22 Creedmoor

jakelly

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    Y'all sound like a bunch of Wildcat, Wildcat whores. :)

    I really do! Ironically, I have grown to hate case prep, (nearly as much long skinny powder columns, belts, short barrel eating necks, 75% case fills, rebarreling, and massive doses of recoil) which is why I love these wildcats. I am drinking the kool-aid! I've gone fan-boy! LOL
     

    turbo54

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    When you want to stop stirring the pot, let us know. You want to go in on the 500,000 piece order to get it made?

    I'm stirring the pot no more than you are; jumping into the thread as if the GAP propaganda minister. My questions and comments have been 100% objective.

    Speaking of objectivity, Hornady does not require a 500,000 piece order - at least according to what George told me about having special brass made while we chatted at the Grind. Hopefully he jumps in here to set us straight.
     

    KYS

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    I'm stirring the pot no more than you are; jumping into the thread as if the GAP propaganda minister. My questions and comments have been 100% objective.

    Speaking of objectivity, Hornady does not require a 500,000 piece order - at least according to what George told me about having special brass made while we chatted at the Grind. Hopefully he jumps in here to set us straight.

    "Jumping into the thread" ? Have you not read what has been posted? The caliber was created as a collaboration between myself, George, and Josh. I gave the parameters I wanted in a fast 223 type caliber and it just happened to work out like we intended.
    I ordered the barrels, George came up with the reamer and Josh delivered some extremely nice ammo. My posts have been 100% factual as I had the first rifle built and the first batch of ammo made.

    Had you taken notice at the Grind.... I was there shooting this caliber on the different ranges. I am not here trying to fire up an internet pissing contest. My information comes from daily application of the cartridge.
    What is special about having brass made? Nothing, if you can afford to foot the bill for it. But you take a huge risk in the investment, especially if it wont take off then you are left with 50k cases to use up or sell.

    GAP hit a home run with the 6mm Creedmoor, now the 6.5 SAUM. I hope one day this 22 Creedmoor takes off and gains popularity with varmint hunters and long range shooting.
     

    Early Cuyler

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    Dagum I hate this site. Just started getting the pieces together for a 6CM and now I gotta work on getting a 224 barrel for this as a DTA Conversion? I'm about to have to start skipping meals of Ramen to pay for it all... But the round sounds awesome!
     

    knockemdown

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    What is the internal volume of the .22Creed?
    Would like to see how it'd compare to a straight .22-243, and what, if any, advantage the .22Creed might have over it?
    22-243:
    Straight neck down & shoot
    Plentiful brass everywhere, Lapua included
    Slick feeding case design, runs like butter
    Throttle up a 75 to 3600+
    Or, ease back and enjoy your barrel longer (as if wildcatters ever do this?)

    I'm all for a better mousetrap, and dig wildcatting & pushing envelopes, but there's gotta be something markedly different about the cartridge to warrant the effort. If the .22Creed proves to have amazingly long barrel life, couldn't that simply be attributed to netting less performance from less powder burn? Even eeking 1K rounds out of a hotrod .224" tube is a heckuvalotta coyote pelts, from a .22-243, 22-250AI, Middlested, 22-6, etc. So where does the .22Creed 'fit' and how is it a better mousetrap?

    Not arguing, for conversation...
     

    KYS

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    What is the internal volume of the .22Creed?
    Would like to see how it'd compare to a straight .22-243, and what, if any, advantage the .22Creed might have over it?
    22-243:
    Straight neck down & shoot
    Plentiful brass everywhere, Lapua included
    Slick feeding case design, runs like butter
    Throttle up a 75 to 3600+
    Or, ease back and enjoy your barrel longer (as if wildcatters ever do this?)

    I'm all for a better mousetrap, and dig wildcatting & pushing envelopes, but there's gotta be something markedly different about the cartridge to warrant the effort. If the .22Creed proves to have amazingly long barrel life, couldn't that simply be attributed to netting less performance from less powder burn? Even eeking 1K rounds out of a hotrod .224" tube is a heckuvalotta coyote pelts, from a .22-243, 22-250AI, Middlested, 22-6, etc. So where does the .22Creed 'fit' and how is it a better mousetrap?

    Not arguing, for conversation...

    The neck down from 6mm to .224 is pretty straight forward. Josh anneals the brass then does a 3 step process on his hydraulic press. Its quick and efficient, also puts less strain on the brass.
    Brass from Hornady is easy to get, just a quick phone call and you have about as much as you want. Being that it also feeds another caliber of mine, I really like that. I can order 4k pieces and split between the two calibers.
    I have not had one hang up or misfeed with this cailber. It runs just as smooth and quick as anything else.
    As I said, I run it on the mild side. I was hitting 3540 (with a little deviation) with the 75gr AMAX. But we did not want to go much beyond that because we were not sure how it would hold together at higher speeds. Probably would go to a different bullet at that point. We will be testing other bullet combos and Im sure a 62gr will do over 3600 fps with great performance.

    I see where you are coming from because I initially wanted a 22-243. Under the advice of George and Josh we wanted to try something different and see how it panned out. Well, it worked to all our satisfaction and I enjoy the rifle/caliber a lot!
    I was shooting it this past weekend and its just fun to shoot. Having that much speed and low recoil is very handy.

    As far as barrel life, we will see where it ends up. As of yesterday I am just under 1300. I did a mild cleaning and everything looks to be still really healthy. Groups are still really tight @ 100 and 200 yards. :D
     
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    Papagallos

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    The neck down from 6mm to .224 is pretty straight forward. Josh anneals the brass then does a 3 step process on his hydraulic press. Its quick and efficient, also puts less strain on the brass.
    Brass from Hornady is easy to get, just a quick phone call and you have about as much as you want. Being that it also feeds another caliber of mine, I really like that. I can order 4k pieces and split between the two calibers.
    I have not had one hang up or misfeed with this cailber. It runs just as smooth and quick as anything else.
    As I said, I run it on the mild side. I was hitting 3540 (with a little deviation) with the 75gr AMAX. But we did not want to go much beyond that because we were not sure how it would hold together at higher speeds. Probably would go to a different bullet at that point. We will be testing other bullet combos and Im sure a 62gr will do over 3600 fps with great performance.

    I see where you are coming from because I initially wanted a 22-243. Under the advice of George and Josh we wanted to try something different and see how it panned out. Well, it worked to all our satisfaction and I enjoy the rifle/caliber a lot!
    I was shooting it this past weekend and its just fun to shoot. Having that much speed and low recoil is very handy.

    As far as barrel life, we will see where it ends up. As of yesterday I am just under 1300. I did a mild cleaning and everything looks to be still really healthy. Groups are still really tight @ 100 and 200 yards. :D


    This would be interesting in an AR setup.
     

    cjgemm

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    Hodgdon Hybrid 100v

    Thanks, Not in my quickload, might have to email to see if an update is available. From Hodgdon's website, it looks like it might work well in the 6.5 Creedmoor as well. Definitely will be keeping an eye on this cartridge.

    edit:

    Never mind, found it. duh.
     
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    long range newbie

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    As far as barrel life, we will see where it ends up. As of yesterday I am just under 1300. I did a mild cleaning and everything looks to be still really healthy. Groups are still really tight @ 100 and 200 yards. :D

    Hit 1700-1800rnds and my next build is a 22creedmoor.
     
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    Lofty

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    I'm not getting all the hate?

    If you don't like it, don't buy or build one....seems simple to me.

    I for one am glad that people like KYS have enough disposable income to delve into new areas and push load development with new cartridge designs. For a guy like me that hates brass prep and fire forming, it's nice when George gets behind a caliber and pushes a manufacturer to make dies and brass for these new cartridges.

    I know George well enough and respect his integrity and knowledge enough to trust him at his word as well. If George told me eating Lima Beans would get me an extra 1000 rounds of barrel life, I'd eat Lima Beans.


    If I don't like something or think its pointless though.....I'd rather just bow out of the conversation than try to muck up someone else's good time.


    If it wasn't for the speed limits at most matches this sounds like a great match caliber. Fast and flat is accurate in my book.
     

    moore_man

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    had Dave at PTG make me up a finish reamer and a full length die reamer as well and started building :)
    22 creed.jpg

    .22 on the left with a 90gn and the 6.5 on the right with the berger 130

    currently building a bolt gun and the AR is right behind it. Looking forward to seeing the results myself
     
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    KYS

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    I'm not getting all the hate?

    If you don't like it, don't buy or build one....seems simple to me.

    I for one am glad that people like KYS have enough disposable income to delve into new areas and push load development with new cartridge designs. For a guy like me that hates brass prep and fire forming, it's nice when George gets behind a caliber and pushes a manufacturer to make dies and brass for these new cartridges.

    I know George well enough and respect his integrity and knowledge enough to trust him at his word as well. If George told me eating Lima Beans would get me an extra 1000 rounds of barrel life, I'd eat Lima Beans.


    If I don't like something or think its pointless though.....I'd rather just bow out of the conversation than try to muck up someone else's good time.


    If it wasn't for the speed limits at most matches this sounds like a great match caliber. Fast and flat is accurate in my book.

    People don't like change. They just lock up when something new comes out because it's unfamiliar or they can't afford to have it at that moment. But then again, when you help get something off the ground it feels like its yours. We went thru a lot of brain storming before this came about. I can't help defend it because I see what it is capable of.
    George is a friend, it's a bonus that he can build my rifles for me as well. That has nothing to do with the technology thats right in front of us. This caliber is awesome and I am proud to have been a part of its development.

    Hit 1700-1800rnds and my next build is a 22creedmoor.

    Start getting your parts together….. I have great confidence this is a 2500-3000 rd gun.
     

    knockemdown

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    I'm not getting all the hate?

    If you don't like it, don't buy or build one....seems simple to me.
    If that was directed at me, there is no hate. Just trying to get a better idea of where this new cartridge might fit in with already known wildcats.
    Pretty difficult to like/dislike anything without enough information to make a decision, hence the questions. I have a .22-243 and built it for a very specific reason. Some friends have had .22-243s and are switching back to straight .22-250s. When asked, reasons were simply because Lapua brass became available and they'd not miss a few hundred FPS for the powder saved. Point being, I'd not have known that if I never asked...

    More power to KYS, or anyone for exploring new shit, I'm all for it! I own GAP rifles, and building a 6.5 4s right now, so consider me a fan of GAP & innovation...

    Just wanted to make clear that my post wasn't about "hating", best of luck & keep us posted with updates!
     

    KYS

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    If that was directed at me, there is no hate. Just trying to get a better idea of where this new cartridge might fit in with already known wildcats.
    Pretty difficult to like/dislike anything without enough information to make a decision, hence the questions. I have a .22-243 and built it for a very specific reason. Some friends have had .22-243s and are switching back to straight .22-250s. When asked, reasons were simply because Lapua brass became available and they'd not miss a few hundred FPS for the powder saved. Point being, I'd not have known that if I never asked...

    More power to KYS, or anyone for exploring new shit, I'm all for it! I own GAP rifles, and building a 6.5 4s right now, so consider me a fan of GAP & innovation...

    Just wanted to make clear that my post wasn't about "hating", best of luck & keep us posted with updates!

    I'm pretty sure that was not directed at you [MENTION=11637]knockemdown[/MENTION].
     

    KYS

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    whats the brass life like? (estimated if you don't know)

    I hate to sound like a broken record..... we don't really know. Im not reloading the once fired brass until this barrel is toast. I want to have an EXACT count of rounds on each barrel.
    I would say this will get about the same loadings as a 6mm Creed or 243. It is quality brass so I am not worried about that part. :D
     

    rubicon06on33s

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    I currently shoot the Oly UMAR 22-250 ar15 and the idea of the 22 Creedmore in a GAP10 sounds like a home run. The biggest problem I have is the heat. After 5 rounds fired rapidly it is ready for a cool down, which is hard when the pdogs are dancing on the end of your barrel.
     

    toddconley

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    What if you loaded this round with 90 gr bergers and shot it from a 18 in gasser? How fast would it go? Has been done? Could it get to 3000?
     

    sobrbiker883

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    Merry Christmas KYS, hope you and yours are doing well!
    Wildcats are like independent research-22CM has been being worked up in this neck of the woods, for pretty much the same reasons (accurate coyote blower-upper that has better barrel life, along with better potential in semi's) for a while now.
    I'll be interested to see how it catches on, I too think bbl life will be easily double what a 22-250 is.
     

    KYS

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    22 Creedmoor

    Todd, we have a GAP10 coming online in a little while but it will have a 23" barrel. I really think you would be pushing the cartridge hard to make 90's run over 3k in a 18" barrel.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     
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    Forgetful Coyote

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    Sweet. Thanks for sharing sir. Do you think its possible to post some pics of the rifle and groups?

    Also, how big of difference in dirt kick-up when spotting shots is there between a .22 cal and 6mm? Is it noticeably easier to spot shots for 6mm or???

    And for anyone whose shot one, how do .22 or 6mm BR rounds feed through a mag?
     

    KYS

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    Sweet. Thanks for sharing sir. Do you think its possible to post some pics of the rifle and groups?

    Also, how big of difference in dirt kick-up when spotting shots is there between a .22 cal and 6mm? Is it noticeably easier to spot shots for 6mm or???

    And for anyone whose shot one, how do .22 or 6mm BR rounds feed through a mag?

    What rifle?
    I have posted some info in the thread I did....

    I shoot suppressed and it's no issue at all to spot all my shots. This is a lot less recoil then a 6mm anything.

    All of my rounds feed flawlessly thru my DBM. That is part of the reason Creedmoor brass was chosen for this project.


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
     

    JJones75

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    Interesting thread.
    I have been putting partsn together for a LR varmint gun for a while , gonna use a 1-8 5r barrel and was initially thinking about the 22-6.5x47L and running 75-80g pills. I like the idea of the 6.4x47L brass due to small rifle primer and great brass. I'm hoping for 3200fps from a 26" tube which shouldn't be near a hot load at all
    the 22 CM seems like a great Option as well
     

    steve123

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    Just in case someone was wondering about a overbore 20 cal vs 22 cal I'll put in my 2 cents.

    I built a 20x47L hoping to run the 55 grain Bergers(.381BC) at 3800+. I got the velocity but the bullets started coming apart. The 40 Vmax are working fine at a slow for the cartridge 4100 fps but the BC is only .28.

    Were I to build a longer range varmint barrel again it would be Edit "22" Creedmoore. Well once they get the loose primer pocket issue figured out anyway.

    22x47L would be awesome too. The brass is almost indestructible but there are two neckdowns from 6.5.

    If only 22-250 didn't have so much body taper!?!?
     
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    skeetlee

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    I like the idea very much. I wanted one 3 years ago when the 6.5 CM came out. I worry about a couple things, but I see no real reason not to build one in 22cal.

    Hornady brass isn't the best, and as it seems there are a lot of guys bitching about primer pockets getting loose. that's not good especially for wildcatting.
    Im sitting hear wondering if a Lapua 22-250 couldn't be used instead? Not sure it can , but I think its worth looking into.

    traditionally if one necks down a case as much as is needed for the 22CM, one would want to neck turn. That brass has to go somewhere, when necking down. Donuts may be an issue? If I could use Lapua 22-250 brass then there is no need to neck down or neck turn.


    I like the comment above. " If only the 22-250 didn't have so much body taper" Amen!! This 22CM really has my attention now. I think I might go about it a little differently though.
    Looks like I am going to have to make a new FL size die!! LOL!!
    I will also have to think about what free bore this case will need for the 75-80 grain bullets. .100 I am guessing? Good read. thanks for sharing! Lee
     

    Huckleberry75

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  • Interesting thread.
    I have been putting partsn together for a LR varmint gun for a while , gonna use a 1-8 5r barrel and was initially thinking about the 22-6.5x47L and running 75-80g pills. I like the idea of the 6.4x47L brass due to small rifle primer and great brass. I'm hoping for 3200fps from a 26" tube which shouldn't be near a hot load at all
    the 22 CM seems like a great Option as well

    A couple of the guys that I shoot with run the 22x47L with phenomenal results. They run 26"/#5/8tw bbls and strictly run the 80gn VLD's. They have tried 22BR, 224TTH (22/6mm), 22-243, 22-250 etc etc and they always come back to the 22x47L. They run 37.5-38.5gns of H4350 and get 3300fps with those slippery little 80 grainers. their reamer is a no turn reamer, so they just neck down and shoot'em, and brass is dang near bullet proof. The terminal results cannot be denied either. Coyotes are bang-flop DRT. These guys are old benchrest shooters, and plumb up their own, so swapping around calibers was pretty easy for them and they have been playing with it for 30yrs. 22x47L is in the works for me. New Defiance Deviant Hunter a/w action is due in June, everything else is already in the safe.
     

    BoilerUP

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    A couple of the guys that I shoot with run the 22x47L with phenomenal results. They run 26"/#5/8tw bbls and strictly run the 80gn VLD's. They have tried 22BR, 224TTH (22/6mm), 22-243, 22-250 etc etc and they always come back to the 22x47L. They run 37.5-38.5gns of H4350 and get 3300fps with those slippery little 80 grainers. their reamer is a no turn reamer, so they just neck down and shoot'em, and brass is dang near bullet proof.

    I'm curious to know typical barrel life with 80s @ 3300fps and 38 grains of powder behind it...
     

    Dallas4rceMarine

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    hey [MENTION=19671]KYS[/MENTION] and update on barrel life? I am interested in this caliber as I have an old rem 700 .308 action that needs a new job soon!