DeLane Development Group Rimfire Ventures
- Thread starter RAVAGE88
- Start date
I still fall back on getting the maker of the actions, back into the picture. Let them work in partnership with an established builder of Precision Rifles or barreled actions, and a builder who does not live or die off the profits made from buying and selling one low profit margin action. MPA and GAPrecision or two that come to mind.
This isn’t a solution that properly serves the community, but a reaction to the currently known predicament. I’ll explain why in a post I’ll make here within the next eight hours.
MB
No worries, I’ll wait. Like at my age why am I even taking part in this conversation? Purchasing another rifle makes no sense when I need to be divesting our collection of single action handguns, hunting rifles and other firearms that haven’t seen the light of day in a long, long time. Still, the Vudoo I took delivery last April, has been one of the joys of my life, virtually taking over all my shooting time and energy. I suppose that’s why I am so concerned. If Vudoo was stable, Another might actually be a future purchase if my blessed good health continues.
Dude, you are THE guy that should be contributing and I’m glad you’re here. Stay tuned.
MB
I have no dog in this fight ( making do with much less expensive rifles but do see the appeal of a first class 22 bolt gun) but perhaps all this worry is for naught? Sure things could have been handled much better in regards to communications and not taking orders days prior to a relocation. But maybe everything works out in the end? I suspect the staff existing at the time of the closure were blind sided and had no idea it was coming?
Not sure you have seen all the posts on this and other forums where people have paid VGW in full for rifles that were not delivered.
IF VGW was going to stay in business and maintain a healthy reputation they would have contacted those people at the very least. They would also have noted their website instead of letting people order and pay for parts and accessories that they likely won't get. A simple notation on the VGW website telling your loyal clients you were going to be away from email and phones during the move would have been proper. These things and the fact that they quit paying their vendors a couple months ago all point to something that smells like a tequila poop in your girl friend's undies.
Ok, so it's pretty easy to say that the last three weeks have been quite interesting. Part of what's interesting is the range of reactions, comments, concerns, and so forth, to something that has affected this community, but overall, what it means to me is the impact of what started a number of years ago has been significant. I won't break all of that down here, but what I will say is, there's a very specific outcome related to the impact of what started years ago and the news we all received a few weeks ago and ultimately, it has the potential to work incredibly well for the betterment of what we enjoy if we manage it properly.
While it's been noisy for the last three weeks, in reality, it started for me more than six months ago via various things leading up to the doors closing at VGW but, during the course of all the noise, angst, and uncertainty in the community, my attention was directed elsewhere as a matter of where and why I was willing to focus on something better.
But before I get into what's to come, I'll ask, what happens if we wait? What happens if we don't act at all? What happens if we're willing to be led around by the nose? What happens if there's an inability to seize what I mean when I say, "betterment?" Two things....the first is maintaining status quo in the community, and the second, unfortunately, is to go backwards. What we've come to know over many years is how to wring out the capabilities of a mid-lock rimfire action. The 40X led the way, but never reliably as a repeater and that changed for the community beginning in August 2017. Shortly after the intro, two other companies did what? That age old process of R&D....Ripoff and Duplicate (I'm being descriptive, not critical, they did a great job). So, more mid-lock rimfire actions entered the market.
So now, if what was recommended in post #11,205 occurs, it occurs because someone let status quo be acceptable. Someone allowed the arrogance of those that have been part of the problem, and knows no ones name in this community, to dictate the path when they're darn good and ready and the market will never be pushed to what is considered an advancement. The go backwards option is to go the route of at least two nearly identical 40X copies, which means we've not come very far at all in some number of years.
Before I get to the part you guys are waiting for, I’ll say that I started this thread in August 2017. I'm keeping the thread as a continuation of A LOT of history and as a measuring device to how far we can take this thing, but it now has a new name. I'm not quite sure yet what to do with the Single Shot thread, but I'll sit on that for at least another day. My initial thoughts are to delete it and move the Single Shot topic into this thread by way of anyone having a question, comment or news about the Single Shot to just post it.
So now, what's the path? I formed a company called DeLane Development Group, LLC. What I've decided based on tons of outreach from this community and lots of research is, I'm going to support the current Vudoo owners by supplying high quality spare parts to keep your current rifles running for as long as you care to shoot them. I struggled with this decision, but, I can't abandon the platform nor will I abandon the community that has supported me over the years. I'll say, I'm not doing the parts because it has anything to do with money, it's likely a break-even venture, but I feel I owe it to the people that have put their faith in something that has my name on it. I don't plan to stock a lot of inventory, but certainly enough to ship quickly and will replenish as it makes sense. I'll be running smaller quantities so I can't guarantee the pricing will be cheaper than the prior source, but I'll work through that as I go.
Secondly, I will be introducing the next generation true-to-scale rimfire action that's designed to push the envelope beyond that of the mid-lock. This action will be one of three available rimfire actions (none of which will be based on the 40X) that a multitude of platforms will utilize. Due to the reaction I'll likely get from some that won't take this as good news, this is all the detail I'm prepared to provide at the moment.
Next steps. Those interested in spare parts can contact me at: [email protected]. As I did back in 2015-'16 time-frame with assembling and shipping magazines and doing 40X Repeater Conversions, I'll keep a running log and ship individual parts based on what parts are ordered. I'll also create parts kits of the most used parts and that kit will have its own part number. As I mentioned in at least a couple posts, I gave away what parts I had to guys that reached out early, so I will be building inventory starting tomorrow. Those that don't email me can reach me via PM and we can also keep the dialogue running in this thread. The intent of me announcing this is to provide some breathing room for those that have reached out and those that have expressed concerns about parts on various forums.
Now, how can you guys help me? First, I don't do mainstream social media like Facebook, Instagram, etc. At some point, I'll create a DeLane Development Group FB page, but until I announce that it's up and running, please spread the word on social media for those that are anxious about it. I've received several screen shots where the topic is parts availability, so I'm aware that the concern is widespread.
Lastly, I'll no longer talk about Vudoo (the company) or entertain details about their future, speculation of what happened, etc. However, I will discuss the rifles as it pertains to supporting them by way of parts or other technical/functional questions. My focus is to move forward and focus on what specifically benefits this community. If they re-open, move, whatever; great, I wish them the best, but to me, moving and re-opening is of no consequence as I only care about advancing what we all enjoy.
From here, I imagine it will be mere seconds before the floodgates open, so, I'm strapped in and ready to go.
Thank you to all of you....here we go.
MB
DeLane Development Group, LLC
While it's been noisy for the last three weeks, in reality, it started for me more than six months ago via various things leading up to the doors closing at VGW but, during the course of all the noise, angst, and uncertainty in the community, my attention was directed elsewhere as a matter of where and why I was willing to focus on something better.
But before I get into what's to come, I'll ask, what happens if we wait? What happens if we don't act at all? What happens if we're willing to be led around by the nose? What happens if there's an inability to seize what I mean when I say, "betterment?" Two things....the first is maintaining status quo in the community, and the second, unfortunately, is to go backwards. What we've come to know over many years is how to wring out the capabilities of a mid-lock rimfire action. The 40X led the way, but never reliably as a repeater and that changed for the community beginning in August 2017. Shortly after the intro, two other companies did what? That age old process of R&D....Ripoff and Duplicate (I'm being descriptive, not critical, they did a great job). So, more mid-lock rimfire actions entered the market.
So now, if what was recommended in post #11,205 occurs, it occurs because someone let status quo be acceptable. Someone allowed the arrogance of those that have been part of the problem, and knows no ones name in this community, to dictate the path when they're darn good and ready and the market will never be pushed to what is considered an advancement. The go backwards option is to go the route of at least two nearly identical 40X copies, which means we've not come very far at all in some number of years.
Before I get to the part you guys are waiting for, I’ll say that I started this thread in August 2017. I'm keeping the thread as a continuation of A LOT of history and as a measuring device to how far we can take this thing, but it now has a new name. I'm not quite sure yet what to do with the Single Shot thread, but I'll sit on that for at least another day. My initial thoughts are to delete it and move the Single Shot topic into this thread by way of anyone having a question, comment or news about the Single Shot to just post it.
So now, what's the path? I formed a company called DeLane Development Group, LLC. What I've decided based on tons of outreach from this community and lots of research is, I'm going to support the current Vudoo owners by supplying high quality spare parts to keep your current rifles running for as long as you care to shoot them. I struggled with this decision, but, I can't abandon the platform nor will I abandon the community that has supported me over the years. I'll say, I'm not doing the parts because it has anything to do with money, it's likely a break-even venture, but I feel I owe it to the people that have put their faith in something that has my name on it. I don't plan to stock a lot of inventory, but certainly enough to ship quickly and will replenish as it makes sense. I'll be running smaller quantities so I can't guarantee the pricing will be cheaper than the prior source, but I'll work through that as I go.
Secondly, I will be introducing the next generation true-to-scale rimfire action that's designed to push the envelope beyond that of the mid-lock. This action will be one of three available rimfire actions (none of which will be based on the 40X) that a multitude of platforms will utilize. Due to the reaction I'll likely get from some that won't take this as good news, this is all the detail I'm prepared to provide at the moment.
Next steps. Those interested in spare parts can contact me at: [email protected]. As I did back in 2015-'16 time-frame with assembling and shipping magazines and doing 40X Repeater Conversions, I'll keep a running log and ship individual parts based on what parts are ordered. I'll also create parts kits of the most used parts and that kit will have its own part number. As I mentioned in at least a couple posts, I gave away what parts I had to guys that reached out early, so I will be building inventory starting tomorrow. Those that don't email me can reach me via PM and we can also keep the dialogue running in this thread. The intent of me announcing this is to provide some breathing room for those that have reached out and those that have expressed concerns about parts on various forums.
Now, how can you guys help me? First, I don't do mainstream social media like Facebook, Instagram, etc. At some point, I'll create a DeLane Development Group FB page, but until I announce that it's up and running, please spread the word on social media for those that are anxious about it. I've received several screen shots where the topic is parts availability, so I'm aware that the concern is widespread.
Lastly, I'll no longer talk about Vudoo (the company) or entertain details about their future, speculation of what happened, etc. However, I will discuss the rifles as it pertains to supporting them by way of parts or other technical/functional questions. My focus is to move forward and focus on what specifically benefits this community. If they re-open, move, whatever; great, I wish them the best, but to me, moving and re-opening is of no consequence as I only care about advancing what we all enjoy.
From here, I imagine it will be mere seconds before the floodgates open, so, I'm strapped in and ready to go.
Thank you to all of you....here we go.
MB
DeLane Development Group, LLC
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Let me be the first to wish you success. More later, I'm wary of those floodgates.
Good to hear MB, very happy to see support and future development.
Magazines are a big question. Would love to have future access to new mags for current vudoos. Would love to see if there any future mods/upgrades to existing platform. Couple of my match competitors are all ready lamenting not buying enough mags when they were available.
Will the new future platform use the current mag system?
Again, happy to see you back and active.
Magazines are a big question. Would love to have future access to new mags for current vudoos. Would love to see if there any future mods/upgrades to existing platform. Couple of my match competitors are all ready lamenting not buying enough mags when they were available.
Will the new future platform use the current mag system?
Again, happy to see you back and active.
Yo Dude, thank you, I really appreciate that and it's good to be back and active.
Magazines have been a big part of my thought process for parts but also, the new true-to-scale platform. What I can say definitively is, there will be backward compatibility between the three generations of Vudoo's and what I'm currently referring to as Project 91, which means you'll have future access. I'm also planning an interim solution that I'll be able to speak to in more detail as the plans come together.
MB
Thanks, Dude,
If you have a functional Gen 1, there's no real benefit to upgrade unless you go to a vertical sear arrangement and largely, the triggers don't really exist for that. I have a couple prototype triggers in my guns, and I know of others out in the wild, but nothing in the mainstream. If you go to proto parts to get the real benefit of the Gen 1.2 fire control and have a failure, you're stuck.
MB
L3I stinger mag. Just fork the money over
For a couple and be done with magazines
That being said I have a Gen 1 and a 360 I’ll probably be looking for parts for.
Might as well pick them up as I don’t know about the future if these actions lol.
Between all of the adjustability in the mag and in the chassis, I couldn’t get that mag to feed as good as factory Vudoo. I ended up with a couple different extensions and Anarchy Outdoors followers in Vudoo polymer mags without any feeding issues.
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I certainly hope not. Vudoos are great but the mags are weakest link.
Same. Always shaved lead. Tested in two actions and three chassis. Ultimately factory fed better
Very interesting read there & I smell something very interesting between the lines that I left in the quote.
I'll put my guess in a pm to see if I'm in the ballpark or just delusional.
edit,
PM sent
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I hope you keep the V22s thread separated from this thread so the single shot info won't get lost in the "jumble". I know there are lots of comments on the mags for the repeater version and other issues, but they are different actions with different issues to some extent. JMO
I sure hope you keep the single shot separate, lot of time and money spent on my V22S trying to make it competitive.
Based on what you guys are saying is why I struggled with what to do with the thread, but I hear you and won't delete it. So far, I removed the brand from the title and will leave the rest as is. I'll continue to monitor that thread and respond if called upon.
Thanks Guys, your input is important.
MB
Ok, so I waded into the land of FB and joined the Vudoo Owners Club, Rimfire Tactical, 22 Rimfire Precision/ELR and Competitive 22LR Gear Talk. I've not yet formed the DeLane Development Group page, but will get to that later. I'm not going to go all social media crazy, so I won't be accepting friend requests or posting anything other than what serves the efforts of moving this stuff forward.
MB
MB
I agree. Friend requests can go crazy.
Likes and Following are workable, but multiple friend request gets out of hand far too quickly. (Especially for a business).
Exactly the same experience here. It will feed but never as smooth as factory mags no matter how I adjust it
I wish you luck & patience with this one.
Quote from Helen "Mama" Boucher, Facebook "is the devil"
It's nice & quiet under my rock most of the time.
@RAVAGE88 the biggest question is what is your timeline for release?
About 4 weeks. He’s moving from CT to OK. lol sorry. Too easy.
I quit FB about 20 years ago. I reluctantly had to get back on because my town, school district, and other organizations decided that they would use it as their official channel to communicate even though they have their own websites (that never get updated).
So I created a new profile and follow groups, but have accepted zero friend requests and have sent zero friend requests.
So, best of luck with FB, and you've got the right attitude. Use is sparingly and please keep us posted here. I only go to FB as a last resort.
And keep us lefty shooters in mind too please.
So I created a new profile and follow groups, but have accepted zero friend requests and have sent zero friend requests.
So, best of luck with FB, and you've got the right attitude. Use is sparingly and please keep us posted here. I only go to FB as a last resort.
And keep us lefty shooters in mind too please.
I’m no mechanical engineer nor a gunsmith, but man, it sure seems in the hierarchy of gun wizards, magazine designer is viewed as the sweaty bad-toothed foul-of-breath bumpkin.
Lowly he may first appear, but turns out he’s actually the persnickety Final Boss of this video game we call firearms development.
Don't start with me, Dude....@RAVAGE88 the biggest question is what is your timeline for release?
MB
Maybe one could trade steel hardness / quality for mag design with Zermatt?
I just saw on YouTub Pursuit of Accuracy had a live chat. There were several questions about Vudoo going out of business and what
was going to happen with existing rifle. He has a few Vudoo rifles and a decent following. You might want to let him know what is going on and your plans.
was going to happen with existing rifle. He has a few Vudoo rifles and a decent following. You might want to let him know what is going on and your plans.
I was watching a video of Gun Jesus a while back where he was doing a class on the history of magazines and different designs. He said it is not uncommon for the magazine to essentially be designed first and then the rest of the rifle around it.I cannot believe I was right, for once.
22 Hornet payment Zelled mwhahahaha
I shot a match with the owner of Alta Arms last weekend. He is now coming out with a new style of magazine for rimfire in the 700 footprint. He started with the Rim-x, and was running that at the match. It worked great for him. He also said he is releasing a vudoo and bergara version in a couple weeks. It has the angled feed ramp format like rim-x. Also improved the springs and changed adjustment style. Looking at the work he did on the rim-x, the vudoo one is going to be pretty awesome. Some pictures on his instagram and Facebook.
Mags are a tough spot as you are sending a tiny bullet into a tiny hole so any misalignment will mess that up. I would bet that the problem is not so much the magazine itself but the magazine to bottom metal interface. I have had the same magazines for years and in some stocks they feed fine and in others they give issues. Same mags. Different interface. So having a way to adjust it whether in the stock/chassis or the mag would be ideal.
Also pressure against the mag is another issue but easier to fix with a mag block so the bag cant contact the mag.
Also pressure against the mag is another issue but easier to fix with a mag block so the bag cant contact the mag.
I actually believe you can make money. You should make money because that's how capitalism works. You deserve to make money for filling a void that is needed AND in demand. Please, do NOT price yourself out of business out of some sort of "I have to do this for my people" low price business model. You're not working on volume here. We paid a lot to get into the game, there's no reason to look for bargains now. It's not a cheap hobby or sport and certainly not at this level. I want you to be around when I need you and not be like other's with "I should have bought spares when they were still in business."
I put a $300 trigger in my Vudoo and I spent approximately $.25 per trigger pull. I haven't kept track but I would assume I've spent more on ammo than the rifle. And I get nothing back, beyond experience, once I decide to get out, where the rifle has resale value. Especially if there's quality refurbishment parts available. Especially from the guy who designed the system. Don't get me wrong, I like saving money and I spend wisely. But I also don't like buying shit (I consider that spending wisely). There's a plethora of budget minded .22lr rifles. A Vudoo and you are not that market. I, and many others, have $3500-4000 dollar scopes on these things. $2500+ chassis'. $500 chronographs. $600+ bipods. Etc. Plus all the other ancillary equipment to go with it. Bargain shoppers are the worst. They're never happy and complain the most (I owned and operated retail business' for 25 years, I know them well
). We know and understand quality costs and are willing to pay for it as long as it is quality. I can only imagine all the nay sayers when you began the Vudoo experiment poopooing that NO ONE will pay that much for a .22lr rifle. And lastly, learn from Vudoo's mistake of slim margins.Also, thank you for taking this on. It's no small feat but you ARE the guy to do it. I wish you the best and lucrative future.
I hear you, and I appreciate everything you're saying, I just need the community to know that I'm not predatory. Money isn't my trophy and what I need will come because I earned it. What you've stepped up to say here, is exactly why I came back.I actually believe you can make money. You should make money because that's how capitalism works. You deserve to make money for filling a void that is needed AND in demand. Please, do NOT price yourself out of business out of some sort of "I have to do this for my people" low price business model. You're not working on volume here. We paid a lot to get into the game, there's no reason to look for bargains now. It's not a cheap hobby or sport and certainly not at this level. I want you to be around when I need you and not be like other's with "I should have bought spares when they were still in business."
I put a $300 trigger in my Vudoo and I spent approximately $.25 per trigger pull. I haven't kept track but I would assume I've spent more on ammo than the rifle. And I get nothing back, beyond experience, once I decide to get out, where the rifle has resale value. Especially if there's quality refurbishment parts available. Especially from the guy who designed the system. Don't get me wrong, I like saving money and I spend wisely. But I also don't like buying shit (I consider that spending wisely). There's a plethora of budget minded .22lr rifles. A Vudoo and you are not that market. I, and many others, have $3500-4000 dollar scopes on these things. $2500+ chassis'. $500 chronographs. $600+ bipods. Etc. Plus all the other ancillary equipment to go with it. Bargain shoppers are the worst. They're never happy and complain the most (I owned and operated retail business' for 25 years, I know them well
Also, thank you for taking this on. It's no small feat but you ARE the guy to do it. I wish you the best and lucrative future.
Thanks, Dude....
MB
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