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KAC SR-25 ECR- initial thoughts (brief mini review.)

bm11

Gunny Sergeant
Full Member
Minuteman
Jun 18, 2010
2,562
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Maine
I haven't had much time to get around to writing this, but I had made some promises about posting up a review of my ECR when I got it. I've had it for just over a week now and after this mornings rainy range session which I am leaving for in minutes, it will have had over 300 rounds down range.

First off- the packaging it comes through with is nice. It ships in a hard case, not Pelican quality but a step up from a Wal Mart case for sure. Most impressive to me is that it comes through with a thick manilla envelope with a full m110 users manual, a test target (.723") and a round count log. I'm not sure what the industry standard is for test firing a rifle, but this one had the following: 3 shots of Rem match 168 to zero the scope at 100, 5 shots of remington match to shoot the test target, and then 40 rounds of Remington UMC to test function. 48 rounds seems pretty thorough to me and more than what I imagine most manufacturers do, and what is also impressive is that the .723" 5 round 100 yard test target was the only group shot- it wasn't cherry picked.

Fit and finish on the rifle are superb, but it is to be expected at an outrageous MSRP of $5600. The bolt and carrier are in a nice hard chrome, the sand cuts on the bcg are damn cool. The offset sights it ships with are really nice. Like most, I generally zero my BUIS and then never use them because my scope never comes off, but I zero'd these and have used them a bit because all that is required is a slight turn of the rifle.

The trigger is fantastic. However, I had a SSA-E and I put it in the rifle, my preference going to the 3.5 pound trigger to the 4.5 pound trigger. I also swapped the A2 grip for a MIAD, the SOPMOD for an ACS, and the "enhanced" charging handle for a BCM Gunfighter.

For an optic I went with a Leupold MK6 3-18X44 with a Horus H58 reticle. I had been wanting to give the reticle a try, and it made the most sense on a semi (to me.) It was also 10 ounces lighter than a Schmidt 3-20, and 5 or do inches shorter, which is important, as I have been wanting to keep the weight down. I used a KAC 34 mm mount with 20 moa of cant, and at 1.4" tall it provided a perfect cheek weld (my Larue mount at 1.55" was just a little too tall.)

I also installed the KAC MAMS brake. Getting the stock FH off was a bitch. The MAMS brake keeps the muzzle flat, and is supposed to even shooting the rifle canted, that combined with effectively eliminating flash is the big selling point. It does not seem to reduce recoil as effectively as a Surefire, in my opinion.

Function has been flawless. No cycling issues, or any sort of FTE, FTF, etc. The bolt has locked back on the last round every time.

Running out of time, but how does it shoot? It shoots well. In load development I have had multiple .6's, .7's, and .8's, as we as plenty of frustrating .3's and .4's opened up to .8 or more by a stray round. I also have had plenty of 1.2's, 1.'3s, all the way up to 2", so to be clear, I am not suggesting this rifle shoots everything sub moa all day long. In fact, I am having a difficult time getting a load together that averages under MOA. All I have tried thus far are 175 SMK's, this morning I am heading in with some 155 Scenars. For the record- it shoots m118lr like shit. 1.5-2", which to me is alarming because I believe that is the exact ammo this rifle is chambered for.

All the time I have for now, I'll leave you with a pic and I will be back later to answer any questions.

20130522_184110_zps89336a1c.jpg


With an MWS:

20130522_184123_zps09c1a1fc.jpg
 
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Very nice set up. I'm venturing into the 308 AR market and have decided on the SIG 716, not in the same league as the KAC, but's that's understood. I'm also going with the Leupold Mark 6 1X6, so I'm interested in your impressions of the scope? also did you consider the Leupold IMS mount?
 
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That is one awesome rig bro! You! my friend....spend some pretty coin on pretty rifles...lol
 
Update: went out today, conditions were pretty shitty. Was drizzling the whole time. I was a little wary, as the loads I was trying were on the warm end and wet chambers never mix with warm ammo, but I didn't run into a single issue.
20130524_092537_zps445cafa0.jpg


Tried some 155 Scenars, running 0.020" off, at a COAL of 2.860", wouldn't be possible in a PMAG but the KAC mags ate all 25 rounds just fine:
20130524_092339_zps6ffff2f6.jpg


If this is the least bit repeatable, I found my load. It is exactly the same 155 Lapua Scenar load my AX shoots. I only brought one of this particular charge, but it looks great. 5 rounds into .531" with the first high, rounds 2-5 into .231"
20130524_093424_zps5660f527.jpg
 
Very nice set up. I'm venturing into the 308 AR market and have decided on the SIG 716, not in the same league as the KAC, but's that's understood. I'm also going with the Leupold Mark 6 1X6, so I'm interested in your impressions of the scope? also did you consider the Leupold IMS mount?
Well, I have a Mark 6 1-6 on another rifle, and it is a fantastic optic for a battle rifle. The red dot is great, the weight is much lighter than a Razor, and the range of 1-6x means it (and the rifle it is on) is extremely versatile. No experience with the mount though.
 
Hey thanks, I guess I "lucked out" that you have the Mark 6 1X6. Just curious what mount did you decide to go with?. On another note, the Leupold mount looks somewhat similar to the KAC one? a point that was brought to my attention on another forum. Great looking rifle and set up BTW!!
 
Hey thanks, I guess I "lucked out" that you have the Mark 6 1X6. Just curious what mount did you decide to go with?. On another note, the Leupold mount looks somewhat similar to the KAC one? a point that was brought to my attention on another forum. Great looking rifle and set up BTW!!

Sent ya a pm so we can continue your discussion of the Mark 6 1-6, as it has little to do with this thread.
 
Beautiful rifle and nice shooting. When I was in Iraq we used the mk11 mod 0 to great effect. Not sure why people bag on them. I'm running the same scope on my EBR, leupold has stepped up their game greatly. Have fun!
 
Was that at Summerhaven?
Good shooting rifle, gonna try to test any other .308 bullets?
 
Yes it was Summerhaven!

As far as other bullets- if 155 Scenars shoot, they are my favorite .308 bullet. I'll test this load again and if they perform I'll call it a day.
 
Nice looking rig and good shooting! Safe to say you're happy with your trade from the MWS to this? What powder and charge weight with the 155's?
 
Nice looking rig and good shooting! Safe to say you're happy with your trade from the MWS to this? What powder and charge weight with the 155's?

The LMT was a nice rifle. I don't have any regrets, but after LMT DID replace my 20" stainless barrel, I'm pretty confident I could have gotten it to shoot.

As far as a load- Lapua brass (shoulders bumped .002") sized with a ball and a .336 bushing, trimmed, and then neck sized at .333 without a ball. This is the only way I can get a satisfactory amount of neck tension. 46.5g of Varget, CCI 200 primer, 155 Scenar at 2.860" COAL.
 
The LMT was a nice rifle. I don't have any regrets, but after LMT DID replace my 20" stainless barrel, I'm pretty confident I could have gotten it to shoot.

As far as a load- Lapua brass (shoulders bumped .002") sized with a ball and a .336 bushing, trimmed, and then neck sized at .333 without a ball. This is the only way I can get a satisfactory amount of neck tension. 46.5g of Varget, CCI 200 primer, 155 Scenar at 2.860" COAL.

Yeah, those LMT's seem to be solid performers, I'm glad they made it right by you even though you're heading in a different direction now.
I may need to get some of those KAC mags to try in my OBR, I like that you can get some extra OAL in those. Good luck with the rest of your load development, I'll be watching the range reports for sure!
 
Yeah, those LMT's seem to be solid performers, I'm glad they made it right by you even though you're heading in a different direction now.
I may need to get some of those KAC mags to try in my OBR, I like that you can get some extra OAL in those. Good luck with the rest of your load development, I'll be watching the range reports for sure!

I believe the OBR mags are the same length? Measure them if you gey a chance, let me know. Based on my measurements mag length on the KAC mag it is 2.880".
 
I believe the OBR mags are the same length? Measure them if you gey a chance, let me know. Based on my measurements mag length on the KAC mag it is 2.880".

I'm in the hospital right now, but when I get home I'll dig one out and check. I figured they were the same length as the PMAG's that I normally use, but they could be longer.
 
Yeah, those LMT's seem to be solid performers, I'm glad they made it right by you even though you're heading in a different direction now.
I may need to get some of those KAC mags to try in my OBR, I like that you can get some extra OAL in those. Good luck with the rest of your load development, I'll be watching the range reports for sure!

KAC mags work wonderfully in OBR's.
 
bro, that is such a bad ass looking rifle.... im loving it! nice!

looking forward to you entry on the 6groups / 5shot each shootout entry friend.

elf
 
bro, that is such a bad ass looking rifle.... im loving it! nice!

looking forward to you entry on the 6groups / 5shot each shootout entry friend.

elf
Yes I'm working on it. If this 155 load averages anything decent, I'll post it up.
 
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I'm glad to see the knights is working out for you, it a great looking rig.


George
 
Nice looking rifle.

Look likes it shoots great.
Eh. So far I've had a real hard time dialing down a load that shoots well all the time. That above load turned out to be an anomaly. It held 1.5" or so yesterday on a follow up attempt. I haven't entirely shit canned it, I cleaned my bore last night after a wholly lackluster session, and found a bit of rust in my bore. I generally run stainless barrels and didn't think to clean my bore after the rainy day shooting session.

In any case, I just wanted to clarify that the above pictured half inch group is in no way typical performance out of this rifle.
 
Maybe I missed it, but have you tried anything in the 168 category? My EMC with a mark 6 1-6 tmr was printing 1 moa or less consistantly with Hornady Match 168's.
 
Maybe I missed it, but have you tried anything in the 168 category? My EMC with a mark 6 1-6 tmr was printing 1 moa or less consistantly with Hornady Match 168's.

Haven't been able to try any because I haven't found any in stock. That is the next step though.
 
FYI - a lot of Lots of M118LR are 1.5-2MOA even when fired from a MAN barrel.

I use it as that is what is used and my AB39/Mk316 supply is limited, but I would not consider it MATCH.

Good to know. Thank you.
 
Any updates with the new rifle?

Yes. Sunday 5/26 I took it to the range and results were poor. Groups mostly all above an inch. I came home and decided it might have needed to be cleaned, and I'm glad it did- first couple patches of Butch's came out rust brown. I had been shooting in the rain that Friday, came home and put the rifle in the safe. Other than my TRG-42, everything I own has a stainless or chrome lined barrel, so I hadn't thought much about the implications of wet steel.

It was a busy week at work so I wasn't able to make it out shooting until yesterday. Yesterday the rifle shot well within my requirements. I have come to the conclusion that shooting a semi auto is a tedious thing- it does NOT suffer poor technique. I settled into a rhythm- I'd shoot 10-15 rounds with my .22 trainer, either at 50 yard paper or pidgeon pieces at 100 or steel at 230y, and settle into a good groove getting a flinch free trigger press with proper follow through, before doubling up my hearing protection and shooting a 5 round group. It was 95f yesterday at the range, so I took my time to avoid chamber heat soak.

Results are as follows:

Groups are numbered and I will describe the load and mesurement of each:

Group 1 was a thrown-together load of 39.5ish grains of IMR4895 thrown (not measured and trickled) into a federal case with a CCI 200 primer and a 175 SMK at 2.805." I had extra prepped Federal cases, and some powder I wasn't using, so I threw this load together and made some up really quick figuring I could use it to foul the bore and practice some positional work. Turns out the gun likes a cold clean bore, as shot 1 is the one breaking the black. The overall measurement is 0.980". You'll notice I circled another set of smaller bullet holes to the top right, those are shots fired by my trainer at the same target spot.

Groups 2-9 all are 3x fired Lapua cases with a CCI 200 primer, all but groups 4 and 9 are RL-15 and a 175 SMK or 178 AMAX at 2.805".

Group 2: 42.8g RL-15/175 SMK: 0.623". Shot 5 is the "flier." The four shot group leading up to it measures 0.171".

Group 3: 43.2g R15/175 SMK: 1.002"

Group 4: 46.5g Varget and a 155 Scenar at 2.860". This is the load that shot a .5" group on the rainy day, I wanted to give it one last try before retiring it. Measurement is 0.890"

Group 5: 42.8g R15/175 SMK: 1.382." Being that the R15/175 SMK didn't produce any other fliers in 29 total shots, I'm going to have to call the right edge flier an anomaly. Probably a trigger press that wasn't "quite right."

Group 6: 43.2g R15/175 SMK: 0.999"

Group 7: 43.2g R15/178 AMAX: 1.017"

Group 8: 42.8g R15/178 AMAX: 0.908"

Group 9: 46.5g Varget/155 Scenar. 2.608". I was running out of time, groups 7,8 and 9 were all fired back to back, no .22 shooting in between. Apparently, there is something to this whole "let the gun cool" thing, as this group was utter GARBAGE. I had 5 more rounds but I left with them as I didn't have time to let the gun cool and it was clear to me that it/me wasn't going to shoot.

At this point, I am quite happy with my purchase. 7-9 groups were sub MOA (MOA is 1.047" at 100y.) Groups 1-8 average 0.978" (0.931 MOA.) Groups 1-6 average .979 and had I stopped there, I could have increased my best "Elfster's challenge" entry. However, the purpose of this trip was to determine if the gun would shoot with R-15, and it did, well enough to trade out my remaining Varget so I can continue to shoot. The 0.171" group that became a 0.623" group shows me that the gun really should be plenty capable, when all the moons align. And by "all the moons align" I mean that a semi is very unforgiving of imperfections. Which is fine, because my AIAX almost had gotten "boringly accurate" and this gives me a place to focus my practice because I clearly have room for improvement.

And just so you guys don't think I bought this gun for 100y group shooting, I want to clarify that I only wanted to establish a load I could be confident in, before moving out to distance. Next weekend, weather permitting, I'll be setting steel up out to 900 or so yards, and seeing how this rifle performs at the distances it is intended to be shot. However, I should have some time in between to try to make an honorable attempt at the group shot challenge!

Current round count on the rifle is 478. After next weekend the whole rifle is getting shipped to Marvin Pitts where it will be converted into a "M-110c clone." Barrel cut to 16" and ball milled, and the upper, lower, and handguard all cerakoted Magpul FDE.

Thanks for reading,

-Bob
 
Just for giggles BM11....here was my SR25 that was set up almost identical to the M110-C


Yeah I know, I saw it, and I loved it. Really a major motivating factor for wanting to do mine the same. I'm going to try my Mark 6 3-18 at distance on 8x, and if I find it practical, I'm going to buy a Mark 8 H27d. I really would love to use the rifle for some carbine stuff. Anyone think that the non chrome barrel would be too susceptible to throat wear if it it was run as a carbine here and there?
 
Yeah I know, I saw it, and I loved it. Really a major motivating factor for wanting to do mine the same. I'm going to try my Mark 6 3-18 at distance on 8x, and if I find it practical, I'm going to buy a Mark 8 H27d. I really would love to use the rifle for some carbine stuff. Anyone think that the non chrome barrel would be too susceptible to throat wear if it it was run as a carbine here and there?

Obviously your gonna wear out the barrel quicker, so maybe 4 or 5k of rounds. And its a wear item anyway....
 
man, you have some really good threads and they are very informative.... love it.

those are actually really really good groups for a new rifle and the new rig shows real promise... give it some more time and load development and you'll start hitting .75moa in no time flat.... yeah, those friggen semi-auto's really are unforgiving and it really is a learning experience for damn sure..

so far it is looking really really good BM11!!! I only wish I lived closer to you and I'd hit the range with ya!

Elf

Yes. Sunday 5/26 I took it to the range and results were poor. Groups mostly all above an inch. I came home and decided it might have needed to be cleaned, and I'm glad it did- first couple patches of Butch's came out rust brown. I had been shooting in the rain that Friday, came home and put the rifle in the safe. Other than my TRG-42, everything I own has a stainless or chrome lined barrel, so I hadn't thought much about the implications of wet steel.

It was a busy week at work so I wasn't able to make it out shooting until yesterday. Yesterday the rifle shot well within my requirements. I have come to the conclusion that shooting a semi auto is a tedious thing- it does NOT suffer poor technique. I settled into a rhythm- I'd shoot 10-15 rounds with my .22 trainer, either at 50 yard paper or pidgeon pieces at 100 or steel at 230y, and settle into a good groove getting a flinch free trigger press with proper follow through, before doubling up my hearing protection and shooting a 5 round group. It was 95f yesterday at the range, so I took my time to avoid chamber heat soak.

Results are as follows:

Groups are numbered and I will describe the load and mesurement of each:

Group 1 was a thrown-together load of 39.5ish grains of IMR4895 thrown (not measured and trickled) into a federal case with a CCI 200 primer and a 175 SMK at 2.805." I had extra prepped Federal cases, and some powder I wasn't using, so I threw this load together and made some up really quick figuring I could use it to foul the bore and practice some positional work. Turns out the gun likes a cold clean bore, as shot 1 is the one breaking the black. The overall measurement is 0.980". You'll notice I circled another set of smaller bullet holes to the top right, those are shots fired by my trainer at the same target spot.

Groups 2-9 all are 3x fired Lapua cases with a CCI 200 primer, all but groups 4 and 9 are RL-15 and a 175 SMK or 178 AMAX at 2.805".

Group 2: 42.8g RL-15/175 SMK: 0.623". Shot 5 is the "flier." The four shot group leading up to it measures 0.171".

Group 3: 43.2g R15/175 SMK: 1.002"

Group 4: 46.5g Varget and a 155 Scenar at 2.860". This is the load that shot a .5" group on the rainy day, I wanted to give it one last try before retiring it. Measurement is 0.890"

Group 5: 42.8g R15/175 SMK: 1.382." Being that the R15/175 SMK didn't produce any other fliers in 29 total shots, I'm going to have to call the right edge flier an anomaly. Probably a trigger press that wasn't "quite right."

Group 6: 43.2g R15/175 SMK: 0.999"

Group 7: 43.2g R15/178 AMAX: 1.017"

Group 8: 42.8g R15/178 AMAX: 0.908"

Group 9: 46.5g Varget/155 Scenar. 2.608". I was running out of time, groups 7,8 and 9 were all fired back to back, no .22 shooting in between. Apparently, there is something to this whole "let the gun cool" thing, as this group was utter GARBAGE. I had 5 more rounds but I left with them as I didn't have time to let the gun cool and it was clear to me that it/me wasn't going to shoot.

At this point, I am quite happy with my purchase. 7-9 groups were sub MOA (MOA is 1.047" at 100y.) Groups 1-8 average 0.978" (0.931 MOA.) Groups 1-6 average .979 and had I stopped there, I could have increased my best "Elfster's challenge" entry. However, the purpose of this trip was to determine if the gun would shoot with R-15, and it did, well enough to trade out my remaining Varget so I can continue to shoot. The 0.171" group that became a 0.623" group shows me that the gun really should be plenty capable, when all the moons align. And by "all the moons align" I mean that a semi is very unforgiving of imperfections. Which is fine, because my AIAX almost had gotten "boringly accurate" and this gives me a place to focus my practice because I clearly have room for improvement.

And just so you guys don't think I bought this gun for 100y group shooting, I want to clarify that I only wanted to establish a load I could be confident in, before moving out to distance. Next weekend, weather permitting, I'll be setting steel up out to 900 or so yards, and seeing how this rifle performs at the distances it is intended to be shot. However, I should have some time in between to try to make an honorable attempt at the group shot challenge!

Current round count on the rifle is 478. After next weekend the whole rifle is getting shipped to Marvin Pitts where it will be converted into a "M-110c clone." Barrel cut to 16" and ball milled, and the upper, lower, and handguard all cerakoted Magpul FDE.

Thanks for reading,

-Bob
 
Just an FYI - the M110C is a misnomer in all reality the M110K1. We had banded about C earlier - but any program bought guns where K guns, or K gun kits

The K gun is the same barrel as the ECC/EMC - the dimpled barrel that is chromed.
 
Just an FYI - the M110C is a misnomer in all reality the M110K1. We had banded about C earlier - but any program bought guns where K guns, or K gun kits

The K gun is the same barrel as the ECC/EMC - the dimpled barrel that is chromed.

Didn't know about the designation, but I did know the barrel was chromed. To do it right I should start with an ECC... know where I can find one?
 
Next to no-where, we are discontinuing commercial sales July 1, until the backlog (around 12 months for a SR-25) is cleaned up to a manageable number.




I'd recommend waiting until you see what is new ;)

New stuff is released at SHOT, yes? In which case, I'd be about a year out, yes?
 
So does that mean you are selling your ECR?

Didn't know about the designation, but I did know the barrel was chromed. To do it right I should start with an ECC... know where I can find one?
[MENTION=14797]Kev[/MENTION]b- the hold won't affect those will orders already?
 
So does that mean you are selling your ECR?


[MENTION=14797]Kev[/MENTION]b- the hold won't affect those will orders already?

Don't think so. If I found an ECC for the right price right quick I would buy it and sell the ECR (maybe.) But really, the ECR is perfect for me except the weight and length, both problems which can be fixed by sending it to Marvin Pitts.

In the end I think I would rather have the non chrome lined barrel anyhow, as I have never really seen a chrome barrel keep up with a non chrome.
 
bm11 crazy question, Have you tried any of the test with the barrel minus the comp? Been doing a lot of testing on my guns lately and on certain ones have seen a HUGE diff in accuracy based on plain barrel over comps and cans on a lot of them anywhere from a .50 to a .75 MOA diff at 100