There is no truth anymore.
I'd be surprised if actual historic documents, letters home, etc aren't about to meet an end Farenheit 451 style.
Read The Real Lincoln
The South Was Right
Any letters and writings of Lee or Jackson.
- Thread starter mrdrar
- Start date
There is no truth anymore.
I'd be surprised if actual historic documents, letters home, etc aren't about to meet an end Farenheit 451 style.
Read The Real Lincoln
The South Was Right
Any letters and writings of Lee or Jackson.
Hi armorpl8chikn,
first, thank you for the reply and the recommendation.
I do, however, disagree with your (perhaps facetious ?) statement regarding truth; in my limited ability to cross-reference, I found older history books as well as, e.g., Hillsdale College lessons, fairly factual.
Kindest regards,
M
first, thank you for the reply and the recommendation.
I do, however, disagree with your (perhaps facetious ?) statement regarding truth; in my limited ability to cross-reference, I found older history books as well as, e.g., Hillsdale College lessons, fairly factual.
Kindest regards,
M
Samuel Clemens once said something about reading about a few people and the enjoyment of such reading. He was on point on his second second part.
I cant just be handing them things out like "Caucasian Jacks" popcorn treats.
You're right, his previous posts are quite revealing, aren't they? One of our more obvious trolls. Do you think that we are seeing more trolls because of the political climate or is it the increasing popularity of this forum? I don't frequent other firearm forums, so I don't know if the troll problem is very common there also.
On forum after forum the Trolls multiply in election years, then disappear completely on the day of the election.
The NCAA has ruled that if my home State of Mississippi does not change it's flag, no tournaments will be played here. We host a lot of regionals and super regionals in baseball. This is gonna be interesting. Our legislature may change our flag or put it to a vote. If voted on, we may tell the NCAA to FUCK OFF!
That's something to look forward to. The Trolls do have some entertainment value, but quickly become tiresome. Especially when it's such blatant trolling. One silly question about a shotgun and then all political posts in the Pit.
Lol I hope Citizen Kane staring into my soul is a good thing.
The Rebel Flag is a symbol for a society and "culture" that required chattel slavery for its survival. It has come to represent a recalcitrant racism and a romanticized view of the Confederacy.
The "Lost Cause" movement that arose shortly after the end of the world was utter bullshit, the theory that the Civil War was really just about "state rights" and not slavery. As James Longstreet said about it, "the quarrel was over slavery" and the right to continue the practice.
I see a lot of people here who are still besotted with the "Lost Cause" propaganda that gave rise to the deification of men like Lee and Jackson and the South's "heroic" and "noble" cause.
You can never get a clear answer from the "Lost Cause" fanatics out there. Why? Because they are fundamentally racist, advocate "separation of the races" and live in a white bubble that they know is ever shrinking but don't have the guts to say so.
The "Lost Cause" movement that arose shortly after the end of the world was utter bullshit, the theory that the Civil War was really just about "state rights" and not slavery. As James Longstreet said about it, "the quarrel was over slavery" and the right to continue the practice.
I see a lot of people here who are still besotted with the "Lost Cause" propaganda that gave rise to the deification of men like Lee and Jackson and the South's "heroic" and "noble" cause.
You can never get a clear answer from the "Lost Cause" fanatics out there. Why? Because they are fundamentally racist, advocate "separation of the races" and live in a white bubble that they know is ever shrinking but don't have the guts to say so.
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Here is an accurate accounting of the Confederacy's purposes and intentions and shatters the myth that the Civil War was "really about state rights." Even if we concede it was (a condition contrary to fact, to make a point), what "rights" precisely were being fought over?
"It’s a self-delusion some use to justify neo-Confederate pride: stars-and-bars bumper stickers, or remnants of Confederate iconography woven into some of today’s state flags. “It’s about Southern pride,” they insist. “It’s about heritage”—forgetting, intentionally perhaps, that slavery and its decade-spanning echoes are very much a part of the collective American heritage. Confederate denialism, in the form of states’ rights advocacy, permits sentimentalists to keep their questionable imagery without having to address its unsavory associations.
Just how pervasive are these Confederate mythologies? An informal survey conducted in 2011 by James W. Loewen, published by the Southern Poverty Law Center, found that 55% to 75% of American teachers—“regardless of region or race”—cite states’ rights as the chief reason for Southern secession. This attitude is also reflected in a Pew Research Center poll from that same year, which found that nearly half (48%) of all Americans agreed: the Civil War was fought over states’ rights. Only 38% of those surveyed attribute the conflict to slavery.
So-called states’ rights
No one seems to be able to agree on which specific Southern rights were in danger, but that’s really beside the point. The fact is, Southern states seceded in spite of states’ rights, and the Confederacy’s founding documents offer plenty of proof.
In its constitution, Confederate leaders explicitly provided for the federal protection of slaveholding:
South Carolina was the first state to secede from the Union. On Dec. 24, 1860, its government issued a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” In it, South Carolinian leaders aired objections to laws in Northern states—specifically, those that sprung from the case of Prigg v. Pennsylvania (1842), in which the US Supreme Court ruled that state authorities could not be forced to help return fugitive slaves to the South. Ensuing individual state legislation in New England would double down on that very ruling, expressly forbidding state officials from enforcing the federal Fugitive Slave Acts, or the use of state jails to detain fugitive slaves.
In effect, South Carolina seceded because the federal government would not overturn abolitionist policies in Northern states. South Carolina seceded because the federal government would not violate a state’s right to abstain from slavery and its concomitant policies.
Taxes and tariffs
Another strain of Confederate apologia asserts secession inspired by high taxes, in the form of heavy tariffs. Once again, the neo-Confederates are wrong, and South Carolinian history proves it. The state first raised the threat of secession in 1831 and 1833, events known collectively as the Nullification Crisis. South Carolina declared the federal tariffs of 1828 and 1832 unconstitutional, and therefore null within state borders. No other state government backed the move, president Jackson threatened force, and South Carolina abandoned the idea.
No matter! A Virginian slaveholder wrote a new tariff in 1857, which was passed and generally well-received by Southern members of Congress as it stipulated a record-low rate. Thus, at the time of war, Southerners had no real reason to complain (with regards to tariffs): a plantation owner in Louisiana could export his cotton to Europe at the lowest tariff rate instituted since 1816.
Counting states, taking sides
It isn’t entirely inaccurate, however, to say that the war was fought over money. Most human conflicts are, in some way. In this case, the money issue centered around potential losses Southern titans of agribusiness would experience if slavery was abolished at the federal level. Federally mandated emancipation would require a majority of free states in the US Senate—something Southern lawmakers fought tooth-and-nail to impede.
As a result, the number of free and slave-states was kept equal until 1846, when the count reached 15 and 14, respectively. This imbalance exacerbated tensions between North and South significantly, reducing Southern leaders to a culture of extreme paranoia. Secession, in this sense, was very much a preemptive move.
The Southern aristocracy feared the impending election of Abraham Lincoln would ultimately bring about nationwide emancipation. He and his supporters were known, after all, as “black Republicans,” a term purposefully designed to conjure an image of radical abolitionism."
Source
"It’s a self-delusion some use to justify neo-Confederate pride: stars-and-bars bumper stickers, or remnants of Confederate iconography woven into some of today’s state flags. “It’s about Southern pride,” they insist. “It’s about heritage”—forgetting, intentionally perhaps, that slavery and its decade-spanning echoes are very much a part of the collective American heritage. Confederate denialism, in the form of states’ rights advocacy, permits sentimentalists to keep their questionable imagery without having to address its unsavory associations.
Just how pervasive are these Confederate mythologies? An informal survey conducted in 2011 by James W. Loewen, published by the Southern Poverty Law Center, found that 55% to 75% of American teachers—“regardless of region or race”—cite states’ rights as the chief reason for Southern secession. This attitude is also reflected in a Pew Research Center poll from that same year, which found that nearly half (48%) of all Americans agreed: the Civil War was fought over states’ rights. Only 38% of those surveyed attribute the conflict to slavery.
So-called states’ rights
No one seems to be able to agree on which specific Southern rights were in danger, but that’s really beside the point. The fact is, Southern states seceded in spite of states’ rights, and the Confederacy’s founding documents offer plenty of proof.
In its constitution, Confederate leaders explicitly provided for the federal protection of slaveholding:
It’s a provision that clashes jarringly with neo-Confederate mythos—how could the South secede to preserve states’ rights if its own constitution mandated legal, federally protected slavery across state borders?
South Carolina was the first state to secede from the Union. On Dec. 24, 1860, its government issued a “Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union.” In it, South Carolinian leaders aired objections to laws in Northern states—specifically, those that sprung from the case of Prigg v. Pennsylvania (1842), in which the US Supreme Court ruled that state authorities could not be forced to help return fugitive slaves to the South. Ensuing individual state legislation in New England would double down on that very ruling, expressly forbidding state officials from enforcing the federal Fugitive Slave Acts, or the use of state jails to detain fugitive slaves.
In effect, South Carolina seceded because the federal government would not overturn abolitionist policies in Northern states. South Carolina seceded because the federal government would not violate a state’s right to abstain from slavery and its concomitant policies.
Taxes and tariffs
Another strain of Confederate apologia asserts secession inspired by high taxes, in the form of heavy tariffs. Once again, the neo-Confederates are wrong, and South Carolinian history proves it. The state first raised the threat of secession in 1831 and 1833, events known collectively as the Nullification Crisis. South Carolina declared the federal tariffs of 1828 and 1832 unconstitutional, and therefore null within state borders. No other state government backed the move, president Jackson threatened force, and South Carolina abandoned the idea.
No matter! A Virginian slaveholder wrote a new tariff in 1857, which was passed and generally well-received by Southern members of Congress as it stipulated a record-low rate. Thus, at the time of war, Southerners had no real reason to complain (with regards to tariffs): a plantation owner in Louisiana could export his cotton to Europe at the lowest tariff rate instituted since 1816.
Counting states, taking sides
It isn’t entirely inaccurate, however, to say that the war was fought over money. Most human conflicts are, in some way. In this case, the money issue centered around potential losses Southern titans of agribusiness would experience if slavery was abolished at the federal level. Federally mandated emancipation would require a majority of free states in the US Senate—something Southern lawmakers fought tooth-and-nail to impede.
As a result, the number of free and slave-states was kept equal until 1846, when the count reached 15 and 14, respectively. This imbalance exacerbated tensions between North and South significantly, reducing Southern leaders to a culture of extreme paranoia. Secession, in this sense, was very much a preemptive move.
The Southern aristocracy feared the impending election of Abraham Lincoln would ultimately bring about nationwide emancipation. He and his supporters were known, after all, as “black Republicans,” a term purposefully designed to conjure an image of radical abolitionism."
Source
Facts..you don't have them. All you have is emotion, ignorance and romanticism.
One correction for the OP:
The civil war was not fought to end slavery.
Period.
It was all about States Rights, and MONEY.
Later on slavery because a central issue as Lincoln and others worked it, but it was not the central reason for the start of the civil war.
It was only a contributing factor in the start of the war.
The civil war was not fought to end slavery.
Period.
It was all about States Rights, and MONEY.
Later on slavery because a central issue as Lincoln and others worked it, but it was not the central reason for the start of the civil war.
It was only a contributing factor in the start of the war.
2 important dates:
April 12, 1861
January 1, 1863
This is a clue ^^^.
R
April 12, 1861
January 1, 1863
This is a clue ^^^.
R
I think it's amusing people try to boil down a multifactoral, complex and nuanced issue that took the lives of over 600,000 men into one overly simplified issue.
Worse yet is when people try to apply the social and moral standards of today on to people of the past, "tweaking" history to fit some current virtue signaling narrative.
I'm an immigrant, and even I'm not daft enough to think the civil war was fought over a single issue.
Worse yet is when people try to apply the social and moral standards of today on to people of the past, "tweaking" history to fit some current virtue signaling narrative.
I'm an immigrant, and even I'm not daft enough to think the civil war was fought over a single issue.
Well, the good news is that the United States of America kicked the CSA's ass and all this romanticizing, pining, weeping, crying and lamenting over the grand old "Lost Cause" is just the stuff people on gun forum's do who just can't get over it, won't do anything about it, and have nothing better to do.
But it is a constant source of amusement and entertainment.
Like watching all the "principled" rednecks fly their rebel flags so boldly and then dutifully put them away so they could watch people drive cars around a track, always turning to the left.
But it is a constant source of amusement and entertainment.
Like watching all the "principled" rednecks fly their rebel flags so boldly and then dutifully put them away so they could watch people drive cars around a track, always turning to the left.
Just stop. No one here is going to argue with you, so you can beat off in your mother's basement.
There are plenty of facts. They aren't mine, the research is out there. You are just like the rest of the SJWs, lazy and without substance.
You can make anything of history that you like.
You know, there are folks that think we intended to liberate the Jews from concentration camps during WW2? That is what we were over there for right?
Listen. Dont bore me. I've been reading troll shit for 20 years now from people like you. I'm sure the third thing ever posted on the very first internet forum was "Boo Confederate flag".
Emotion? Indeed. Every time I hear the Star Spangled Banner, i get choked up. Same when i hear Dixie.
Now. Go fuck yourself with a pork shank.
You’re a retard @LucasTNT. You want your dystopian view that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is some racist klansman to be true so much you will bend and twist reality to conform to it. You begin with moral absolutism and shift back and forth in the false belief that your view are unassailable. They aren’t. They’re based on false premises and lies that are easily destroyed.
You are a mirror image of everything you say you hate, which is why you’re either on your knees, of spouting hatred for anyone who You perceive isn’t as woke as you are. The war was more than 150 years ago. 8 generations removed from slavery you are still trying to define black people through that lens, and resist anyone moving on when it is your own leftists who are responsible for everything.
Division and strife is your goal not just because you hate America, but because you are a misanthrope at your core.
www.tabletmag.com
You would do well to break out of your stupor and understand that the wages of slavery were paid in full as of 1865. Whatever he was, and whatever mistakes he made, Lincoln understood what happens when you can’t move on and can’t get past a conflict. You end up with Palestinians and broken culture, which seems to be your goal. You should read more, and type less, and not just the writings of leftist radicals and communists that support your twisted worldview.
Fellow-Countrymen:
At this second appearing to take the oath of the Presidential office there is less occasion for an extended address than there was at the first. Then a statement somewhat in detail of a course to be pursued seemed fitting and proper. Now, at the expiration of four years, during which public declarations have been constantly called forth on every point and phase of this great conflict which is of primary concern to the nation as a whole, little that is new could be presented. The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as well known to the public as to myself, and it is, I trust, reasonably satisfactory and encouraging to all. With high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured.
On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil war. All dreaded it, all sought to avert it. While the inaugural address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, insurgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without war—seeking to dissolve the Union and divide effects by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And the war came.
One-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."
With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.
—Abraham Lincoln
How different your goals are from Lincoln’s. I almost hope you get everything you want, because it will eat you long before good men put an end to it.
You are a mirror image of everything you say you hate, which is why you’re either on your knees, of spouting hatred for anyone who You perceive isn’t as woke as you are. The war was more than 150 years ago. 8 generations removed from slavery you are still trying to define black people through that lens, and resist anyone moving on when it is your own leftists who are responsible for everything.
Division and strife is your goal not just because you hate America, but because you are a misanthrope at your core.
The New Truth
When the moral imperative trumps the rational evidence, there’s no arguing
You would do well to break out of your stupor and understand that the wages of slavery were paid in full as of 1865. Whatever he was, and whatever mistakes he made, Lincoln understood what happens when you can’t move on and can’t get past a conflict. You end up with Palestinians and broken culture, which seems to be your goal. You should read more, and type less, and not just the writings of leftist radicals and communists that support your twisted worldview.
Fellow-Countrymen:
At this second appearing to take the oath of the Presidential office there is less occasion for an extended address than there was at the first. Then a statement somewhat in detail of a course to be pursued seemed fitting and proper. Now, at the expiration of four years, during which public declarations have been constantly called forth on every point and phase of this great conflict which is of primary concern to the nation as a whole, little that is new could be presented. The progress of our arms, upon which all else chiefly depends, is as well known to the public as to myself, and it is, I trust, reasonably satisfactory and encouraging to all. With high hope for the future, no prediction in regard to it is ventured.
On the occasion corresponding to this four years ago all thoughts were anxiously directed to an impending civil war. All dreaded it, all sought to avert it. While the inaugural address was being delivered from this place, devoted altogether to saving the Union without war, insurgent agents were in the city seeking to destroy it without war—seeking to dissolve the Union and divide effects by negotiation. Both parties deprecated war, but one of them would make war rather than let the nation survive, and the other would accept war rather than let it perish. And the war came.
One-eighth of the whole population were colored slaves, not distributed generally over the Union, but localized in the southern part of it. These slaves constituted a peculiar and powerful interest. All knew that this interest was somehow the cause of the war. To strengthen, perpetuate, and extend this interest was the object for which the insurgents would rend the Union even by war, while the Government claimed no right to do more than to restrict the territorial enlargement of it. Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes. "Woe unto the world because of offenses; for it must needs be that offenses come, but woe to that man by whom the offense cometh." If we shall suppose that American slavery is one of those offenses which, in the providence of God, must needs come, but which, having continued through His appointed time, He now wills to remove, and that He gives to both North and South this terrible war as the woe due to those by whom the offense came, shall we discern therein any departure from those divine attributes which the believers in a living God always ascribe to Him? Fondly do we hope, fervently do we pray, that this mighty scourge of war may speedily pass away. Yet, if God wills that it continue until all the wealth piled by the bondsman's two hundred and fifty years of unrequited toil shall be sunk, and until every drop of blood drawn with the lash shall be paid by another drawn with the sword, as was said three thousand years ago, so still it must be said "the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether."
With malice toward none, with charity for all, with firmness in the right as God gives us to see the right, let us strive on to finish the work we are in, to bind up the nation's wounds, to care for him who shall have borne the battle and for his widow and his orphan, to do all which may achieve and cherish a just and lasting peace among ourselves and with all nations.
—Abraham Lincoln
How different your goals are from Lincoln’s. I almost hope you get everything you want, because it will eat you long before good men put an end to it.
Well, the good news is that the United States of America kicked the CSA's ass and all this romanticizing, pining, weeping, crying and lamenting over the grand old "Lost Cause" is just the stuff people on gun forum's do who just can't get over it, won't do anything about it, and have nothing better to do.
But it is a constant source of amusement and entertainment.
Like watching all the "principled" rednecks fly their rebel flags so boldly and then dutifully put them away so they could watch people drive cars around a track, always turning to the left.
Funny, I don't see anyone romanticizing the Confederates at all in this thread.
Just people calling out the dumb bullshit such as those saying a war was fought over a single issue. That's ridiculous, and I doubt there's very many, if a single war, that was fought over a single issue. It's pretty evident that there was many differences and grievances between the North and the South, for years leading up to the war.
Some people like to make complex nuanced situations dumbed down, for whatever reasons. Perhaps it's because they don't understand what really happened, maybe because if they dumb it down enough they can spin it to fit some stupid current social justice virtue signaling, or maybe just to troll others because they have a unrewarding boring life.
I think most people are laughing at you, myself included.
You got me, that single anecdotal piece of evidence has completely changed my mind, the civil war was fought just over slavery
You're really going to shit when you consider a version of this flag was flown before
the civil war.
Slavery was north and south east and west...
R
the civil war.
Slavery was north and south east and west...
R
Seems like you have an unhealthy fixation on the Confederate flag. Or, Chihuahua shit, dunno which.
I was going to start the Bancat Countdown Schtick, but I think I'd rather see you stick around for a while. I have a lot of popcorn.
Only 60 posts to go!
Go! Go! Go!
加 油 好 朋 友 !
加 油 好 朋 友!
加 油 好 朋 友!
加 油 好 朋 友!
加 油!
加 油!
加 油!
加 油!
加 油!
加 油!
加 油!
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I really hope this means "Come on!" and not what Google translate says it might also mean. 'Cause I might have some questions.
It does mean "come on". More specifically, it means "step on the gas!" (JA YOU) Used by fans in all Chinese sporting events in unison to cheer for their teams...
Oh good, because Google suggested it also means "Lubricate!"
JA means "add".
And YOU means "oil".
So it can mean "lubricate". If a locomotive overhaul shop foreman tells an employee to "JA YOU" while pointing at the road wheels of a CHR-DF11, he means to lubricate the drive mechanism. If two riders in a car are at a stoplight, the light turns green, and the passenger tells the driver "JA YOU", it means to step on it...
That's the Chinese language for ya'...
Yep. Part of why I did not even want to try learning Mandarin in college. xDJA means "add".
And YOU means "oil".
So it can mean "lubricate". If a locomotive overhaul shop foreman tells an employee to "JA YOU" while pointing at the road wheels of a CHR-DF11, he means to lubricate the drive mechanism. If two riders in a car are at a stoplight, the light turns green, and the passenger tells the driver "JA YOU", it means to step on it...
That's the Chinese language for ya'...
I've debated joining this pleasant conversation for a while, and finally said "what the hell" as I share a different family history and perspective.
My traceable relatives on dad's side were Missouri Partisan Rangers. None owned slaves, historically we've been dirt poor in that part of the family. In fact, dad was the first to graduate high school.
Without writing a novel; I know that my ancestors joined after my great (3x) uncle was murdered by Jayhawker sympathizers (not uniformed soldiers). It wasn't uncommon along the border during the 1855-1863 era for stuff like that to happen to both sides. So the cousins all joined the guerilla groups as a form of both protection and revenge. They were pretty damn good at revenge too (see Lawrence and Centralia for examples).
I've got some great books on the region during that time, and spent many years researching as much as I could on that part of the war that is usually overlooked.
Surprisingly, none of my ancestor's units flew the Confederate flag that I know of. However the ones who survived never really trusted their government either after it was over, but that is oral family history. Eventually my family drifted into Oklahoma until my grandfather murdered a couple of police officers in Paul's Valley in 1947 (and was subsequently killed by the police three days later) and my grandmother took my dad and aunt to California afterwards (how I ended up back in Oklahoma is a mystery).
I digress; my family looks at the Confederate flag as a symbol of men who stood up to outside oppression (see James Lane's sacking of Osceola, Ewing's General Order 11, etc...). Men who fought for their families and land after they were invaded.
However the trend for hate groups is to misuse the symbol of the flag as a way to express hatred towards another race. I don't like it, but it's their misguided right. It happens, there's no denying that.
Therefore I unfortunately understand how many are offended by the Confederate flag, and I offer the courtesy of not waving it around in their face...simply because I can. I respect their right to not want to have to look at it. However every version of that flag is in my shop...because it means something different to me. Don't like it...well you wouldn't be invited over here anyway. Think I'm a traitor? I gave 21 years to the United States of America because I love this country...your argument is invalid. Want to come burn my flags? Only one way on here, and I'm gettin' awful tired.
My traceable relatives on dad's side were Missouri Partisan Rangers. None owned slaves, historically we've been dirt poor in that part of the family. In fact, dad was the first to graduate high school.
Without writing a novel; I know that my ancestors joined after my great (3x) uncle was murdered by Jayhawker sympathizers (not uniformed soldiers). It wasn't uncommon along the border during the 1855-1863 era for stuff like that to happen to both sides. So the cousins all joined the guerilla groups as a form of both protection and revenge. They were pretty damn good at revenge too (see Lawrence and Centralia for examples).
I've got some great books on the region during that time, and spent many years researching as much as I could on that part of the war that is usually overlooked.
Surprisingly, none of my ancestor's units flew the Confederate flag that I know of. However the ones who survived never really trusted their government either after it was over, but that is oral family history. Eventually my family drifted into Oklahoma until my grandfather murdered a couple of police officers in Paul's Valley in 1947 (and was subsequently killed by the police three days later) and my grandmother took my dad and aunt to California afterwards (how I ended up back in Oklahoma is a mystery).
I digress; my family looks at the Confederate flag as a symbol of men who stood up to outside oppression (see James Lane's sacking of Osceola, Ewing's General Order 11, etc...). Men who fought for their families and land after they were invaded.
However the trend for hate groups is to misuse the symbol of the flag as a way to express hatred towards another race. I don't like it, but it's their misguided right. It happens, there's no denying that.
Therefore I unfortunately understand how many are offended by the Confederate flag, and I offer the courtesy of not waving it around in their face...simply because I can. I respect their right to not want to have to look at it. However every version of that flag is in my shop...because it means something different to me. Don't like it...well you wouldn't be invited over here anyway. Think I'm a traitor? I gave 21 years to the United States of America because I love this country...your argument is invalid. Want to come burn my flags? Only one way on here, and I'm gettin' awful tired.
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Excuse me, fine gentlemen...
This here troll has already admitted growing up in the south, and he doesn’t get it. That means his parents couldn’t teach it to him. What in the world makes you think you can? You can’t teach those that will not learn.
By the way, has anyone seen my pork shank?
This here troll has already admitted growing up in the south, and he doesn’t get it. That means his parents couldn’t teach it to him. What in the world makes you think you can? You can’t teach those that will not learn.
By the way, has anyone seen my pork shank?
