. I think you better let Mike B. answer that.
Evelio.
So it is finally home. I first installed the barrelled action in a McMillan light hunter BR stock I had home. It is ok but will be much nicer when I put it in the PR and T lowboy stock I am waiting for. Still have not shot it but have tried the action and trigger with snap caps. Action is very solidly and precisely built and Flavio Fare trigger is really nice. Here are a few pics. Sorry that I am not a better photographer.
Gilbert
Gilbert
Well was charged the balance of my order last week that I was to pay when rifle was done then was contacted today that it isnt done and if I still want the shilen barrel It will be a long wait. What a kick in the nuts. Very bummed out
Man I was all in bought bore teck cleaning stuff from bore teck and bought a new one piece rest for my new vudoo single shot.
Matt, I've been buying Shilen blanks from a reliable source for a couple of years now - they always had them in stock, and shipped to me within a week. Then this past summer, suddenly they were out of not just the contours I'd been using, but had zero Shilens in stock. I called and got on their waiting list 4-5 months ago; finally got a call from them about 3 weeks back saying that they'd gotten in a shipment of .900" straight cylinder blanks, and these were all they were expecting for an indefinite period of time. Was hoping to get another R5, but since I have a customer who wants the .900" blanks for a couple of his CZ455s, I took two, and was glad to get them. I'm not privy to what's going on at Shilen, but would bet that VGW is in a bind just like the rest of us when it comes to getting the Shilen blanks they need.
The Shilen is a fine barrel and worth waiting for but if it were me (and it isn't
) I would ask Vudoo if they could get me a Benchmark barrel made to my specs and ask how long the wait is.I used to wait an average of 2 to 2 1/2 years on custom knives and traditional bows so a Vudoo wait would be a breeze to me.
The wait on my knives and bows was always well worth it to me.
The wait time on a Shiloh Sharps rifle went up to 4 1/2 years at one point after the dang Quigley movie came out.
Mike B Went to the Vudoo site to try order sheet. Was I surprised to find out there is no 22VS order sheet? Mike I would like to see a updated site. Include all action, barrel, stock, and trigger options as well as tuners available and all their prices. I know the prices would be subject to change. Availability could then be talked over with Jill when she calls for order confirmation and changes made as needed including wait time for build.
Man, I’ll tell you, while I know what gets recommended but, most guns I ‘ve owned and know of generally don’t get tightened past about 30 inlbs In a properly bedded, pillared rifle.
I'd tried to loosen the two little 4-40 set screws that hold the rear of the V-22S's striker so I could unscrew the striker to change to a lighter spring out of the kit the action ships with, using a ball-end Wera 0.05 L-shaped hex wrench, but all it was doing was slipping without turning the screws. Figured I'd rounded off the hex head of both screws, and would have to use an EZ-Out to get them loose, so ordered some spare set screws, a Wera 0.05 hex driver, and etc from MSC a few days ago. A partial order with the Wera driver came today, so I pulled the bolt out of the rifle, pulled the striker assembly out of the bolt, and tried the new Wera hex driver in one of the set screws - it went a lot deeper into the screw than the L-wrench had, and it didn't take a lot of effort to loosen that screw up. Tried it in the 2nd screw, and it also loosened without any slippage of the wrench. No idea why the L-shaped wrench wouldn't slide down into the set screw far enough to work, especially since they're from the same maker, but I'm sure glad I didn't bugger-up the set screws with an EZ-Out. Swapped out the 16lb spring for the lightest one in the kit - 13lb - so when this 25-30mph with higher gusts wind dies down in a few days, I'll get the rifle out and do some testing to see if that's heavy enough to give consistent ignition.
Mic both wrenches, I see quite a bit of variation in some. Just out of curiosity...
Do you see any accuracy difference in the rifles you are referring to? I ask because in theory a properly bedded action the torque on the screws should not matter (within reason). I have tested a lot also and have yet to see a difference anywhere from 30 lb-in up to 70 lb-in when the bedding is stress free.
To be fair they refunded me the balance today until rifle is done then I pay it again
To really be able to answers your question I need to know what kind of stock are you using, and is it fully pillared and epoxy bedded ?????
Evelio.
Well, you’re probably correct, so now the question becomes why tighten well past what is likely required for stress free securing the action into the stock?
Lots of guys have done lots of testing on this.
Hell, these days, a lot of guys do not even torque them any longer, be it sporter, LV, HV, UNL. If you are not heavy handed with good bedding & hardware, if you cinch them down properly, when they get there they just stop.
I mean I’m anal and have an in lb wrench so I still do everything @30 in lb.
most do not realize how tight that really is.
If you see a change between good and snug and 30-35 in lbs, you likely have bedding issues. All these guys talking about needing to vary front to back are addressing the wrong problem. With a factory gun, sure, but if it is bedded/ pillered, something moved with a wood stock or you got a shit job.
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Agreed, I was just curious if there was a reason why you landed on 30lb-in in specific.
Well, again, not really mine. Over many years, I have shot with, talked to, tons of guys, I personally have had built, probably 15-18 rifles with wood or composite stocks, all but one bedded/pillared and this seems pretty much to be consensus opinion.
I’ve played with 25-35 in lbs.......zero impact.
Hell, my GS has probably built more championship/world record sporters on the planet.
When you’re building a wood stock, 7.5lb. total weight with scope rifle, there is not any margin for error. These are the absolute toughest BR rigs to shoot well, given only 6.5X scope. He doesn’t torque those or 10.5lb. rifles......cinch them down until they just stop without being a gorilla wrist.
WOW! That's one heck of a wait! I know it'll be worth it. Ordered mine October 2nd. Looks like I have a ways to go.....
There’s a lot of discussion about action bolt torque and I’m not certain why, other than, it appears a lot of guys overthink it. It’s primarily dependent on the stock material, bedding/pillars.
Generally, I use 65 inch pounds across the board with our NRL22/PRS type builds and have never seen playing with torque values have an impact on what’s seen at the target. For the V-22S, I have no reason to change this but can sign up to a torque range of 45 to 65 inch pounds.
MB
I've been shooting my V-22s with the action screws torque at 50 inch pounds. I've not found any reason to change as it's the best shooting rimfire I've ever owned!
I agree, and I use 20 in/lbs on all my rimfire and see no reason to change either. Point is, use whatever setting you have confidence in.
For those of you who have owned a V22 (repeater) and now have a V22S, what kind of accuracy difference have you seen?
Thanks!
Thanks!
Very little but the V22S seems a bit more consistently accurate. What I was saying is that I have both guns and the V-22 is a wonderful rifle and shoots extremely well (mine has a 18" Bartlein barrel). My V-22S has a 24" Shilen Ratchet barrel.
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It would be more helpful if you explained the problem you are seeing.
Tim, if you're going to be bitchy, then maybe take some time off from the Forum. If you're going to be helpful, by all means post your suggestions.
Respectfully,
RFS99
Usually, it is absolutely pointless to weigh in on internet group postings but for Gods sake, make SOME reasonable attempt to be accurate every once in a while.
Follow along...we’ll use only #4 as an example.
Now a .22 bullet hole has a generally accepted diameter of, say, .220” properly using the outside of the smear. you wish to add/subtract a few thou....fine. If you have a group with two holes EXACTLY side by side, it would measure .220”
If you have a group with two holes, with paper in between them.....it is mathematically impossible to measure less than one bullet diameter.
Not my issue, a basic math issue. 1/2 those groups are off, but hey, what do I know. This is not very complicated folks.p
this is, after all, somewhat about precision riflery. Does that mean about all matters except accurate evaluation at some level ?
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Because the target had a fairly decent resolution and more importantly well defined grease rings, I decided I'd take a quick and dirty stab at the measurements.
It's difficult to calculate the measurement uncertainties for either my numbers or the poster's, but I've done enough of this to be fairly confident they're approximately in the +/- 0.010" range for both of us. That means there's at least a remote chance our numbers are equal, but it's doubtful.
If I had a scanned image with 300 dpi resolution I could lower the uncertainties to around +/- 0.002". There's not a single person in the whole world who can measure RF groups to 0.001", including me, and anyone with sufficient knowledge of metrology would say the same.
I've never posted on the 6x5 thread, but I have monitored it since it began and I noticed this target there a while back and thought it had better measurements than most. It's probably only about 10% from being correct and I've seen Lord knows how many that are so far off that all I can do let my jaw fall to the floor and wonder how it's possible they came up with the numbers they do.
Check my math, but I don't see anything close to 50% error rates.
Landy
Post s
It's difficult to calculate the measurement uncertainties for either my numbers or the poster's, but I've done enough of this to be fairly confident they're approximately in the +/- 0.010" range for both of us. That means there's at least a remote chance our numbers are equal, but it's doubtful.
If I had a scanned image with 300 dpi resolution I could lower the uncertainties to around +/- 0.002". There's not a single person in the whole world who can measure RF groups to 0.001", including me, and anyone with sufficient knowledge of metrology would say the same.
I've never posted on the 6x5 thread, but I have monitored it since it began and I noticed this target there a while back and thought it had better measurements than most. It's probably only about 10% from being correct and I've seen Lord knows how many that are so far off that all I can do let my jaw fall to the floor and wonder how it's possible they came up with the numbers they do.
Check my math, but I don't see anything close to 50% error rates.
Landy
Post s
Tim, this is my thread and most of the people that post here are Vudoo customers....knock it the frig off, especially as it relates to my customers. I wouldn't say this any differently if it was someone acting like your post above directed toward you.
Thanks,
MB
Excellent shooting brother. Should only get better from here .... Keep posting. I look forward to everyone's updates. I have the exact setup down to the scope. We are in a deep freeze here in Pa but will shoot soon. What rings did u go with with the T36?
Is the V-22S More Accurate Than the V-22?
Post #1234 to this thread posed a question about comparative accuracy between the V-22S and V-22. The next post responded that there was little difference between the two but the V-22S “seems a bit more consistently accurate”. Then that topic went dark.
Certainly, Mike Bush is the best qualified to respond to this question and maybe he’ll weigh in when he sees this topic still has life. In the mean time I’ve thought about how to answer this question and have some thoughts to share.
I own both a repeater and a single shot Vudoo - both complete factory builds. I’ve shot the repeater for over two years and the single shot for less than two months. I’ve put only about 250 rounds through the V-22S.
Comparing the two rifles (or actions) is like comparing apples and oranges. Rifles built on these actions are “purpose” built and each of the build components was selected for a specific type of shooting. My V-22S is built with barrel, tuner, trigger, stock and scope specific to shooting 50 yard targets from the bench. The V-22 uses components better suited to positional shooting at various distances.
In order to make a true comparison between the two you’d have to set up an “all things being equal” experiment and that’s not practical for most shooters.
I believe that VGW and especially Mike Bush’s design expectations for the V-22S were to achieve significantly greater accuracy for F-Class and Benchrest shooters and it’s my limited experience that he’s achieved that goal. My first three five-round groups measured C-T-C 0.14”, 0.17” and 0.18” with off-the-shelf Midas Plus ammo. I don’t think I’ve ever measured five-round groups with my repeater that were less that 0.20”.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that my three lug/mid lock-up V-22S chambered with a 24” Shilen Ratchet barrel and a 1 ounce Vudoo Flavio Fare trigger is far more accurate than my V-22 with an 18” Ace barrel and a half-pound Timney Calvin Elite trigger. It also helps that I shoot my V-22S from a one-piece rest whereas the V-22 is typically shot from either a two piece rest or a bipod and rear bag.
I think that a benchrest rifle built on a V-22S action that’s tuned to “match” rifle specifications and shot by an experienced shooter is capable of podium finishes in national competitions. We’re just starting to see performance data from V-22S builds and it’ll be later in the year before a Vudoo appears in heads-up competition.
Vudoo has done their job by delivering a product. Time will tell how well shooters can configure this action to win matches!!!
Post #1234 to this thread posed a question about comparative accuracy between the V-22S and V-22. The next post responded that there was little difference between the two but the V-22S “seems a bit more consistently accurate”. Then that topic went dark.
Certainly, Mike Bush is the best qualified to respond to this question and maybe he’ll weigh in when he sees this topic still has life. In the mean time I’ve thought about how to answer this question and have some thoughts to share.
I own both a repeater and a single shot Vudoo - both complete factory builds. I’ve shot the repeater for over two years and the single shot for less than two months. I’ve put only about 250 rounds through the V-22S.
Comparing the two rifles (or actions) is like comparing apples and oranges. Rifles built on these actions are “purpose” built and each of the build components was selected for a specific type of shooting. My V-22S is built with barrel, tuner, trigger, stock and scope specific to shooting 50 yard targets from the bench. The V-22 uses components better suited to positional shooting at various distances.
In order to make a true comparison between the two you’d have to set up an “all things being equal” experiment and that’s not practical for most shooters.
I believe that VGW and especially Mike Bush’s design expectations for the V-22S were to achieve significantly greater accuracy for F-Class and Benchrest shooters and it’s my limited experience that he’s achieved that goal. My first three five-round groups measured C-T-C 0.14”, 0.17” and 0.18” with off-the-shelf Midas Plus ammo. I don’t think I’ve ever measured five-round groups with my repeater that were less that 0.20”.
I’m going to go out on a limb and say that my three lug/mid lock-up V-22S chambered with a 24” Shilen Ratchet barrel and a 1 ounce Vudoo Flavio Fare trigger is far more accurate than my V-22 with an 18” Ace barrel and a half-pound Timney Calvin Elite trigger. It also helps that I shoot my V-22S from a one-piece rest whereas the V-22 is typically shot from either a two piece rest or a bipod and rear bag.
I think that a benchrest rifle built on a V-22S action that’s tuned to “match” rifle specifications and shot by an experienced shooter is capable of podium finishes in national competitions. We’re just starting to see performance data from V-22S builds and it’ll be later in the year before a Vudoo appears in heads-up competition.
Vudoo has done their job by delivering a product. Time will tell how well shooters can configure this action to win matches!!!
Ozark Shooter, I think it's safe to say that Vudoo is producing top of the line rifles for both positional and benchrest work. It might be slightly premature to show data about how well the V22s shoots in formal matches, but that will come this year as the rollout continues and weather warms to restart the formal match "season". Your summary is spot-on and I look forward to seeing how well the new addition to the Vudoo family performs!
RFS99
I have no doubt that the V22S itself will be as capable as any other action out there if the rest of the components are up to the task. The real test will come when every shot counts. No more groups at your leisure. Once that clocks starts and you only have 20 or 25 shots for score, things get real fast. I can't speak to F Class, but take any of the BR targets and shoot them as you would for a match in the time allotted and see where you are at. That is the only real test. And to be honest, it still isn't like shooting in a match. I see a lot of groups here, but score is what we are after at the end of the day if you plan to compete.
Hozzie,
I'm in agreement with your statements. I bought a V-22S RB/RP action, since I expected to shoot more F-Class prone matches than BR. However, I've yet to hear of any 22RF F-Class matches in the region, but have been invited to shoot ARA BR matches at a location within reasonable driving distance. After shooting a few hundred rounds through my V-22S, I'm very impressed with some of the groups, but this is the 1st & only 22RF BR rig I've ever used - and this is the first time I've ever shot off a one-pc rest. Got a lot to learn, but at this point in time, I'm starting to wish I'd have ordered a RB/LP action for BR shooting. The joy stick one-pc rest is head & shoulders above the front rest/rear bunny ear bag I started with, but in order to finish up a 25-bull card without undue haste, the left eject & load action looks to have quite an advantage. Wonder if there are any RF F-class shooters out there using a RB/LP action, and if so, how they're getting along with it?
I'm in agreement with your statements. I bought a V-22S RB/RP action, since I expected to shoot more F-Class prone matches than BR. However, I've yet to hear of any 22RF F-Class matches in the region, but have been invited to shoot ARA BR matches at a location within reasonable driving distance. After shooting a few hundred rounds through my V-22S, I'm very impressed with some of the groups, but this is the 1st & only 22RF BR rig I've ever used - and this is the first time I've ever shot off a one-pc rest. Got a lot to learn, but at this point in time, I'm starting to wish I'd have ordered a RB/LP action for BR shooting. The joy stick one-pc rest is head & shoulders above the front rest/rear bunny ear bag I started with, but in order to finish up a 25-bull card without undue haste, the left eject & load action looks to have quite an advantage. Wonder if there are any RF F-class shooters out there using a RB/LP action, and if so, how they're getting along with it?
