FBI declares Sig 320/ ‘M17/ M18 unfit for duty
- Thread starter nagantguy
- Start date
Sigs didn't go off, the Feds were just happy to see you.Man, I can always count on a select few members here to take a good, wholesome Sig bashing thread and make it gay…
ICE has also ditched the Sig 320 m17/18 platform.
I’m sure all the ones issued by our armed forces are just fine and fit for service
Yeah I was stone-ignorant on the closure of SIG/Sauer (what I considered SIG global). I thought it still existed -- and I was wondering when their CEO would go public with "that's not us that's Ronnie's company and we do things differently." Well that can't happen if they are mothballed.
I only briefly heard about it sometime back because I “followed” their Mastershop pistols (by then, only superficially - everything started getting really fugly right after they added rails to their dust covers) - brushed it off as fake news and didn’t really look into it.
EDIT:
“Real SIG.”
Willing to overlook front slide serrations (not bad, well - implemented aesthetically) and the very American beavertail (grossly offensive!).
They added a rail?
Oh, jeez…
I suppose the weights, comps, and red dot mounts all needed some place to go, whatever…
“Meh.”
Reeks of unsophisticated, boorish Americanization.
Entirely personal preference, of course.
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Well looks ain’t t everything , that one may not shoot you from the holster that has to account for something!
True, true
I still seem to get similar results when shooting my secondhand Glock 17L.
My “Legacy” X6 Level 1 pistol purchases were admittedly leaning on the vanity side of things.
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Personally I suspect some users are covering up their mistakes by blaming the gun for a misfire. I have several P320s and feel very confident.
You have some upper level bureaucrat worried by safety or getting sued, and taking the easy way out by choosing Glock. Glocks are good, very reliable, but I believe the P320 trigger system to be a better design.
You have some upper level bureaucrat worried by safety or getting sued, and taking the easy way out by choosing Glock. Glocks are good, very reliable, but I believe the P320 trigger system to be a better design.
So good ya don’t even need to pull the awesome trigger - it pulls itself !
Who are the FBI ICE Illinois and MI state police and DHS covering for by saying the striker saftey assembly on their duty pistols are failing and making uncommanded discharges?
they pass on the p226 in favor of the M9......and then go with the awful 320 a generation later.
even a Canik is better than a 320 at this point.
even a Canik is better than a 320 at this point.
I think its on Pam Bondi's desk right next to the Ebstein files should be out any day now!
Nothing to read ; no point in it - Sig firmly and confidently let us know “It ends Today” some weeks ago that’s all we should need - never question a garbage tier gun builder who is a spin off of a now defunct once decent company
Whatever it is, it has to be somekinda plastic fantastic striker to be cost - effective…
I am kind of partial to the H&K USPs being “equal in build to the metal pistols,” but their mechanisms are considerably more complex than a Glock’s. That little part you swap to enable external safeties / decocking / different action modes is absolute genius - but along those lines, there are too many little things and parts that need to align perfectly during manufacture; such are hammer + sear designs.
Maybe something along the lines of a VP9 would have been nice, but one has to admit - Glocks are cheapo soulless bulletproof staplegun Perfection
that simply work when you need them to.
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This is what I found online:
What got my immediate attention was the horrendous surface finish and dimensional deviations that are simply untenable for a pre-cocked, ready to fire striker mechanism. Would you carry a 1911 without safety if hammer and sear looked like this garbage? Oh, and let's not forget that the affected SIG pistols have the additional complication of movement between slide and frame influencing the sear engagement.
If you design a fire control group with that much inherent risk (pre cocked striker, able to set off a primer) in the presence of inevitable slide to frame movement then you need material science, manufacturing and QC at the level of where Geissele operates currently. SIG USA is obvious nowhere near this league. The old SIG (Schweizerische Industrie Gesellschaft) set a high bar in metallurgy and manufacturing with the iconic P210 and even the P226/228/229 produced after the merger with Sauer were well made. These design were inherently safer and were very well executed. The downhill slide of the company started with Cohen, failing forward from Kimber. More complicated and half-baked designs while simultaneously racing to the bottom of parts quality and QC. What could possibly go wrong? BTW, Sig Sauer Swiss still exists but they closed the German plant in Eckernfoerde and now import the handgun garbage from Exeter.
PS: I am not a SIG hater. I love my P226 and P228 and think that DA/SA is a valid way to combine absolute safety with an excellent trigger. The whining about the initial heavy trigger pull is range primadonna BS. In a high stress, life or death scenario you will not even notice the difference and most likely benefit form the first shot needing a little more deliberate finger movement. If the first shot needs to be a precise one (Dickens Drill), then cock the dang hammer. I also own a SIG Cross, a smoking deal after the "voluntary recall", which was also a sear engagement issue. And then there is the SSG 3000, a reliable hammer, unfortunately obsoleted by the newer chassis designs.
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Ben stoeger seems to be keeping up with it.
m.youtube.com
Ben Stoeger
Ben Stoeger: Shooter, Instructor, Author, Podcaster, Digital Coach Youtube Shooting Instructor Benstoeger.com Benstoegerproshop.com Practicalshootingtraininggroup.com PSTG.US Books are on amazon
m.youtube.com
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He's a great shooter, but a true drama queen who posts for clicks, and plays fast and loose with the facts on Sigs and other products he doesn't like.Ben stoeger seems to be keeping up with it.
Ben Stoeger
Ben Stoeger: Shooter, Instructor, Author, Podcaster, Digital Coach Youtube Shooting Instructor Benstoeger.com Benstoegerproshop.com Practicalshootingtraininggroup.com PSTG.US Books are on amazon
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Yes I have read the report I was just wondering if anyone else had seen it.
There is a sentence in the report which states on page 5 an MSP armorer installed the MODIFIED trigger so the pics are not factory finished parts.
As far as I understand, they were focussing on the function (or failure) of the striker safety and modified other parts for that purpose.
$50 to appendix carry it for a year… actually don’t I don’t want my bet to possibly cost you your balls or life.
Yes Sig Sauer Mastershop (Germany) closed up shop in December 2020. Most of the remaining built pistols were sold to various export companies and ended up here in the US.
SIG Sauer to shutter German weapons factory – DW – 06/04/2020
Arms manufacturer SIG Sauer says it will close its German branch late this year, blaming German strictures on sports guns. Its thriving US armoury based in New Hampshire delivers arms to the US military.www.dw.com
Didn’t realize it’s been half a decade already.
Has European SIG Sauer (non - SIG USA) ceased to exist in its entirety?
The Holden Company bought all of the parts, slides, and frames. They assembled them but not as valuable because they are a hodge podge of left over parts/pieces. They are easily identified due being marked “Holden” on the frame.
I pulled that photo off the Innernetz.
I have the “Legacy” X6 Level 1 SAO (not sure if the “Level 1” suffix is applicable to the P220) models without rails in 9mm and .45 ACP, and some X5 DA/SA Allrounds in 9mm and .40 S&W.
There were probably a very few X6 examples in .40 S&W (not mentioned anywhere), because I’ve only seen one on Gunbroker (it had no rail, but had gold trim).
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yes,the creme de la creme. the H&K is 1 of the 2 best autos i have ever fired. not close to affordable. being a poor has some disadvantages
Not this model, though.
The VP9 was meant to be the “commoner’s Volkswagen“ (Volkspistole - pardon the redundancy) among its brethren when it was released…
…Something like a Glock equivalent.
Fancier H&Ks would probably be the older USP Expert and Elite models (they should NEVER have inscribed “Expert / Elite / Tactical” on the slides), along with the Mark 23.
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If you get the chance to shoot one you should try it, trust me.
What you refer to as the “Legacy” model is called a Generation 1 and Level 1 means it has the factory Sig 3 way adjustable SAO trigger, extended magazine release, and adjustable sights. The original Gen.1 had no rail but in later years they made a Gen.1 with the rail & I believe it was called a Level 1 Classic.
That SAO trigger led me to buying my P220 X6 at a ridiculously low price on Gunbroker.
Are you familiar with how the thumb safety gets “damaged” when one is inexperienced with customizing the trigger’s characteristics?
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Also have one, and while I like it, and shoot it reasonably well, I’d not compare its trigger favorably to my VP9.
This. HO LEE FUK has my S2 spoiled me.
I know everyone has their favs but CZ polymer is pretty damn good too. I shot/carried an M&P for a long while. Walther has a fantastic one (best stock striker trigger there is IMHO). The fact that everyone but Sigs works AND sig got the contract just seems sus. But then our government would NEVER be involved in backroom deals for their own benefits...
And speaking of best carry pistols, it is my obligation to say:
TWO WORLD WARS!!!!
1911 BITCHES!! I'll see myself out....
I read it yesterday, it's interesting. I'm still using my 320's for range guns. The report is posted online
If you love CZ pistols, then send them to Cajun Gun Works for their $500 package and you'll probably be addicted to them for life.
That being said, I really like my Walther PDP series pistols a lot.
Yes I also have the HK VP9 and P30 and HK45 and USP Elite and USP Tactical and all that stuff as well.
The VP9 has a nice trigger, the others well...
This line from page 5 of the report pretty much negates any non conclusions they came to.
an MSP armorer trained in the Sig Sauer P320 platform installed the subject weapon’s modified trigger.
Yep that's total B.S. Testing
Put in different parts from the factory then claim it fails.
Sorry but you need to test as it ships before making any sweeping statements.
I believe the "modified" triggers were just the regular flat face triggers. The M18 comes with a curved trigger. It was stated earlier in the report that Sig installed some, and others were installed by the MSP armorer.
And installing a trigger made for the platform- oem of reputable aftermarket shoulder not turn a weapons system into a death trap. How many aftermarket triggers you think just members here on snipers hide own?
I’m guessing more then 10
